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[Alligatorjandro]

 

[Jarate]

To me that is subjective. There is no objective definition for "woman." The only objective definition is the male or female sex. Therefore anything surrounding gender is subject to a person's feelings about their place within the mostly social construct of gender (girls wear dresses, boys wear pants, for example). If both human genders had the same mannerisms, the same clothing, and the same everything else there would be no need to understand gender, the only thing one would need to understand is that there are different sexes. The point is, gender is a social construct itself. Just like race. I feel as though people have the right to choose their place in the social construct if we're going to allow people to have sexual/gender freedom. It's only fair.

Read my post above

There are literal mental differences between men and women, and trans persons exhibit the same mental changes seen in the gender they are trying to represent as.

They were literally born in the opposite body. Caitlyn Jenner wasn't trying to "pretend" to be female to fit in, she is literally a female within the wrong body.

Transethnic is not even close to being similar.

 

[J10]

White people tend to buy trash bags while us minority folk tend to just use plastic bags from Wal-Mart.

Disclaimer: I have not done a full study on white people's trash bag buying trends.

Pretty much anyone who's thrifty does it, but of course since browns = poors, it's somehow our thing.

 

[Slayven]

I still can;'t get over her shitting on black men that marry white women, but her husband married a white woman.

 

[SmokyDave]

well, like Royalan said, it's only a "thing" because of people saying it is in the wake of htis story-- and Rachel herself has not ever claimed to be "transracial."

That's not quite true. Although you're right that she hasn't used the term, the term isn't new. It's been around for a while now. If you go back a week or two to the transabled thread, you'll probably find it used in there.

 

[dr3upmushroom]

guys, MJ had the answer all along http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F2AitTPI5U0

 

[JustenP88]

I still can;'t get over her shitting on black men that marry white women, but her husband married a white woman.

I thought she was shitting on whatever Tyrese's rationalization of why he'd want to marry white over black was?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I thought she was shitting on whatever Tyrese's rationalization of why he'd want to marry white over black was?

Slayven is still correct in pointing out her cognitive dissonance.

 

[Infinite]

That's not quite true. Although you're right that she hasn't used the term, the term isn't new. It's been around for a while now. If you go back a week or two to the transabled thread, you'll probably find it used in there.

Yeah it's not a new word but it's not a word used to describe this event. I heard people say transsexual adoptions in the past using it to describe a white family that adopts a black child or something similar to that. Never heard it used to describe a person who did what she did

 

[Ferrio]

guys, MJ had the answer all along http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F2AitTPI5U0

No, Tommy Davidson did

 

[Madness]

I say we go get some blood samples to prove once and for all that her father is actually 1/8th black.

Edit: Seems like that site is blocked. Just Google Rachel Dolezal and the UK tabloid/news site. They spoke with her parents who even provided them pictures of her birth certificate.

He's not. Larry who she says is her stepfather is actually her birth father. She wasn't born in Montana. Her own mother and father, who seem like ordinary people are saying she cut them out of her lives because it didn't work with the narrative she wanted. She now says Iziah who is actually her adopted brother is her oldest son, some random old black dude is her birth father etc.

Rachel Dolezal is a pathological liar. And yet, people are coming up with every single excuse they can muster to save her from rightful criticism. Invoking medical/socio-cultural terms like Transethnicity and Transracialism which don't even exist yet. Coming up with hypothetical situations where she could be in danger, her life could be over, even bringing up Michael Jackson etc.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Do you think she ever casually said "nigga" in a conversation, and people around her just nodded in agreement? I wonder if those folks feel better about it...

 

[Jarate]

Yeah it's not a new word but it's not a word used to describe this event. I heard people say transsexual adoptions in the past using it to describe a white family that adopts a black child or something similar to that. Never heard it used to describe a person who did what she did

It's a term that got popular on tumblr around the time it started to get more popular. There were certain sects within the tumblr community that referred to themselves as "transethnic" saying they were born the wrong race, but nobody was really sure if it was a joke or not.

In this case it somewhat fits, although I dont think she actually thinks of herself as a black women, and if she does, she is obviously very delusional, or just caught in a lie.

 

[GameGuru59]

There are literal mental differences between men and women (mostly sexuality in nature) that scientists know exist. Trans persons have the exact same brain waves as those they are trying to represent. This means they were literally born into the wrong body.

Well, I'm not sure if we have brain wave studies with enough resolution to tell the difference between a person that is ethnically black and a person ethnically white, but if we did, I think we would find differences. Men and women are so drastically different that it makes sense that we would find these differences earlier. Moreover, just because there are brain wave differences doesn't mean the person is transgender (people want us to think of gender as a continuum now anyway, right?), lest you're willing to argue that a man with female mannerisms is not a man. Or (worse), that there could or should be a test for determining who is and isn't transgender? That wouldn't be ideal in my book.

Edit: Hell, the existence of #AskRachel at all proves there are real differences between the black and white ethnic groups.

I'm under the impression that a major point of the LGBT movement is to allow for a variety of expressions of gender that aren't considered typical socially. My point is that transgender people are electing to become part of a gender group (a social construct) because they feel more comfortable expressing themselves in that fashion. That's fine. If a person's understanding of their identity is of a certain ethnic group, why shouldn't they be able to choose that ethnic group?

What's funny to me is that the entire legal basis for legal victories for LGBT people in the courts (and the court of public opinion) is the fact that they are simply asking the question: "Why not?" That's the same question I'm asking for transracial. Why not allow people to become part of another racial/ethnic group? Hell there are numerous examples of people throughout history doing this anyway.

 

[Thorakai]

I have a bag full of bags, but its not under my sink.

 

[JustenP88]

Slayven is still correct in pointing out her cognitive dissonance.

Well, ummmm... It's not like it takes a keen eye to notice her cognitive dissonance but point taken.

 

[Aselith]

White people tend to buy trash bags while us minority folk tend to just use plastic bags from Wal-Mart.

Disclaimer: I have not done a full study on white people's trash bag buying trends.

I use Walmart bags to put in my smaller trash cans. #blacknessconfirmed

 

[SmokyDave]

Yeah it's not a new word but it's not a word used to describe this event. I heard people say transsexual adoptions in the past using it to describe a white family that adopts a black child or something similar to that. Never heard it used to describe a person who did what she did

This is closer to the same usage as what is going on here (although obviously surgery is more extreme than hair & makeup). It's from August last year. I bet there are plenty more instances out there.

Edit: a quick Google shows the surgery version being used at least ten years ago, if not more.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Someone explain this one to me.

Are you African American?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

http://t.co/87iAgYOgDq

"i do consider myself to be black"

Her brother is her son??

What?

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is closer to the same usage as what is going on here (although obviously surgery is more extreme than hair & makeup). It's from August last year. I bet there are plenty more instances out there.

Edit: a quick Google shows the surgery version being used at least ten years ago, if not more.

This is predominately about people who aren't white having surgeries to try and fit in with the societal beauty (which are frequently racist as all hell) standards, this has nothing to do really with identifying as a different race.

 

[Jarate]

Well, I'm not sure if we have brain wave studies with enough resolution to tell the difference between a person that is ethnically black and a person ethnically white, but if we did, I think we would find differences. Men and women are so drastically different that it makes sense that we would find these differences earlier. Moreover, just because there are brain wave differences doesn't mean the person is transgender (people want us to think of gender as a continuum now anyway, right?), lest you're willing to argue that a man with female mannerisms is not a man. Or (worse), that there could or should be a test for determining who is and isn't transgender? That wouldn't be ideal in my book.

I'm under the impression that a major point of the LGBT movement is to allow for a variety of expressions of gender that aren't considered typical socially. My point is that transgender people are electing to become part of a gender group (a social construct) because they feel more comfortable expressing themselves in that fashion. If a person's understanding of their identity is of a certain ethnic group, why shouldn't they be able to choose that ethnic group.

I think you sat here, read my post and just ignored everything in it

There are literal known differences between men and women. This is a known fact, you can look this up on the googles. Being trans is not trying to represent yourself as a :female" the way society does, it's an unyielding need to be the person you actually are.

You are literally born transgender. This isn't up for debate, this isnt a boy trying to appear more feminine or a girl wanting to be more masculine, this is literally someone who is trapped in the wrong body and wanting to represent themselves within that. A crossdresser isn't trans, a drag queen isn't trans, a tomboy isn't trans, a trans person is trans.

And, no, unless there is evidence, you can't say "maybe whites and blacks do have different mental capacities" because with our current knowledge, it doesnt exist. It theoretically could change, but it could theoretically never be found. This is an argument that doesnt work because if you disagree with the statement, you have to find evidence to back that up.

 

[big ander]

like this blog post on the situation
On Rachel Dolezal

This Rachel Dolezal situation is all sorts of fucked up (and hilarious imo). But since I heard about her, I can’t stop thinking about the history of white women trying to “pass” for black in order to co-opt the struggles black people faced, particularly during the Harlem Renaissance. I don’t recall any of them going to quite the same lengths as Dolezal, though Lillian Wood, author of “Let My People Go,” was believed to be a black woman for some time and just…never corrected anyone.

During the Harlem Renaissance, there was a pretty active group of white women who basically moved to Harlem and basically forced themselves into black social spaces, calling themselves “voluntary Negroes”. They made themselves “authorities” on black issues, collected black art and commissioned work from Renaissance writers like Langston Hughes and Zora Neale Hurston for photos and papers on “authentic” black life, and in some cases, really did consider themselves to be black at heart: Nancy Cunard, “I speak as if I were a Negro myself,” and Charlotte Good Mason, “I am a better Negro than most of the Negroes I know.” (Mason would also make her patrons, including Hughes and Hurston, refer to her as “Godmother”.) This phenomena was discussed in Carla Kaplan’s needlessly empathetic book Miss Anne in Harlem: The White Women of the Harlem Renaissance, published in 2013, that more or less paints them as forward-thinking revolutionaries…

These women fetishized the experiences of black men and women to the point that they convinced themselves they intimately knew what it meant to be black–and even become black themselves. Because most of these women were wealthy and privileged, they exerted power over these black artists who were often just trying to make ends meet. Without their financial contributions, a lot of the work we enjoy from these writers especially would likely have not seen publication.

They used Harlem artists as textbooks and walked away with only the most basic, surface ideas of a “black identity” that was built on stereotypes. Similar, as I suspect, to Dolezal, this kind of mimicry has less to do with a genuine desire to aid the struggle for civil rights, and more to with a desire to enjoy “exotic” black culture while co-opting blacks’ oppression for their own purposes. I also feel that in many cases, this has to do with some white women/peoples’ issues of privilege and wanting to align themselves with oppressed minorities, so that they may claim that oppression for themselves and deny their own racial privilege.

There isn’t a ton of scholarship on the subject, unfortunately. (If anyone has addt’l links they want to add, please feel free.) I’m mostly going off of what I learned from an amazing professor I had, Autumn Womack, who taught us about the role white women had during the renaissance. I’ve linked to a video of her giving a lecture on the subject below; it’s definitely worth the watch.

Some links:

Uptown Girls: “Miss Anne in Harlem” by Carla Kaplan -NYTimes

Women Without Race: Miss Anne in Harlem - The Daily Beast

The Cambridge Companion to the Harlem Renaissance

Langston Hughes “Slave on the Block” from The Ways of White Folk

Artist Lecture Series - Autumn Womack [on White Patronage in the Harlem Renaissance]

 

[SmokyDave]

^ Fuck me that's interesting. Isn't Harlem Renaissance her Twitter handle too?

This is predominately about people who aren't white having surgeries to try and fit in with the societal beauty (which are frequently racist as all hell) standards, this has nothing to do really with identifying as a different race.

Just saying that neither transethnic nor transracial are new terms. Some posters are making it sound like they were invented for this woman.

The 'I feel like a different race' stuff didn't start yesterday either so it'll be very difficult to pin down exactly when the terms were co-opted.

 

[Cagey]

Are you African American?

That's a black thing? Everyone in my family does that.

..

Hm.

 

[gdt]

It crazy that I hadn't heard of them in years but I remember their big song.

I'm always interested in hearing what one hit wonder ish rappers are doing nowadays.

 

[Aselith]

like this blog post on the situation
On Rachel Dolezal

Holy shit her twitter name is Harlem Renaissance lmao

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

To me that is subjective. There is no objective definition for "woman." The only objective definition is the male or female sex. Therefore anything surrounding gender is subject to a person's feelings about their place within the mostly social construct of gender (girls wear dresses, boys wear pants, for example). If both human genders had the same mannerisms, the same clothing, and the same everything else there would be no need to understand gender, the only thing one would need to understand is that there are different sexes. The point is, gender is a social construct itself. Just like race. I feel as though people have the right to choose their place in the social construct if we're going to allow people to have sexual/gender freedom. It's only fair.

I am a transwoman who wears t-shirts and jeans. I like to play video games, play baseball, and hang out with my friends like I was one of the guys. My female identity has nothing to do with wanting to wear a dress. You can remove the social concept of gender expression and there will still be transgender people.

You know what I want? A female body, because my body is not meant to be male. My brain physically behaves like a female. I looked down and expected to see breasts and a vagina, not chest hairs and a penis. I get depressed because I can't get pregnant, I even get phantom pain down there and feel like I have the correct reproductive organs. I was born in the wrong body, I was raised as a boy and never once was taught transgender subjects in school, and yet I knew since I was 4 years old that I was different and felt like a girl. And during puberty I suffer all matters of inner hell because I saw how my body was changing.

Comparing the two is ridiculous.

I am leaving this thread. I've had enough ignorance over transgender topics for the past week and a half than I ever have in my life. I'm reaching max levels of anger and depression.

 

[collige]

she's of Czech, Swedish and German descent. "fact" in the case of race is based on a long history of societal definition

the logical extension of the argument you're beginning to make is "what do white and black mean, in the end, we're all humans" which alright sure great but despite these distinctions of white and black being meaningless in a biological sense they mean a great deal in this not-post-racial society at large.

Of course, but in order to deny her right to self-identify as black you have to have a definition of what black is to begin with. Since that's pretty much impossible to do in any sort of consistent way, I see no valid reason to say "no, you're not black". At the end of the day, her self-identification won't change how she's treated by society at large, but reinforcing societies' arbitrary racial divisions is something I have no interest in.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Wait why is the plastic bag thing a black thing

 

[Ferrio]

That's a black thing? Everyone in my family does that.

..

Hm.

Thought everyone did it, regardless of race. I don't know what I'll ever do with them all though!

 

[JeTmAn81]

This just in, Racial Dolezal revealed as Iggy Azalea's ghostwriter:

"First thing's first I'm the realest"

 

[Ivan 3414]

Wait why is the plastic bag thing a black thing

Because some dumbass joke on Black Twitter said so

 

[Madness]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sident-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/?tid=sm_fb

This article is all kinds of fucked up. Two of her adopted brothers say she turned their oldest sibling Iziah against them, he now lives with her, and she says he's her son. They also said she turned him racist against white people.

The family stopped talking to her after her interview where she said all that about Larry being her stepfather, beaten with the baboon whip. She was almost 30 when she started this persona. She's divorced from her first black husband Kevin, that was an ex-boyfriend/ex-fiance Maurice who made the rap song for her.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Wait why is the plastic bag thing a black thing

It's not *just* a black thing. But we most certainly do it.

 

[GameGuru59]

I think you sat here, read my post and just ignored everything in it

There are literal known differences between men and women. This is a known fact, you can look this up on the googles. Being trans is not trying to represent yourself as a :female" the way society does, it's an unyielding need to be the person you actually are.

You are literally born transgender. This isn't up for debate, this isnt a boy trying to appear more feminine or a girl wanting to be more masculine, this is literally someone who is trapped in the wrong body and wanting to represent themselves within that. A crossdresser isn't trans, a drag queen isn't trans, a tomboy isn't trans, a trans person is trans.

I'm not ignoring your post, I disagree with the conclusion. Assuming your point is true, why not develop an objective test for being trans? I would think that would be a horrible thing, but according to your point, it's theoretically possible. Should one be developed for gay/lesbian people as well? Why not administer the test at birth to avoid the heartache? If no outside person one can objectively determine whether a person is transgender or gay or anything else, then that makes the situation subjective and not objective to me.

Yes people can be born with certain traits. But our interpretation of those trait (internal and external) is subjective.

Finally, lets imagine for a moment that a person could become gay or transgender post-birth- it would be ridiculous to say that a person couldn't be gay or transgender just because they decided to. There'd be no valid reason to be against it (which is why the court battles are being won). This is my point with transracial people. Lets imagine one could fully alter their race with stem cells in the future. Would you stop them from doing this? What would be your legitimate purpose in doing so?

 

[ISOM]

Because some dumbass joke on Black Twitter said so

That's what it feels like. I don't know why people keep posting "jokes" from twitter anyway.

 

[excelsiorlef]

^ Fuck me that's interesting. Isn't Harlem Renaissance her Twitter handle too?


Just saying that neither transethnic nor transracial are new terms. Some posters are making it sound like they were invented for this woman.

The 'I feel like a different race' stuff didn't start yesterday either so it'll be very difficult to pin down exactly when the terms were co-opted.

You also linked to a transphobic blog with a goal of underminding trans people.

And you posted to a blog post about an article that did not use transethnic or transracial at all that was the spin of the blogger.

A blogger who once said this about trans people

SJWs get it the wrong way around. The mind can be changed. Genitals cannot. They need experimental pharmaceuticals or brain surgery. Like any other mental disease where reality doesn’t conform to the individual (delusions).

BRAIN SURGERY! The concept exists primarily as something to be used by transphobic people to demean and undermine trans men and women.

 

[methane47]

Loosely on physical characteristics, rigidly on societal ones.

I don't know what you're saying about other Rachels (I think you're talking about another one)

Rachel zane

and snipes and stuff but all I am saying is that it seems appropriative for Rachel Dolezal to muddle her background and profess her own blackness when her societal and familial background is white. she's adopting characteristics of black culture without recognizing the privilege from which she's born--in fact, while actively avoiding disclosure of her background. This seems like heavy, disingenuous appropriation to me--though, in the interest of unDolezal-like full disclosure, it's important for me to note that I am white and am not the judge of that. I'm merely trying to clarify why it's an issue and why it's different from transsexuality, in part for myself. anybody tell me to shut up at any time

Indeed she's a terrible person, that said I don't think being a terrible preson precludes you from believing you from having a certain identity

If transethnic truly becomes a thing.. She's would be a terrible progenitor

 

[Derwind]

I feel people are obfuscating sex, gender identity and gender expression.

Don't feel bad though, took me some time to get a picture of it myself, still learning new things each day too.

But if I recall correctly, the likelyhood(probability) of your sex and your gender identity being different can be detected in the womb(I'm not 100% sure of that though).

Race though is entirely a social concept though.

 

[EatinOlives]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sident-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/?tid=sm_fb

This article is all kinds of fucked up. Two of her adopted brothers say she turned their oldest sibling Iziah against them, he now lives with her, and she says he's her son. They also said she turned him racist against white people.

The family stopped talking to her after her interview where she said all that about Larry being her stepfather, beaten with the baboon whip. She was almost 30 when she started this persona. She's divorced from her first black husband Kevin, that was an ex-boyfriend/ex-fiance Maurice who made the rap song for her.

"Bu- bu- but she's not hurting anyone!!!"

 

[Blackage]

NAACP released a statement

http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-statement-on-rachel-dolezal

Baltimore, MD – For 106 years, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People has held a long and proud tradition of receiving support from people of all faiths, races, colors and creeds. NAACP Spokane Washington Branch President Rachel Dolezal is enduring a legal issue with her family, and we respect her privacy in this matter. One’s racial identity is not a qualifying criteria or disqualifying standard for NAACP leadership. The NAACP Alaska-Oregon-Washington State Conference stands behind Ms. Dolezal’s advocacy record. In every corner of this country, the NAACP remains committed to securing political, educational, and economic justice for all people, and we encourage Americans of all stripes to become members and serve as leaders in our organization.

Hate language sent through mail and social media along with credible threats continue to be a serious issue for our units in the Pacific Northwest and across the nation. We take all threats seriously and encourage the FBI and the Department of Justice to fully investigate each occurrence.

 

[Infinite]

It's not *just* a black thing. But we most certainly do it.

I don't. Buy my bags from cosco. I don't see why peeps in here getting up tight about the Twitter jokes tho

 

[SmokyDave]

You also linked to a transphobic blog with a goal of underminding trans people.

And you posted to a blog post about an article that did not use transethnic or transracial at all that was the spin of the blogger.

A blogger who once said this about trans people

Oh for fucks sake I just googled the term and picked the first link that predated 2015 (to prove it isn't a new word). Not everything has to be so complicated. I've no time for blogs or bloggers so you'll have to forgive me for not thoroughly checking the site out.

Here. Have a link from 2004. All I know about this link is that it's from a message board called 'straight dope' and it features the word 'transracial'.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The family stopped talking to her after her interview where she said all that about Larry being her stepfather, beaten with the baboon whip.

Yeah, there we go. Thought that's how that played out.

 

[Slayven]

like this blog post on the situation
On Rachel Dolezal

Great stuff. We got to know the the history.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sident-rachel-dolezal-may-be-white/?tid=sm_fb

This article is all kinds of fucked up. Two of her adopted brothers say she turned their oldest sibling Iziah against them, he now lives with her, and she says he's her son. They also said she turned him racist against white people.

The family stopped talking to her after her interview where she said all that about Larry being her stepfather, beaten with the baboon whip. She was almost 30 when she started this persona. She's divorced from her first black husband Kevin, that was an ex-boyfriend/ex-fiance Maurice who made the rap song for her.

Her brothers sound like they got good heads on their shoulders.

 

[GameGuru59]

You know what I want? A female body, because my body is not meant to be male. My brain physically behaves like a female. I looked down and expected to see breasts and a vagina, not chest hairs and a penis. I get depressed because I can't get pregnant, I even get phantom pain down there and feel like I have the correct reproductive organs. I was born in the wrong body, I was raised as a boy and never once was taught transgender subjects in school, and yet I knew since I was 4 years old that I was different and felt like a girl. And during puberty I suffer all matters of inner hell because I saw how my body was changing.

Comparing the two is ridiculous.

With this I'm kind of wondering why they don't call it trans-sex, gender doesn't seem to have anything to do with your experience, but whatever.

Let's take what you said and apply it to Rachel's experience. She falls in love with black culture, wants to be part of it, wants people to consider her a black person (as she certainly appears to). Why can't she be part of the black ethnicity? Just because we say so? Who are we to define how she should feel about her racial identity? That strikes me as oddly similar to how people disrespect transgender people.

 

[Jarate]

I'm not ignoring your post, I disagree with the conclusion. Assuming your point is true, why not develop an objective test for being trans? I would think that would be a horrible thing, but according to your point, it's theoretically possible. Should one be developed for gay/lesbian people as well? Why not administer the test at birth to avoid the heartache? If no outside person one can objectively determine whether a person is transgender or gay or anything else, then that makes the situation subjective and not objective to me.

Yes people can be born with certain traits. But our interpretation of those trait (internal and external) is subjective.

Finally, lets imagine for a moment that a person could become gay or transgender post-birth- it would be ridiculous to say that a person couldn't be gay or transgender just because they decided to. There'd be no valid reason to be against it (which is why the court battles are being won). This is my point with transracial people. Lets imagine one could fully alter their race with stem cells in the future. Would you stop them from doing this? What would be your legitimate purpose in doing so?

Yes you can "test" to see if your trans, they have done this before, but CT Scans cost a shit ton of money and aren't really worth it when the people theyve been testing have confirmed their results that trans are people in the wrong body. And like I said before, you aren't going to say you are trans, unless you are actively experiencing those very specific things. There are feelings that trans persons have that a poster above mine has that basically confirm if you are trans or not. We do diagnose trans persons in this way.

The situation is not "subjective" because there is literally scientific data proving my point. I guess you could literally ignore the trans persons who are explaining this to you in ways I couldnt even imagine, you could ignore every scientific study on this that affirms my points, but where would that leave us. Ignoring data and evidence is silly, especially when you;re coming from an area that literally has 0 evidence backing it up,

The reason why it's silly to be transethnic is because in this case you are saying the person is choosing to be a part of the black community. That's fine, I have a lot of black friends who would say they are a part of the white community and a ton of white friends who say they would be more comfortable in the black community. But you dont see these people painting their skin color in a certain way (beyond trying to advance in a racist society) and you dont see those same people lie to the people in their community and take up positions of power under false pretenses that theyve experienced the same things that others have. You dont have to be black to be the leader of the NAACP, you don't have to pretend to be black to be a part of the black community.

 

[EatinOlives]

With this I'm kind of wondering why they don't call it trans-sex, gender doesn't seem to have anything to do with your experience, but whatever.

Let's take what you said and apply it to Rachel's experience. She falls in love with black culture, wants to be part of it, wants people to consider her a black person (as she certainly appears to). Why can't she be part of the black ethnicity? Just because we say so? Who are we to define how she should feel about her racial identity? That strikes me as oddly similar to how people disrespect transgender people.

So people are just going to continue repeating the same exact thing ad infinitum each and ever page, or...?

 

[Slayven]

So people are just going to continue repeating the same exact thing ad infinitum each and ever page, or...?

Par for the course for any complex thread