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[Love To Love You Baby]

Huckabee was really the only good one and he didn't win.

...

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Couple facts first, to set it up: I live in Mass (fairly liberal state!) and my parents have always been pretty anti-republican. In all honesty, my mom has really never shown any signs of racism or anything like that.

She told me how disappointed she was that Obama got the nomination over Hillary, her reasoning being that she just really doesn't like Obama. I asked why and the first reason she gave was that he "scares" her.

For a while, I tried to get a reason why but none of it made sense at all. She brought up the typical "lack of experience", saying some babble about him having 2 years of experience (which uh.. isn't true). The only other real reason she gave was that she wanted Hillary because of how "good the economy was" during Bill's time in office. (Which still doesn't give me an answer as to why he "scares" her, leading me to believe it's simply because he's black.)

But after a long conversation, I was left with literally nothing. No reasoning or anything.

Obama obviously has most of the youth vote locked up and I'm sure it will be an insane record turnout for him there, but is this going to be a very big problem for him? Adults who honestly don't know what they're talking about going out and voting for McCain (or not voting at all, in my mom's case) because, for whatever reason, they're "scared" Obama?

It just makes zero sense to me and I'm wondering if this may be the mindset of a lot of adults come November.

Well, my sis and me both like Hillary and Obama, but someone I know went from Hillary because of her gender to Obama because of his race. I lol'd.

I don't like how voting/supporting either one of them is considered sexist or racist.

So it is equally bad that Obama's doing like 90% of the black vote in places? Just wanna make sure you're even across the board here, since both sides are gonna be just as guilty of this come november.

Unfortunately this race boiled down to race/gender and old/new.

I think everyone has to put this in context Clinton DOMINATED the black vote early on in the primaries. Black folk were not coming out for him in any sort of numbers until after Oprah. The guy had a 0% chance early on. Blacks didn't think he was Black enough, they didn't think he had the experience, didn't think he could win against Clinton, they didn't think he could get anywhere with that name. I love the selective memory when it comes to Obama, just like every other vote that he got he earned it by being the better candidate. Oprah had more to do with Obama getting the Black vote in other states than him being black did.

What worked for Obama is that he never really focused on race and I don't think that was a pander issue but, probably as a bi-racial person he has learned from hard knocks to be dismissive and deflective on race related issues. That worked in his favor, even if every Black person in America voted for him it wouldn't do much.

FFR.

 

[lopaz]

I am black and therefore am expected to vote for Obama. But honestly, all the candidates suck. Huckabee was really the only good one and he didn't win. Seriously, ALL, and I mean ALL the candidates suck. Hell, if I have to vote, I am voting third party.

Huckabee makes a point of freeing rapists. How is that in any way good?

 

[captive]

See, I don't think anyone is really suggesting otherwise. Sensible people know McCain is a fucking retard, just like Bush.

Sensible people also know that America itself is filled with fucking retards.

Sensible people know that the fucking retards scream the most.

Sensible people know that those who scream the most get the ears.

It's kinda like "Fish is brain-food. People who eat fish have well-developed brains. People with well-developed brains don't eat fish." Only not as funny.

wow. Such tolerance from a liberal.

So anyone who votes for McCain is a fucking retard? I don't even know why I'm reading this thread anymore, so many "enlightened" people bitching and claiming that Obama is the only choice and anyone who disagrees is a racist moron, theres enlightenment for you.

Even through all this I have yet to actually see *why* Obama is the only sensible choice, as his fanatics claim. But everyone is just supposed to know this or they are ignorant.

As usual the candidates are eerily similar, yet people like to get on the side of one and anyone who disagrees is just stupid.

well... yeah.

You make an excellent point.

 

[lopaz]

So anyone who votes for McCain is a fucking retard? .

well... yeah.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

I wish the selfish baby boomer generation that fucked this all up for us would just cede power already.

To be fair, we're pretty selfish too. It's just that we have a slightly better idea of planning longterm because we've already started picking up the tab for them.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So anyone who votes for McCain is a fucking retard?

To me, it depends on the motivation. For those who consider themselves Democratic and were behind Hillary, to state with any seriousness that you would rather have McCain than Obama is pure ignorance. Their goals are too similar to have any reason to believe that this is the right thing to do other than being racist, or just being a terribly poor loser. So, the candidate you want didn't win, so the brilliant idea is to vote for the party that opposes your candidate of choice's view to get back at the guy who won a fair contest? This is petty and stupid.

If there's ideological differences for why you are for McCain and/or against Obama, then so long as there's basis to these beliefs, I'm more than happy to agree to disagree.

 

[Kusagari]

I am black and therefore am expected to vote for Obama. But honestly, all the candidates suck. Huckabee was really the only good one and he didn't win. Seriously, ALL, and I mean ALL the candidates suck. Hell, if I have to vote, I am voting third party.

So you want the constitution to be replaced with the Bible. I'm hoping you don't vote.

 

[WickedAngel]

You make an excellent point.

What points have to be made that McCain hasn't already made for us? He knows nothing of the economy (Which he has admitted to), he has no interest in universal health care, he believes our economy is healthy (Without taking the pounding that average Americans are absorbing into consideration), he has surrounded himself with lobbyists, and he has vowed to continue a war (That was started under false pretenses) that no victory can be had in.

He is also delusional (As we all saw in his rose-tinted recollection of his trips through Iraq and his substantiation of a positive economy based on the things he has "seen" during his trips across America).

How much more does one really need to make a decision that he is complete and utter poison for America?

 

[Odrion]

So anyone who votes for McCain is a fucking retard?

Yes?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

So anyone who votes for McCain is a fucking retard?

Yes?

Okay, you do realize that this sort of discourse is not in any way productive. If your hope is to attract more voters to Obama, please realize that calling everyone with an opposing viewpoint retarded is not going to help anything, and only increases divisiveness.

 

[Odrion]

Because Neogaf is the premier political battlefield, where our every word sends ripples throughout the campaign (or: the internet is serious business.) That is a more annoying argument than Mercury Fred telling us "you should be nice to us Hillary supporters quit making fun of her eeeeeeee." Don't pretend you are actually offended.

To answer omg rite: Obama knows that race is going to be a hurdle, and I have faith that he'll effectively overcome it like he has so far. The racists that can't be unrooted from their beliefs won't make that big of an impact in the end, and hopefully in eight years they can realize just how foolish their prejudice was.

 

[avatar299]

Yes?

You are the worst kind of supporter

 

[Sylar]

I like how not wanting to vote for a black president is racist.

 

[Drek]

I am black and therefore am expected to vote for Obama. But honestly, all the candidates suck. Huckabee was really the only good one and he didn't win. Seriously, ALL, and I mean ALL the candidates suck. Hell, if I have to vote, I am voting third party.

So you were for basically the only candidate in decades who outright intended to violate our constitution?

Separation of church and state would be crushed day one that Huckabee was in office. Bias isn't a strong enough word to describe how heavily he'd slant everything in favor of non-Catholic christian faiths.

I think McCain's speech in response to Obama clinching the nomination is very telling about the course this election will go. The status quo in the U.S. for a long time has been "incumbent or associate v. change candidate". McCain started trying to preach a distinction between change and "the right change". That won't sell because he's too much of a Bush associate so not only is his change message overridden by Obama's superior message, but it comes off as disingenuous.

He won the republican nod despite lesser funding and coming from behind by playing that change angle with the many disenfranchised and moderate republicans, but that won't hold up against Obama. For him to compete his campaign needs to change message quickly, but will they? Even if they do will they find the right message? The drawn out democratic primary may have fractured the party momentarily, but at the same time it has given Obama the chance to forge a powerful, clear, and unambiguous message that he can stick with and carry through into the main election. McCain's campaign has done nothing of the sort.

 

[Love To Love You Baby]

I like how not wanting to vote for a black president is racist.

Well, if you're not voting for him you don't want a black president, that would be racist...?

 

[Odrion]

So you were for basically the only candidate in decades who outright intended to violate our constitution?

Separation of church and state would be crushed day one that Huckabee was in office. Bias isn't a strong enough word to describe how heavily he'd slant everything in favor of non-Catholic christian faiths.

but he's so cuuuuute

You are the worst kind of supporter

Oh bullshit. If McCain wins, just about every Obama supporter on his board will scream in unison "FUCKING DUMBASS AMERICANS GOOD JOB." Hell, you'll hear people say that whenever McCain surpasses Obama in the polls. I'm just being preemptive.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

wow. Such tolerance from a liberal.

So anyone who votes for McCain is a fucking retard? I don't even know why I'm reading this thread anymore, so many "enlightened" people bitching and claiming that Obama is the only choice and anyone who disagrees is a racist moron, theres enlightenment for you.

Even through all this I have yet to actually see *why* Obama is the only sensible choice, as his fanatics claim. But everyone is just supposed to know this or they are ignorant.

As usual the candidates are eerily similar, yet people like to get on the side of one and anyone who disagrees is just stupid.

I'm not going to call anyone "racist" for not voting for Obama, though. As much as you might not want to believe it, I don't give a fuck whether Obama is black or white or whatever. I don't care that Hillary is a woman. And I don't care that McCain is old as fuck.

What I care about is where each of them stand on the important issues. Read through Obama's goals on his site. Sure a chunk of it is idealistic as hell and some of it has me scratching my head in a "How the hell is he gonna do that" kind of way.

But you know what? I actually love that I'm scratching my head for some of it, because it only further illustrates how badly things have been fucked-up over the past 8 years...because the past 8 years have made me THAT jaded and cynical...because the past 8 years have been THAT terrible to where I have trouble believing there's any hope of fixing things.

Want to know why I support Obama? Or why I started supporting him months ago? Because he's abso-fucking-lutely correct when he talks about how Americans are totally disillusioned with their leaders for nearly a decade now. From our Representatives all the way up to the White House, they've all SUCKED. And that suckage is the Legacy of our Lame-Duck President, the man who ignored clear warning signs of economic hell, the man who couldn't wrap his head around anything but Yee-HAW "diplomacy" and so on and so forth. And no, that's not an exaggeration.

What's even more troubling is that John McCain, who USED TO BE WORTHWHILE in 2000, has become one of the worst Republican hack-jobs I've ever seen. He parrots nearly everything Bush has said in the past year. Other people have provided quotes and sources for that...I suggest you check them out. Hell, I still can't believe he actually went along with Bush on that "Appeasing the Nazis" rubbish.

So quite frankly, when the race comes down to McCain or Obama, if anyone wants this nation to actually survive the next 4 or 8 years, the blatantly obvious choice is Obama, because his talking points are at least rational ideas, which only seem foolishly idealistic because the PAST 8 years have been political, social, economic, and international hell thanks to Bush and his mind-bogglingly idiotic policies.

 

[Sylar]

Well, if you're not voting for him you don't want a black president, that would be racist...?

My point is people paint white people not wanting a black president racist, yet the amount of black people who don't vote for white candidates because their white aren't racist.

 

[Master Z]

I like how not wanting to vote for a black president is racist.

If your reason for not voting for him is because he's black, how is that NOT racist?

 

[Odrion]

My point is people paint white people not wanting a black president racist, yet the amount of black people who don't vote for white candidates because their white aren't racist.

I never heard anyone say that is not racist.

 

[scorcho]

My point is people paint white people not wanting a black president racist, yet the amount of black people who don't vote for white candidates because their white aren't racist.

then these mythical black people must not vote at all. ever.

 

[Hellsing321]

My point is people paint white people not wanting a black president racist, yet the amount of black people who don't vote for white candidates because their white aren't racist.

The amount of blacks who don't vote for a white male candidate in a presidential election is pretty small since thats the only option they've ever had.

 

[Sylar]

I didnt say for a white male in a presidential election, I said a election.

 

[vas_a_morir]

then these mythical black people must not vote at all. ever.

EXACTLY. Now you're talking that good ole' boy talk!

 

[scorcho]

ah, Sylar's post is put into context by the subtle racial overtones of this thread

carry on.

 

[avatar299]

Oh bullshit. If McCain wins, just about every Obama supporter on his board will scream in unison "FUCKING DUMBASS AMERICANS GOOD JOB." Hell, you'll hear people say that whenever McCain surpasses Obama in the polls. I'm just being preemptive.

I didn't say you were alone

 

[Gallagher]

I really like Obama and in my opinion, a man like him is something that america needs now. Because the fucking stuff about Black = bad is really disgusting

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Your boss is a moron. Want to know what will happen if McCain wins and the Dems control Congress? Well, we've had it for the past 2 years, and all we've had is gridlock getting in the way of the wishes of the people.

Kind of like how the Democrats promised to get us out of Iraq and have passed funding to keep us there every year since? Don't you know politicians lie? Yes that includes Obama. He is a smooth talker that is all. I won't vote for him, but I would be impressed if he gets us out of Iraq. I don't think it will happen. I think McCain is right (I'm not voting for him either) in that we'll be there for 100 years. All you need to do is look at Germany, Japan, South Korea and the many other countries the U.S. has military operations in to see the real goal. 99% of the politicians don't care about you, and they will continue to do what they do as long as we're dumb enough to re-elect them. The newly elected Congress and Senate haven't done a damn thing except put on a show. The fact that people can't see these stunts and are following the Democrats like they are the Messiah boggles me.

 

[shibby]

I'm kind of surprised by the number of people who have to fight with their families about this stuff. Since it's all anecdotal, I'll throw one in for the other side.

My (white) family's Super Tuesday primary votes in Missouri (!)
Me: Obama
Wife: Obama
Sister: Obama
Brother In-law: Obama
Mom: Obama
Dad: Obama
90 year old Grandmother: Obama

I'm really glad that I don't have to deal with any Hillary dead-enders at the dinner table.

I would hate to be in that position. Having different opinions around you and being able to debate them refines intelligence in this area. Why on Earth would you be upset about someone not voting the same way in your family?

 

[Kintaco]

Everyone expecting a "sure thing" victory by Obama might be surprised.

 

[eznark]

Everyone expecting a "sure thing" victory by Obama might be surprised.

It will certainly be a fight, but I think McCain is likely to win. I think both candidates are terrible for America. McCain probably kills any inroads made by the Chicago School and Friedman while Obama will be a Carterian disaster.

My primary vote went to Hillary for the sole reason that I wanted the Democrat party to drag the fight out and Fred Thompson (best of a very shitty bunch and Ron Paul was a bit of a racist) was already out for the GOP. I'll be voting similarly to the primary, for the entertainment value.

Therefore I'll be voting McCain because I want the internets (especially GAF and DU) to explode. It will be hilarious.

I would hate to be in that position. Having different opinions around you and being able to debate them refines intelligence in this area. Why on Earth would you be upset about someone not voting the same way in your family?

I completely agree.

 

[WickedAngel]

I would hate to be in that position. Having different opinions around you and being able to debate them refines intelligence in this area. Why on Earth would you be upset about someone not voting the same way in your family?

There is nothing intelligent about the vast majority of the "arguments" that the general population have against Obama.

 

[Odrion]

I didn't say you were alone

Alright, you are the only decent Obama supporter in this world. You cute little self righteous "independents are the only good people" you.

and eznark just set the benchmark for "worst supporter" two posts above me while providing evidence for "people that vote for McCain are retarded"

 

[eznark]

There is nothing intelligent about the vast majority of the "arguments" that the general population have against Obama.

so your honest belief is that Obama is 100% correct on every issue he has ever dealt with, and any deviation from those positions is tantamount to idiocy?

and eznark just set the benchmark for "worst supporter" two posts above me while providing evidence for "people that vote for McCain are retarded"

I think both options are shit but I pay too close attention to not vote, therefore I had to pick some reason. Of course, this is open to change with every utterance of these two chuckle heads. It's fully possible McCain will do something to sway me to Obama or vice versa....but it likely won't be policy related at this point.

 

[WickedAngel]

so your honest belief is that Obama is 100% correct on every issue he has ever dealt with, and any deviation from those positions is tantamount to idiocy?

No, actually.

How about you go back, read that again, and find the post where I ever made such a statement. This isn't about debate or disagreement. This is about the masses who think Obama is a Muslim and the new leader of the Black Panthers. This is about people who think we are winning in Iraq and that there is a victory to be had there. This is about people who believe the United States should be a theocracy without actually giving it that title.

It isn't possible to rationalize, reason, or educate people who think like this; the only hope is that they die swiftly without damaging the nation too much more than they already have.

 

[Odrion]

No, actually.

How about you go back, read that again, and find the post where I ever made such a statement. This isn't about debate or disagreement. This is about the masses who think Obama is a Muslim and the new leader of the Black Panthers.

You are arguing against a guy whose motivation for involvement in politics is to provide himself with lols on the internet.

 

[eznark]

No, actually.

How about you go back, read that again, and find the post where I ever made such a statement. This isn't about debate or disagreement. This is about the masses who think Obama is a Muslim and the new leader of the Black Panthers.

I fully missed the "vast majority" part, I read it as nothing intelligent about the arguments about Obama.

You are arguing against a guy whose motivation for involvement in politics is to provide himself with lols on the internet.

That is hardly true. One presidential election does not encompass an individuals entires political involvement. My decision to back Thompson was based wholly on his logical approach to the important economic issues facing my generation (I'm 26). However, once it's down to McCain and Obama I can no longer find things to like, but I have to make a decision somehow, right?

 

[shibby]

There is nothing intelligent about the vast majority of the "arguments" that the general population have against Obama.

Wtf kind of reasoning is this? There is plenty of stupidity when it comes to arguments for any candidate, pro or con. You don't think Obama's camp has been paying attention to the "arguments" against him?

Not when it comes to family, dude.

I disagree, because often times family will be the most honest with you. The whole I'm so happy because my entire family thinks the same way I do is weird, as if people are afraid that hearing a dissenting voice is blasphemous. I remember hearing a lot of the same kind of talk in my town about Bush back when he was running for the first time.

I'm happy that most of my relatives think differently, its forced me to learn more about politics rather than stay "enlightened" on a superficial level.

 

[WickedAngel]

Wtf kind of reasoning is this? There is plenty of stupidity when it comes to arguments for any candidate, pro or con. You don't think Obama's camp has been paying attention to the "arguments" against him?

What in the fuck are you even talking about? There is no reasoning there; it was a factual observation about the absurd "scandals" that have been circulated by the media.

Name one faux scandal for either of the other candidates that was half as absurd as the "Is Obama a Muslim?!?!" fear mongering that went on. Aside from the absurdity of the media hype, we have certifiable evidence of racism in regards to decisions made in voting (Based on exit polling in which participants against Obama specifically said that skin color was an issue for them).

 

[shibby]

What in the fuck are you even talking about? There is no reasoning there; it was a factual observation about the absurd "scandals" that have been circulated by the media.

Name one faux scandal for either of the other candidates that was half as absurd as the "Is Obama a Muslim?!?!" fear mongering that went on. Aside from the absurdity of the media hype, we have certifiable evidence of racism in regards to decisions made in voting (Based on exit polling in which participants against Obama specifically said that skin color was an issue for them).

Way to completely miss the point. Obama isn't the first candidate in history to face absurd scandals and talking points. But ignoring these things makes you ignorant about the actions of a candidate. These guys base alot of their actions in response to these stupid arguments. Obama has been talking about his Christian faith a lot more lately, in large part due to the Muslim rumors. Now if I was following Obama or McCain or whoever, I want to know why they structure their campaigns and speeches a certain way and hearing all sides of the issue, regardless of their validity, is a way to understand it.

 

[beelzebozo]

Because Neogaf is the premier political battlefield, where our every word sends ripples throughout the campaign (or: the internet is serious business.) That is a more annoying argument than Mercury Fred telling us "you should be nice to us Hillary supporters quit making fun of her eeeeeeee." Don't pretend you are actually offended.

:lol

odrion kicks ass. just consistently cleaning up in here.

 

[Phoenix]

i can't disagree more. wait, in fact i can -

i really REALLY disagree.

Then who do you think would be the right person for Obama to run with.

 

[WickedAngel]

Way to completely miss the point. Obama isn't the first candidate in history to face absurd scandals and talking points. But ignoring these things makes you ignorant about the actions of a candidate. These guys base alot of their actions in response to these stupid arguments. Obama has been talking about his Christian faith a lot more lately, in large part due to the Muslim rumors. Now if I was following Obama or McCain or whoever, I want to know why they structure their campaigns and speeches a certain way and hearing all sides of the issue, regardless of their validity, is a way to understand it.

Name one previous race in modern history where so many were so ready to avoid a candidate based on his race and easily refuted claims about religion that they would follow a candidate that has vowed to take us even further down the destructive path that has already failed us for 8 years.

You're not making a point; you're stating something that everyone already knows. Everyone knows that scandals are a part of politics. The point of concern is that these scandals are easily refuted and people would rather destroy the country than allow themselves to be educated.

 

[eznark]

Then who do you think would be the right person for Obama to run with.

who is the closest thing to Evan Bayh in Minnesota? (there ain't one in Wisconsin, or I would suggest that). A moderate with executive experience in a swing state. White, black, woman...doesn't matter. Moderate governor/ex-governor from a state in play. Iowa or Minnesota, since Jim Doyle (as much as I'd love to see him go) would be an awful choice.

 

[scorcho]

Then who do you think would be the right person for Obama to run with.

someone who doesn't carry excess baggage stemming from decades in the public life and party dominance. Barack can't trust them (and it's a two-fer-one package deal) to follow his path, nor their collective ability to suppress their ego in what was once the Clintons' party.

i don't need to think of a co-presidency of sorts, nor worry when Bill's explosive gaffes leak and drag as an anchor on the entire campaign or presidency.

who is the closest thing to Evan Bayh in Minnesota? (there ain't one in Wisconsin, or I would suggest that). A moderate with executive experience in a swing state. White, black, woman...doesn't matter. Moderate governor/ex-governor from a state in play. Iowa or Minnesota, since Jim Doyle (as much as I'd love to see him go) would be an awful choice.

yep, though my dream ticket would see a Bloomberg (though i concede that is a pipedream)

 

[shibby]

Name one previous race in modern history where so many were so ready to avoid a candidate based on his race and easily refuted claims about religion that they would follow a candidate that has vowed to take us even further down the destructive path that has already failed us for 8 years.

Now we're arguing different things. My original post was about having family members with differing political opinions. You're on a different tangent.

And it's been argued that McCain lost in 2000 because of the vicious rumors about the race of his daughter which were easily refuted so there you go.

 

[WickedAngel]

Now we're arguing different things. My original post was about having family members with differing political opinions. You're on a different tangent.

And it's been argued that McCain lost in 2000 because of the vicious rumors about the race of his daughter which were easily refuted so there you go.

Have any polling data that would prove how relevant that was in the decision making of 2000?

 

[eznark]

someone who doesn't carry excess baggage stemming from decades in the public life and party dominance. Barack can't trust them (and it's a two-fer-one package deal) to follow his path, nor their collective ability to suppress their ego in what was once the Clintons' party.

i don't need to think of a co-presidency of sorts, nor worry when Bill's explosive gaffes leak and drag as an anchor on the entire campaign or presidency.
yep, though my dream ticket would see a Bloomberg (though i concede that is a pipedream)

Bloomberg would be dumb considering how tight this election is likely to be.

What I can't figure out is who the hell McCain should pick to help a victory. Giuliani would lock up Florida, but he probably already has it. There are some young Republican stars in the midwest, but he probably needs some name recognition.

 

[shibby]

Have any polling data that would prove how relevant that was in the decision making of 2000?

I'm not going to looking for that; if they didn't directly ask about it in exit polls then you'd have to find when the rumors started surfing (if i remember correctly it started in South Carolina) and then compare polling data before and after. Either way I'm not that bored that I'll go looking it up, but I'm sure if you google it you'll find articles that talk about the rumors and their effect.