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[PBY]

Serious question. What makes you feel unsafe about reading something you disagree with?

Racism, sexism, other hate = / = disagreement.

 

[googleplex]

It wasn't and isn't an isolated incident. They are crawling all over the site now.

And there pretty easy I spot. Anyone that uses terms like SWJ's non-ironically is just holding up a douchebag flag

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Serious question. What makes you feel unsafe about reading something you disagree with?

Normalizing racism, sexism, white supremacy and other forms of bigotry. Which is exactly what has been happening on NeoGAF since last November.

Disagreements about things happen. When you disagree about the politics of basic human rights and respect, that is where people like us feel unsafe.

 

[ZeroGravity]

Serious question. What makes you feel unsafe about reading something you disagree with?

Seriously. I have no idea how some of these people function in the real world.

 

[Poltergust]

This is all just getting to be too much for me.

It is obvious to see where this site is going and I no longer wish to be a part of it. I'm not here for the NeoGAF brand, I'm here for the community, and this community is not one I want to be involved in anymore.

As soon as ResetEra is propped up I'm migrating there completely.

 

[googleplex]

Normalizing racism, sexism, white supremacy and other forms of bigotry. Which is exactly what has been happening on NeoGAF since last November.

Unfortunately it's not just gaf. This is the state of this country at the moment.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Unfortunately it's not just gaf. This is the state of this country at the moment.

Yep and I liked to think that this place was above it all. Clearly not the case.

As a queer man from a Muslim background I stopped feeling safe in this country a year ago. GAF was kind of my last bastion of hope. There are more Trump supports coming out of the woodworks now that it's safe for their opinions to be known. They support people who literally want us dead.

 

[17 Seconds]

This is all just getting to be too much for me.

It is obvious to see where this site is going and I no longer wish to be a part of it. I'm not here for the NeoGAF brand, I'm here for the community, and this community is not one I want to be involved in anymore.

As soon as ResetEra is propped up I'm migrating there completely.

the essence of the community is gone. what will be left will be the people that didn't like what neogaf was.

 

[metalslimer]

Seriously. I have no idea how some of these people function in the real world.

Another bullshit condescending post as if people don't have to put up with horrible things in their everyday life.

It was nice to have a community here where our humanity wasn't questioned but alas that seems to be gone

 

[Dierce]

Seriously. I have no idea how some of these people function in the real world.

We can have an open discussion on whether capitalism is better than socialism or the other way around. But there shouldn't be anyone saying that it's fine to discriminate others based on race, sex, nationality, sexual orientation or anything of that sort. I just don't know why it's hard to be conscientious of that.

 

[Hybris]

This is all just getting to be too much for me.

It is obvious to see where this site is going and I no longer wish to be a part of it. I'm not here for the NeoGAF brand, I'm here for the community, and this community is not one I want to be involved in anymore.

As soon as ResetEra is propped up I'm migrating there completely.

Yup, It's like a trainwreck that I can't look away from. Shocking to see what this place has become with the curtain pulled back. Hopefully resetera really is the reset button that this place clearly needed.

 

[APF]

Just so you know: "Yay people who don't agree with my positions are gone!" doesn't mesh with "you snowflakes can't handle dissenting opinions" very well.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Normalizing racism, sexism, white supremacy and other forms of bigotry. Which is exactly what has been happening on NeoGAF since last November.

Disagreements about things happen. When you disagree about the politics of basic human rights and respect, that is where people like us feel unsafe.

Yep gaf has been like this for a while now, just less moderation which makes it evem uglier. You had people cosigning pewdiepie racist rants as political differences. Smh

 

[vonStirlitz]

[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]

 

[googleplex]

Yep and I liked to think that this place was above it all. Clearly not the case.

As a queer man from a Muslim background I stopped feeling safe in this country a year ago. GAF was kind of my last bastion of hope. There are more Trump supports coming out of the woodworks now that it's safe for their opinions to be known. They support people who literally want us dead.

Mother Fuckers acting like they slick. New age Nazi bullshit wrapped in coded dog whistles and being excused as "just a different political opinion" These ass holes aren't cleaver and we see you.

The fact that this bullshit wasn't tolerated on Gaf was what made the community special! Unfortunately I think that maybe over. I hope it's not. But I don't have much confidence at the moment.

 

[Catchpenny]

the essence of the community is gone. what will be left will be the people that didn't like what neogaf was.

That's what it looks like, and you know who will pander to those people if it means saving his revenue stream.

 

[BadAss2961]

You can share unpopular opinions. You were even allowed to make pro-Trump threads. You had to be reasonable and articulate your position, though, which they never did.

Diablos was a Trump fan and wasn't banned because he liked Trump. Dude navigated his toxic ways without being banned. Y'all were just scared to say your minds because you 100% know you would say something that deserved a ban.

You guys silenced yourselves. Deal with it.

You can, but you're walking on eggshells. It took very little to offend someone and catch a ban.

I wasn't talking about Trump or politics btw (I can't stand the guy), but touchy subjects in general. I'm mostly a progressive minority, but also a pragmatist on occasion, not far left on every single social issue. Just about every day i'd avoid posting something because I didn't feel like getting piled on and banned by the hypersensitive cliques that were quick to label people and bait mod action. That's the atmosphere GAF had.

 

[BlastProcessing]

You can, but you're walking on eggshells. It took very little to offend someone and catch a ban.

I wasn't talking about Trump or politics btw (I can't stand the guy), but touchy subjects in general. I'm mostly a progressive minority, but also a pragmatist on occasion, not far left on every single social issue. Just about every day i'd avoid posting something because I didn't feel like getting piled on and banned by the hypersensitive cliques that were quick to label people and bait mod action. That's the atmosphere GAF had.

I mean, touchy subjects are going to be touchy subjects. That's their nature.

 

[SonnyBoy]

So for those of us who participated in the BCT thread and found inclusion with other minority groups, where do we go now?

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Just remember with the Nazis they're small in number but vocal. They make noise to try to shut you up. Don't let them.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Mate, fear is also a state of mind. Things are better than the bad old 70s and 80s, and don't let some inadequate little teen, who thinks he is powerful because he has an online voice, designed to provoke you, get to you. Don't let the little sad bastards bite. And don't get that way in your head either. It's a state of mind, and they are just playing mind games because it makes them feel powerful, because they have no power.

I've experienced more direct racism in real life in the last year than I ever have in my entire life, save for the few months following 9/11. For me the fear is real because I'm stopped by police more often than I used to be, and it increasingly feels like every stop could be my last. I don't feel safe going out at night alone because I've had beer bottles and punches thrown at me by literal nazis and homophobes.

GAF as a community helped me feel more safe because there were people out there I knew had similar experiences and could relate to me and tell me that not everyone was like that. Now we have people literally parroting Trump telling us to "get over it." It's the "we won, deal with it" mentality coming out in spades now, because they feel it's okay to defend sexual assault and other things like they do when they defend the President. GAF felt like a place where "black lives matter" wasn't seen as an insult, now we have people using "SJW" unironically as an insult to people who would stand up for equality and vocalize it.

In the long run I have hope for this community to get through this incident but I feel my days here are numbered because there are more people who are vocal about not wanting people like me here.

 

[halfbeast]

the essence of the community is gone. what will be left will be the people that didn't like what neogaf was.

so, basically NeoGAF is Dead Rising 4?

 

[Via Purifico]

Mate, fear is also a state of mind. Things are better than the bad old 70s and 80s, and don’t let some inadequate little teen, who thinks he is powerful because he has an online voice, designed to provoke you, get to you. Don’t let the little sad bastards bite. And don’t get that way in your head either. It’s a state of mind, and they are just playing mind games because it makes them feel powerful, because they have no power.

That's easy to say but there have been an increase of racist activity in my county.

Someone hung a black doll from a tree and a jewish community was personally given nazi letters. There is certainly a shift so I can't blame Pai Pai for feeling the way they do.

 

[GinoFelino]

I don't know the poster, but I do agree that we should not cannonize everyone who is leaving as "the best parts of NeoGaf". If you want to throw around the boogieman of GamerGate to my post then take that crap elsewhere. Nothing in my post history suggests any attachment to that, and you somehow trying to tie that to me is BS.

Right, right.

Because this:

"all the best posters." Some feel that they were the cancer running the site into the ground.

is the same as this:

we should not cannonize everyone who is leaving as "the best parts of NeoGaf".

 

[Sane_Man]

Yep and I liked to think that this place was above it all. Clearly not the case.

As a queer man from a Muslim background I stopped feeling safe in this country a year ago. GAF was kind of my last bastion of hope. There are more Trump supports coming out of the woodworks now that it's safe for their opinions to be known. They support people who literally want us dead.

I'm sorry man. You'll be welcomed with open arms at the new forum. I'll PM you a link if you don't already know it when it's up if I don't get banned before then.

 

[prag16]

Yeah, but the problem isnt respecting minorities/lgbt

You have to be blind or deaf to not acknowledge Neogaf has a clear problem when it comes to being an echo chamber, over-empowered mods, and what can only be described as a toxic environment for dissenting opinions. Even ones with good intentions. Homophobic and racist individuals should be banned outright, but neo gaf had an environment where I could have been banned for defending Evilore. (not that I am, just an example).

Yeah, basically this. A pity that Evilore didn't realize (or admit) this until the monster he created finally turned against him. Better late than never...

There is room for what the OP is talking about without the forum being a total toxic echo chamber quashing all nuance and slightly differing opinions. Here's hoping the new mod team will be able to strike that balance. The old team certainly couldn't.

 

[RastaMentality]

Serious question. What makes you feel unsafe about reading something you disagree with?

It's so scary how some people file away thinly-veiled bigotry as "disagreement"!

 

[Rushersauce]

Mother Fuckers acting like they slick. New age Nazi bullshit wrapped in coded dog whistles and being excused as "just a different political opinion" These ass holes aren't cleaver and we see you.

The fact that this bullshit wasn't tolerated on Gaf was what made the community special! Unfortunately I think that maybe over. I hope it's not. But I don't have much confidence at the moment.

It truly is fucking disgusting. They go as far as defending a putrid and vile ideology just because of "muh freespeech".
An ideology advocating for genocide is something that should be silenced.
Sorry... Not "should", but MUST.

 

[vonStirlitz]

[Redacted as the member no longer wishes to be associated with this website, and the reputational damage and distress caused by association with this website. In addition, the user considers that the action of the management, and the nature of the site and members of its community, renders the original terms and conditions of this site void, and it unconscionable for either side to be bound to them. The user reasserts their IP rights in all content and does not give any authority for its continued usage on this website. Despite requesting that the user's account be deleted, in accordance with data protection rules which apply to this website over multiple jurisdictions, the admin team have failed to delete this account, requiring the user to take its own steps to ensure the valid deletion of data.]

 

[Prithee Be Careful]

You can, but you're walking on eggshells. It took very little to offend someone and catch a ban.

I wasn't talking about Trump or politics btw (I can't stand the guy), but touchy subjects in general. I'm mostly a progressive minority, but also a pragmatist on occasion, not far left on every single social issue. Just about every day i'd avoid posting something because I didn't feel like getting piled on and banned by the hypersensitive cliques that were quick to label people and bait mod action. That's the atmosphere GAF had.

This is absolutely true. Complex and nuanced discussion which goes any deeper than simple condemnation - the the sort of debate worthy of the word 'forum' and that poses difficult, complex or polemic questions would get shit-piled with 'whats your agenda here' driven rhetoric and hit with a ban before you even progress the discussion.

60 pages of people calling somebody a 'douchebag' or an 'asshole' was considered 'disucssion'. One guy saying 'are we getting the full story here' would be hammered from all sides then banned.

 

[Crossing Eden]

It always seemed weird to me that people willing to argue over technical minutiae like 1-2 frame drops or 1-2% differences in pixel resolution are completely unwilling to see the/any utility in discussing real-world influences or implications of the media they consume.

Especially when the devs themselves wear those influences on their sleeve. As if it's just a mere coincidence that a bunch of older devs are making games about parenthood. Or that now that a lot more women and POC are working in game studios and even more who're playing, that the objectification has been toned down in the medium for the former and for the later there are far less stereotypical depictions and we're playing as both more often. There is an insane amount of merit in discussing the real world implications of media, even one as young as gaming considering that the way the medium treated women and minorities in the past eventually led to gamergate.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

Normalizing racism, sexism, white supremacy and other forms of bigotry. Which is exactly what has been happening on NeoGAF since last November.

Disagreements about things happen. When you disagree about the politics of basic human rights and respect, that is where people like us feel unsafe.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I guess my issue is that sometimes it seems that any opinion that deviates -- even a little -- from the default liberal platform is defined as "questioning people's humanity" or arguing over their "right to exist." Maybe I'm being overly generous, but I think a person can have conservative opinions or tendencies and not necessarily be an irredeemable bigot. There are black republicans that presumably believe they and their families have the right to exist.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Gents, i didnt mean to downplay it, and i wasnt aware how bad things are. i am really sorry.

i was just saying, i remember the bad old 80s when you lived in fear, where you got beaten or chased on the street, and i thought thingd had really changed.

i just didnt want anyone freaking over some little prick who was being rude just to provoke a reaction.

shit. how did we all get here?

Sadly nothing changed, and you've lived well if you have been in a community where you feel that things have been improved. You are blessed and you should be happy for that.

Outright racism is still just as prevalent as it's ever been in this country. And it's festering all over the world. America was founded on racism and built with a racist system of slave labour. The only thing that is changed is that we've reached the point where it's OK to have a nazi-sympathizer as President, and it's become OK to defend his bigotry in public.

 

[Luckydog]

Right, right.

Because this:



is the same as this:

If you cannot agree that not everyone who is leaving is perfect and some of them were a problem, then we are at a fundamental impasse. Regardless of our disagreeing, you trying to tie me to GG is BS and I would expect an apology. Throw that shit at someone who deserves it.

GAF is not a hive mind and neither are the people who are leaving. Some are good, some are a cancer.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

I really only posted here for the Off Topic. The vibe there was a blessing compared to basically every other major gaming/geek forums on the internet. I went away for a weekend and come back to a forum that is no different from the ign or youtube comments section. Super disappointing.

 

[PipefishUK]

Doubt it. It's shitlords from here on out

Ban me

Do you really only have to say 'Ban me' to get banned?

Does someone have a notification pop up on it or something?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

If you cannot agree that not everyone who is leaving is perfect and some of them were a problem, then we are at a fundamental impasse. Regardless of our disagreeing, you trying to tie me to GG is BS and I would expect an apology. Throw that shit at someone who deserves it.

GAF is not a hive mind and neither are the people who are leaving. Some are good, some are a cancer.

You have a point because there are plenty of people who account-suicided with hateful messages, offensive images and such that don't espouse what I believe GAF was ever about. But many of the people who did make this feel like a safe, inclusive space are now gone. And the community will be different without them.

And you have people celebrating that by calling the rest of us "SJWs" and "snowflakes" who need to embrace the "both sides" mentality of bigotry and hate.

 

[metalslimer]

I really only posted here for the Off Topic. The vibe there was a blessing compared to basically every other major gaming/geek forums on the internet. I went away for a weekend and come back to a forum that is no different from the ign or youtube comments section. Super disappointing.

It's amazing to me that people dont see that while the GAF had it's huge problems, no one has yet to name a place where they managed to have these nuanced political discussions in a better way. If there is this amazing discussion forum please let me know because I would love to be on it

Being able to say things like you think homosexuals are bound for hell and black people brought things on themselves isn't a discussion

 

[GinoFelino]

If you cannot agree that not everyone who is leaving is perfect and some of them were a problem, then we are at a fundamental impasse. Regardless of our disagreeing, you trying to tie me to GG is BS and I would expect an apology. Throw that shit at someone who deserves it.

GAF is not a hive mind and neither are the people who are leaving. Some are good, some are a cancer.

I'm liking those two options

I didn't link you to GG, by the way. Your GG sensor going off would imply the poster you quoted is GG. Given the posts by that user ITT, I'm inclined to stand by that.

 

[Luckydog]

You have a point because there are plenty of people who account-suicided with hateful messages, offensive images and such that don't espouse what I believe GAF was ever about. But many of the people who did make this feel like a safe, inclusive space are now gone. And the community will be different without them.

And you have people celebrating that by calling the rest of us "SJWs" and "snowflakes" who need to embrace the "both sides" mentality of bigotry and hate.

I 100% agree with you. My issue (and of course it is personal) is having me tied in any way to hateful crap and noting in my history here aligns with that, so to make backhanded inferences that I somehow support hate is garbage.

 

[Fercho]

What really bothers and makes me feel disappointed about the whole situation is all the users who said "fuck it" and committed account suicide, paving the way by all these new MAGA/Alt-Right assholes coming out of the rocks.

Instead of staying a fight for the community. This is classic of the "left" in the USA as a whole, not only in GAF , instead of fighting hard and taking a stand, they just say "fuck it" and move on to some other place where they feel confortable.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I guess my issue is that sometimes it seems that any opinion that deviates -- even a little -- from the default liberal platform is defined as "questioning people's humanity" or arguing over their "right to exist." Maybe I'm being overly generous, but I think a person can have conservative opinions or tendencies and not necessarily be an irredeemable bigot. There are black republicans that presumably believe they and their families have the right to exist.

I'm not going to defend every ban enacted by the mods and I do think they went over the top sometimes. But that certainly shouldn't have resulted in the entire OT being burned down and all political/social discourse being permanently banned from NeoGAF.

A discussion was due that would have shaped the future of the forum to better serve everyone and their opinions, so long as those opinions weren't hateful. Instead, entire communities were purged and no longer feel welcome. It was a failure of moderation from the highest level. Evilore absolutely failed to do his job as the administrator of the forum. Killing OT and blaming "the last year of politics" doesn't work when you did absolutely nothing to preserve the right kind of discourse in that last year.

 

[metalslimer]

What really bothers and makes me feel disappointed about the whole situation is all the users who said "fuck it" and committed account suicide, paving the way by all these new MAGA/Alt-Right assholes coming out of the rocks.

Instead of staying a fight for the community. This is classic of the "left" in the USA as a whole, not only in GAF , instead of fighting hard and taking a stand, they just say "fuck it" and move on to some other place where they feel confortable.

Why would you fight for a community owned by someone you fundamentally disagree with and want don't want to contribute to? It would be one thing if he have up power but instead it went the opposite direction. He destroyed the community not the users

If only was as easy in the US as to just pack up and create a new country free of racism and bigotry many minorities would quickly take that option.

 

[Sephzilla]

What really bothers and makes me feel disappointed about the whole situation is all the users who said "fuck it" and committed account suicide, paving the way by all these new MAGA/Alt-Right assholes coming out of the rocks.

Instead of staying a fight for the community. This is classic of the "left" in the USA as a whole, not only in GAF , instead of fighting hard and taking a stand, they just say "fuck it" and move on to some other place where they feel confortable.

It's hard to fight for a community when the owner of the community effectively said he doesn't want you and you don't want him

 

[Luckydog]

I'm liking those two options

I didn't link you to GG, by the way. Your GG sensor going off would imply the poster you quoted is GG. Given the posts by that user ITT, I'm inclined to stand by that.

My intent on posting was that some people who are leaving (in some cases hateful people), and that they are a cancer to the community. My impression from your post is that who I quoted was a GG'er and I had somehow aligned with that thinking.

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, but in no way shape or form do I want either an overt or backhanded impression that I support that shit.

 

[nekkid]

GAF is not a single entity with a single opinion, so I can’t agree with the OP sentiment.

I, however, will continue to respect those groups of people. Regardless of the behaviour or opinion of specific individuals.

 

[prag16]

It's so scary how some people file away thinly-veiled bigotry as "disagreement"!

On the other hand, set the bar for bigotry low enough, and the concept loses all meaning. If you can't see that gaf VERY often did this, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[FearlessBelgian]

Its time for a new age !

 

[Rastafarian42]

GAF has never respected minorities, just merely tolerated them. Any time we spoke up about an issue that affected us and that made white people uncomfortable people like me and the communities we occupied were deemed as 'toxic'. Meanwhile i've had to deal with 4 years of condescension, dog-whistling, & baiting on issues like blackface, police brutality, hate speech & the n-word and that gets placed under the banner of reasonable discussion. Now those 'toxic' communities have been eradicated and everyone is jumping out of the rafters dance on their grave. And people have the audacity to believe that this forum even cares about minority issues beyond lip service. What do we have left now? A pseudo-intellectual bubble where people can just talk about video games and nobody 'virtue signals' any more, wow I sure feel at fucking home. How fucking inclusive.

GAF cares so much about black people that people actively rebuked and ignored any point they made about racial issues to cry about dogpiling, ignored black members concerns about the forum as a whole as SJW hysteria, and actively turned a blind eye to people going into the BCT thread itself trying to bait people. That's all 'reasonable discourse' apparently. Y'all were willing to implicitly buy into the stereotypes of black people being rash, emotionally charged, and unreasonable, and let that dictate the way you interact with the black community on this forum and black issues as a whole. The lie that this forum and a large section of what remains of it's userbase actually cared about this stuff is some grade A bullshit. You tolerated us, that's all. And now you don't have to anymore.

facts

 

[Elegant Weapon]

It's amazing to me that people dont see that while the GAF had it's huge problems, no one has yet to name a place where they managed to have these nuanced political discussions in a better way. If there is this amazing discussion forum please let me know because I would love to be on it

Being able to say things like you think homosexuals are bound for hell and black people brought things on themselves isn't a discussion

I haven't even seen any of these posters allude to their being a magically nuanced place for major discussion in the geek community outside of this. Penny Arcade is decent enough, relatively but where is this utopia where rightwing opinions on social issues are expressed respectably and with nuance?

But to have so many say that OT was sooooo toxic like the rest of the internet isn't way worse? It's disingenuous as hell