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[Flo_Evans]

Luckily my mom loves Obama... even though she is a bit racist. :lol

My problem is my wife to be. Her dad is a hardcore republican and still has a great deal of influence on her. Her justification for voting for Bush was "Voting with her wallet" I can understand that from her dad who has a ton of money and lives off his investments but she makes less than $40k a year. I've tried to explain to her that she really is not saving any taxes under Bush and we are going to have to pay more later because of the huge deficit but she doesn't really get it. Oh well! If our relationship survived Bush in office we can survive Obama!

 

[bill0527]

Obama plays old-school Chicago politics. But people just listen to the candidates say something and they eat it up. All the candidates offer change.

And to be fair, the only change I've seen this entire season in politics came from John McCain yesterday when he asked Obama to tour the country with him and hold town-hall debates.

But hey, keep believing these politicians and Obama's bull shit "I am change" and don't even wonder what kind and see where it will lead you. What's next? Are people going to believe that McCain is really their "friend" because he says "my friends" just as much as Obama uses the word "change"? :lol

Oh the general public is so politically uneducated.

I can't wait to see the change Obama brings to the U.S.

Espcially considering his track record of turning the south side of Chicago into a utopia.

 

[Big-E]

I am a Canadian so I am an outsider but I think that getting the old people to vote for Obama is a huge problem for him and the democrats and will probably cost him the election because traditionally, old people are the ones who vote.

 

[Jack Random]

My father actually believes that Obama is a Muslim extremist sleeper agent.

/sigh

 

[scorcho]

Having taken Intro to IR, I don't understand this.

me neither, especially considering that old FP hats from across the political spectrum agree to the need to chart a new course vis-a-vis Iran and diplomatic relations.

apparently, a lot of the country needs to take this purported IR 101 class (pg. 10)

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

My father actually believes that Obama is a Muslim extremist sleeper agent.

/sigh

It's just so fascinating how people come up with this. There are FACTS that proved these conspiracy theories SO impossible, and yet...people cling to ghost stories. I've never even heard muslim extremist sleeper agent, where the fuck would that even come from?

 

[funkmastergeneral]

It's just so fascinating how people come up with this. There are FACTS that proved these conspiracy theories SO impossible, and yet...people cling to ghost stories. I've never even heard muslim extremist sleeper agent, where the fuck would that even come from?

They just want a reason to not like Obama. I still believe A-Rod is a homosexual, contrary to the perceived truth.

 

[scorcho]

Obama plays old-school Chicago politics....
Oh the general public is so politically uneducated.

dude, a lot of what you wrote is completely myopic and reads as standard talking-points from the GOP. 'old-school' Chicago politics? Aires? the boogey-man paper tiger Ahmadinejad? Hamas' support of Obama?

the public is uneducated in large part because it's fed the thrust of your argument as literal truth.

 

[LCGeek]

It's just so fascinating how people come up with this. There are FACTS that proved these conspiracy theories SO impossible, and yet...people cling to ghost stories. I've never even heard muslim extremist sleeper agent, where the fuck would that even come from?

Fear and creative imaginations aka FUD (Fear uncertainty doubt)

 

[eznark]

What is your explanation of how this "weak candidate" in Obama just defeated Hillary Clinton?

Weak candidate...are you fucking kidding me?

"weak candidate" in terms of experience/accomplishments, one of the best ever in terms of charisma.

I'd say Hillary's negatives did as much to beat her as Obama did. Man was she worthless when forced into a national campaign.

 

[harSon]

Well, I think you're confusing two different issues. I was responding to Which, obviously is a completely nonsensical statement. You're supposed to think that someone doesn't like the new candidate. There are other reasons for "Bob" or other people to disagree with Obama. Maybe he's one of those pro-war democrats that didn't migrate to the neocons and supports Iraq. Maybe he's believed the propaganda and thinks McCain is better because he's less likely to repeal the PATRIOT act. Maybe he believes the bullshit about Obama being a muslim. Maybe he IS a raving, rabid racist.

But you can't say, just because one black candidate isn't whom they want that the ONLY reason is because they're black. Which doesn't mean in your specific friends example it ISN'T the reason, but the assumption of Obama supporters that people who disagree with him are obviously racist is the most annoying shtick going.

Well you seem to be a lot more optimistic then me I'm not attempting to call every Democrat turned Mccain supporter a racist, I'm simply stating that Racial reasons is a valid assumption on my part in many cases. When 20+ percent of Democrats openly admit to voting against Obama for racial reasons then there is something wrong. Is every staunch Democrat that has voted Democrat for 40+ years, is struggling under Republican rule, loathes Bush, and would do better financially under their preferred party... yet votes for Mccain anyways a racist? No, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to think a lot of them are.

 

[Keylime]

"weak candidate" in terms of experience/accomplishments, one of the best ever in terms of charisma.

I'd say Hillary's negatives did as much to beat her as Obama did. Man was she worthless when forced into a national campaign.

Obama will run circles around McCain.

Everyone who disagrees needs to rethink their life.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

I was talking about the primary since that's what he was complaining about (that his mother, a woman is voting for Hillary rather than Obama just because Hillary is also a woman). He doesn't like that reason, but then why isn't he complaining about blacks voting for the same shallow reason in the primary?

Gabron I have to take you to task I find it EXTREMELY insulting that you are choose to denigrate my ability to decide on a presidential candidate JUST based on race. You make the suggestion that just because I am Black I have no ability to make an intelligent and informed decision on the direction I wish for MY country to go.

I (and every person I know) are not voting for Obama becasue of just his race (which he is half white or is that another fact that we can throw under the rug when we feel like it?). Is it part of the appeal? Yes it is but, the reality it that this guy represents the POSSIBLILTY that America (not Black, not white, not Latino, not Asian) but, Americans can, as a people, move past the divisions of the past and do something that we can be proud of for our children. Because of him guess what you can see the possibility of an Latino president, or an Asian president, or a any person being President. It isn't about him, it is about us and what WE can do. After eight years of disastrous policy we need to look at new solutions for our current problems and we need to step out of the box to find those solutions. I think that ideal doesn't just appeal to Blacks that should appeal to all Americans.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Obama will run circles around McCain.

Everyone who disagrees needs to rethink their life.

This doesn't matter whatsoever. Both Kerry and Gore ran circles around Bush and look at what happened there.

All McCain has to do is bring up past Obama "scandals", comment on his "inexperience", and pander to the religious right (while commenting on his experience) and he will be fine.

 

[Deleted member 20415]

[Obama's] inexperience shows sometimes with things like talking to Ahmadinejad, things you learn not to do in International Relations 101.

Whoh whoh whoh... at which school did you take this IR 101 course because I intend to NEVER go near there... Don't talk to your "enemies" or people you have a disagreement with. That's cowboy diplomacy there chief.

Haven't you heard the little story about how The White House and the Kremlin installed a direct phone line to avoid problems?

Giving a regime the specs to a nuclear device is one thing... but when is communcation bad?

When you become president, remind me to go into exile.

 

[eznark]

Obama will run circles around McCain.

Everyone who disagrees needs to rethink their life.

that is reasonable

I am looking forward to the debates. I think both candidates are worthless, but it'll be interesting to see Obama debating someone with whom he has serious policy differences (they'll be able to hit each other on substantive issues, that should be good).

Giving a regime the specs to a nuclear device is one thing... but when is communcation bad?

When Kennedy made an ass of himself in direct talks with Russia emboldening them to overtly fund Cuba and almost resulting in WWIII?

 

[UltimaKilo]

Having taken Intro to IR, I don't understand this.

Hmm... then you should look for another school if they never taught you about. Go back and ask your professor to teach you about the options for creating diplomacy and the disadvantages and advantages of direct or indirect negotiations. Usually this can be found in textbooks under "The conduct of Diplomacy" or "National Power and Diplomacy" in higher end classes. Perhaps under "Leader to Leader Diplomacy" as well.

 

[BotoxAgent]

His inexperience shows sometimes with things like talking to Ahmadinejad, things you learn not to do in International Relations 101.

Or like sometimes when McCain confuses the difference between Sunnis and Shiites (as well as many other McCain greatest hits). *rolls eyes*

Does your last name happen to be Kristol? :lol

 

[Keylime]

This doesn't matter whatsoever. Both Kerry and Gore ran circles around Bush and look at what happened there.

You misunderstand me.

Obama will win the presidency handily in November.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

You misunderstand me.

Obama will win the presidency handily in November.

Handily? You are absolutely mad.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Whoh whoh whoh... at which school did you take this IR 101 course because I intend to NEVER go near there... Don't talk to your "enemies" or people you have a disagreement with. That's cowboy diplomacy there chief.

Haven't you heard the little story about how The White House and the Kremlin installed a direct phone line to avoid problems?

Giving a regime the specs to a nuclear device is one thing... but when is communcation bad?

When you become president, remind me to go into exile.

Again, read up on your advantages and disadvantages of direct and indirect diplomacy. My Bachelor is in International Relations.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Or like sometimes when McCain confuses the difference between Sunnis and Shiites (as well as many other McCain greatest hits). *rolls eyes*

Does your last name happen to be Kristol? :lol

First off, I don't know what your ponit has to do with anything. Obama didn't confuse what he said. Secondly, you are tying to make it seems as if I have a preferred candidate in this race, which is already just way off.

 

[The Frankman]

My parents don't like Obama and spew every dumb cliche Billary threw at him (Barack HUSSEIN Obama, He'll get killed before inauguration, etc.). But that's okay because they fear change and are bitter, holding onto guns and religion to get by in this world.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

Handily? You are absolutely mad.

Absinthe calling someone "absolutely mad"?

I love irony.

 

[kamorra]

As an outsider from the prehistorical Europe I have a question. Would it be really a problem if Obama was in fact a Muslim? I think it's bad enough that so many people obviously care about his color but his religion?

 

[UltimaKilo]

dude, a lot of what you wrote is completely myopic and reads as standard talking-points from the GOP. 'old-school' Chicago politics? Aires? the boogey-man paper tiger Ahmadinejad? Hamas' support of Obama?

the public is uneducated in large part because it's fed the thrust of your argument as literal truth.

Call it what you will, I'm just stating facts without picking sides. Both are weak candidates IMO. And yes, Hamas did endorse Obama! :lol

 

[scorcho]

let this be known to all - the opinion of establishment figures means nothing when compared to IR textbooks.

Call it what you will, I'm just stating facts without picking sides. Both are weak candidates IMO. And yes, Hamas did endorse Obama! :lol

and what does that MEAN? what you gave were normative statements that have no substance behind it.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Absinthe calling someone "absolutely mad"?

I love irony.

People that think that Obama is going to run away with the election are insane. McCain will at least be of some competition. Right now I'd say it is entirely too close to call.

 

[BocoDragon]

You gotta love how Obama just had a mega-controversy with a crazy Christian pastor, and people still think he's Muslim.

Also the Obama = Muslim thing is like Saddam being linked to 9/11. No one internationally is under that impression. Only in the US media... only on Fox News pretty much. I can't believe Americans actually believe this... but it pretty much can be traced back to republican smearing in US media, I'm sure.

 

[bob_arctor]

Having worked and studied in politics for a while, I can tell you Obama is not a strong candidate. The dems are going to have a tough time with Obama as the candidate, Rev. Wright, William Aires, and now the Catholic priest only just touch upon his political weakness.

Secondly, Obama is the most liberal person in the Senate and he has only been there 4 years. In a country that is center-right, it is very difficult for him to pull those conservative dems, republicans, and many independents. Especially with endorsements from Hamas and even favored by Fidel Castro, Obama is probably hoping some people shut up.

His inexperience shows sometimes with things like talking to Ahmadinejad, things you learn not to do in International Relations 101.

Then there is the McCain factor. At one point people though he could not win the election because he didn't have much Republican support, being seen as a liberal by the far right. And in the end, many people on the far right might stay home or opt for the 3rd party. And it's difficult when many Republicans know that McCain is not the most conservative, and his relationship with top dems (Kennedy, Lieberman, Feingold, etc.), and is usually seen working more with dems than with those in his own party.

The war is possibly turning, with commanders on the ground even considering handing Al-Ambar to the Iraqi government. U.S. casualties are at an all-time low allowing McCain to bash Obama on things like his not meeting with commanders on the ground or having been to Iraq with his famous "I'll show you around" poke at Obama. Though there is a lot of time left until November.

Hey, you sound familiar. Like the usual bunch telling me how it is and how it's always gonna be, cuz, you know, they say so. Why, here's one Rich Lowry just today:

If his newness on the national scene has fueled Obama's rise, it also makes him an unsettlingly unknown commodity. Who is he really?

His close association with Rev. Wright and assorted other Chicago left-wingers calls into question his soothing image as the candidate of transpartisan unity, and he's been dishonest in explaining away his membership at Wright's radical church.

He arrives at the doorstep of the presidency with no national-security experience to speak of, except - as Clinton scathingly put it - one speech in 2002 opposing the Iraq war.

Finally, there's ideology. Has the country really lurched so far left since 2004 that it will swallow a Democrat who voted against funding the troops, takes his orders from the unions on trade policy, has said he'll meet with practically every American-hating tyrant the world has to offer, operationally favors gay marriage and partial-birth abortion and, at his worst, gives off a sense of elite cultural condescension?

So I guess the question is: Why do you post here Mr. Lowry?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Call it what you will, I'm just stating facts without picking sides. Both are weak candidates IMO. And yes, Hamas did endorse Obama! :lol

They renounced him as well.

 

[Flo_Evans]

As an outsider from the prehistorical Europe I have a question. Would it be really a problem if Obama was in fact a Muslim? I think it's bad enough that so many people obviously care about his color but his religion?

Uh, yeah. I think its a safe bet to say if he was a muslim he wouldn't even have gotten this far. It was a big deal when a catholic got elected here.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

People that think that Obama is going to run away with the election are insane. McCain will at least be of some competition.

It's absolutely going to be a closer race than most would think, but I still find it entertaining when you of all people call someone else crazy. lol

 

[UltimaKilo]

As an outsider from the prehistorical Europe I have a question. Would it be really a problem if Obama was in fact a Muslim? I think it's bad enough that so many people obviously care about his color but his religion?

I think the concern was more that he was a "secret Muslim".

 

[Keylime]

People that think that Obama is going to run away with the election are insane. McCain will at least be of some competition. Right now I'd say it is entirely too close to call.

Sure...just by participating McCain satisfies the requirement to be called "competition".

 

[Gaborn]

Gabron I have to take you to task I find it EXTREMELY insulting that you are choose to denigrate my ability to decide on a presidential candidate JUST based on race. You make the suggestion that just because I am Black I have no ability to make an intelligent and informed decision on the direction I wish for MY country to go.

I (and every person I know) are not voting for Obama becasue of just his race (which he is half white or is that another fact that we can throw under the rug when we feel like it?). Is it part of the appeal? Yes it is but, the reality it that this guy represents the POSSIBLILTY that America (not Black, not white, not Latino, not Asian) but, Americans can, as a people, move past the divisions of the past and do something that we can be proud of for our children. Because of him guess what you can see the possibility of an Latino president, or an Asian president, or a any person being President. It isn't about him, it is about us and what WE can do. After eight years of disastrous policy we need to look at new solutions for our current problems and we need to step out of the box to find those solutions. I think that ideal doesn't just appeal to Blacks that should appeal to all Americans.

That's NOT what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people that are upset that some women voted for Hillary Clinton because she's a woman are ignoring the obvious fact. What else are you attributing Obama's 90% support among the black community in the primaries to? I'm not even saying there's something WRONG with supporting a candidate for a status based reason. It's stupid to complain about either candidate receiving support based on their status because it's human nature. Most people like to have something in common with a candidate they support, especially when facing two similar choices as primary seasons often result in (position wise Hillary and Obama are fairly similar, stylistically they vary widely).

However, while it's stupid to assume ALL blacks who support Obama do so because he's black, it's equally stupid to deny that SOME blacks support Obama because he's black. And that's what I was saying, some women supported Hillary in the primary because she's a woman. If you think that's a stupid reason then what about the blacks who DO support Obama JUST because he's black (and ignoring the other blacks who support him because they like him beyond his race).

 

[kamorra]

I think the concern was more that he was a "secret Muslim".

It seems that you have to be a "secret Muslim" if you want to achieve something.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

It's absolutely going to be a closer race than most would think, but I still find it entertaining when you of all people call someone else crazy. lol

First of all, uncalled for. Secondly, I'm not.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I believe if obama were white, this would be a run away election for him.

 

[Cheebs]

I believe if obama were white, this would be a run away election for him.

If obama were white he wouldnt have won the nomination. The young, reform minded outsider candidates never win. But he added african americans to that which was a winning coalition.

 

[eznark]

I believe if obama were white, this would be a run away election for him.

John Edwards disagrees.

 

[Keylime]

If obama were white he wouldnt have won the nomination. The young, reform minded outsider candidates never win. But he added african americans to that which was a winning coalition.

*nods*

 

[UltimaKilo]

I believe if obama were white, this would be a run away election for him.

He is just as white as he is black. And I think if he were white, Billary would have stolen the black vote, blue collar vote, AND women's vote.

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

That's NOT what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that people that are upset that some women voted for Hillary Clinton because she's a woman are ignoring the obvious fact. What else are you attributing Obama's 90% support among the black community in the primaries to? I'm not even saying there's something WRONG with supporting a candidate for a status based reason. It's stupid to complain about either candidate receiving support based on their status because it's human nature. Most people like to have something in common with a candidate they support, especially when facing two similar choices as primary seasons often result in (position wise Hillary and Obama are fairly similar, stylistically they vary widely).

However, while it's stupid to assume ALL blacks who support Obama do so because he's black, it's equally stupid to deny that SOME blacks support Obama because he's black. And that's what I was saying, some women supported Hillary in the primary because she's a woman. If you think that's a stupid reason then what about the blacks who DO support Obama JUST because he's black (and ignoring the other blacks who support him because they like him beyond his race).

I agree and thanks for the clarification. As for those that support him just because he is black I put them in the same group that vote Clinton just because she is a woman, or McCain just because he is a Veteran. I think in general we should focus more on the policies and not the person.


I will say this however, if his Blackness makes some blacks (especially young Blacks) more engaged in the political process and engaged in becoming a more productive part of this Democracy then I applaud that

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

He is just as white as he is black. And I think if he were white, Billary would have stolen the black vote, blue collar vote, AND women's vote.

This is the correct answer.

 

[UltimaKilo]

John Edwards disagrees.

Hmm... Well put. Does anyone remember the debate with Edwards, Obama, & Clinton where they pointed out that Edwards was the sole white guy on the stage and Obama consoled him? :lol

 

[The Blue Jihad]

First of all, uncalled for. Secondly, I'm not.

Oh, come now, silly. It was certainly called for, because I've never seen you act remotely normal. It's always been "anger this, anger that" from you. So you either do it intentionally for whatever reason, or genuinely have some sort of mental illness. I'm not ragging on you here, just letting you know that I find it hilarious.

Not quite as hilarious as this queer, paralyzing fear-mongering that's apparently taken over simple Americans, but hilarious nonetheless.

 

[Gaborn]

Tommy - Thanks, I agree, all candidates are individuals and we should evaluate them as such.

 

[VeritasVierge]

I was talking about the primary since that's what he was complaining about (that his mother, a woman is voting for Hillary rather than Obama just because Hillary is also a woman). He doesn't like that reason, but then why isn't he complaining about blacks voting for the same shallow reason in the primary?

How can you be sure it's the same "shallow reason"? Not saying that there aren't some (there defintely is) but if you looked at the earlier from last year, many blacks actually voted for Hillary. I understand the point you are trying to make here but you're falling into that generalizing trap too.

I'm black and am only settling on Obama because Edwards is out. Even then, my second choice was Ron Paul.

 

[-COOLIO-]

John Edwards disagrees.

Ya I know but I still hold this opinion