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Never understood the concept of uncanny valley

Black_Stride

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Mar 31, 2011
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For the people who can't read lips, she is saying "i'm here to reap your soul"

Sweet Jesus.
Baby Aloy never fails to terrify
 

playXray

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I don’t think you’ve understood what the uncanny valley really means. Take a look at Super Mario Bros - no-one ever complained that Mario looked unrealistic. Then look at Oblivion. That’s the uncanny valley.
 
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TheMay30thMan

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As long as you’re aware that what you’re looking at isn’t real, your brain is going to focus on the parts that seem the most unrealistic, making it seem unsettling. I’m sure some games that are made a decade from now will have both photorealistic graphics and animation. It won’t matter though, because if we’re aware that the images we see aren’t real, it will always look...uncanny.
 

Black_Stride

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Everything about it looks like a game, I would never mistake that for reality

it looks really strange
I call bullshit.
The skin shader and eyes look more realistic than 90% of Instagram.
Beyond the valley was the point.
Other than her hair this is just a photoshoot for some artsy magazine.
 
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StateofMajora

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I call bullshit.
The skin shader and eyes look more realistic than 90% of Instagram.
Beyond the valley was the point.
Other than her hair this is just a photoshoot for some artsy magazine.
I think you need your eyes checked mate.

Maybe post a real and fake pic without telling us and see if I can tell
 
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Black_Stride

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I think you need your eyes checked mate.

Maybe post a real and fake pic without telling us and see if I can tell

I said beyond the valley.
The uncanny valley and specifically mentioned animations being key so on the ucv chart we would be looking at the still line.
 
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RPSleon

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Its when they look SO real and dont move or act in a natural way. Its unnerving. But i dont think it happens much because animation is so good.

Felt it a bit in horizon. She just had a weird way about her interactions.
 
Feb 18, 2019
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Characters and their faces should be getting more realistic but up to a point, beyond that is this strange valley everyone is talking about. I love photorealism and I encourage every dev that makes these types of games to continue striving for ultimate realism. Why not? I’ll still be knowing I’m playing the game because I’ll have controller in my hand and shit is moving on the screen based on my input. Yes, I want it too look as realistic as TV program.

I heard people who want devs to make characters more gamey when they come close to photorealism. You want this distinction between real life and games. I say nah, blend the shit together. Why stop the technology in its natural progress?

I never felt this unease when characters on screen started to look real. Don’t understand it really, must be something psychological that’s not activating in my brain. It’s still just stuff on screen, real physical robots/androids might be something different.

In what camp are you guys in, photorealism or keep it gamey?
I think the opposite, actually, I love old style games, minimalistic style games and I continue to crave them, they could continue to release them forever and I'll be happy

There's room for realistic games, for middle grounds, and for stylized / gamey titles too
Also, I find 2d or minimal style games way more relaxing, both for the eyes and for the mind, probably 'cause they use to remember me old gamer kid days a lot
 

bargeparty

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Yea I've always found the character model for kid Aloy really...off.

She looks like she's suffering from a perpetual allergic reaction.

I just can't imagine they tried that hard with the kid, it's not in the game for that long right? What's the point in putting a ton of time and money into it.
 
Jun 11, 2019
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Characters and their faces should be getting more realistic but up to a point, beyond that is this strange valley everyone is talking about. I love photorealism and I encourage every dev that makes these types of games to continue striving for ultimate realism. Why not? I’ll still be knowing I’m playing the game because I’ll have controller in my hand and shit is moving on the screen based on my input. Yes, I want it too look as realistic as TV program.

I heard people who want devs to make characters more gamey when they come close to photorealism. You want this distinction between real life and games. I say nah, blend the shit together. Why stop the technology in its natural progress?

I never felt this unease when characters on screen started to look real. Don’t understand it really, must be something psychological that’s not activating in my brain. It’s still just stuff on screen, real physical robots/androids might be something different.

In what camp are you guys in, photorealism or keep it gamey?
I dont have time to read the rest of the thread but for me one example would be the little girl in horizon zero dawn, the game looks realistic but theres something off with her hair or head.
 
Jun 11, 2019
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Hmmm nevermind I must have been high before and didn't realize I read this thread, however I do stand by what I said as my original thought.

yes im slightly high lol
 

Keihart

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Jun 23, 2013
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Characters and their faces should be getting more realistic but up to a point, beyond that is this strange valley everyone is talking about. I love photorealism and I encourage every dev that makes these types of games to continue striving for ultimate realism. Why not? I’ll still be knowing I’m playing the game because I’ll have controller in my hand and shit is moving on the screen based on my input. Yes, I want it too look as realistic as TV program.

I heard people who want devs to make characters more gamey when they come close to photorealism. You want this distinction between real life and games. I say nah, blend the shit together. Why stop the technology in its natural progress?

I never felt this unease when characters on screen started to look real. Don’t understand it really, must be something psychological that’s not activating in my brain. It’s still just stuff on screen, real physical robots/androids might be something different.

In what camp are you guys in, photorealism or keep it gamey?
It's simple, it means that as you approach perfect photorealism there is a point called the valley because instead of making the characters look better they start to look weirder until you achieve perfection and becomes real. Why you ask? because as humans, a big part of our brains it's specialized with recognizing human faces and expressions so naturally we can perceive very small details as wrong and the closer to the real thing those details become more important because there is less room for interpretation.

Basically, if you can't make it perfect then fake it until it looks right. That's what ND does for example, instead of those creepy 1:1 attempts in things like COD or Quantic Dream games or Until Dawn (Although arguably, it somewhat works in Until Dawn since the actors are so bad and everything seems like a bad B movie)
 

Somnium

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I just can't imagine they tried that hard with the kid, it's not in the game for that long right? What's the point in putting a ton of time and money into it.
It's a shame because the game has so many wonderful looking character models, so it really stood out for the wrong reasons.
 

Sander Cohen

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OMG, this so much. I always feel unnerved watching him but he’s real person so how do you explain that?

Also, there are many examples where devs didn’t do a good job with face animations but face itself looks perfect. That’s the hard part I presume but it will get better. CoD WW2 stuck in my mind as really impressive stuff, Modern Warfare too. This is all in cutscenes, of course.
 

JeloSWE

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OMG, this so much. I always feel unnerved watching him but he’s real person so how do you explain that?
Well, I'm an professional artist and a bit interested in the science behind beauty to give some context. My reasoning about this is that we have evolved to be highly sensitive to faces, we even have a special region in our brains that if damaged will cause face blindness (losing the ability to recognize faces) while still being able to see and recognize everything else such as a car or apple.

We get a lot of information from a face, it helps us communicate potential intentions, do they look angry, are they a threat, do the look kind, will they be my friendly etc. Besides the whole body it plays a very important part when selecting a healthy good looking mate. So faces are super important and we are extremely sensitive and good at picking up on if some one is sick, aging, has genetic problems eg down syndrome that could make it difficult to have healthy children and so on. So any deviation from the a normal healthy friendly face can trigger aversion, unease, disgust and fear. Thus an almost realistic looking face that has some of the problematic traits of an unhealthy or potentially dangerous person will look uncanny. And Zuckerberg sometimes under certain lighting conditions appear to have very hollow/dead looking eyes and he has very faint eyebrows making the the look even worse.

I'm not completely sure about this but I think it's possible to have a near realistic looking face but still not trigger the uncanny valley as long as the face doesn't exhibit any negative or unattractive traits. I imagine having some really skilled Square Enix artist making a near photoreal Aerith yet not looking uncanny at all some how? :)
 
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Quartermaster

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There's Michael Douglas. In Antman in 2015.



This is him in real life in 2015.



This is him from 1985:



And now here's Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy 2010:



Jeff Bridges in real life in 2010:



This is him from 1985:



Guess which one has no soul?
 
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Sentenza

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Well, you are right. You never understood it.

The point isn’t that becoming more and more photorealistic is bad.
The point is that the closer you get to photorealistic the more imperfections stand out and there is a particular portion of the “curve” (described as a “valley”) were this effect is maximized.
But it’s a valley precisely because at some point you get past it and things start improving steadily once again.
It’s not like the more photorealistic you get the worst it becomes.
 

LMJ

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The human body (face in particular) is very expressive, and due to this in animation capturing that can be a nightmare for many animators etc

Take LA Noire, the faces are phenomenal in the game (due to the face scanning hardware/software), but the rest is stiff and lifeless, your brain picks up on those things that are missing in reality that we take for granted...

A real life example is Justice League 2017, any time Caville's on screen it makes your brain itch


Due to the CG mustache coverup
 

Majukun

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What's interesting is thinking about where this deep-seated fear of things that look almost human but aren't comes from.
i think it's mostly deriving by how much of our processing power ans software is on face recognition.

basically we are good at identifying and interpreting faces, and this collaterally makes us really good at identify if something looks wrong in it

the rest is just your brain telling you that something is wrong but they still don't know what, which is even more of a reason for yur brain to sound the alarms

that or in the past we won a war with shape-shifting aliens
 

kiphalfton

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I came here to see that character from Medal of Honor. I'm happy Neogaf has not disappointed me.
It's creepy cuz she's ugly and looks like a man.

Now show me a life like Gal Gadot video game model and we'll see.
 

jaysius

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Oct 3, 2019
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It’s just a dumb low hanging fruit people find to complain about that really doesn’t matter.

Just because tons of people have wasted life energy making stupid graphs, still doesn’t mean it’s worthwhile.

Like ludonarrative dissonance and “plot armour” who fucking cares enjoy what’s presented or do anything else, no need to dwell on worthless “issues”, they’re only issues because the person is obsessing on it.

It‘s an early days snowflake made up issue that really only impacts you if you dwell on dumb throwaway shit too long.

TL;DR: It’s bullshit below “champagne problems” it’s people making mouth noises thinking if they’re triggered by something they’ll get attention and micropity for.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

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It’s a conspiracy theory invented by weebs who were jealous of photorealistic western games.

... am I doing this right?
 

THEAP99

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red dead redemption 2 fire GIF by Rockstar Games
The Last Of Us Ps4 GIF by Naughty Dog

The Last Of Us Dance GIF by Naughty Dog

Norman Reedus Telepathy GIF


devil may cry capcom GIF


These all look great to me.
Also

You can still have ur anime art style with smaller niche games while other studios do stylized realism guys
 
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Delco Airsoft

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Jan 17, 2020
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This is uncanny valley


It's also the stuff of nightmares.

We had a transgender politician here in italy for a while that looked suspiciously similar to this...emh, lady.
Still a great game though. The daughter Bella was even scarier.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Video game characters sill animate and look like shit most of the time.

In static pictures, it can look great. Skin imperfections, scruff, scars etc.... Whomever does this texture art is doing a good job.

When it comes to animations, zombie eyes, dark grey teeth syndrome, and lip movements that are unnatural looking, they need to work on that.

LA Noire still have great animations. The textures are ultra last gen, bit at least the lip syncing looks great. And that game came out 10 years ago.

 

tassletine

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Weve already crossed the valley in terms of rendering so i have no real worries about it.
Animations just need to keep up, thats when things get weird.



We all see things differently. The hair on that one should give you some clue as to how fake that looks to me.
There's Michael Douglas. In Antman in 2015.



This is him in real life in 2015.



This is him from 1985:



And now here's Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy 2010:



Jeff Bridges in real life in 2010:



This is him from 1985:



Guess which one has no soul?
Antman isn't done with the same technique as Tron. Bridges is done more traditionally, using CG animation, like a videogame.
Douglas is the actual actor with photos and video of his younger self (and other actors) tracked on top.
 
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I've seen lots of theorizing that the uncanny valley doesn't exist. And I tend to agree to be honest.


An example of thoughts
 

BPX

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This is uncanny valley


It's also the stuff of nightmares.

We had a transgender politician here in italy for a while that looked suspiciously similar to this...emh, lady.

Is that a man or a dude?