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[PepsimanVsJoe]

So it's wrong to be excited about this game. Oh okay then I'll just say it sucks, makes everything nice and easy.

 

[Frenck]

That mainstream audience being the console users. It didn't even play like a normal PC FPS.
Anyway so far aside from a few doubtfull points like the VATS system I'm positive about the game.

It didn't play like a console shooter either.

I've never seen another shooter with "universal ammo" or whatever that crap was. The dumbing down was a design choice and if you want to attract a large audience you should release the game on as many platforms as possible (Which was the Xbox and the PC at the time).

Actually there was pretty good PS2 version of the original Deus Ex:

A port of the game, titled Deus Ex: The Conspiracy, was also released for the PlayStation 2 game console, on March 25, 2002. Along with pre-rendered introductory and ending cinematics which replaced the original versions, it features a streamlined interface with auto aim, and improved graphics and motion captured character models. Some levels were changed and chopped down into smaller areas separated by load-screens, due to the memory limitations of the PlayStation 2.

As I said, technical limitations are one thing but the game itself was intact.

 

[Relix]

Things change... don't be so purists for gods sake. Everything needs to evolve for better or worse. For example, I prefer Oblivion to Morrowind or Daggerfell millions of times because there are markers and instant travel, it isn't fun having to walk three hours to a town and then find out by clues that what you are looking isn't there. Oblivion put markers and made things more enjoyable. Stop your whining... my god.... you haven't even played the game and you are sending it to its doom.

 

[Muppet345]

I love watching the NMA manbabies cry.

 

[Spruce Moose]

Must be nice going through life as a jaded gamer. I'd find a new hobby .

Funny you use the word jaded because it was Jade Empire that made me so ... umm, jaded. :lol

I would love to eat crow here, but the last few years have proven that developers and their publishers push the graphic end of things and leave the game play at a very simple level. This is disappointing because I believe they could put out RPGs on consoles that have the depth of something like Baldur's Gate II and it could sell millions. I think console gamers would love it! Instead we get games like the aforementioned Jade Empire and Oblivion and it's super shitty scaled leveling system.

I think we (us old PC guys and the new xbox crowd) deserve better. Don't you?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

This is disappointing because I believe they could put out RPGs on consoles that have the depth of something like Baldur's Gate II and it could sell millions.

Yeah that's not happening, no way in hell.
Only way you're going to expand the market is through consolization.

I figure with the direction Fallout 3 is going in it'll sell really well. Slap the "From the makers of Oblivion" on the box and it'll sell on name alone. Make a good game and it'll sell via that manner. The only people who aren't happy about it make up less than 5% of the gaming populace...no reason to cater to them at the expense of the other 95%.

 

[Prime crotch]

It didn't play like a console shooter either.

I've never seen another shooter with "universal ammo" or whatever that crap was. The dumbing down was a design choice and if you want to attract a large audience you should release the game on as many platforms as possible (Which was the Xbox and the PC at the time).

But this new broader audience was more significant on the console market, you can't serisouly expect me to belive that they had in mind PC players. Deus Ex 1 was best selling game on the PC and suddendly for the sequel they are going to dumb dowb everything because that's what sold the first game?
The entire game seems to have been developed to Xbox then ported to PC. Even the HUD looks bad in higher resolutions.

Also the PS2 version, don't have exact numbers though, didn't sold that well so the first game didn't appeal this broader audience it seems.

 

[Spruce Moose]

Yeah that's not happening, no way in hell.
Only way you're going to expand the market is through consolization.

I figure with the direction Fallout 3 is going in it'll sell really well. Slap the "From the makers of Oblivion" on the box and it'll sell on name alone. Make a good game and it'll sell via that manner. The only people who aren't happy about it make up less than 5% of the gaming populace...no reason to cater to them at the expense of the other 95%.

But why, dear God! WHY?!?!?

Now I know what it feels like to be a minority.

 

[Masklinn]

Did you also lament the Xbox verison of Morrowind?

I don't think the Xbox version of Morrowind had any impact, design or otherwise, on the PC version of Morrowind.

Stop your whining... my god.... you haven't even played the game and you are sending it to its doom.

People look at the past few years, and see what happened to the old PC franchises that were multiplatformed. And it's not pretty. Even though the game isn't out yet, there are definitely reasons to be circumspect.

 

[Draft]

Geez. Something about Fallout, just FIRES people up. Hahaha. Anyway it's fine if you're excited about the game. Different strokes and all that. Me personally, aside from the environment and human character visuals, think it looks pretty iffy. Definitely has that console "feel." Everyone doesn't have to be such a dick about it though. I don't think you're stupid for looking forward to the game, so it would be nice if I wasn't called a NMA shock trooper or crying manchild for voicing a few concerns about radical changes to my favorite neglected RPG franchise.

 

[Frenck]

But this new broader audience was more significant on the console market, you can't serisouly expect me to belive that they had in mind PC players. Deus Ex 1 was best selling game on the PC and suddendly for the sequel they are going to dumb dowb everything because that's what sold the first game?
The entire game seems to have been developed to Xbox then ported to PC. Even the HUD looks bad in higher resolutions.

As I said, you can blame the console version for the technical limitations of the game like the interface or the smaller areas and long loading times but what does the gameplay and the story design have to do with the platform the game is released on?

There are hardcore gamers on both platforms who enjoy non-dumbed down versions of games like Deus Ex or Morrowind for example. They could've easily targeted both groups and shoved their universal ammo up where the sun doesn't shine.

Ion Storm was targeting a broader audience both on the PC and the Xbox and they failed miserably.

The level of simplicity of IW was too much even for the Xbox audience. Deus Ex on PS2 was just fine, all the abilities and most of the dialogue (except for one line) made it over intact, all the complexity was there and Morrowind sold more than 2 million copies on the Xbox. There is a significant target group for complex PC games on consoles.

Bethesda is aiming for that group with Fallout 3.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

So it's wrong to be excited about this game. Oh okay then I'll just say it sucks, makes everything nice and easy.

no its not wrong, Hell I am, Ive been replaying fallout 1 and now 2 and after weeks and weeks and weeks of isometric combat im ready for something different.


at least you guys are getting a sequel somewhere in the vein of the franchise, shadowrun fans got ****ed total and X-Com fans have been hung out to dry for like, ever.......

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I saw the magazine, and wow, as a massive but level-headed (unlike the poseurs at NMA and others on here) Fallout fanboy (my fav PC RPG ever), I am impressed. This is Fallout. Outside of the underwhelming art direction with the supermutant, it looks and feels like the Fallout universe is in tact.

:lol @ the people saying a nuclear slingshot is out of place in the Fallout 'verse. I remember using the LE Red Ryder BB gun and tearing ass for most of FO1. A slingshot isn't out of place at all.

:lol @ the giant radscorpions fit in the "realistic" future. How about the giant aliens? Or the wanamingos?

Fallout was not about the combat system or perspective. Simply slapping a isometric view with a turn based combat system does not make a Fallout game. Just like a first person perspective does not make an Oblivion clone.

 

[TemplaerDude]

i have faith.

 

[Draft]

The BB Gun was a joke weapon. Is the nuclear slingshot a joke? I mean, obviously it is (haha), but let's be real here, it indicates a shift in design philosophy. It's silly in a different way than the BB Gun. The Red Ryder, the alien Zap Gun... they were nudge nudge wink wink silly. Nuclear Slingshot. I dunno. Just feels off. Feels stupid.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

I saw the magazine, and wow, as a massive but level-headed (unlike the poseurs at NMA and others on here) Fallout fanboy (my fav PC RPG ever), I am impressed. This is Fallout. Outside of the underwhelming art direction with the supermutant, it looks and feels like the Fallout universe is in tact.

:lol @ the people saying a nuclear slingshot is out of place in the Fallout 'verse. I remember using the LE Red Ryder BB gun and tearing ass for most of FO1. A slingshot isn't out of place at all.

:lol @ the giant radscorpions fit in the "realistic" future. How about the giant aliens? Or the wanamingos?

Fallout was not about the combat system or perspective. Simply slapping a isometric view with a turn based combat system does not make a Fallout game. Just like a first person perspective does not make an Oblivion clone.

I seem to remember punching giant ANTS starting fallout 2 for half an hour also.

 

[Jenga]

Although I hate it'll be an First-person/third-person hybrid like Oblivion, I'm so ****ing happy there is no level scaling.

 

[Prime crotch]

As I said, you can blame the console version for the technical limitations of the game like the interface or the smaller areas and long loading times but what does the gameplay and the story design have to do with the platform the game is released on?

Because the simplistic FPS IW was would have a higher appeal in the Xbox, doesn't matter if there are hardcore players on both platforms, the decision made by Ion Storm to dumb down Deus Ex was based on focusing on the Xbox.
The original game was a commercial and critical sucess on the PC, how is the dumbing down of very thing that sold your game to its original audience not involved with its development being focused on a console now?

Ion Storm did dropped the ball maybe Deus Ex IW could have been made for both platforms with the same old gameplay, in their HQ someone thought it couldn't be done and that's what we got.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

If I can knock big chunks out of people with a roundhouse kick in first person then I figure the game is totally worth it. That was always the high point for me in Fallout, getting those critical hits and watching people die shitty deaths. Being able to do that up close is going to be nice.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

Because the simplistic FPS IW was would have a higher appeal in the Xbox, doesn't matter if there are hardcore players on both platforms, the decision made by Ion Storm to dumb down Deus Ex was based on focusing on the Xbox.
The original game was a commercial and critical sucess on the PC, how is the dumbing down of very thing that sold your game to its original audience not involved with its development being focused on a console now?

Ion Storm did dropped the ball maybe Deus Ex IW could have been made for both platforms with the same old gameplay, in their HQ someone thought it couldn't be done and that's what we got.

which to me was crappy because before I got a gaming pc I loved deus ex on psx, and it was pretty damn faithful.

 

[Night_Trekker]

The BB Gun was a joke weapon. Is the nuclear slingshot a joke? I mean, obviously it is (haha), but let's be real here, it indicates a shift in design philosophy. It's silly in a different way than the BB Gun. The Red Ryder, the alien Zap Gun... they were nudge nudge wink wink silly. Nuclear Slingshot. I dunno. Just feels off. Feels stupid.

Maybe the name is supposed to be humorous, poking fun at how low-powered it is.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

The BB Gun was a joke weapon. Is the nuclear slingshot a joke? I mean, obviously it is (haha), but let's be real here, it indicates a shift in design philosophy. It's silly in a different way than the BB Gun. The Red Ryder, the alien Zap Gun... they were nudge nudge wink wink silly. Nuclear Slingshot. I dunno. Just feels off. Feels stupid.

Does it actually say it shoots warheads or something? Maybe I missed it, :lol. If so, then I see you're point, but I doubt it does.

That said, how is it off? Seems like Bethesda is totally invoking the Red Ryder BB gun with this. Do you think the rest of the armaments will include whoopie cushion bombs, laughing gas grenades and giant rubber mallets or something? It's one weapon, and I totally believe it's a joke weapon in the same vein as the BB gun. You're not going to take down a supermutant with a slingshot.

Maybe the name is supposed to be humorous, poking fun at how low-powered it is.

Bingo! We have a winner. Someone gets it.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

That said, how is it off? Seems like Bethesda is totally invoking the Red Ryder BB gun with this. Do you think the rest of the armaments will include whoopie cushion bombs, laughing gas grenades and giant rubber mallets or something? It's one weapon, and I totally believe it's a joke weapon in the same vein as the BB gun. You're not going to take down a supermutant with a slingshot.

I dunno. Watch there be a hidden "special edition" slingshot in the game that's really kickass(like the special edition BB gun in Fallout).

I loved using that thing, sniping people in the eyes and killing them instantly.

And seriously when your stats are high enough you can kill practically anything in maybe one or two attacks. I had no trouble taking out most people with a punch to the head. Granted the punch only did like 1-2 hp but it would crit and the guy would be dead. That required having unarmed out the wazoo along with a bunch of talents but if it can done it can be done.

Crits are random and serious things, a good stone to the head could take the Super Mutant out David & Goliath style.

 

[Draft]

That said, how is it off? Seems like Bethesda is totally invoking the Red Ryder BB gun with this. Do you think the rest of the armaments will include whoopie cushion bombs, laughing gas grenades and giant rubber mallets or something? It's one weapon, and I totally believe it's a joke weapon in the same vein as the BB gun. You're not going to take down a supermutant with a slingshot.

The article explicitly describes the nuclear slingshot being used to take down the 20 foot tall cyber super mutant (uuuuuuugh.) I don't think it's meant to make you chuckle.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

The article explicitly describes the nuclear slingshot being used to take down the 20 foot tall cyber super mutant (uuuuuuugh.) I don't think it's meant to make you chuckle.

That made me chuckle, actually. Because I am certain it's all tongue in cheek. Bethesda gave a demo to GI for their cover story. Is it really inconceivable that they threw in overpowered slingshot (in the vein of the LE Red Ryder; meaning it's hidden in the game and will have a "realistic" underpowered one) to show that they "get" the humor? I think it is.

I dunno. Call me an optimist, but I think it's an obvious joke weapon.

 

[Prime crotch]

It's not a slingshot it's a weapon called Fatman, from the screens it seems to be some kind of home-made device that throws nukes, well less powered ones.

 

[Draft]

I would not say it's inconceivable, but I also wouldn't say it's likely.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

It's not a slingshot it's a weapon called Fatman, from the screens it seems to be some kind of home-made device that throws nukes, well less powered ones.

So you're telling me this whole debate has been for naught? :lol

 

[Frenck]

Because the simplistic FPS IW was would have a higher appeal in the Xbox, doesn't matter if there are hardcore players on both platforms, the decision made by Ion Storm to dumb down Deus Ex was based on focusing on the Xbox.
The original game was a commercial and critical sucess on the PC, how is the dumbing down of very thing that sold your game to its original audience not involved with its development being focused on a console now?

Ion Storm did dropped the ball maybe Deus Ex IW could have been made for both platforms with the same old gameplay, in their HQ someone thought it couldn't be done and that's what we got.

Well, I guess you're right after all. Ion Storm miscalculated everything about the game. I think the dumbed down IW might have appealed more to PC gamers than console gamers in the end. I know some PC gamers who thought it was a pretty good game while all the console gamers I know think it's unplayable.

So it kind of backfired on them.

 

[Prime crotch]

So you're telling me, this whole debate has been for naught? :lol

Yup

I would not say it's inconceivable, but I also wouldn't say it's likely.

eh I would like to have a clearer shot of it first, but calling it a nuclear slingshot totally gives the wrong idea
Anyway so far I'm positive about the game, more than I began if Bethesda can show me some good ol' Fallout humour I'm sold.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

So you're telling me this whole debate has been for naught? :lol

::smacks forehead::
Dammit!

 

[Zenith]

Does it actually say it shoots warheads or something?

it shoots Fatmans. it's not an actual slingshot (hard to see). looks like a really big rocket launcher. or maybe some sort of industrial catapult. but no it's not a Dennis the Menace style slingshot. and the BB gun is back. you get it as a birthday present (along with your wrist computer) when you're 12 years old which serves as a weapons tutorial. when you're 2, you learn to walk and that serves as the movement tutorial

I'm not really liking the design style of the enemies.

also they sound so proud when they say you get penalised for using the normal FPS combat (or "twitch combat" as they call it). you're forced to pause the combat and pick a spot to target and need to recharge your action points in order to get any effective damage. have they never heard of hitboxes? when are devs going to learn, clunky != tactical.

 

[Drek]

So you're telling me this whole debate has been for naught? :lol

Yeah, the setting presented is you see a giant super mutie come running at you and the BoS you're now hanging with, you scoop a "Fatman", i.e. handheld nuclear launcher up from the ground and use it to kill the super mutie.

This occurred in a demo that, by GI's relaying of information, started with you stepping out of the vault. So we're supposed to believe its a tense, survival focused, piece mailing equipment together style of game but an hour in BAM! you got yourself a nuke cannon and hanging out with the BoS.

Its not being used as a joke, at least not in the setting its being presented in. Its a serious situation with NO diversity in choice, just blow 'em up with big guns Oblivion style "puzzle solving". It epitomizes everything this game shouldn't be.

Prior to that I was loving it. Not real crazy with the first mutant's art design, but much of the ideas and gameplay changes sounded very promising. Who knows though, the game is a long ways off so this stuff could still be very raw. I'm approaching it with an open mind, I just hope Bethesda takes a strong look at the criticisms form this first preview.

also they sound so proud when they say you get penalised for using the normal FPS combat (or "twitch combat" as they call it). you're forced to pause the combat and pick a spot to target and need to recharge your action points in order to get any effective damage. have they never heard of hitboxes? when are devs going to learn, clunky != tactical.

Thats how Fallout combat should work though. It doesn't have to be clunky if the interface is done well. Fallout wasn't clunky, expanding upon that mechanic can only result in good things. Like I said in my last post, the VATS system is, to me, the most promising choice they've made so far. If balanced right it'll make the major battles tense and strategic while the easier random encounters will be quickly dispatched.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

unless it blows out in your face every time you try to use it, no.

And even if it does, I still don't.

I can't speak for the final quality of Fallout 3, but you do realize the Wham-O slingshots were big in the 50's, as was the whole nuclear-thing, which was considered the way of the future, so a nuclear-based Wham-O slingshot fits in well with the whole retro-future thing IMO.

 

[Drek]

I can't speak for the final quality of Fallout 3, but you do realize the Wham-O slingshots were big in the 50's, as was the whole nuclear-thing, which was considered the way of the future, so a nuclear-based Wham-O slingshot fits in well with the whole retro-future thing IMO.

ITS NOT A SLINGSHOT. Its called Fatman, and its described in the article as a "handheld nuclear weapon". It doesn't even look like a slingshot. Think small rail gun that fires spherical projectiles.

The whole slingshot thing is the more cynical among us making a joke of how ridiculous it is.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

ITS NOT A SLINGSHOT. Its called Fatman, and its described in the article as a "handheld nuclear weapon". It doesn't even look like a slingshot. Think small rail gun that fires spherical projectiles.

The whole slingshot thing is the more cynical among us making a joke of how ridiculous it is.

::smacks forehead again::

I'm an idiot.

 

[joezombie]

The combat sounds a little sketchy at this point, but otherwise I'm sold

 

[Fallout-NL]

I can't speak for the final quality of Fallout 3, but you do realize the Wham-O slingshots were big in the 50's, as was the whole nuclear-thing, which was considered the way of the future, so a nuclear-based Wham-O slingshot fits in well with the whole retro-future thing IMO.

They should make ammo extremely expensive or rare though, which Im sure they will.



Anyway, these scans looked good, they really nailed the visual aspect imho. And it's a little too early to be bitching about gameplay. And using the pipboy to listen to 40s and 50s music.. come on, that's enough to sell me right there.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

ITS NOT A SLINGSHOT. Its called Fatman, and its described in the article as a "handheld nuclear weapon". It doesn't even look like a slingshot. Think small rail gun that fires spherical projectiles.

The whole slingshot thing is the more cynical among us making a joke of how ridiculous it is.

As a potential-future-long-time Fallout 3 fan, I am now disappointed that there is no Wham-O Nuclear Slingshot, it just doesn't seem to fit the classic "pre-launch Fallout 3 magazine preview misunderstood cynical example based expectation of a humorous starting weapon" that we have all come to know and love, in the future, but not really, because Bethesda screwed it up.

 

[besada]

I don't think you're stupid for looking forward to the game, so it would be nice if I wasn't called a NMA shock trooper or crying manchild for voicing a few concerns about radical changes to my favorite neglected RPG franchise.

You have the actual NMA shock troopers to thank for that. Never has there been such a truly obnoxious fanbase. More importantly, the repeated exclusion of Fallout fans who happen to have a different opinion than the NMAtards is the real problem. The assumption that anyone who doesn't hate any Bethesda Fallout isn't a "real" Fallout fan hangs around the NMAers like funky cologne.

I completely understand why some people are upset. I do think that anyone who thought the new Fallout would be iso/real-time hasn't been paying attention to the changing world around them. And since that's the biggest beef of the NMAers, it's a little hard to take them seriously.

To me, it looks like Bethesda has gone out of their way to make the the most obnoxious fanbase in the world happy, and yet before even the first image was shown, we had people filling every thread with the hate.

Let's look at the really common checklists the NMAers have:

Gore: Check.
Multiple styles of gameplay: Check.
Adherence to the Fallout gameworld: Check.
Ability to target body parts: Check.
Radiation damage: Check.
Possibility of winding up an armless/eyeless guy: Check.
No level scaling: Check.
Iso/real-time: Are you crazy?

That's really it. The only major deviation I know of so far is real-time/iso. And yet it's impossible to get on a thread to discuss the game without wading through shitty posts like Borys's where he not only blames all console gamers, but makes it clear that the game is going to be shit. Over and over again.

That's why there's so much bad blood in these things. It just so happens that there'sa special forum dedicated to shitting all over Bethesda. It's called No Mutants Allowed, and I'm sure they'd love to have Borys and the rest of the shitters there to add to their mewling chorus.

You, on the other hand, seem pretty rational about the whole thing. It's not going to be a perfect recreation of Fallout, and I think deep down everyone knew that. But that doesn't mean it's going to suck. Trying to constantly compare it to its forefathers is just going to make everyone unhappy. They will be different beasts, because they're made at different times for different platforms. But none of that means they're automatically going to suck.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

It's not going to be a perfect recreation of Fallout, and I think deep down everyone knew that. But that doesn't mean it's going to suck. Trying to constantly compare it to its forefathers is just going to make everyone unhappy. They will be different beasts, because they're made at different times for different platforms. But none of that means they're automatically going to suck.

Great post...even the parts I didn't quote.

This whole Fallout 3/NMA/Bethesda thing reminds of an old PA comic:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/01

Bethesda is definitely trapped in a variation of "Level 12"...

 

[Borys]

That's why there's so much bad blood in these things. It just so happens that there'sa special forum dedicated to shitting all over Bethesda. It's called No Mutants Allowed, and I'm sure they'd love to have Borys and the rest of the shitters there to add to their mewling chorus.

Why would I be posting there? I registered on RPGCodex about 2 years ago. My total postcount there is something like 3 or 4. Even those guys are too hardcore for my tastes (I like jRPGs).

 

[Drek]

To me, it looks like Bethesda has gone out of their way to make the the most obnoxious fanbase in the world happy, and yet before even the first image was shown, we had people filling every thread with the hate.

Let's look at the really common checklists the NMAers have:

Gore: Check.
Multiple styles of gameplay: Check.
Adherence to the Fallout gameworld: Check.
Ability to target body parts: Check.
Radiation damage: Check.
Possibility of winding up an armless/eyeless guy: Check.
No level scaling: Check.
Iso/real-time: Are you crazy?

To the two I bolded, where did your "check" come from?

Adherence to the Fallout gameworld? Why? Because the main character wears a vault suit, they licensed the Ink Spots, and they've got Ron Perlman doing some voice work?

Meanwhile they apparently are depicting a group of BoS as incapable of handing a single big mutie with a club while you, 19 year old pup that you are fresh form a vault, can scoop up their guns and drop it.

Multiple styles of gameplay? Because they said you can blow up a car and sneak by enemies? In an hour of gameplay they didn't give any instances of multi-tiered quests with various choices, just glossed over the fact that it'll be there.

Those are the two most important things for Bethesda to get, and as of reading this preview I'm still just as skeptical as before that they either can't handle game design on that level or just don't want to because it might shake some of their console fans and make them less money.

I'm still keeping an open mind, but to act like Bethesda has come out and answered all questions with this preview is an irrational level of optimism. They came out and said all the right things while showing none of it. They've got tons of time though as well as the talent and resources to do it well. They just need to realize that you don't have to "consolize" a game for it to be popular and sell well on consoles.

Meanwhile I'm left hoping that Fargo and InXile can deliver something worthwhile in the near future with the Wasteland license.

 

[Durante]

Gore: Check.
Multiple styles of gameplay: Check.
Adherence to the Fallout gameworld: Check.
Ability to target body parts: Check.
Radiation damage: Check.
Possibility of winding up an armless/eyeless guy: Check.
No level scaling: Check.

In addition to Drek's very good points, there's an important checkmark you're missing: a meaningful dialog system that adapts to your character stats/traits. With good, witty writing. This is not something Bethesda has much experience delivering, and to me, it's much more important than, say, gore or the ability to target body parts.

Also, no level scaling isn't really a point. Level scaling is a bug, it's absence isn't a feature.

 

[Baryn]

The BB Gun was a joke weapon. Is the nuclear slingshot a joke? I mean, obviously it is (haha), but let's be real here, it indicates a shift in design philosophy. It's silly in a different way than the BB Gun. The Red Ryder, the alien Zap Gun... they were nudge nudge wink wink silly. Nuclear Slingshot. I dunno. Just feels off. Feels stupid.

It's a grenade launcher. You're cracked.

 

[besada]

To the two I bolded, where did your "check" come from?

Adherence to the Fallout gameworld? Why? Because the main character wears a vault suit, they licensed the Ink Spots, and they've got Ron Perlman doing some voice work?

Meanwhile they apparently are depicting a group of BoS as incapable of handing a single big mutie with a club while you, 19 year old pup that you are fresh form a vault, can scoop up their guns and drop it.

Multiple styles of gameplay? Because they said you can blow up a car and sneak by enemies? In an hour of gameplay they didn't give any instances of multi-tiered quests with various choices, just glossed over the fact that it'll be there.

Those are the two most important things for Bethesda to get, and as of reading this preview I'm still just as skeptical as before that they either can't handle game design on that level or just don't want to because it might shake some of their console fans and make them less money.

I'm still keeping an open mind, but to act like Bethesda has come out and answered all questions with this preview is an irrational level of optimism. They came out and said all the right things while showing none of it. They've got tons of time though as well as the talent and resources to do it well. They just need to realize that you don't have to "consolize" a game for it to be popular and sell well on consoles.

Meanwhile I'm left hoping that Fargo and InXile can deliver something worthwhile in the near future with the Wasteland license.

I'm saying I've seen no evidence that they haven't adhered to the world. Every single thing I've seen from the trailer and these shots fits easily into the FO world in my mind. I see people having problems with the supermutant and the mace he carries, but I don't really understand why, since there are hammers in the originals, and freakishly large mutants in the original. I've seen people complaining about possible underground tunnels (which DC has plenty of in the real world) but those people must not have played Fallout recently, because it's rife with narrow, claustrophobic tunnels. Giant mutant pigs and rats, anyone?

As for the BoS not being able to handle a mutant, what indication do you have that these BoS have anything in common with the ones we've met previously? They're on the opposite coast, and we have no idea how long after the war this is. Maybe these are proto-BoS, still weak and just getting by? And the 19 year old won the battle not with heroics, butwith his superior knowledge of old tech, something he should have from being vault born.

As for how complex the quests are going to be, neither of us have any idea. GI's coverage was glancing at best regarding the actual content of what they saw. Maybe it will be every bit as deep and complex as the originals. Maybe it will be deeper and maybe it will be shallow. In regards to my optimism, the fact that Bethesda has delivered this much and that the devs obviously (to me) seem to care about the franchise and are willing to put up with the never ending bullshit from the NMA crowds makes me think they're going to do their best to give us the rich and deep quests and side jobs we want. But let's not overglorify Fallout, either. For every complex quest, there were two "Find out who's killing my Brahmin" quests, every bit as simplistic as Oblivion. Bethesda can do good quests, but the ones in Oblivion are wildly uneven. The fact that the game apparently runs and looks great a year from release does give me optimism that they've created a schedule that will allow them to give the game the depth it deserves.

So, considering how much Bethesda has targeted this game at the fanbase, from using S.P.E.C.I.A.L. and VATS to letting people take the targeted shots we all want to take to yes, getting the Inkspots and Ron Perlman, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt. What is it (other than Oblivion, which is a different game, and targeted at a much wider audience [hence the T vs M ratings]) that makes you think they're going to do a crappy job?

 

[Clevinger]

Mindless negativity is just as bad, if not worse, than blind optimism.

Frankly, when people talk about NMA and their ilk, they aren't talking about the rational fans with reasonable concerns for the game. They're talking about quotes like this that make up the majority:

Holy crap. Betheda's Fallout 3 is going to be a veritable abomination. Frankly, I expected even worse from Bethesda, but seeing most of my worst nightmares in writing is nonetheless depressing, as if it crushes out the last tiny vestige of hope the existence of which I wasn't even aware of.

This is not Fallout.

I'm sorry. This looks like Oblivion with guns.

Oh yay, they even went as far as to make karmic traits XBox 360 achievements!

Yay whoring out the license for console gamers! YAY!

Notice the complete lack of the typical Falloutish visual style. It looks like FO: PoS.
Notice how completly forced and out of place the few references to Fallouts original style are

Uruk Hai mutants? WTF is this? Lord of the Atoms?

And from what i read .. vats sounds like the WORST absolute WORST combat system ever...

Is J.K. Rowling being consulted on the acronyms?

I would probably enjoy this game if it was called Super Mutant killing fest or whatever else than Fallout 3.

I mean the fact they are boasting to be using more pixel shaders 'than ever before' just on the pipboy is hardly encouraging, clearly they are more interested in making it shiney and gimmicky than anything else.

I don't like the fact that the storyline is locked so that you're playing a 19 year-old looking for his dad. That's so gay. 19? How are older gamers supposed to relate to playing a teenager?

It will be bad, it will be shallow, shiny, and gimmicky. It will try to emulate Fallout but it will fail miserably.

luckily we pc people can depend on talented modders whom I hope will shape back the game the way the fans wants it & all you console freak can just choke on it because you are in part responsible for the downfall of fallout....curse you all.

I can't sleep thanks to these scans.

It sucks to see that after 10 years of wait and anticipation, we now know for sure that.... Fallout is no more. Sad truth. Thanks BS-Corp.

AMEN!

Thats it!

I am done waiting for Fallout3.

I am done discussing at the Bethsoft Forums.

I won't be a part of the hype machine.

I will be indifferent to Fallout3 from now on until it comes out an "have a look" on it, if it is any good.

All the good parts in the article are just promises.

From now on believing in a good Fallout3 is like believing in Santa Clause

Only 14 skills? Lame. Go choke yourself Bethesda.

I need to get into the mind of devil so I can see if all of this is nothing but some king of a Sith mind trick.

Meh this isn't going to be FO3, dare say it could turn out to be an ok'ish/average game - but doubt I could put aside my bias enough to ever enjoy it...

Uhmmm..what the hell have they done to my favorite gaming franchise of all time. We waited patiently for years......for this.

I mean, jesus...

 

[Quazar]

:lol :lol :lol

Golden comments.

 

[Clevinger]

I've been real negative on the prospects of Fallout 3 for a while. Not because its Bethesda working on it, but because Van Buren was too damn far along to just get scrapped, when it would've given Fallout fans what they really wanted.

Actually, up until it was cancelled, a lot of the NMA type folk were saying Van Buren would be shit and a deviance from the original games. So much so that it prompted Josh Sawyer, then lead designer on the project, to produce this gem:

The point, in case zealots ever want to accept it, is that your tastes are not the only tastes in the world. Really, I know this may be hard to believe, but if you like playing a turn-based game set in three counties of Utah in 2242, and you like miniguns but don't like lasers, and you like the ratio of combat to dialogue to be about 4:1, and you like cars that look more like Buicks than Pontiacs, and you think 50s-style monsters are okay but 50s-style aliens aren't, and you think Max's jacket from Mad Max is okay but the football pad armour isn't, and you don't like it when italics are used in dialogue but you do like it when boldface is used, and you want it to be longer than 100 hours but no longer than 120 hours, and like games to be non-linear but only to a point, and like big cities, but only two because four is too much BUT HEY NOT THAT ONE, and you like the desert but don't mind a little grass BUT HEY NOT THAT MUCH BECAUSE IT'S NOT FALLOUT...I am terribly, terribly sorry, because we are not going to make a game just for you. We're not trying to make a game for everyone. Really, we aren't. But we're not making a game just for you and ten other angry guys with tastes that are narrower than a hallway in a camp of pygmy dwarves.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I have to agree with Beseda and Clevinger. I can't imagine, how at this point, any Fallout fan can be hating so much. Sure you can be concerned about dialogue or combat or whatever, but those magazine scans are really extremely awesome. As a fan of pretty much everything post-apocalyptic, Ive never seen anything portray it this well. Even if the dialogue is terrible, it'll still be great to walk around in.