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[AmishNazi]

A tv talk show host does not = a president in terms of politicking.

No she's not, BUT people (you know non partisan women and black people) love her. Oprah could kill the Clinton campaign and negate any influence Bill has on black people voting for Hillary. Then add in the women voters and I will say Oprah is more powerful than a former president in politics and campaigning.

 

[Enron]

The amount of idol worshiping going on with this man among the younger generation of Americans scares me.

QFT. Politics are treated by many americans like team sports, but Obama is approaching cult-like levels of fanaticism (or RonPaul levels, if you will...except Obama is a front-runner). I mean, i'm a pretty staunch republican, but you won't see me out sign-waving or going door to door or chanting at rallies.

 

[Cheebs]

I'm lttp, but why do people think black people will vote for Hilary?

because they ALWAYS vote democrat.

No she's not, BUT people (you know non partisan women and black people) love her. Oprah could kill the Clinton campaign and negate any influence Bill has on black people voting for Hillary. Then add in the women voters and I will say Oprah is more powerful than a former president in politics and campaigning.

but she doesnt have the time nor ability to campaign a daily presidential election

it certainly will not be a co-presidency. thats not quite legal. is it? and its still playing on peoples stupidity.

bill is basically running as if he were campaigning for himself. thats what people are having issues with.

Who is having issue? Democratic insiders and internet elitists? Thats it. The voters have no issue with it. Bill Clinton's visting of the 9 casino's the morning of the primary is considered the KEY reason she won 7 out of the 9 casino's which got her the win. The voters were wooed by Bill in Nevada.

 

[grandjedi6]

I'm lttp, but why do people think black people will vote for Hilary?

Bill = first black president
Hillary = Bill

 

[Cheebs]

Bill = first black president
Hillary = Bill

I'd say the fact african americans have never supported a single republican nominee in over 50-60 years, if not longer has a bit of a impact.

 

[grandjedi6]

I'd say the fact african americans have never supported a single republican nominee in over 50-60 years, if not longer has a bit of a impact.

I thought he was talking about the primaries too

 

[belvedere]

because they ALWAYS vote democrat.

I knew this, but are we suggesting Obama's campaign has run it's course?

 

[Green Shinobi]

Hey, so what happened in this primary? The OP is a complete and utter failure for not updating his post.

 

[Cheebs]

Hey, so what happened in this primary? The OP is a complete and utter failure for not updating his post.

Hillary won nevada. McCain won SC.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Who is having issue? Democratic insiders and internet elitists? Thats it. The voters have no issue with it. Bill Clinton's visting of the 9 casino's the morning of the primary is considered the KEY reason she won 7 out of the 9 casino's which got her the win. The voters were wooed by Bill in Nevada.

no shit.. the voters chose her. but this is about how uninformed the majority of the voting public is. and the shamelessness of many politicians. while the majority of the (uninformed) voters have no issues with this, it certainly is not just democratic insiders and internet elitists that do.

i have always had issues with our political system, and this shit just helps to highlight some of those problems. just because they happen, or have happened in the past does not mean that we shouldnt give a shit.

btw. do you seriously consider yourself an obama supporter? i only ever see you campaigning for hillary here.

 

[smurfx]

obama has the younger people going crazy for him and he has the celebrities in his corner so that means he is going to lose.

 

[Particle Physicist]

oh, and the whole 'if obama was doing this, you wouldnt have any issue with it' is one of the lamest excuses ever.

 

[Macam]

Seriously though, I really like Obama. But the man's a politician. He has been unclear about previous positions and tried to paint Hilary as some rock which will only change if the winds of America force it. The amount of idol worshiping going on with this man among the younger generation of Americans scares me.

...because it was worth quoting again.

 

[Particle Physicist]

...because it was worth quoting again.

i dont see much idol worshipping going on. at least nowhere near the ron paul level.

there is nothing wrong with people being passionate about their candidates. in fact.. you should be passionate about candidates.. these are the people that will be directly affecting your lives for 4 years or more.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Blacks aren't going to vote for Hillary in SC, at least not in big numbers. If Hillary wins the nomination I wouldn't be surprised if many blacks stay home in November - many don't vote anyway, and the negative aura Hillary has festered won't get anyone excited

 

[grandjedi6]

i dont see much idol worshipping going on. at least nowhere near the ron paul level.

there is nothing wrong with people being passionate about their candidates. in fact.. you should be passionate about candidates.. these are the people that will be directly affecting your lives for 4 years or more.

I'm really glad that there is so much interest in this election. After 8 years of Bush everyone wants there opinion heard and are now paying attention to politics. It's far better than the declining political interest that has been happening for the last 20 years.

 

[Kildace]

i dont see much idol worshipping going on. at least nowhere near the ron paul level.

there is nothing wrong with people being passionate about their candidates. in fact.. you should be passionate about candidates.. these are the people that will be directly affecting your lives for 4 years or more.

I think that the issue is that most people who support Obama over Hillary don't do it because of a difference in policies, they do it because his personality is more appealing to young people. That's kind of like idol worshipping.

All in all, while I like Obama better I do agree with Bill's "fairy tale" statement and think that Obama did flip flop a bit and does lack experience for the job. It's all well and good being a Washington outsider but if you don't have foreign policy / nationwide economics experience since you've only been a senator for two years, you will have to surround yourself with people that do and these people are ... the Washington establishment.
I think that Obama in 2012 could be one of the best president the USA has ever had, but I don't think he's ready today.

 

[grandjedi6]

Blacks aren't going to vote for Hillary in SC, at least not in big numbers. If Hillary wins the nomination I wouldn't be surprised if many blacks stay home in November - many don't vote anyway, and the negative aura Hillary has festered won't get anyone excited

There is no evidence that Blacks will lose interest just because Obama doesn't get the nomination. When Jesse Jackson was defeated in the primaries that didn't stop blacks from voting for Dukakis. Plus Hillary has Bill for support who is highly popular with the majority of American americans.

I think that the issue is that most people who support Obama over Hillary don't do it because of a difference in policies, they do it because his personality is more appealing to young people. That's kind of like idol worshipping.

All in all, while I like Obama better I do agree with Bill's "fairy tale" statement and think that Obama did flip flop a bit and does lack experience for the job. It's all well and good being a Washington outsider but if you don't have foreign policy / nationwide economics experience since you've only been a senator for two years, you will have to surround yourself with people that do and these people are ... the Washington establishment.
I think that Obama in 2012 could be one of the best president the USA has ever had, but I don't think he's ready today.

History has not supported the "More experience = better president" theory. In fact some of our best presidents had almost no experience before the election.

 

[Cooter]

What is happening to Obama by the Clinton's is really disturbing and I hope it is opening the eyes of many democracts who think they walk on water.

 

[Kildace]

History has not supported the "More experience = better president" theory. In fact some of our best presidents had almost no experience before the election.

But we're not in history. We're in an age of global economy that even economists don't really understand, we're in an age of global diplomacy where one misinformed statement / allegiance can set fire to an entire country on the other side of the planet, we're in an age where lobbies are the strongest they've ever been and most White House advisers hold an allegiance to one or the other.
In my eyes, a president nowadays needs a extensive knowledge of everything being a president entails because whereas in the past some could just "wing it", today any mistake can have tremendous repercussions. Obama needs more than two years as a governor to have a good enough grasp on all of this, imo.

 

[Cooter]

But we're not in history. We're in an age of global economy that even economists don't really understand, we're in an age of global diplomacy where one misinformed statement / allegiance can set fire to an entire country on the other side of the planet, we're in an age where lobbies are the strongest they've ever been and most White House advisers hold an allegiance to one or the other.
In my eyes, a president nowadays needs a extensive knowledge of everything being a president entails because whereas in the past some could just "wing it", today any mistake can have tremendous repercussions. Obama needs more than two years as a governor to have a good enough grasp on all of this, imo.

And why do you think Hillary has any qualifications to handle the issues you brought up?

 

[thekad]

All in all, while I like Obama better I do agree with Bill's "fairy tale" statement and think that Obama did flip flop a bit and does lack experience for the job.

Sigh. I wish people would think for themselves.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

I knew this, but are we suggesting Obama's campaign has run it's course?

It pretty much is.

Like I said here and elsewhere, Clinton has barely done anything right and Obama has done nothing but right. Yet except for Iowa, the voters are all choosing Clinton. Nevada is proof that Bill has a lot of power still and he will be campaigning for Hillary like he was campaigning for himself in 1992 and 1996.

Nevada might not have brought in much in terms of delegates but it pretty much is a showing of what is going to happen from now on: 2 Clintons vs. 1 Obama. Obama is toast. If I were Obama, I'd still campaign but his days are numbered.

 

[Incognito]

Anyone else see the video of Bill dozing off at an MLK event?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/01/clinton_gets_sleepy_at_mlk_day.php

Tough campaign.

 

[Cooter]

Nevada might not have brought in much in terms of delegates but it pretty much is a showing of what is going to happen from now on: 2 Clintons vs. 1 Obama. Obama is toast. If I were Obama, I'd still campaign but his days are numbered.

I hope the Dems know what they are getting with Hillary as their nominee. The way things are looking with McCain being up in NY I don't think she has a chance in the general. Obama is much more electable and overall a much better person IMO. Oh well.

 

[CoolTrick]

Anyone else see the video of Bill dozing off at an MLK event?

Clearly it means he's racist.

 

[NWO]

Like I said here and elsewhere, Clinton has barely done anything right and Obama has done nothing but right.

Not really. He should have finished Clinton off in NH instead he tried to ride out the "momentum". In Nevada instead of trying to get Hispanics on his side by appealing to them he just got the union support and figured he would win. He has done nothing to quiet the where's the beef crowd saying he does well in speeches but talks very generally about how he would change things but he doesn't go into detail nor does he lay out plans. This is also coming from a guy who does horrible at debates a place where many people see him for the first time.

Obama is also getting frustrated at dealing with 2 people attacking him. How many people do you think the Republican nominee will throw out at him? If he wants to be the nominee he needs to step up his game rather than becoming the 2008 version of John Kerry.

 

[Kildace]

And why do you think Hillary has any qualifications to handle the issues you brought up?

I don't. I also don't vote in the US election so there's no need to proselytize, I'm just giving my opinion on Obama right now. The fact that Hillary does or does not have any more qualifications for the job has no bearing on Obama.

Sigh. I wish people would think for themselves.

Eh? I believed this before Clinton said it and I just find it surprising that the "fairy tale" speech has since then been elevated at hate crimes level. He does have a point and there's nothing racist or even dishonest about what he said. If Obama wins the primaries the Republicans will be much tougher on him than Clinton was during that speech.

 

[grandjedi6]

Obama needs more than two years as a governor to have a good enough grasp on all of this, imo.

He's in his 4th year as a senator, not governor

It pretty much is.

Like I said here and elsewhere, Clinton has barely done anything right and Obama has done nothing but right. Yet except for Iowa, the voters are all choosing Clinton. Nevada is proof that Bill has a lot of power still and he will be campaigning for Hillary like he was campaigning for himself in 1992 and 1996.

Nevada might not have brought in much in terms of delegates but it pretty much is a showing of what is going to happen from now on: 2 Clintons vs. 1 Obama. Obama is toast. If I were Obama, I'd still campaign but his days are numbered.

Eh, I don't think Obama is out yet. If he actually stays in it the race could be dragged on for quite a while. Plus the democrats haven't had this close of a contest and and an idealistic candidate to do this well, in years. So its a little unpredictable on exactly what will happen down the line. I wouldn't be counting anyone out until after Super Tuesday.

Not really. He should have finished Clinton off in NH instead he tried to ride out the "momentum". In Nevada instead of trying to get Hispanics on his side by appealing to them he just got the union support and figured he would win. He has done nothing to quiet the where's the beef crowd a saying he does well in speeches but talks very generally about how he would change things but he doesn't go into detail nor does he lay out plans. This is also coming from a guy who does horrible at debates place where many people see him for the first time.

Obama is also getting frustrated at dealing with 2 people attacking him. How many people do you think the Republican nominee will throw out at him? If he wants to be the nominee he needs to step up his game rather than becoming the 2008 version of John Kerry.

Obama didn't just twidle his thumbs and get beat in NH and Nevada. He did campaign and just got beat, there is little he could have done otherwise.

And whoever gets the democratic nomination will have the whole party on there side. It won't be the same as 2 popular Clintons tag teaming on him



Seriously, GAF is so bipolar in regards to Obama. One minute everyone is declaring him the next president and the next minute people act like he is getting 5% in the polls. Can't we just wait and see before deciding anything?

 

[Kildace]

He's in his 4th year as a senator, not governor

My bad, I'm obviously misinformed.
My point still stands though. He's still young and another 4 years in office would do him a lot of good and would help him flesh out his program beyond change and hope.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the guy, I'd probably vote for him too, but he's not the second coming of the Christ like so many people on the Internet seem to think he is.

 

[grandjedi6]

My bad, I'm obviously misinformed.
My point still stands though. He's still young and another 4 years in office would do him a lot of good and would help him flesh out his program beyond change and hope.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the guy, I'd probably vote for him too, but he's not the second coming of the Christ like so many people on the Internet seem to think he is.

This I can agree with. THe idea that only Obama can save America is pretty ludicrous. I'm still voting for the guy though

 

[Smiles and Cries]

sorry this is a little OT but are we going to have a CNN Debate Thread for tonight?

starts an hour from now on CNN you may find a live stream on www.cnn.com

 

[Juice]

Blacks aren't going to vote for Hillary in SC, at least not in big numbers. If Hillary wins the nomination I wouldn't be surprised if many blacks stay home in November - many don't vote anyway, and the negative aura Hillary has festered won't get anyone excited

QFT

Really wondering what Obama is going to do in the debate tonight to try to appeal to women.

 

[Particle Physicist]

sorry this is a little OT but are we going to have a CNN Debate Thread for tonight?

starts an hour from now on CNN you may find a live stream on www.cnn.com

i guess we can just post here about it.

.

im watching the pre-debate thing right now.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

i guess we can just post here about it.

.

im watching the pre-debate thing right now.

yeah me too

 

[NWO]

Obama didn't just twidle his thumbs and get beat in NH and Nevada. He did campaign and just got beat, there is little he could have done otherwise.

I was responding to the fact that he did everything right comment. He didn't. If he would have gotten his voters to vote for him in NH instead of McCain then Hilliary would have already been eliminated by now.

So he hasn't run a mistake free campaign or he'd already have this thing wrapped up. Hilliary was on the verge of being eliminated if she didn't win NH and now that's a laughable comment. Don't you guys remember when Edwards was thought of as the main competition for Obama and not Clinton? That was only a few weeks ago.

If anything I would say that Obama has had an average run that was inflated by the media and that he has room for improvement. He needs to get out there more rather than letting people see him in the debates because he doesn't come off well in those. He should have ignored the Clinton's attack and focused on the issues rather than losing concentration because that's why they attacked him. If they can make this a debate back and fourth between both camps then Obama will be the loser in this since more people already know Clinton. It is very important for him to get out his message rather than fighting with Bill.

 

[grandjedi6]

I was responding to the fact that he did everything right comment. He didn't. If he would have gotten his voters to vote for him in NH instead of McCain then Hilliary would have already been eliminated by now.

So he hasn't run a mistake free campaign or he'd already have this thing wrapped up. Hilliary was on the verge of being eliminated if she didn't win NH and now that's a laughable comment. Don't you guys remember when Edwards was thought of as the main competition for Obama and not Clinton? That was only a few weeks ago.

If anything I would say that Obama has had an average run that was inflated by the media and that he has room for improvement. He needs to get out there more rather than letting people see him in the debates because he doesn't come off well in those. He should have ignored the Clinton's attack and focused on the issues rather than losing concentration because that's why they attacked him. If they can make this a debate back and fourth between both camps then Obama will be the loser in this since more people already know Clinton. It is very important for him to get out his message rather than fighting with Bill.

Hillary was never on the verge of being eliminated. She has always been ahead of Obama in almost everything. The idea of Hillary leaving the race and Edwards being the main competitor was only hyperbole by the media, it had no merit.

 

[Cheebs]

QFT

Really wondering what Obama is going to do in the debate tonight to try to appeal to women.

They didn't stay home when Jesse Jackson got a strong second place in 1988 winning like 10 states including SC. A lot of pressure from the black community was put on Dukakis to make his running mate be Jackson since Jackson had a strong amount of delegates and the party didn't want to upset the black community who were smitten with Jackson in 88 and a clear majority of them were voting for him in every state.

Dukakis didn't put him on the ticket, and it was said the black vote would not turn out in november out of bitterness.

They turned out in the numbers they always do for Dukakis, it was meaningless.

The black community vote lock step for the democrats. The democrats could nominate a dead guy and the african american community would show up and vote for him.

 

[Particle Physicist]

the debate is starting in about 15 minutes or so.. .

 

[Smiles and Cries]

wow no rules no time limits :lol this is going to get ugly

 

[Particle Physicist]

i think we should make a new thread.. no one else seems to be watching.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

yeah make it