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My white neighbor thought I was breaking into my own apartment. (Article)

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At least the neighbor did his best to mend the fences with her afterwards. What an absolute asshole.

The priviledge is beyond dripping off of this asshole. God fucking damn, I am depressed tonight after seeing this, the Minnesota BLM shooting and Laquan McDonald's murder. Fuck.
 

n64coder

Member
Wasn't this article already posted recently on GAF? I remember there was a discussion about it but I can't find the thread. Was it deleted? The article is dated Nov 18th.
 

entremet

Member
Wasn't this article already posted recently on GAF? I remember there was a discussion about it but I can't find the thread. Was it deleted? The article is dated Nov 18th.

no idea. i did a search based on the title and couldn't find anything.
 
I'm actually split on this, because something similar happened to me after moving in to my neighborhood, which is reasonably wealthy, but not excessively so.

Coming home from work one day I was confronted by a neighbor a few houses down asking why I called the police on her son. I was confused, since I did no such thing having been at work all day.

After calming her down, hearing her side of it and talking to other neighbors, what had ACTUALLY happened was her son had wandered onto my property to hang out under the trees, play guitar, smoke his cigarettes, whatever- apparently he used to be friends with the previous owner and has a learning disability.

a DIFFERENT neighbor who wasn't familiar with him (but had been introduced to me and the wife when moving in) saw him wandering around the property, knew he didn't belong there and called the police. He was swarmed by about 6 police cruisers in less than five minutes and apparently the encounter wasn't all that pleasant.

The twist is that I'm a black guy in my mid 30s, and this was a 20 something white kid who had lived in that neighborhood all his life. I'm reluctant to paint this one as strictly a racial incident, rather than something that's prone to happen in an insular wealthy neighborhood where people are more prone to embrace fear and paranoia when something happens rather than talking things out.
 

Philia

Member
I'd move out of there if I were her. :\

That's the thing I don't understand, WOULD you live in a nicer upscale neighborhood KNOWING the risk of being discriminated from your white neighbors?
 

TylerD

Member
Her conversation with the neighbor starts at 24:20 here: https://soundcloud.com/latimes/santa-monica-police-recording-of-encounter-with-fay-wells

She asked him "Have you had something to drink (unintelligible, maybe she said though?)" then he says "I'm a lawyer, so go eff yourself." That was towards the end of the conversation.

I listened to the whole thing and I understand the perspective of the neighbor worried and calling the perceived burglary in, of Fay's exasperation of having the guns pointed at her and the dog barking and of the officers who aren't trusting of the situation due to the information they had been provided by the dispatcher.

Fay was right to approach the situation as cautiously as she did but it is sad to believe that was necessary.
 

Aselith

Member
I'm actually split on this, because something similar happened to me after moving in to my neighborhood, which is reasonably wealthy, but not excessively so.

Coming home from work one day I was confronted by a neighbor a few houses down asking why I called the police on her son. I was confused, since I did no such thing having been at work all day.

After calming her down, hearing her side of it and talking to other neighbors, what had ACTUALLY happened was her son had wandered onto my property to hang out under the trees, play guitar, smoke his cigarettes, whatever- apparently he used to be friends with the previous owner and has a learning disability.

a DIFFERENT neighbor who wasn't familiar with him (but had been introduced to me and the wife when moving in) saw him wandering around the property, knew he didn't belong there and called the police. He was swarmed by about 6 police cruisers in less than five minutes and apparently the encounter wasn't all that pleasant.

The twist is that I'm a black guy in my mid 30s, and this was a 20 something white kid who had lived in that neighborhood all his life. I'm reluctant to paint this one as strictly a racial incident, rather than something that's prone to happen in an insular wealthy neighborhood where people are more prone to embrace fear and paranoia when something happens rather than talking things out.

This may be the case but if it's not a racial issue doesn't that make it an even broader issue where the police are responding with undue and frankly unnecessary force without even assessing the situation first? If they knock on the door and investigate without guns drawn everyone is going to feel a lot more comfortable but they are going in like SWAT when nothing is happening. Nothing is going on yet. How would you feel if a cop pulled you over on the highway and approached with guns pointed at you for a routine traffic stop?
 
This may be the case but if it's not a racial issue doesn't that make it an even broader issue where the police are responding with undue and frankly unnecessary force without even assessing the situation first? If they knock on the door and investigate without guns drawn everyone is going to feel a lot more comfortable but they are going in like SWAT when nothing is happening. Nothing is going on yet. How would you feel if a cop pulled you over on the highway and approached with guns pointed at you for a routine traffic stop?

Haha, to the bolded: that's actually happened. Not all that rare. Kind of a "not this shit again" moment. I've had worse happen- one asshole cop tore my car apart when I was a teenager looking for (nonexistent) drugs, then demanded I scrape all of the (legal!) tint from the car with apparently my bare hands. My friend with me at the time faked a heart issue to get him to leave us the fuck alone.

But to the rest of your question- the cops ABSOLUTELY overreacted, but cops in these neighborhoods will overreact to EVERYTHING and the people that live here are quite vocal about demanding this kind of response from them. They're overfunded and lack actual things to do. I tread carefully around them knowing this. Is it right? no. But changing the race of the person in the story likely would not have changed the outcome- the issue is a bit more complex than that.
 

Heel

Member
Her conversation with the neighbor starts at 24:20 here: https://soundcloud.com/latimes/santa-monica-police-recording-of-encounter-with-fay-wells

She asked him "Have you had something to drink (unintelligible, maybe she said though?)" then he says "I'm a lawyer, so go eff yourself." That was towards the end of the conversation.

I listened to the whole thing and I understand the perspective of the neighbor worried and calling the perceived burglary in, of Fay's exasperation of having the guns pointed at her and the dog barking and of the officers who aren't trusting of the situation due to the information they had been provided by the dispatcher.

Fay was right to approach the situation as cautiously as she did but it is sad to believe that was necessary.

Yeah, I'm with you. Listening to the audio should almost be a requisite before jumping into the conversation on this, especially when commenting on what would be a ridiculous reaction by the neighbor without proper context. I think the chief pretty much nailed it.
 

Aselith

Member
Haha, to the bolded: that's actually happened. Not all that rare. Kind of a "not this shit again" moment. I've had worse happen- one asshole cop tore my car apart when I was a teenager looking for (nonexistent) drugs, then demanded I scrape all of the (legal!) tint from the car with apparently my bare hands. My friend with me at the time faked a heart issue to get him to leave us the fuck alone.

But to the rest of your question- the cops ABSOLUTELY overreacted, but cops in these neighborhoods will overreact to EVERYTHING and the people that live here are quite vocal about demanding this kind of response from them. They're overfunded and lack actual things to do. I tread carefully around them knowing this. Is it right? no. But changing the race of the person in the story likely would not have changed the outcome- the issue is a bit more complex than that.

Ah but then consider this. We know statistically that police officers are more likely to react in weird and racististic way to a black person coming out of that apartment than a white person, more untrustful and with more force. So now it goes from a whoa that was crazy! situation to an actually dangerous one where _____ while black is a factor.

That's problem if race is a factor overall in how police respond to people then it's always going to be a factor even on routine calls. All it takes is one wrong move on her part and this becomes another incident. Cops should be deescalating situations not heightening them.
 
Ah but then consider this. We know statistically that police officers are more likely to react in weird and racististic way to a black person coming out of that apartment than a white person, more untrustful and with more force. So now it goes from a whoa that was crazy! situation to an actually dangerous one where _____ while black is a factor.

That's problem if race is a factor overall in how police respond to people then it's always going to be a factor even on routine calls. All it takes is one wrong move on her part and this becomes another incident. Cops should be deescalating situations not heightening them.

no one is going to disagree with you here (well ok, SOMEONE will..there's always one), but now you're talking about a much broader issue than this incident, and rehashing well worn complaints everyone has with law enforcement in general- black cops, white cops, rich cops, poor cops...etc.

unfortunately much like politicians, law enforcement as a career is incredibly attractive to the people least suited to be working there, and the longer they're on the force the more jaded they become. Unless you've got a solution to this one (I like forcibly drafting people to be cops like we did in 'Nam then kicking them out after 10 years) none of the above will change, and minorities will unfortunately have to treat encounters with police with kid gloves while white people don't.

perhaps this will change in 50 or 100 years, but I doubt it.
 

Calcaneus

Member
They asked me why I hadn’t come outside shouting, “I live here.”
This was the most infuriating part for me because we know exactly what would happen if she did.

And hearing that neighbor defend himself, he just outright doesn't believe anything bad happened or that something even worse nearly did. It sounds like his reasoning is, "I thought I saw a break in so better safe than sorry. Nobody was actually breaking in so great! Go on with your day. A thank you would be nice by the way". Completely ignoring how fucking terrifying it is to have nearly 20 cops at your door with guns barking out orders, and how that could have easily become tragic. I guess to be fair to him, he probably didn't expect that extreme of a response.
 

Aselith

Member
no one is going to disagree with you here (well ok, SOMEONE will..there's always one), but now you're talking about a much broader issue than this incident, and rehashing well worn complaints everyone has with law enforcement in general- black cops, white cops, rich cops, poor cops...etc.

unfortunately much like politicians, law enforcement as a career is incredibly attractive to the people least suited to be working there, and the longer they're on the force the more jaded they become. Unless you've got a solution to this one (I like forcibly drafting people to be cops like we did in 'Nam then kicking them out after 10 years) none of the above will change, and minorities will unfortunately have to treat encounters with police with kid gloves while white people don't.

perhaps this will change in 50 or 100 years, but I doubt it.

There are tons of people that are fantastic police officers out there not killing people. The problem is that the system protects the ones that are unsuited to the profession not that there are not people suited to being a police officer applying for it.

This is quite literally a bad apple situation but the other apples have an Apple Shield of Silence to protect the bad ones.
 
There are tons of people that are fantastic police officers out there not killing people. The problem is that the system protects the ones that are unsuited to the profession not that there are not people suited to being a police officer applying for it.

I'm not talking about killing people, i'm talking about police officer bias in general. It's always tragic when it manifests as a cop shooting an unarmed kid and that gets a lot of press, but bog standard racial profiling (say, Stop and Frisk) and general asshollery happens every day, even by "good" cops.

and yes, people who are not suited to be cops being attracted to the position is ABSOLUTELY a problem- or perhaps another way of putting it is that there's something about police work that has the people you would PREFER to be law enforcement running away from it.

There are other barriers to recruiting good police officers. A 2010 RAND study found some departments were having trouble competing with the large number of jobs created by the war on terror. There are cultural matters, too: millennials, the researchers found, may be less enthusiastic about the prospect of joining the rank-and-file. "The youngest generation of workers has shown marked preferences toward extrinsic work values, such as prestige, changing tasks, social and cognitive aspects of work, and flexibility," the researchers wrote. "Many of these career expectations cannot be met in law enforcement."

"There are certain people you don't want to be police officers whatever race they are."
Whatever the reasons, a smaller applicant pool makes it more difficult for departments to maintain high standards. Recently, Wexler points out, New Orleans scrapped a requirement that new officers without two years of military service have at least 60 college credits. The move might grow the department, according to a recent Times-Picayune story, "but research suggests the officers it takes on could be more likely to use force on the job."

"People think a police force should be a microcosm of society. That's not right. That's not correct," says Wexler. "You want a police force to be more selective than a microcosm of society. There are certain people you don't want to be police officers whatever race they are."

http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/04/who-wants-to-be-a-police-officer/391017/

I do hiring and training within the state's department of corrections, and it's a big problem here. Some of the rank and file are just unbelievably shitty people, and those were the ones that passed the psych exam!
 

Aselith

Member
I'm not talking about killing people, i'm talking about police officer bias in general. It's always tragic when it manifests as a cop shooting an unarmed kid and that gets a lot of press, but bog standard racial profiling (say, Stop and Frisk) and general asshollery happens every day, even by "good" cops.

and yes, people who are not suited to be cops being attracted to the position is ABSOLUTELY a problem- or perhaps another way of putting it is that there's something about police work that has the people you would PREFER to be law enforcement running away from it.



http://www.citylab.com/crime/2015/04/who-wants-to-be-a-police-officer/391017/

I do hiring and training within the state's department of corrections, and it's a big problem here. Some of the rank and file are just unbelievably shitty people, and those were the ones that passed the psych exam!

That's an interesting problem, not sure how you'd deal with that one. How are you dealing with it on the corrections side?
 
I know how this would have turned out if she were a White woman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7i60GuNRg


Police respond in number to what could be described as a life threatening situation. Someone entering a residence that has been the reported scene of a burglary will be treated as a burglar until cleared. If units are clear or on lower priority runs, all available officers will go on high priority runs. In my city Burglary in progress, sexual assault, shootings, stabbings, robbery in progress and officer in trouble calls are all priority 1 runs. All available officers, running hot.


I'm ignoring the neighbor situation, and describing this as a generic.

Bystanders, neighbors, citizens etc. are a problem. We get tons of calls on "suspicious people", the callers don't articulate "suspicious" but we can tell it means black or whatever. It wastes a ton of resources and puts people in danger, but we can't just ignore the calls.

Problem is when they ignore her proof that she lives in the residence.

Problem is when they refuse to give names and badge numbers because they don't want to be held accountable.

Problem is she doesn't have the luxury of "ignoring the neighbor situation". She lives there.
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I'm extremely interested in hearing from locksmiths about how many of their service calls in white neighborhoors result in police visits, and the races of the clients when that happens. Also very interested in the percentage of police calls when the locksmith is brown. Also, naturally, the percentage of police calls when both locksmith and client are minorities is of interest.
 

Korey

Member
Her conversation with the neighbor starts at 24:20 here: https://soundcloud.com/latimes/santa-monica-police-recording-of-encounter-with-fay-wells

She asked him "Have you had something to drink (unintelligible, maybe she said though?)" then he says "I'm a lawyer, so go eff yourself." That was towards the end of the conversation.

I listened to the whole thing and I understand the perspective of the neighbor worried and calling the perceived burglary in, of Fay's exasperation of having the guns pointed at her and the dog barking and of the officers who aren't trusting of the situation due to the information they had been provided by the dispatcher.

Fay was right to approach the situation as cautiously as she did but it is sad to believe that was necessary.

Is it actually normal procedure that cops can enter and search your place if someone says that they saw someone break in?

Also, instead of just trying to hammer their perspective on her, they should have apologized at the same time. I think that would have went a long way and shortened the 40 minute conversation where they're just arguing in circles.

Something like, "We're sorry for making you feel unsafe, and hindsight is 20/20, but here is our perspective." Instead of "HERE'S OUR PERSPECTIVE. SEE OUR PERSPECTIVE."
 
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