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My MGSV TGS Demo 1 impressions!

C

Cave Johnson

Member
Dahbomb said:
I hate when people use the excuse of "don't use it of you don't like it!"

Even if I don't like something, if it's the most effecient way to play the game then I would use it. If tagging is allowed then I will use it to gain an upperhand in the game. That's how games are played, no one wants to play around with self imposed limitations or handicaps.
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Totally agree with this sentiment. I'm sick and tired of apologists letting questionable (yet clearly targeted for a non-demographic) features then require the "core" gamers to man up and not use it. What's next? Try not to get power-ups in Mario because it's our "choice"?
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
wait so this is a thread for demo video impressions from one person?

or is this to combat the negative tone of the other thread.

We'll I guess I'll contribute by saying the demo left a bad impression for a lot of people ,even more so die-hard fans, and I think they have good reasons to be concerned (especially after MGS4).
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
Difference in lighting is huge. Also dof is better in the ps4 version:

4j2.gif
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
Dahbomb said:
I probably should clarify what I said.

If you are purposely ignoring features and mechanics in the game just to make it more fun or challenging that is a problem and more often than not a game is not well designed around it.

Of course I enjoy MGS games and don't think this will be a problem in MGSV... but I don't like this mentality of "don't like it don't use it" when such mechanics are how the game is balanced around as a whole. I mean look at what happened to the Auction House in Diablo 3.

And I have no problems imposing limitations on yourself after you have mastered a game... I am talking about imposing limits when you first play the game. I rather enjoy doing my knife/pistol only walkthrough in RE4 and my EI/FE only walkthrough in DMC1 but this is after I have explored all options and beaten the game on all difficulties many times.
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Agreed, it's not a very good excuse for what are clearly modern features. Really there's an argument to be made for this in every facet of gaming life - Kickstarters, Double Dipping and console exclusives - but I digress. If it's there we'll use and/or abuse it.

We're going to have to embrace what we're seeing because it's not going to change much (if at all) in the final release.
 
A

Akainu

Member
Batzi said:
2- When he throws the guard off that tower. It looked as if the whole process of approaching the guard was somehow fast forwarded and you see Big Boss throwing him over as if he had a very long arm or something. Again, most likely it will be fixed. PW did a better job and I am sure MGSV can pull this off again.
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If it's the same as in the playstation video. It looked like it went into a canned animation and the guard just snapped back a bit.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
Akainu said:
If it's the same as in the playstation video. It looked like it when into a canned animation and the guard just snapped back a bit.
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It did it's just the guard shouldn't be reachable, there's room to climb up and take him out inside the tower, which besides anything else is nicer as it doesn't leave a body on the floor.
 
P

PairOfFilthySocks

Member
Gonna count myself among those of us not impressed. Health regen, slow-mo fuck-up compensation mode, enemy tagging; no thank you. And no, don't tell me to just ignore this crap and expect me to take your input on gameplay seriously. When the designers create the environments, levels and challenges, they are taking into account all this idiot-proof bullshit. The game is balanced around those mechanics being taken into account. It sucks.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Dahbomb said:
I hate when people use the excuse of "don't use it of you don't like it!"

Even if I don't like something, if it's the most effecient way to play the game then I would use it. If tagging is allowed then I will use it to gain an upperhand in the game. That's how games are played, no one wants to play around with self imposed limitations or handicaps.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but I would have hated TLoU if I played on Normal with Listen mode on. Turning listen mode off is pretty much what I'll try to do with MGS5.

Also, lol, I thought the OP had actually played the game.
 
G

Graphics Horse

Member
PairOfFilthySocks said:
Gonna count myself among those of us not impressed. Health regen, slow-mo fuck-up compensation mode, enemy tagging; no thank you. And no, don't tell me to just ignore this crap and expect me to take your input on gameplay seriously. When the designers create the environments, levels and challenges, they are taking into account all this idiot-proof bullshit. The game is balanced around those mechanics being taken into account. It sucks.
Click to expand...

I don't know how do you balance games with multiple difficulty settings anyway? Extreme MGS1 has no radar and the guards see twice as far. MGS2 offered a mode that gives you a game over as soon as you're spotted. You can't balance all these options evenly because some are meant to be a lot harder than others. If the game can be completed at a hard difficulty without being seen, then 'normal' mode is always going to look dumbed down in comparison.
 
VlaudTheImpaler

VlaudTheImpaler

tl;dr
Dahbomb said:
I hate when people use the excuse of "don't use it of you don't like it!"

Even if I don't like something, if it's the most effecient way to play the game then I would use it. If tagging is allowed then I will use it to gain an upperhand in the game. That's how games are played, no one wants to play around with self imposed limitations or handicaps.
Click to expand...

Do you play all of your games on easy mode? I for one crank the difficulty level as far up as it will go.

Even outside of difficulty levels, in a game like Forza I tone down the driving assists/hadicaps quite a bit.
 
E

Epcott

Member
Looked fine IMO.

They've streamlined a lot of the actions and HUD and the stealth is still there. But honestly, I'm more interested in seeing TTP gameplay than GZ.

Speaking of which, has demo 2 been shown yet? Just checked, not yet :(
 
P

PairOfFilthySocks

Member
Graphics Horse said:
I don't know how do you balance games with multiple difficulty settings anyway? Extreme MGS1 has no radar and the guards see twice as far. MGS2 offered a mode that gives you a game over as soon as you're spotted. You can't balance all these options evenly because some are meant to be a lot harder than others. If the game can be completed at a hard difficulty without being seen, then 'normal' mode is always going to look dumbed down in comparison.
Click to expand...

Thing is, the absolute base level of difficulty(ie. normal, no game over on alert)in previous MGS games(1-3 at least) doesn't have ridiculous stuff like slow-mo and health regen. The difficulty makes minor but notable changes to the gameplay(less health, more enemies, game over alert) that encourage playing the game a certain way, and enforce that approach the higher you go. Start yanking out stuff, like they may be doing with the stuff in MGS5, and we start to get an unbalanced game.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
I just went off in the disappointing thread, this kind of mirrors my thoughts. The negative reactions are mind boggling, they make no sense at all.
 
T

The Goat

Member
The videos definitely don't do the game any favors. I could almost believe this was current-gen game. Guess I need to see it in person to really appreciate it.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
d0c_zaius said:
it's not and that's exactly the point. evil twins suck.

Miamiwesker, I'm kind of baffled that you think peoples concern's "make no sense at all".
Click to expand...

Why, everything shown in the demo is either an enhancement or an evolution of what has been in every MGS game from before. The only thing is the slow motion alert thing but I am sure it will be used in very key and interesting ways.

It is totally MGS, nothing else looks out of the ordinary. It is a MGS games with more gameplay options than ever before and that is a great thing.
 
C

Comfort Jones

Banned
Batzi said:
What's new about that again? It was present since MGS3. You take a hit and your health starts regenerating again without rations. The speed at which this regeneration occurs depends on the game difficulty. The lower the difficulty the faster your health regenerates. Again don't see how that is different from previous Metal Gear.
Click to expand...

MGS3 had very slow regen health that I thought was still fucking stupid, but on top of that, was never really all that useful to you during combat. The regen health we're talking about in MGS5 is CLEARLY far more similar to something like Call of Duty or Halo. I really wish people defending this shit would quit being so intellectually dishonest.

Metal Gear is a stealth game, if you can't figure out how regen health can kill the tension you're supposed to feel in a game like that then somehow I doubt you really appreciated the original titles.

Also good God I am so sick of this OH WELL THIS RETARDED FEATURE ISN'T PRESENT IN HARDER DIFFICULTIES defense. That doesn't somehow make it less awful, it just creates a really awkward gap between difficulties. If the game doesn't need it, why put it in there? For casuals? Is that what MGS is trying to become now, even more casual friendly? Playing on easy mode wasn't easy enough or something?
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
MiamiWesker said:
Why, everything shown in the demo is either an enhancement or an evolution of what has been in every MGS game from before. The only thing is the slow motion alert thing but I am sure it will be used in very key and interesting ways.

It is totally MGS, nothing else looks out of the ordinary. It is a MGS games with more gameplay options than ever before and that is a great thing.
Click to expand...

if you want to take your impressions/assumptions and smash them over everyone else sure.

there are plenty of valid concerns and questions being brought up by the demo, and I disagree with your statements as fact when you are going off of the same impressions as everyone else.

I get trying to counter the negative impression wave thats happening, but going completely on the other end doesn't really help convey anything other than defense force reflex.

The fact that you are "sure it will be used in very key and interesting ways" not only sounds like a preformed press release but doesn't attribute any possibility to it turning out shitty. It's almost as if you didn't play MGS4. Blind faith is a hell of a drug.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
d0c_zaius said:
if you want to take your impressions/assumptions and smash them over everyone else sure.

there are plenty of valid concerns and questions being brought up by the demo, and I disagree with your statements as fact when you are going off of the same impressions as everyone else.

I get trying to counter the negative impression wave thats happening, but going completely on the other end doesn't really help convey anything other than defense force reflex.

The fact that you are "sure it will be used in very key and interesting ways" not only sounds like a preformed press release but doesn't attribute any possibility to it turning out shitty. It's almost as if you didn't play MGS4. Blind faith is a hell of a drug.
Click to expand...

I played MGS4 and its one of the greatest games I have ever played.

I want a discussion, its just some of the complaints to me are so out there you have to be as out there just to get noticed.

So lets talk tagging. Complaints are it allows you to see where enemies are, after you go out of your way to actively tag them mind you, and you can see them through walls.

Whats this:

OR4XEGg.jpg


Oh damn you can see every enemy in the room, THROUGH WALLS. Not only that you can see exactly where they see and you it does this automatically with no way to turn it off in the normal game.

What else? Regenerating health, all MGS games have had some form of regen health though making it blood stain on the screen type of regen is going to suck. But Kojima said rations are still in so maybe we don't have the full picture yet. And where in that demo did the regen show itself, he never even got touched in that demo?
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
ok taking your example:

The immediate (without any research done) difference is that MGS Radar is a unique mechanic inherent and characteristic to MGS games, as much as the ! icon. You see that and can immediately identify what is is, why it is like that and what game it is from. It also stopped being used after 2 so it has little relevance to where MGS games are now. It was obviously designed to be an answer to a lack of camera movement so the player isn't cheaply sidebusted by enemies. That also doesn't really apply in the era of analog stick camera freedom.

Open world tagging has been common in multiple games now, and is a signature gameplay (some would call a crutch) mechanic of another game franchise, Far Cry. It's appears to be the same function and mechanic, with only the icons providing any difference. It eliminates a large amount of tension and skill and turns open world games into "delete tag simulations". It can very much be seen as a blanding (or westernizing) the very characteristics that make MGS feel special and unique.

Yes you can not use it. That doesn't take away people having the right to complain about it.

Now if you read that and still think "it makes no sense at all", then we don't need to continue this specific debate.
 
M

MiamiWesker

Member
d0c_zaius said:
ok taking your example:

It was obviously designed to be an answer to a lack of camera movement so the player isn't cheaply sidebusted by enemies. That also doesn't really apply in the era of analog stick camera freedom.
Click to expand...

This brings me to my next point, isn't the slow mo to avoid alert designed to be an answer for having enemies all around you where you can be totally caught off guard by some enemy you had no clue was around. Kojima himself said he added it cause the gameplay was not functioning well with such an open game. So if the radar was fine back in the day to correct a gameplay issue why is slow motion being so ridiculed when we have not even tried it in the games full open setting and when Kojima is including it cause he feels it is necessary, just like the radar of the older games.

d0c_zaius said:
It can very much be seen as a blanding (or westernizing) the very characteristics that make MGS feel special and unique.
Click to expand...

Say this game had the same radar MGS3 had would that be ok for you then? Is the issue really that it looks like another games mechanics? MGS games have always had ways to know where all your enemies are, through walls, across areas, whatever. It has been a key component to the series, just cause it looks like another game doesn't make it worse than the multiple ways you have had in every single MGS game to tell where enemies are even when out of sight. I would say this method is better cause you actually have to see the enemy first before tagging them, in older MGS games you can just hide behind walls and either see them in radar or sense them nearby without ever seeing that guard before.
 
M

MrDenny

Member
I still don't understand the tagging complaint.
Isn't it better if you don't see the enemies on the radar, don't want to tag, don't do it.
I don't get it, people want it to be more stealth like, but want the enemies to just appear on the radar?
Or are people just fixated on kojima going in the wrong direction and copying splinter cell.
 
B

Batzi

Banned
MrDenny said:
I still don't understand the tagging complaint.
Isn't it better if you don't see the enemies on the radar, don't want to tag, don't do it.
I don't get it, people want it to be more stealth like, but want the enemies to just appear on the radar?
Or are people just fixated on kojima going in the wrong direction and copying splinter cell.
Click to expand...
The bolded part. I think this "outrageous" reaction comes from the fact that a Metal Gear game borrowed something from Splinter Cell but those same raging fans forgot that Splinter Cell and other franchises were born because of Metal Gear so...
 
B

Batzi

Banned
rvy said:
Any confirmation on this, please?
Click to expand...

Ken Imaizumi confirmed it on his Twitter. Both gameplay presentations and Ground Zeroes trailer from PAX (English voices) will all be uploaded and be available on the official MGSV site. According to Ken, it's going to take a couple of days to put everything up.
 
R

rvy

Banned
Batzi said:
Ken Imaizumi confirmed it on his Twitter. Both gameplay presentations and Ground Zeroes trailer from PAX (English voices) will all be uploaded and be available on the official MGSV site. According to Ken, it's going to take a couple of days to put everything up.
Click to expand...

OK, cool. Thanks, can't wait to see this in glorious quality.
 
R

rvy

Banned
I hope this thing gets released later this year. Game looks superb. Animation is awesome, love the idea of sneaking into a base to rescue someone, new mechanics look fine.
 
F

Fezan

Member
Ocelott said:
No MGS has had Health Regen up til this point
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BruceLeeRoy said:
Wait are your impressions based on the same video all of us just watched or are you actually at TGS?



I must be nuts I can't remember there being a full health regen in any MGS. I'm not saying its a big deal but I certainly don't ever remember it.
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health regen was in both mgs3 & 4 .
in 3 it regenerates based on stamina and injury. In 4 you had psyche meter and movement which governed health regeneration
 
ebullientprism

ebullientprism

Member
Bailers said:
Thanks, always nice to hear from someone who's there their opinion of new games, especially running on new hardware.
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If by being there you mean watching the video on gamespot in their home then sure, he was there. :p

Apologies if you were actually at the TGS OP but reading it sounds like you just watched a video.
 
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