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[drakesfortune]

I never noticed any game on the Gamecube that looked like Mario Galaxy. Perhaps you can help me find it. Not saying that the Wii system is going to improve leaps and bounds, but to suggest that it won't be improved when EAD Tokyo was like, "Hey, the damn thing can do this? Cool." seems a bit silly.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying that Wii games don't look better than GameCube games, they do, not a ton better mind you, but they look noticeably better. I'm saying that the Wii is essentially a souped up GameCube, with the same architecture, just more powerful. So developers don't need to work as hard to get games going on the cube because most devs already have built engines for the cube and scaling them up to tap into the extra HP in the Wii isn't difficult. On 360 and PS3 with multiple processors, tapping that potential power is much more difficult, especially because they need new engines to harness it. The Cube/Wii engine has been harnessed already. I think people are fooling themselves if they think they are going to get games that look significantly better than Galaxy and the other stuff that's already out there.

 

[j-wood]

I simply do not understand all the vsync issues brought up by you guys. I played the game in 720p on a 32 inch HDTV and had no screen tearing the entire time I played.

 

[Private Hoffman]

There was screen tearing, but honestly I got used to it and never noticed it after a while.

It's not all that bad. I hope it gets fixed for the sequel though, for sure.

I can't wait to see how good Uncharted 2 looks....ND are technical wizards. I sure hope they're sharing that tech with Santa Monica for God of War 3!

 

[thuway]

There was screen tearing, but honestly I got used to it and never noticed it after a while.

It's not all that bad. I hope it gets fixed for the sequel though, for sure.

I can't wait to see how good Uncharted 2 looks....ND are technical wizards. I sure hope they're sharing that tech with Santa Monica for God of War 3!

I hope they eventually let Insomniac and Zipper in on some of the action. Insomniac damn well needs it.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

There was screen tearing, but honestly I got used to it and never noticed it after a while.

It's not all that bad. I hope it gets fixed for the sequel though, for sure.

I can't wait to see how good Uncharted 2 looks....ND are technical wizards. I sure hope they're sharing that tech with Santa Monica for God of War 3!

They definitely are even though I am sure Santa Monica doesn't need to much help they are brilliant
in their own right.

The Vsync complaints are valid but I wish Amys interview with 1up had been payed attention to more.
She explained that because of how much more complex the PS3 was to develop for almost a year of
work they had spent in pre-production for their engine was completely useless so they were a year
behind and had to build almost everything from scratch.

They were very aware of the V-Sync issues but just did not have the time to refine them. Now with a firm
engine in place a production pipeline that gives them the time they originally didnt have people should be
prepared to be absolutely blown away by what they come up with next.

I hope they eventually let Insomniac and Zipper in on some of the action. Insomniac damn well needs it.

I dont think they need it. Insomniac just has such a insane turn around time that they dont get to spend the
kind of time I am sure they would want to. That being said every Insomniac game released has always
been a graphical splendor.

When R2 is fully polished I think a lot of people are going to be amazed.

 

[drakesfortune]

I hope they eventually let Insomniac and Zipper in on some of the action. Insomniac damn well needs it.

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

 

[thuway]

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

I'm not saying Insomniac are bad devs, but I'm saying, since they develop a game a year- they could benefit from borrowed tech.

 

[Forsete]

Eh, what's the point of recording them if you can do it realtime !

The game loads in the background of the video. They could have the videos done in real time but then you would be greeted by a LOADING screen, no thx.

 

[duk]

That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.

no it's not admit it

 

[Firewire]

I hope they eventually let Insomniac and Zipper in on some of the action. Insomniac damn well needs it.

jsslappingabitch.gif

 

[DJ Sl4m]

To quote Mina here...

That’s why we think we’re probably only using 30 or 40 per cent of the power of the PS3 right now, and there’s this great, untapped potential.

Understand the point of the quote.
The "we're probably" part shows that they are not really sure & have no real means of knowing for sure at this point.

Learning & sharing tricks with other studios is leading to better more efficient gains.

It's a PR guesstimate, but is it over the top ? sure, but it's also something to talk about until their next game is released and starts the hype for it Now with this article.

Clever.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I didn't notice screen tearing either, it probably depended on the refresh rate of your screen.

The game could do with some more detialed skin textures though. The character models were looking a little plastic-ish.

 

[i hate bees]

They haven't delivered? Their first game on the PS3 blended platforming with melee and shooting seamlessly in huge seamless streaming environments while technically is still the most impressive game on the console.

My point was that they should SHOW their 60-70% improvements instead of walking around beating their chests, because it means nothing to the consumer and nothing to the world of development - it's purely forum flame bait and a ridiculous statement - regardless of how competent the developer is

.

Um...what?

Naughty Dog is considering one of the best if not the best parallel coders in the business. Valve's very own Gabe Newell who heavily dislikes such a multiprocessor approach said he thinks Naughty Dog is probably best dev team for this stuff. And look at Carmack who again like Valve doesn't really like multi-processor set-ups to begin with, he to was praising the fact they got a coder that was once from Naughty Dog on their team.

And shut up until they're ready to deliver the goods....seriously? What? They released Uncharted already, easily one of the best looking consoles games on the market.

I'm fully aware Uncharted is gorgeous and a very impressive technical benchmark, that's not a free pass for Naughty Dog to talk nonsense.

 

[todahawk]

DAMN, i still have to beat the uncharted demo, let alone buy the full game.
I have a huge backlog to get through before fallout 3, killzone2 and resident evil 5.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

My point was that they should SHOW their 60-70% improvements instead of walking around beating their chests, because it means nothing to the consumer and nothing to the world of development - it's purely forum flame bait and a ridiculous statement - regardless of how competent the developer is

It also begins free publicity and starts the hype train for their next project, does it not ?

That's business...

 

[proposition]

Why were they wasting so much of the power of the console. Talk about lazy devs.

Ergh, claims like this are so retarded.

 

[drakesfortune]

no it's not admit it

Yeah, you're right. a guy who's always been willing to compromise to get things done, and a guy who was given an out from years of torture because of who his dad was, and didn't accept the out, and stayed in that torture hell to help his buddies is crazy awesome in the partisan hack world of Washington, where political self preservation all to often beats out the national interest in the minds of our elected officials.

 

[thuway]

Whoa whoa... I didn't mean to say Insomniac make bad looking game or are subpar devs. I was just trying to say that they could also benefit from the insane tech that Naughty Dog has put together. Nothing more.

 

[andycapps]

Why were they wasting so much of the power of the console. Talk about lazy devs.

Ergh, claims like this are so retarded.

Are you being serious? Naughty Dog lazy devs? The same ones that wrote their own programming language for the PS2?

I'm fully aware Uncharted is gorgeous and a very impressive technical benchmark, that's not a free pass for Naughty Dog to talk nonsense.

It's not really nonsense. It's common sense that games that come out at the beginning of a console's lifecycle do not look as good as they do at the end. It's obviously because they're able to tap into the console more as the cycle goes on and they're more and more familiar with the hardware. Didn't Cliffy B say the same thing about GoW?

 

[duk]

Yeah, you're right. a guy who's always been willing to compromise to get things done, and a guy who was given an out from years of torture because of who his dad was, and didn't accept the out, and stayed in that torture hell to help his buddies is crazy awesome in the partisan hack world of Washington, where political self preservation all to often beats out the national interest in the minds of our elected officials.

let's not derail the thread, it was a joke, lighten up

 

[McLovin]

I simply do not understand all the vsync issues brought up by you guys. I played the game in 720p on a 32 inch HDTV and had no screen tearing the entire time I played.

You have to actively look for it.. if you just play the game for fun you won't notice it :/

Why were they wasting so much of the power of the console. Talk about lazy devs.

Ergh, claims like this are so retarded.

Naughty Dog? .....Lazy devs?! Blasphemy!

 

[ElFly]

Are you being serious? Naughty Dog lazy devs? The same ones that wrote their own programming language for the PS2?

Lisp has existed since 1958...

 

[Vinci]

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying that Wii games don't look better than GameCube games, they do, not a ton better mind you, but they look noticeably better. I'm saying that the Wii is essentially a souped up GameCube, with the same architecture, just more powerful. So developers don't need to work as hard to get games going on the cube because most devs already have built engines for the cube and scaling them up to tap into the extra HP in the Wii isn't difficult. On 360 and PS3 with multiple processors, tapping that potential power is much more difficult, especially because they need new engines to harness it. The Cube/Wii engine has been harnessed already.

Okay. Misunderstanding then. I can agree with this.

I think people are fooling themselves if they think they are going to get games that look significantly better than Galaxy and the other stuff that's already out there.

I think there's bound to be a RE4 moment for the Wii, where you're like, "How the hell are they doing that on this system?!" - but when that will come and what that will be, I've no clue. Hell, at this point, I'd be happy if Wii games looked half as good as Galaxy.

 

[Doubledex]

Never said it was a technical problem. Its just that everything looks like fucking plastic. I'm sure that this is just the style of the game and exactly what ND was shooting for, though. I'm just not the biggest fan of the game's visual style is all. I mean, the game looks fantastic, don't get me wrong...I just don't think it's the visual apex of this gen that most folks make it out to be.

Uhm, ...no, it looks wet. That's it! Does a wet stone look like plastic for you?

Why were they wasting so much of the power of the console. Talk about lazy devs.

Ergh, claims like this are so retarded.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol ...... just wow.

 

[Ranger X]

That kind of comment from an exclusive dev is so 90s...

Guess what in the whole history of gaming, a first-gen game from a talented has never really been outdated by the late games that supposedly use all "the power" of the console.

Just look at Jak And Daxter on PS2... compare this to the likes of Jak3 or something. In the time they would tell you "oh, Jak use like 20% of the PS2" but 5 years later, games are looking slightly better and Jak isn't outdated a bit. The same thing will happen with Uncharted.

 

[andycapps]

Lisp has existed since 1958...

GOAL hasn't.

Gavin used Allegro CL to create a programming language called "GOAL" (Game Oriented Assembly Lisp), which he designed specifically for the development of Naughty Dog’s games. Using this custom dialect whose compiler and development environment was written in Allegro CL, he and his team were able to produce hundreds of different game objects with sophisticated real-time behavior and animation, and more realistic graphics. "The behaviors are faster to develop, and more compact than an equivalent C program, allowing for rapid prototyping and experimentation." says Gavin.

 

[Firewire]

That kind of comment from an exclusive dev is so 90s...

Guess what in the whole history of gaming, a first-gen game from a talented has never really been outdated by the late games that supposedly use all "the power" of the console.

Just look at Jak And Daxter on PS2... compare this to the likes of Jak3 or something. In the time they would tell you "oh, Jak use like 20% of the PS2" but 5 years later, games are looking slightly better and Jak isn't outdated a bit. The same thing will happen with Uncharted.

don't be hating!

 

[Ranger X]

don't be hating!

I'm more realistic than hating. I love Naughty Dog. I think they are very talented. It's just that they partake in the good old PR bull.

 

[satriales]

Thi is old news, they said Uncharted was using 30% back in November last year:

PSU: The core engine for Drake's Fortune was built from the ground up. How does the engine itself come to utilize and take advantage of the PlayStation 3's core architecture and features?
Balestra: The main thing about the PlayStation 3 is the Cell processor and more specifically the SPU's. We are only using 30 percent of the power of the SPU's in Uncharted. We've been architecting a lot of our systems around this and we were able to take full advantage of that power. A big part of our systems is running on SPU's: scene bucketing, particles, physics, collision, animation, water simulation, mesh processing, path finding, etc. For our engine, the cool thing about having the SPU's is the fact we can minimize what we send to the RSX (the graphic chip), it allows us to reject unnecessary information and get the RSX to be very efficient.

http://ps3.psu.com/PSU-talks-Uncharted-with-Naughty-Dog-Co-Vice-President--a0001851-p0.php

 

[kaching]

It's just that they partake in the good old PR bull.

He's participating in an interview. The whole thing is a PR exercise. Why single out a single quote as if that's the only thing that's PR about this?

 

[Rapping Granny]

let's not derail the thread, it was a joke, lighten up

He can't he has a John Mcain avatar.

 

[Mr. Durden]

I don't get these kind of statements. The only reaction you'll get is "wtf, start using the other 60-70% for fuck sake", and that's the reaction you should expect.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I would like to know how he came about getting those 30-40% numbers. My guess is it was more like he pulled them out of his ass.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

just another day at gaf I see.

 

[hauton]

I would like to know how he came about getting those 30-40% numbers. My guess is it was more like he pulled them out of his ass.

Well I'll take your word for it over theirs.

 

[antiloop]

I use 5% of my brain every time I enter this thread.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I would like to know how he came about getting those 30-40% numbers. My guess is it was more like he pulled them out of his ass.

They're probably basing it on the Edge tools performance analyzer. When some PS3 games are being demoed you can see it on screen (GT5P had it as well as the old The Getaway demo).

 

[FtsH]

then try 60 or 80 per cent for your next game please.

 

[deepbrown]

Eh, what's the point of recording them if you can do it realtime !

To cover up loading. Would have thought you'd have known that snoopy. (ps. a couple are realtime)

just another day at gaf I see.

Bruce! Add me on PS3 if you haven't. psn: deepbrown

 

[deepbrown]

That kind of comment from an exclusive dev is so 90s...

Guess what in the whole history of gaming, a first-gen game from a talented has never really been outdated by the late games that supposedly use all "the power" of the console.

Just look at Jak And Daxter on PS2... compare this to the likes of Jak3 or something. In the time they would tell you "oh, Jak use like 20% of the PS2" but 5 years later, games are looking slightly better and Jak isn't outdated a bit. The same thing will happen with Uncharted.

Wut? Shadow of the Collossus doesn't look outdated...but Uncharted trumps it in the graphics department. Whether you think something looks "outdated" or not, has little to do with how good a game looks, or performs technically.

We do...

Go ND.

We only use 10-15% of our brains (apparently)

 

[frankthurk]

Whoa whoa... I didn't mean to say Insomniac make bad looking game or are subpar devs. I was just trying to say that they could also benefit from the insane tech that Naughty Dog has put together. Nothing more.

Insomniac damn well needs it.

Damn well needs it != could also benefit... stop backpedaling.

 

[deepbrown]

Damn well needs it != could also benefit... stop backpedaling.

ND could do with Insomniac's glass tech

 

[HUELEN10]

Use some of that 60-70% for *VSYNC* next time.

Wait, Uncharted has screen tearing?

And I was gonna buy it too..... Shit.

I guess I will have to borrow it first and see for myself.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I'm hoping for:

- No more monsters in the sequel.

-Besides updated graphics, I want more puzzles that makes you think, and more platforming.

-I want ND to go beyond Uncharted's level designs and create some awesome looking environments.

-As for the animation, maybe Drake can grab his arm or limp if he's really hurt. I remember the GI article where they were shown drake shaking while cocking a shotgun. Seems like it was left out. Hopefully they can add more details like that in the sequel.

-More CQC. Also, add some takedowns that involves the environment. Example would be like in Splinter Cell where Sam is hiding around a corner of a wall and enemy walks by. Sam grabs him, throws him against the wall and knocks him out.

 

[Madman]

Why did you have to bump this Doubledex...

 

[Lord Error]

Guess what in the whole history of gaming, a first-gen game from a talented has never really been outdated by the late games that supposedly use all "the power" of the console.

Just look at Jak And Daxter on PS2... compare this to the likes of Jak3 or something. In the time they would tell you "oh, Jak use like 20% of the PS2" but 5 years later, games are looking slightly better and Jak isn't outdated a bit.

My sarcasm detector must be broken today because what you wrote above sounded serious. Of all the games to mention, Jak 3 completely outclassed J&D visually. Just the fact alone that it's rendering 2x higher resolution at the same framerate makes it so. IIRC it had 2x more polygons for in-game graphics and 5-6x more polys for cutscene characters, cloth physics, streamed PCM music instead of midi music... You have improvements of not 50%, but 500% for some very visible things - what more do you want from the same exact platform and same exact developer? I can think probably 5 more examples ofhand where later games in the series completely destroyed early entries, even with talented devs (Ridge Racer or Tekken series on PS1?)

 

[i hate bees]

It's not really nonsense. It's common sense that games that come out at the beginning of a console's lifecycle do not look as good as they do at the end. It's obviously because they're able to tap into the console more as the cycle goes on and they're more and more familiar with the hardware. Didn't Cliffy B say the same thing about GoW?

Yes it is, and no matter who says it it's a stupid comment. Of course developers will gain better performance through experience, however to give numbers is retarded - what are they trying to say here? that they'll be able to more than double the amount of models onscreen? double the amount of processes running? both? it's a stupid comment, and no matter who it comes from it's entirely meaningless.

 

[kaching]

I don't get these kind of statements. The only reaction you'll get is "wtf, start using the other 60-70% for fuck sake", and that's the reaction you should expect.

And you don't think they're working towards that?

 

[deepbrown]

I'm hoping for:

- No more monsters in the sequel.

-Besides updated graphics, I want more puzzles that makes you think, and more platforming.

-I want ND to go beyond Uncharted's level designs and create some awesome looking environments.

-As for the animation, maybe Drake can grab his arm or limp if he's really hurt. I remember the GI article where they were shown drake shaking while cocking a shotgun. Seems like it was left out. Hopefully they can add more details like that in the sequel.

-More CQC. Also, add some takedowns that involves the environment. Example would be like in Splinter Cell where Sam is hiding around a corner of a wall and enemy walks by. Sam grabs him, throws him against the wall and knocks him out.

There's CQC that involves the environemtn already...punching into walls, throwing over tables etc etc. It's in there. And Drake does shake when he's scared/been shot.

 

[Fenderputty]

We only use 10-15% of our brains (apparently)

Actually I heard that's false. We actually use the entire brain, but not all at once.