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[Scooter]

American puritanism ruining it for the rest of the world again. Don't misunderstand me, I loved the characters in TLoU but bragging because your characters where sexless shows where the industry is heading and the current environment of intimidation within it.

Naughty Dog is starting to sound pretentious and a little too into themselves and why? Because they're listening to some angry puritans disguised as feminists. Bravo ND, you really changed the world, the Demolition Man future is finally arriving, in order to even touch our genitals we'll need a special permit from now on.

 

[jacobeid]

but it sure did prevent me from playing other games for awhile afterwards.

It's been three months and I still have problems playing games. Nothing sounds appealing after TLoU. I wanted to play bioshock infinite again, got to Finkton and gave up. GTA is keeping me entertained, but man, ND did a number on me.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

ND is starting to ruin great things they got going there lately.

 

[LIMB]

American puritanism ruining it for the rest of the world again. Don't misunderstand me, I loved the characters in TLoU but bragging because your characters where sexless shows where the industry is heading and the current environment of intimidation within it.

Naughty Dog is starting to sound pretentious and a little too into themselves and why? Because they're listening to some angry puritans disguised as feminists. Bravo ND, you really changed the world, the Demolition Man future is finally arriving, in order to even touch our genitals we'll need a special permit.

He's bragging to earn feminist brownie points. TLoU not being sexualized is just common sense for the reasons previously stated. Or hey maybe Neil Druckmann is an idiot who really had to struggle and research how to make a story about a 14 year old girl in a post apocalyptic zombie world not sexy.

 

[Lime]

Is sex on the internet news to you?

Sexualizing an under-age pubescent fictional character to such a degree and amount as to impact Google's automated search suggestions is news to me.

 

[sonicmj1]

Tess? She offers the guard that catches them sex to let them go right after they leave the quarantine zone.

What are you talking about? That you interpreted, "We can make this worth your while," as an offer of sex says more about you than anything else.

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

American puritanism ruining it for the rest of the world again. Don't misunderstand me, I loved the characters in TLoU but bragging because your characters where sexless shows where the industry is heading and the current environment of intimidation within it.

Naughty Dog is starting to sound pretentious and a little too into themselves and why? Because they're listening to some angry puritans disguised as feminists. Bravo ND, you really changed the world, the Demolition Man future is finally arriving, in order to even touch our genitals we'll need a special permit from now on.

 

[LordJim]

Sexualizing an under-age pubescent fictional character to such a degree and amount as to impact Google's automated search suggestions is news to me.

Ellie is not even much, really.
And we live in a reality where a kid's show about ponies would have 200 times sexual content.

 

[Scooter]

Sexualizing an under-age pubescent fictional character to such a degree and amount as to impact Google's automated search suggestions is news to me.

And was there a point to your post other than to try to prove that men are perverted degenerates?

 

[LIMB]

Sexualizing an under-age pubescent fictional character to such a degree and amount as to impact Google's automated search suggestions is news to me.

Welcome to earth.

What are you talking about? That you interpreted, "We can make this worth your while," as an offer of sex says more about you than anything else.

- She says "I can make this worth your while". Subtitles are wrong (many times in the game btw).
- The look she's giving and the way she's saying it.
- They have nothing else to offer the guards.

The only thing is if she was joking or not. At that point we know Tess gets around (when walking in the slums) so it's not out of the question she was being serious. It's not like she knew Ellie would stab the guard so they could get the jump on them.

 

[Scooter]

http://i.imgur.com/KNZGl5v.gif

Is this the first time you witness sarcasm?

 

[AkimbO_Arcana]

And was there a point to your post other than to try to prove that men are perverted degenerates?

Dude, don't take it personal. No one is blaming you for your gender or the way you touch yourself...

Is this the first time you witness sarcasm?

Lately it's getting harder and harder for me around here.

 

[Perkel]

That's absolute rubbish (sorry). Are you telling me that there can't possibly be a film or TV show written by a man that deals with a female character 'honestly'? And visa-versa? It's difficult to explain what makes TLOU so great because this industry is still catering to children with no sense of soul or meaning. People still honestly think that 'mature' means lots of guns, blood everywhere, naked women and lots of swearing. GTA5 is the perfect example of this shallow approach.

Never said that. We are talking here about whole industry not on some single game here and there. One TLOU won't change industry nor 10 or 100. What will change indsutry is when women will be noticeable workforce with ability to create games not bounded by focus testing to male consumer and not being under males direction.

Change doesn't come from shitty journalists and forum rage but from workforce behind those games and consumer themselves accepting other kind of games like where protagonist is a non sexualized woman.

If those two things won't change there will be always majority of games that will cater to stereotypical male giving them sexy babes or giving them role of man in game.

Men can create incredible games with women in it but that doesn't change a fact that for every one fantastic game created from women perspective there is 10 other fantastic games that are created from male perspective.

 

[Winterfang]

American puritanism ruining it for the rest of the world again. Don't misunderstand me, I loved the characters in TLoU but bragging because your characters where sexless shows where the industry is heading and the current environment of intimidation within it.

Naughty Dog is starting to sound pretentious and a little too into themselves and why? Because they're listening to some angry puritans disguised as feminists. Bravo ND, you really changed the way world, the Demolition Man future is finally arriving, in order to even touch our genitals we'll need a special permit from now on.

LOL WHAT?

 

[sonicmj1]

Welcome to earth.



- She says "I can make this worth your while". Subtitles are wrong (many times in the game btw).
- The look she's giving and the way she's saying it.
- They have nothing else to offer the guards.

The only thing is if she was joking or not. At that point we know Tess gets around (when walking in the slums) so it's not out of the question she was being serious. It's not like she knew Ellie would stab the guard so they could get the jump on them.

They just came into a shit-ton of ration tickets shortly before the game began. I'm pretty sure those are how everyone eats. Sexual favors don't even make sense in that situation, considering his female partner would have to be compensated as well.

 

[Scooter]

Dude, don't take it personal. No one is blaming you for your gender or the way you touch yourself...

So you can't think of another reason either. You didn't have to confirm it, the poster's silence was enough proof.

 

[astroturfing]

i disliked Ellie, it seemed too much like a calculated effort.. emotionally manipulative etc. looks like i was right, they had an agenda with her. blah. really lame.

game would have been much better with just Joel anyway, no immersion breaking idiotic witty banter from Ellie (a joke book, really?!) or her running right into enemies and them not even noticing.

one of the best games this gen, but Ellie mostly sucked IMO. i only liked her when she helped in combat, which was pretty cool at times.

 

[Trickster]

If there's one thing that game did right. It was the story and the characters in the game.

 

[Nathan_Drake]

It is a great game with well thought out characters. My only complaint was everytime she cussed it seemed forced and unnatural. It seemed placed to make her edgy but I thought it sounded out of place most times. And I love ND but come on we have all played UC. My avatar is Chloe's ass because it should have one a technical Oscar. If they start making the UC girls nonsexual then Drake better stop looking like a Calvin Klein model.

 

[Goldmund]

Feminism and Puritanism are as closely linked as the theory of evolution and intelligent design.

 

[Scooter]

Feminism and Puritanism are as closely linked as the theory of evolution and intelligent design.

Yet in USA they're happily married and have a kid called "anything sexual equals rape culture".

 

[Arsenic]

A lot of posts here are replies to to something more general when he's clearly talking about the design of a single character. Ellie was amazing, no doubt, and I see lots of reasons ND be proud of her character.

In my opinion, I think The Boss was a far more influential character. If the industry didn't change after her existence, I don't think it ever will.

Didn't they say TLoU sold waaaaay more than they expected? How were you going to change the industry when you didn't even expect a lot of people to play/see it? Seems like they're just saying things just to say things at this point.

So popularity is the only means to changing an industry? Creating a respectful character can influence other developers as well, or did you not think of that? Sounds like you're just saying things just to say things.

I see Ellie in the same vein as Ashly from RE4 but a little more independent. I'm not trying to talk down on the devs, but that kind of comment sounds a little bit arrogant here. If he really believed this, they would've made her the lead character rather than having her hide behind some dude.

Sounds like you haven't played the game.

I came in expecting to see something about game design or something, but nope, just gender stuff. The stuff that really matters.

Yes it is important, and has lots to do with the game design.

Just release the remastered 1080p version on ps4, couldnt play t he ps3 version because it was ugly mess.

I'm curious, what games DO you play then?

 

[kick51]

American puritanism ruining it for the rest of the world again. Don't misunderstand me, I loved the characters in TLoU but bragging because your characters where sexless shows where the industry is heading and the current environment of intimidation within it.

Naughty Dog is starting to sound pretentious and a little too into themselves and why? Because they're listening to some angry puritans disguised as feminists. Bravo ND, you really changed the world, the Demolition Man future is finally arriving, in order to even touch our genitals we'll need a special permit from now on.

they're coming for your football next, bro

 

[Arsenic]

It is a great game with well thought out characters. My only complaint was everytime she cussed it seemed forced and unnatural. It seemed placed to make her edgy but I thought it sounded out of place most times. And I love ND but come on we have all played UC. My avatar is Chloe's ass because it should have one a technical Oscar. If they start making the UC girls nonsexual then Drake better stop looking like a Calvin Klein model.

To me she represented the typical teenage girl or boy, cursing without good reasons to. I doubt they wanted to make her edgy, she simply had the characteristics of a kid a lot of times. Except, of course, the end of the winter season....

 

[FyreWulff]

It is a great game with well thought out characters. My only complaint was everytime she cussed it seemed forced and unnatural

Sounds like a teenager then

 

[jacksepticeye]

It won't change shit

Ellie was a fantastic character but did anyone else feel she was a little forced at times? Some of her swearing felt a litle ham fisted. Joel on the other hand was one of the most believable characters I've ever seen

 

[Elway7Sharpe84]

Couldn't agree more, can't believe sex is starting to become stigmatized in the gaming industry because of a few loud voices. What the hell?

Yeah hopefully it's just a loud minority. I love my fan service in games (as long as it isn't overdone)

 

[LastNac]

Yet in USA they're happily married and have a kid called "anything sexual equals rape culture".

What?

 

[Ninjimbo]

Ellie was a great character, so they succeeded in that respect.

 

[terribletwo]

Yet in USA they're happily married and have a kid called "anything sexual equals rape culture".

Is this sarcasm again or...

 

[AlphaDump]

this thread is the equivalent of a bunch of people showing up to a field blind folded and just start swinging at eachother.

ellie's character was excellent, but it wont change the industry. the level of story telling however, definitely raised the bar.

they could really pave way by reintroducing ellie in TLOU2 as the lead in a new gen.

also, tess's character i thought was incredible and deserves to be mentioned, and it seems to be forgotten in a lot of these conversations. that or people havent played it..

 

[DedValve]

This thread is more depressing than the game itself.

 

[Arsenic]

It won't change shit

Ellie was a fantastic character but did anyone else feel she was a little forced at times? Some of her swearing felt a litle ham fisted. Joel on the other hand was one of the most believable characters I've ever seen

She's a teen with uncontrollable emotions who's been around nothing but adults. Noticed her change of character when she was around that one little kid?

 

[Prince Vultan]

"Non-sexualised" eh?

Didn't seem to put David off any

Seriously though... sad to see another Naughty Dog thread derailed by warrior agendas. Try hard, fail hard I guess

 

[Scooter]

Is this sarcasm again or...

No it's the truth. Puritanism and feminism are intertwined in USA. I don't know how American feminists managed that especially considering their pretty admirable history but from almost almost everything you read on the internet lately you get the vibe that they consider anything sexual as degrading for women. They're so obsessed with regulating sex in the media that they may as well start agreeing with republicans on the issue.

 

[GreatestHits]

Just wanted to say TLoU is an excellent game and not nearly as pretentious as the game's creators now conspire to make it sound.

Thank you, because that comment turned me off. I will keep an open mind when I finally play that game

 

[Artex]

They wanted to create a cool new non-sexualized female character but that was hard so instead they just copied Ellen Page.

Comparing Ellie's character to Ellen Page should be bannable at this point. Its a troll argument that insinuates that the person saying it has never actually played the game.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

ND is starting to ruin great things they got going there lately.

god forbid a content creator gets ambitious about their work.

I'll never understand some people's obsession with humility.

 

[Nairume]

No it's the truth. Puritanism and feminism are intertwined in USA. I don't know how American feminists managed that especially considering their pretty admirable history but from almost almost everything you read on the internet lately you get the vibe that they consider anything sexual as degrading for women. They're so obsessed with regulating sex in the media that they may as well start agreeing with republicans on the issue.

Care to share your backing for this all? If you've found historical evidence supporting this, I'm sure you may have just opened up an entirely new subject that is ripe for selling books to a massive audience.

Spoiler

The audience would be reddit.

 

[suzu]

Obviously stuff isn't going to change quickly in the industry, but I am glad that ND is trying to raise the bar.

 

[ksdixon]

i feel like if they wanted to really change the industry they would have given us the option

Spoiler

of having Joel leave Ellie with the fireflies to be disected to extract the cure

or let us choose weather or not

Spoiler

to kill her if she turned infected during their walk through the forest afterwards

.

 

[Superflat]

Well... not surprised how this thread ended up.

i feel like if they wanted to really change the industry they would have given us the option

Spoiler

of having Joel leave Ellie with the fireflies to be disected to extract the cure

or let us choose weather or not

Spoiler

to kill her if she turned infected during their walk through the forest afterwards

.

I don't understand how that would inspire change, especially in the way Neil was saying.

 

[Scooter]

Care to share your backing for this all? If you've found historical evidence supporting this, I'm sure you may have just opened up an entirely new subject that is ripe for selling books to a massive audience.

Spoiler

The audience would be reddit.

You misunderstand, I said their history is admirable, it's nowadays that they've lost their minds.

 

[IcyRhythms]

I don't think that's fair.

For one, the effects of The Last of Us wouldn't be seen for many years yet, so you're jumping the gun in that regard. Honestly I felt it was so superlative in every aspect that it'd be hard for such an experience not to rub off on those thousands of game creators out there.

If your profession is creating interactive entertainment and you take nothing from The Last of Us into your own work, then, in my opinion, you aren't giving your work enough thought. There's so much that the game gets right.

I felt quite similarly about Resident Evil 4, which, of course, changed the following generation dramatically.

Aren't you jumping the gun in feeling the effects of TLoU won't be seen for many years? It's a big claim in any way you look at it.

 

[razoftblend]

Sounds like you haven't played the game.

Sounds like you did't understand my comment. People just qouted my coment accused me of calling Elie a "damsel in distress." I said that Ellie is more independent, and that's not even how I'm comparing them. I explain that on a later comment. Of course, people fail to read that and only read the pots that are talking down on ND's game.

 

[Elway7Sharpe84]

No it's the truth. Puritanism and feminism are intertwined in USA. I don't know how American feminists managed that especially considering their pretty admirable history but from almost almost everything you read on the internet lately you get the vibe that they consider anything sexual as degrading for women. They're so obsessed with regulating sex in the media that they may as well start agreeing with republicans on the issue.

Yep.

Porn is wrong because it sexualizes and degrades women.

Stripping is wrong because it sexualizes and degrades women.

Fan service (for men) in games and anime is wrong because it sexualizes and degrades women.

Ads featuring women in half naked/provocative poses is wrong because it sexualizes and degrades women.

Yet no one bats an eye at Yaoi/bishounen anime, gigolos, Twilight/50 shades of grey type media. (both of which are filled with horrible tropes against women, yet they ignore all of it since it's appealing to them)

No one bats an eye at Fenris and Zevran (dragon age), Vamp and Raiden. (MGS) All who were made for female fans. And those were just examples, there are plenty of more similar characters out there.

Seems like they want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[entremet]

It's fucking creepy to think that despite the design and writing of Ellie's character, a significant amount of people are still sexualizing her:

(I think this screen capture is from back in June when the game released. Dunno if it still holds up)

Welcome to the Internet!

 

[sublimit]

But who's going to change the industry from all those developers who think they are making movies instead of games?

 

[Nairume]

You misunderstand, I said their history is admirable, it's nowadays that they've lost their minds.

Well either you've been able to document a transition between the groups of yesteryear and today or perhaps you may have discovered an entirely new group in the same family as both the feminists and puritans you of which you speak.

In the manner of good anthropologists, let us give a name to this new group so that we may be able to observe and study them.

I suggest strawwomen.

 

[K.Sabot]

To me, TLoU felt like the video game equivalent of Oscar Bait.

Didn't click with me on a mechanics level, only reason I finished it was the story, which was merely okay.

To be more concise and relevant, the OP's quote reinforces my above statement (though I understand if people disagree).