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NeoGAF Do My Homework Please: OBLIVION Shivering Isles

K

KyotoMecca

Member
Hi guys

Once again the combination of too much work and undying wish to serve the game community has me reaching out to the fans..... blah blah blah, I just need some questions for an interview tomorrow please...

The interview is with Pete Hines from Bethesda and it's all about The Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles, the expansion to last year's astounding RPG. This follow-up is currently slated for both PC and Xbox 360.

I'll get play time beforhand but I'd like to make our interview smart and relevant, so please can you note down stuff you would like to ask about this game or the series? GAF will of course get credit for its help.

Useful links:
Gamespot game page
http://gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/elderscrollsivshiveringisles/index.html
Official 10k-post Oblivion thread
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88649&page=219
Shivering Isles:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133637

Also it might sound strange to be asking about editorial choices here but do you guys think it is worth separately checking out the PS3 version of Oblivion? As in actually taking a separate day out to go and play it? Is there anything anyone is expecting from it that may distinguish it from last year's versions of the original?

Thanks guys
 
Here is what I would like to know; there are conflicting reports around the net.. ive seen some that say shivering isles couldnt be included on the ps3 due to technical limitations, yet ive seen some places saying that the ps3 version has better textures, load times, draw distance, etc, surely these are conflicting.. so is the lack of PS3 shivering isles due to technical limitations, not enough details about PSN.. or just the fact that they can make more money by selling it seperately at a later date?
 
painey said:
Here is what I would like to know; there are conflicting reports around the net.. ive seen some that say shivering isles couldnt be included on the ps3 due to technical limitations, yet ive seen some places saying that the ps3 version has better textures, load times, draw distance, etc, surely these are conflicting.. so is the lack of PS3 shivering isles due to technical limitations, not enough details about PSN.. or just the fact that they can make more money by selling it seperately at a later date?
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It wasn't Shivering Isles that was the problem, and Hines said in an interview that it will be out on PS3 in '2007'.
 
painey said:
Here is what I would like to know; there are conflicting reports around the net.. ive seen some that say shivering isles couldnt be included on the ps3 due to technical limitations, yet ive seen some places saying that the ps3 version has better textures, load times, draw distance, etc, surely these are conflicting.. so is the lack of PS3 shivering isles due to technical limitations, not enough details about PSN.. or just the fact that they can make more money by selling it seperately at a later date?
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They've already talked about this. No need to cover old territory. They didn't include the downloadable content like the Orrary and Wizard's Tower because it wouldn't make sense to recieve them at the beginning of the game. That content wasn't seemless like Nights of the Nine was and it'd be kind of bizarre if you never played the game before and the first thing that pops up when you start is a notice telling you about some tower in the mountains or a secret bandit cave.
 
I would like some really indepth info on how they've looked at the Playstation store...like really an honest answer from them on whether or not they've looked at it and whether or not they think they can do anything with it.

But that's really kind of immaterial to shivering isles.

Ask them what their inspirations were for the art design. It looks pretty different from the rest of Oblivion, I think.
 
Ask them if Shivering Isles will really be fantastically awesome, or just wonderfully outstanding. Other question could include: 'Bethesda - great or greatest developer out there?' and 'Why do you guys rock so much?'.

P.S.: tell him I want an autograph
 
Ask them if they have any plans to release a Game of the Year Edition of Oblivion with all the extra content on the disc
 
Man I miss the designs in Morrowind. It was like a completely alien world instead of the European renaissance fair of Oblivion.

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Hitler Stole My Potato said:
Man I miss the designs in Morrowind. It was like a completely alien world instead of the European renaissance fair of Oblivion.

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Yep, but that's part of what makes this expansion so awesome. A return to form in greater detail :D
 
Here's a couple pretty good ones, at least for the PC community. Unsure if they've been previously covered elsewhere though:

Has the mod scene had an effect on development of the expansion at all? For example, a number of mods made changes and improvements to the UI which would be welcome official additions in the eyes of many (at least on the PC)...

Similarly, will the expansion have any notable effects on mod development? Will mods that worked on Oblivion still work on Shivering Isles, or will changes be necessary? Does the expansion feature any changes to the TES Construction Set?
 
Do they have any plan to use this expansion pack to ALSO FIX/patch the localization issues (punctuation, grammar, and syntax issues) present in Oblivion releases in non English speaking territories (PC AND Xbox 360 versions)?

Please Kyoto, no one, not even the smallest publication, ever brought up the localization issues with Oblivion to Bethesda and none of their publishers (Take2/2K Games and Ubisoft) even acknowledges the issue, please do bring this issue up.
 
ElyrionX said:
Ask them whether the Shivering Isles will feature a world as dead and life-less as that found in Oblivion.
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Unless you live in the rain forest or a zoo I dont know how you could think Oblivion was lifeless.
 
Ask how they designed this expansion for different characters. In the main game, many quests lend themselves to certain play styles, in particular the factions. Will a sneaky character have the opportunity to be sneaky, a villainous bastard have opportunities to be a bastard, etc.
 
Ghost said:
Unless you live in the rain forest or a zoo I dont know how you could think Oblivion was lifeless.
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Sure, they had that whole system going where citizens did different things at different times. It was overhyped, IMO, because it didn't exactly result in a world that had more life, which is something Bethesda failed to grasp.

What I mean when I said Oblivion is lifeless is the fact that when you walk into the city's Marketplace, you see rows upon rows upon rows of shops. But you only see one or two citizens walking the streets. The streets are so damn quiet except for the occasional chat between two wandering citizens. It's the same for all the small towns. It's an endless concrete jungle with barely any citizens and barely any banter at all.

Just take a look at Baldur's Gate 2's Waukeen Promenade, which is essentially the BG2 counterpart to Oblivion's Marketplace. That area had so many people walking around and the sounds were very atmospheric and the entire area sounded like it was a real marketplace.
 
Thanks, keep them coming...

Also if people have a problem with the game or parts of it / its predecessors, it would be good if this could be used to form a construvtive question rather than just taking a sarcy dig at them Eg, "dead and lifeless as Olivion" - why?

Also, can you elaborate on the werewolves question pls?
 
This isn't really a question, I'd just like to say I really like the art style and direction that they're taking with Shivering Isles. It's one of the things that turned me off from Oblivion. Everything looked dull and dry in that game.
 
Will there be more expansion pack coming? If so how could there make it happen on consoles.

No-brainer question, when can we expect ES V?

Some quest is not so convenient if you are a vampire, i.e. you have to go out during the day and such, will there be more of those in Shivering Isle?
 
I'd like to know how he feels about the fans' negative response to the level scaling system and why they didn't feel the various problems that arise were serious enough to fix (beating the arena at level 1, common bandits with daedric gear, forcing archers to poison their arrows just to keep up with the levelling curve, etc...).

Relating to that, does he think the level scaling diminishes the desire to explore given the player will only ever face the same level of enemy and find the same level of random loot in every dungeon?

I'd also like to hear whether or not he feels they made too many concessions to accessibility in Oblivion, like having factions that have no relation to each other so you can play them all with one character (i.e. no hard decisions have to be made).
 
Okay, one more. They've talked about new ingredients and new spells. Are there new effects in the mix, or just new combinations of things we saw in the parent game?
 
The level scaling made the game more accessible, but it took a lot of the fun out of it for me.

In Morrowind, I stepped right off the boat and stole some sweet shit and ran as fast as I could. I remember hiding out in the mountains and stuff and running from guards whenever I would see one. :)

Oblivion kinda just tossed the whole "steal to live" idea.
 
Y2Kevbug11 said:
The level scaling made the game more accessible, but it took a lot of the fun out of it for me.

In Morrowind, I stepped right off the boat and stole some sweet shit and ran as fast as I could. I remember hiding out in the mountains and stuff and running from guards whenever I would see one. :)

Oblivion kinda just tossed the whole "steal to live" idea.
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You're such a thug.
 
Regarding the PS3 stuff:

According to recent IGN interviews with Pete Heins, there are two reasons for the PS3 version having the 360 DLC available immediately:

#1: "it doesn't fit to start a new game and have a wizard's tower or thieves den", rather these are things that should be added in the way you buy a house.

#2: Bethesda hasn't had a chance to test the Playstation Store.

In a video interview, Heins confirmed that Shivering Isles would be released for the PS3 "this year". He also cites "memory issues" relating to DLC, but seems generally dismissive about the that content as a priority.

Paragon of journalistic integrity J0ystiq.com, had this to say about the PS3 port:
downgradenq6.jpg
 
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Word life.

OMG DID I SAY IT RIGHT? DID I DO IT RIGHT???
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*nods*

How the hell should I know? :p



on topic: where and when can we see/read this interview of yours?
 
Kyoto, ask Pete if there will be a return to "epic-sized" dungeons in Shivering Isles, which were noticeably missing from Oblivion. One of the most fun aspects about the Tribunal expansion pack, were the huge dungeons that seemed to literally go on for miles underground.

Also, what happened to all of the hidden areas, which contained legendary items, that were prevalent in Morrowind but completely absent in Oblivion? For example, the lost dwemer outpost that was hidden underwater out in the sea, and the Forgotten Vaults of Anudabia, both of which contained incredible items. There needs to be more secret areas that reward players who take the time to explore the map.
 
I'd like to know how he feels about the fans' negative response to the level scaling system and why they didn't feel the various problems that arise were serious enough to fix (beating the arena at level 1, common bandits with daedric gear, forcing archers to poison their arrows just to keep up with the levelling curve, etc...).
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I didn't even realize how busted the leveling was until I noticed despite how much I leveled I still kept struggling with the same enemies. At least FF8 gave you some decent options over time, in Oblivion equipment maxes out way too low and the enchantment system seems kind of crippled. I used to be able to enchant all kinds of useful things to my items, oblivion's stuff all seems semi-useful and preselected.
 
hobbitx said:
I didn't even realize how busted the leveling was until I noticed despite how much I leveled I still kept struggling with the same enemies. At least FF8 gave you some decent options over time, in Oblivion equipment maxes out way too low and the enchantment system seems kind of crippled. I used to be able to enchant all kinds of useful things to my items, oblivion's stuff all seems semi-useful and preselected.
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Yeah, that's one of the biggest issues PC gamers had with Oblivion. Many of them felt that Bethesda intentionally dumbed down the game in order to cater to the console kiddies.

Which, in all honestly, is probably not too far from the truth. Lots of xbox gamers struggled with Morrowind and felt that it was too difficult.
 
Since you can adjust the difficulty on the fly and have it affect the whole world instantly I don't see why they won't just give players the option to turn that off. Traditional mode, where every character has a specific level range with some random exceptions to keep things interesting. How hard could it be to include that option in another patch or the newest expansion? Sometimes it feels like devs in this age would break their games for certain groups by not including the simplest options just so they don't have to expose or admit the dumbing down to the newer potential fanbases. I don't even mean Oblivion only, I get this feeling with alot of newer games including stuff that was already on consoles.
 
KyotoMecca said:
I just need some questions for an interview tomorrow please...
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Ask him about mudcrabs. Repeatedly.

Next, break out the Simon and start trying to convince him to have sex with a sheep or something. See if his facial expressions change when you hit the buttons. Then discuss TES4's approach to NPC dialogue when compared to something like Bioware's or Obisidian's recent efforts. Keep reminding him about mudcrabs.

Finally, ask him about any future plans for Oblivion. Specifically, the The Elder Scrolls 4: Fans Fixed Our Game edition, with the hundreds of megabytes of fan mods required to repair and rebalance the game to something palatable for longtime CRPG players and fans of Morrowind (but still a very boring world in comparison with that game's setting).
 
Ask what the means will be to travel between Cyrodiil and the Shivering Isles. I think I read somewhere that it won't be teleporting/fastwalking because it's located physically outside the current game realm. So will it be a special access point like an Oblivion gate, or what?

Also, have they made any kind of noise about how many quests will be present? Knights of the Nine was really short. Will all quests be available to all player types?

For the XBOX 360 version, have they focused on optimizing the sometimes ridiculous load times present in the main game so the expansion loads faster?

Are the characters any more attractive? The ugly people Oblivion is filled with make me feel ruggedly handsome - wait, or is that the point? Is Oblivion really a giant medieval self-esteem generator?

I'm getting off track, so that's probably enough for now. :)
 
OK, all done, and the best bit is we got most all of this stuff into it I hope.

I'll definitely let you know when this is live - actually no I won't because it is, um, against the GAF rules so you will have to F5 Kikizo a million times per hour! Muahaha.
 
Nice dude. You did a good job asking all of the questions we wanted, even when you didn't understand what it meant (haha mudcrabs)

Everyone who liked the interview should digg it as a sign of thanks for asking our questions.
 
Kikizo: Obviously the feedback to Oblivion is Game of the Year and a million awards. But there was still some complaint... how do you feel about some of the negative response towards the level/scaling issues, is that something that you have thought about fixing?

Hines: No, not really, certainly there are probably elements that we could have done better, based on the feedback that I've gotten, there are equal amounts of people who understand it or don't understand it, you know, we get a lot of people talking about levelled rats and other things that simply don't exist in the game. The gist of the game is we try and make sure you're fighting creatures that are appropriate to your level, but the creatures themselves don't level - the only creatures we actually level are the boss creatures to make sure that your boss battles are appropriate.

But the issue for us is if you're going to create a big, open-ended game that lets people go wherever they want and do whatever they want, if you're going to stay true to that, then you can't really stick creatures in there that are, say, really high level that are going to prevent somebody from being able to explore there because they're far too low level. And by the same token, if you don't do anything with those creatures - if you put some really low level creatures in an area and somebody doesn't get there until the 140th hour, then that space is basically wasted, because it's so easy for them and the rewards are so meagre that it becomes an exercise in futility. So when we did the creature and loot levelling for Oblivion, we actually went back and did something that's very similar to the way it works in Arena and Daggerfall, because we felt that it worked a lot better in those games than it did in Morrowind, which is actually the most different of the four Elder Scrolls games in terms of how creatures and loot level. So, we went back kind of to the roots of the series, and tried to stay truer to where we started with that in terms of the challenges the player faces.

So the best I can tell you is that I appreciate that it's definitely a hot button for some folks, but hopefully they will find in Shivering Isles that the challenges are more appropriate, and it's something that we'll definitely look at as we go forward with other projects in terms of how we approach it.
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Ugh. Sounds like he's pretty convinced it's the best way to do things. I guess that doesn't leave too much hope for Fallout 3 or any other ES game in the future.

Thanks for bringing it up, anyway.
 
Hines: No, not really, certainly there are probably elements that we could have done better, based on the feedback that I've gotten, there are equal amounts of people who understand it or don't understand it, you know, we get a lot of people talking about levelled rats and other things that simply don't exist in the game. The gist of the game is we try and make sure you're fighting creatures that are appropriate to your level, but the creatures themselves don't level - the only creatures we actually level are the boss creatures to make sure that your boss battles are appropriate.
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NO HINES YOU'RE THE ONE THAT DOESN'T GET IT!!!
 
That was an absolutely fantastic interview, and answered pretty much every question I had about Shivering Isles.

Good job!
 
Hines: No, not really, certainly there are probably elements that we could have done better, based on the feedback that I've gotten, there are equal amounts of people who understand it or don't understand it, you know, we get a lot of people talking about levelled rats and other things that simply don't exist in the game. The gist of the game is we try and make sure you're fighting creatures that are appropriate to your level, but the creatures themselves don't level - the only creatures we actually level are the boss creatures to make sure that your boss battles are appropriate.
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Weasel. Basically, you still fight things that are ridiculously out of place-bandits with super armor and weapons,etc. They may not be called rats or bandits or whatever, but that's basically what they equal and it totally breaks the realism of the game. After a while stuff should be running away from you and your godlike powers of destruction, not leveling up with you.

I'm sure a few more gigabytes of PC mods can re-route around your assumptions and provide a workable game mechanic, though!

(Note: I'm setting up another attempt at playing Oblivion again, with more mods than ever and a mod install guide to make it all work. Hoping I can play the game I so desparately want to play by doing that.)
 
I would like to know more about what they are doing with the 360 version of Oblivion, and how closely the 360 version will look to the PS3 version.

It has been announced that since updating Oblivion for the PS3, certain graphical updates would be made available for the 360. I would like to know more about those updates (like how they will arrive, when, what the graphics will look like, etc).
 
Kikizo: Is the vast space of the new area going to be more dense in terms of people, creatures or activity, as I think some people noted that maybe the population was less active before?

Hines: No, I don't think it's going to be any more or any less than any particular space that you saw in Oblivion. It would be nice to just be able to put put hundreds and thousands of people in any particular city, but our problem is that we're trying to move away from generic. ...you can't create hundreds of thousands of people in a city to make it feel like a real city, and then have any of them mean anything - they'll just be a bunch of generic figureheads that are moving around the world, and that's just not at all what we're trying to do.
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So it's preferable to have a city that feels like a ghost town instead of having "generic" NPCs populate the streets. God forbid. This is why the towns in Gothic 3 put Oblivion's to shame.
 
My biggest, "Wow, this is just a fundamentally bad design," moment with Oblivion is when I discovered the level scaling bull, but the towns being ghost towns is also very disappointing. The Imperial City should be TEEMING with life. Rabanastre in FFXII has a crowded market, people everywhere, background noise, etc. Oblivion has one or two people that occasionally bump into each other and talk about Gray Fox or the weather.

I'd much prefer people you can't talk to and that don't have radiant AI if it means things are more vivid and lifelike.

And he's just wrong on the level scaling, but he thinks that probably because he's just defending this game. It's a bullshit defense-- Morrowind and the others before it worked fine.
 
Please ask them if the doors in the ruins will open when you hit the switches or have they left that engine bug intact and will continue to deny its existence despite established threads on their own message board.

Edit: dammit, missed the train. Nice interview though!
 
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