New Destiny 2 info from EDGE #310

Time limits are really fucking stupid. Probably won't be playing many nightfalls now. :/
Yep. Expect a ton of players disconnecting if you don't get to 'x' checkpoint with 'y' amount of time left.

I suppose it's tough to blame people. Why push the same strike it might be literally impossible to complete in the time remaining.
 
But it's Nightfall. It's supposed to be challenging. If you want unlimited time, play the regular Strike version?
I understand it's a Nightfall, it doesn't change my opinion. There are better and more interesting ways to add challenge than slapping a time limit on something.

It's a design team demanding that you play like they want instead of listening to their user base.

Was there anyone clamoring for the addition of a time limit?
 
It's a design team demanding that you play like they want instead of listening to their user base.
... you've always had to play like they want for Nightfall. That's the point of Nightfall. There's NFs where you can't jump because of a modifier that makes jumping triple your incoming damage. There's a modifier that functionally takes away your grenades and melee ability. There's modifiers that take away your radar.

There's a few head scratchers I have for D2 stuff. A NF time limit isn't one of them, but is rather expected, especially since a time limit mechanic exists in Destiny 1 right now and has for almost the past year with no major complaints that I've seen.
 
... you've always had to play like they want for Nightfall. That's the point of Nightfall. There's NFs where you can't jump because of a modifier that makes jumping triple your incoming damage. There's a modifier that functionally takes away your grenades and melee ability. There's modifiers that take away your radar.

There's a few head scratchers I have for D2 stuff. A NF time limit isn't one of them, but is rather expected, especially since a time limit mechanic exists in Destiny 1 right now and has for almost the past year with no major complaints that I've seen.
Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

Regarding Destiny 1, my opinion remains unswayed. It's just as bad there as it is here.

I would love to see the research Bungie did that determined that this is what the playerbase wanted and be proven wrong. Realistically however, I suspect that they didn't do any and made system-level changes because they didn't like how players were legitimately playing their game.
 
Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

Regarding Destiny 1, my opinion remains unswayed. It's just as bad there as it is here.

I would love to see the research Bungie did that determined that this is what the playerbase wanted and be proven wrong. Realistically however, I suspect that they didn't do any and made system-level changes because they didn't like how players were legitimately playing their game.
Your perception of how Bungie works internally and how they actually work internally don't match up. If it backfires, they'll remove it from the game. Just like they did with other things that didn't pan out or backfired in Destiny 1.
 
Speculation: I wonder if the time limits on the Nightfall are only in place in the Heroic mode. Might be one of the differentiating factors between it and normal.
 
Speculation: I wonder if the time limits on the Nightfall are only in place in the Heroic mode. Might be one of the differentiating factors between it and normal.
Seems reasonable.

Attacking a strike and seeing how best to deal with it with modifiers and without time constraints, and doing that with added difficulty and a time limit if you want the goodies. that would be fair and reasonable.
 
As long as the herioc/time limited is an extra reward im ok with it.

Normal nf, 1*legendary or exoctic reward
Herioc nf. 2*legendary or exoctic reward

If they drop the normal nf to blue rewards then screw that.
 
As long as the herioc/time limited is an extra reward im ok with it.

Normal nf, 1*legendary or exoctic reward
Herioc nf. 2*legendary or exoctic reward

If they drop the normal nf to blue rewards then screw that.
I kinda hated D1 NF rewards even though I usually got pretty lucky. Having the chance to just drop strange coins or 3oC was pretty bullshit and some of those exotics were NF drop only.
 
This is taken from Reddit user The_Doctor_Zoose, but it's a list, in order, of D1's missions, strikes and Raids. It also includes some of the remixed Strikes, so you could argue they hardly count as "new".

Seems when I said D2 will be D1 plus all DLC, I wasn't far off! I don't think D2 will get the same content outcry that D1 faced at launch.


The_Doctor_Zoose said:
ACT I: NOTHING LEFT BUT THE FALL

1. A Guardian Rises (Story - Earth - Fallen)
2. Restoration (Story - Earth - Fallen)
3. The Warmind (Story - Earth - Fallen)
4. The Last Array (Story - Earth - Fallen)
5. The Devil's Lair (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
ACT II: AGAINST THE HIVE

6. The Dark Within (Story - Earth - Hive)
7. The Dark Beyond (Story - Moon - Hive)
8. The World's Grave (Story - Moon - Hive)
9. Chamber of Night (Story - Moon - Hive)
10. The Summoning Pits (Strike - Moon - Hive)
ACT III: FRUIT OF THE GARDEN

11. A Stranger's Call (Story - Venus - Vex)
12. Ishtar Collective (Story - Venus - Vex)
13. Eye of a Gate Lord (Story - Venus - Vex)
14. Exclusion Zone (Story - Mars - Cabal)
15. Rising Tide (Story - Mars -Vex)
16. The Garden's Spire (Story - Mars - Cabal)
17. The Black Garden (Story - Mars - Vex)
INTERLUDE I: MARS, THE BRINGER OF WAR

18. The Buried City (Story - Mars - Cabal)
19. Cerberus Vae III (Strike - Mars - Cabal)
20. The Dust Palace (Strike - Mars - Cabal)
ACT IV: PRAEDYTH'S REVENGE

21. The Nexus (Strike - Venus - Vex)
22. The Archive (Story - Venus - Fallen)
23. The Vault of Glass (Raid - Venus - Vex)
ACT V: THE DARK BELOW

24. The Sword of Crota (Story - Moon - Hive)
25. Fist of Crota (Story - Earth - Hive)
26. Siege of the Warmind (Story - Earth - Hive)
27. The Wakening (Story - Moon - Hive)
28. Will of Crota (Strike - Earth - Hive)
29. Crota's End (Raid - Moon - Hive)
ACT VI: HOUSE OF WOLVES

30. Scourge of Winter (Story - Venus - Fallen)
31. Winter's Run (Strike - Venus - Fallen)
32. A Kell Rising (Story - Venus - Fallen)
33. The Silent Fang (Story - Earth - Fallen)
34. The Ruling House (Story - Earth - Fallen)
35. Wolves' Gambit (Story - Venus - Fallen)
36. Queen's Ransom (Story - Venus - Fallen)
37. The Shadow Thief (Strike - Moon - Fallen)
38. Skolas' Revenge (Raid† - Reef - Fallen)
INTERLUDE II: RETURN OF THE VEX

39. The Undying Mind (Strike - Venus - Vex)
40. Echo Chamber (Strike - Venus - Vex)††
ACT VII: ORYX, THE TAKEN KING

41. Shrine of Oryx (Story - Moon - Hive)
42. The Coming War (Story - Phobos - Taken)
43. Cayde's Stash (Story - Earth - Taken)
44. The Dreadnaught (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
45. The Sunless Cell (Strike - Dreadnaught - Hive)
46. Enemy of my Enemy (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
47. Lost to Light (Story - Moon - Taken)
48. The Promethean Code (Story - Earth - Taken)
49. Last Rites (Story - Moon - Taken)
50. Regicide (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
ACT VIII: THE TAKEN WAR

51. Shield Brothers (Strike - Dreadnaught - Cabal)
52. Blighted Coven (Story - Earth - Taken)
53. Paradox (Story - Venus - Taken)
54. Tenebrous Tunnels (Story - Mars - Taken)
55. Outbound Signal (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
56. Kings of Decay (Story - Earth - Taken)
57. Entropy's Pinnacle (Story - Venus - Taken)
58. Winter's Run (Taken) (Strike - Venus - Taken)
59. Summoner's Circle (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
60. Fear's Embrace (Story - Phobos - Taken)
ACT IX: KING'S FALL

61. King's Fall (Raid - Dreadnaught - Hive)
62. Pretender to the Throne (Story - Dreadnaught - Taken)
63. Blighted Chalice (Strike - Moon - Taken)
INTERLUDE III: WOLVES OF MARS

64. A New Den (Story - Mars - Fallen)
65. Knock, Knock (Story - Mars - Fallen)
66. Prime's Path (Story - Mars - Fallen)
ACT X: RISE OF IRON

67. Fallen S.A.B.E.R. (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
68. King of the Mountain (Story - Earth - Fallen)
69. The Walls Come Down (Story - Earth - Fallen)
70. The Plaguelands (Story - Earth - Fallen)
71. Download Complete (Story - Mars - Cabal)
72. Iron Tomb (Story - Earth - Fallen)
73. Bad Blood (Story - Earth - Fallen)
74. The Wretched Eye (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
75. The Abomination Heist (Strike - Moon - Fallen)
76. Sepiks Perfected (Strike - Earth - Fallen)
77. Wrath of the Machine (Raid - Earth - Fallen)
 
Really don't understand the NF time limit hate. Have solo'd a bunch of them easily in the 30 minutes we get now.

Yeah, some modifier/strike combos are a ballache and some are ridiculously fun; I expect this to continue.
 
This is taken from Reddit user The_Doctor_Zoose, but it's a list, in order, of D1's missions, strikes and Raids. It also includes some of the remixed Strikes, so you could argue they hardly count as "new".

Seems when I said D2 will be D1 plus all DLC, I wasn't far off! I don't think D2 will get the same content outcry that D1 faced at launch.
Except the "80 missions" number for D2 likely includes all the missions and sidequests in the patrol mode. In terms of simply story missions and strikes, we'll probably get the same amount as D1.

But that's not bad to me at all, because D2 will have way more patrol stuff to do. The problem with D1 was that the story and strike missions were pretty much the ONLY thing in the game with meat
 
Axiomatic "Mechanics x is always Bad" takes never work out that well.

Time limits sound great, and it's kind of exactly what Nightfalls has needed. Iteration 1 had great tension, but it resorted to cheesing strategies that weren't that fun to execute. Iteration 2 had standard play, but the whole activity was pretty boring.

I think people failing out of NFs multiple times is great,

Timeouts in gemeral are an under appreciated mechanic
 
Except the "80 missions" number for D2 likely includes all the missions and sidequests in the patrol mode. In terms of simply story missions and strikes, we'll probably get the same amount as D1.

But that's not bad to me at all, because D2 will have way more patrol stuff to do. The problem with D1 was that the story and strike missions were pretty much the ONLY thing in the game with meat
FWIW a number of the listed missions here are sidequests from ttk. Just the named parts of the missions you'd fly into though.
 
Except the "80 missions" number for D2 likely includes all the missions and sidequests in the patrol mode. In terms of simply story missions and strikes, we'll probably get the same amount as D1.

But that's not bad to me at all, because D2 will have way more patrol stuff to do. The problem with D1 was that the story and strike missions were pretty much the ONLY thing in the game with meat
Of course, but we also know there's 50+ cutscenes, more so than the original plus extra content.

All we can assume I guess, is D2 is a meatier game than the first. That's not hard given the state of vanilla Destiny, but still. I'd bet anything that D2's campaign is significantly longer than D1's.

Something really interesting in the interview is Mark Noseworthy says, in relation to the lack of progression and so much content, that a one point they realized at hour 55, progression was done yet there were still things to do.

Hour 55 and we're probably going to be still progessing (after they readjusted things)!? I know some will be cynical and just say they've slowed the progression down and made the grind real, but you'd have to imagine that like The Taken King, we're going to have quests and side quests and all the other new mechanics coming out of wars.

I also still think we're getting a third subclass per class and they're just keeping quiet.
 
See... everyone criticized me for saying Bungie be removing content just so they can sell it back to the customers, I said it before and I’ll say it again I’m not buying this game till all the DLC is finished, see ya September 2019 Bungie and that’s if the Game is even worth buying by then.
Okay enjoy missing out the fun of Year 1 and have the game outdated by the time Destiny 3 is released
 
See... everyone criticized me for saying Bungie be removing content just so they can sell it back to the customers, I said it before and I’ll say it again I’m not buying this game till all the DLC is finished, see ya September 2019 Bungie and that’s if the Game is even worth buying by then.
There hasn't been content held back to become DLC in Destiny's entire history though. What was done at the time was what went out.

And before people post early screenshots of areas that showed up prerelease.. Bungie makes geometry first, and actually makes it playable after, so no, that wasn't finished content.
 
Hour 55 and we're probably going to be still progessing (after they readjusted things)!? I know some will be cynical and just say they've slowed the progression down and made the grind real, but you'd have to imagine that like The Taken King, we're going to have quests and side quests and all the other new mechanics coming out of wars.

I also still think we're getting a third subclass per class and they're just keeping quiet.
Oh you will, for sure. In next year expansion.

Also, if we're still leveling to level 20 after 55 hours (that's what I hear when they say "progressing", but I might be wrong ofc)...

There hasn't been content held back to become DLC in Destiny's entire history though. What was done at the time was what went out.

And before people post early screenshots of areas that showed up prerelease.. Bungie makes geometry first, and actually makes it playable after, so no, that wasn't finished content.
Hmm, no, you don't make the geometry first, at least not with that much details we saw during launch trailers and other promoting videos. Content was clearly playable, but it didn't make the cut, somehow like Halo 2 content was cut even if it was playable (but not finished entirely). You may make grey boxes and a vertical slice, but that's something else.

For D1, we could even go to areas before having the DLC by glitching out of the map, so I would be a soft lie to tell Bungie didn't cut content to put in the future DLCs. But it would be true to say the content they cut for DLCs wasn't 100% finished at the time the game launched, for sure, I agree.

Okay enjoy missing out the fun of Year 1 and have the game outdated by the time Destiny 3 is released
Having two primaries already take out the fun (at least for me), so I won't be bothered if I miss year 1 and start the game in Year 2 with the latest expansion and all the year 1 DLCs.
 
Ppl worried about the "time limit" really?

We were soloing nightfalls in under 15 minutes while having a 30 min goal for strike scoring... we will be fine. Chill.
Really depends on how strict the time limit is and what the rewards are. Some people (myself included) find time limits to be horribly oppressive regardless of length.

If it results in player behavior where people bail the moment certain milestones aren't reached at par time? That's going to be a pretty negative experience for all involved.

As I brought up before in this thread, I hope Bungie did their UX research for this choice.
 
They'd be better off having each strike segment be time limited rather than the whole thing, that way people wouldn't drop and it's allowing you the chance to actually learn from the encounter. Making you do the whole strike over from the start is just a waste of everybody's time and is going to encourage the most cookie cutter builds imaginable as the penalty for failure is so high time wise.
 
Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.
They've made universal changes before when they abandoned 'kick-to-orbit.'
They also force playstyles right now. Solo speed-running means it's very possible that you don't score high enough to complete the Sunrise bounty. Bungie actually punished efficiency in Nightfalls and quite a few PoE events.

The amount of fun challenging content in Destiny is extremely limited. Getting more end-game challenge is a good thing.
 
Not too surprised about the time limit. They spoke at length about how much they liked the results from the Black Spindle quest and were interested in expanding that concept. I'm not sure if I'll like it but I'll wait to see how it's implemented before criticizing it too heavily.
 
Oh you will, for sure. In next year expansion.

Also, if we're still leveling to level 20 after 55 hours (that's what I hear when they say "progressing", but I might be wrong ofc)...

*snip*
There's enough out there to suggest they are in.

With the effort they're making to address the first game's negatives (cinematic campaign, variety of content, a lack of accessibility for the end game content etc), it would be more surprising that they're not in there to be honest.

Despite all we know, Bungie are still holding stuff back. Some pessimists think that's because there isn't anything to show. They wouldn't hint at more though, if that were the case.
 
Yes, weekly modifiers and not universal rule changes. We're talking about a change that affects all Nightfalls at all times. If they removed jumping from all Nightfalls my critique would remain the same.

Regarding Destiny 1, my opinion remains unswayed. It's just as bad there as it is here.

I would love to see the research Bungie did that determined that this is what the playerbase wanted and be proven wrong. Realistically however, I suspect that they didn't do any and made system-level changes because they didn't like how players were legitimately playing their game.
Not every design choice needs to respect what players want
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
Yes. They've created a normal version of the Nightfall, which kind of defeats the purpose of the Nightfall. No one is going to play that.
The normal level Nightfalls are likely going to be part of the natural progression that gets our Guardians up to light levels appropriate for the Heroic Nightfalls, which in turn will lead to the normal level Raid.
 
Perhaps the Nightfall time limit rises from Bungie's hopes to force planning out your subclass abilities and loadouts before activities a little more. I'm stoked about the amount of content because I never had a problem putting in hundreds of hours before.
 
If it is, i'm really surprised, especially after the big deal they made about it being on the Blizzard launcher. Wonder if pre-orders for PC weren't as high as they wanted? Can't imagine they'd jump at the chance to give up a chunk of sales to Valve, especially with how well Destiny sells without it.
 
If it is, i'm really surprised, especially after the big deal they made about it being on the Blizzard launcher. Wonder if pre-orders for PC weren't as high as they wanted? Can't imagine they'd jump at the chance to give up a chunk of sales to Valve, especially with how well Destiny sells without it.
Yes, I am just confused by this, because this is a Destiny 1 item.