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New FFXV battle system footage and details, playable characters clarified
- Thread starter Dark_castle
- Start date
I understand the issue completely.
I cannot at all comprehend how it's being discussed when no one has played the game.
We're talking about the feel of something none of us have felt. That's nonsensical.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Idk man, battling huge enemies in Souls has zero hitstun unless they're (rarely) staggered, and that shit feels really good.
It all comes down to sound and rumble imo
threelights
Member
I still think the hit detection is fine, just watch the video, you can clearly tell he's hitting the Behemoth, there's a very distinct sound.
Judging that stuff without ever playing the game is really dumb.
Also, as mentioned, Souls enemies feel great to hit, and a lot of times a wall reacts more than the enemy.
Judging that stuff without ever playing the game is really dumb.
Also, as mentioned, Souls enemies feel great to hit, and a lot of times a wall reacts more than the enemy.
MissDeviling
Member
No one's played it, but there's clearly a lack of visible reaction from the Behemoth. The player's just hacking away at it but there's no varying feedback from it. Why shouldn't the issue, at least on a visual level, be discussed?
You can discuss it all you want, I just think it's odd. It's two minutes of footage in a dev environment. I don't think this kind of scrutiny is necessary at this stage in the game.
you don't really understand. damage motion is used to convey power--when you finally stagger a stronger enemy, that's when that kind of animation comes into play. weaker enemies will animate/stagger on hit always, but I can't think of an action game that has powerful opponents who can be staggered immediately with normal attacks. that would actually break the gameplay in a lot cases because stagger animations interrupt attack animations. there's more to the 'feel' of an attack in action games than just damage motion (hit stop and sound design mainly).
just play/watch a boss fight in any other action game. bosses don't stagger until they reach a damage threshold.
badcrumble
Member
A lot of this also comes down to rumble and sound design so that there's still a good sense of feedback.
Kingdom Hearts is Strong in XV.
That camera going bonkers reminded me so much of KH2 when doing arena battles, this could be gloriously fun. I dislike the fact we can't change characters anymore but then at the same time they have made the battle system look interesting and justifiable enough to warrant it.
I'm not surprised that E3 was a prototype, there was just too much of a jump between then and TGS in quality for them not to be different graphics environments. I am laughing a bit that ebony is the prototype because what the fuck have they been doing all this time?
55% for that long in development is harsh but if it's just resource material they are working on then we know where all the people from FFXIV rebuild are right now, hi ho hi ho and back to work they go!
I like that evade costs MP (saves a stamina system lets be honest) as it adds a certain element of planning in how you are approaching your enemies. My question is though will it be worth getting that close to big monsters like behemoth or even little ones when you could just magic bomb them at a distance and zip away when they get close, rebuild you mp and repeat.
One of the big things I want to know is can the warp be aimed or are they all just environment locks that you can snap to, free aim is a win, present locations is not if that's all they are.
Going to be interesting to watch this further develop.
That camera going bonkers reminded me so much of KH2 when doing arena battles, this could be gloriously fun. I dislike the fact we can't change characters anymore but then at the same time they have made the battle system look interesting and justifiable enough to warrant it.
I'm not surprised that E3 was a prototype, there was just too much of a jump between then and TGS in quality for them not to be different graphics environments. I am laughing a bit that ebony is the prototype because what the fuck have they been doing all this time?
55% for that long in development is harsh but if it's just resource material they are working on then we know where all the people from FFXIV rebuild are right now, hi ho hi ho and back to work they go!
I like that evade costs MP (saves a stamina system lets be honest) as it adds a certain element of planning in how you are approaching your enemies. My question is though will it be worth getting that close to big monsters like behemoth or even little ones when you could just magic bomb them at a distance and zip away when they get close, rebuild you mp and repeat.
One of the big things I want to know is can the warp be aimed or are they all just environment locks that you can snap to, free aim is a win, present locations is not if that's all they are.
Going to be interesting to watch this further develop.
threelights
Member
The warp was always preset locations only (it's the blue indicator you see on the screen).
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
LOL, not I know where I've seen that.
I watched the live stream as it happened and nothing seems different from those previous comments.
If anything it was further clarifying how that system, outlined earlier, will work. Nothing of the aspect I commented on changed from the previous comments from him.
the_sun_king
Member
That 55% is counting from 2012 when the game switched over to development for PS4/Xbone instead of PS3.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Well, if yoiu compare it to a regular character action game, then yes, it's pretty much "Press X to Awesome".
But if you compare it with other FFs, this is among the least "Press X to Awesome" of them all.
Yeah but this is a demo essentially, it could be different in the retail game and that is what I'm curious about. They have such large environments to battle within that it would be such a waste if they keep it like it currently looks like with preset locations.
Don't get me wrong that's great when you in the need to snap out of danger and move around quickly but what about when you have a bit more room to think and want to tackle something with a bit more control over your actions.
Having it as always being preset kinda limits the possibility of the battle system and free-roaming out in the world which would be a pity.
That would make a bit more sense then.
I disagree based on current interviews, articles, and footage seen. The lack of party control further adds to this notion.
MissDeviling
Member
I feel like they don't need to have the monster flinch at every attack per se, but react so the player feels like, hey I'm not hitting something inorganic. Something like a headshake or a slight slowdown in its movement. You can have actual flinching without it breaking the game too (e.g. enemy attempts parry and counter attack after a number of successful hits, or the enemy changing to a long-range tactic). DMC3 Vergil comes to mind; he would interrupt your attacks with a parry and some counters after you hit him a bit (and he did stagger). At the very least, I think the Behemoth should have reacted a bit more even if attacks didn't cause it to flinch. Rewatching the gameplay, I'm not sure if its roars are random, but it doesn't really make me feel like the roar's reacting to the actual attacks. Perhaps it needs to be hit more, but given the number of hits inflicted on it, I'd like to see some visual feedback, if not feel it.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I'm curious about your definition of "Press X to Awesome", then. I mean, you just press X two times and Cloud does an Omnislash.
As long as my power isn't out when I drive home, I will type you out an answer from my computer.
It basically has to do with the "deck", the lack of variation of characters, and the newly mentioned analog changes and their effects described.
I kinda think of it like those games where they gave you a ton of options (can't remember the name atm), but there was no incentive to do anything than the rudimentary basics in combat because it was way easier to do.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
I really laugh at the random shitposts that drop by and goes "Wow, FF is a hack and slash now! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
It's like these people never heard of the term Action RPG, and that the game has been like so since 2006.
It's like these people never heard of the term Action RPG, and that the game has been like so since 2006.
If it turns out as fun as Nier I would be quite pleased!
threelights
Member
Making it preset doesn't mean making it bad.
So far we could see that you can use it to teleport to any enemies and to most places that would make sense (even the lamps in that demo area are possible targets).
During battle that only helps, since you won't be missing enemies or getting hit out of the animation while aiming.
For exploration they will probably just use it when there's something to see, otherwise there would just be too much stuff to explore (think about going atop every rooftop of every building, the top of every place, mountain etc, just to see if there's something there, which most of the time, there won't).
It's certainly limiting, but not bad.
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
But Noctis's actions are mostly determined by the conditions you set, sort of like gambits. Sure you press X for attacking and X+direction for attacking, but what attacks you are pulling off are determined by pre-set customization. I don't think the need for hit detection is as important here. Not to mention, yet again, it's still a WIP.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Because it's essentially a tech demo. There is no balance right now, placeholder character/enemy A.I. are mostly disabled, UI are incomplete, no Magic or techniques were used, no music and poor video quality.
Damerman
Member
this is what i want to know as well.
can you imagine telleporting to that terra-bridge looking thing and then dropping down from it?
I can understand your concerns there, although I don't really share them. I just think the whole "Press X to awesome" catch phrase hurts arguments because, as he has clarified, that isn't how the battle system is going to work. It's going to incorporate analog inputs, timing, and stringing together combos as he detailed last night among other things like special attacks(magic, maybe summons, maybe other things).
I realize to the diehard followers it comes across as an inflammatory reduction. I don't really see it as a negative, personally.
For instance, we still don't know if the skills for the skill button will be interesting/fun or not.
Very true. I'm not really saying that the battle system will be great, either. I don't know that until I play it. There is a very good chance I'll be as disappointed as I have been in the last couple Final Fantasies. It's just that catch-phrase irks me.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Sure if you only want to get through the main scenario. Dungeons and high difficulty setting are probably going to murder your ass if you go in with this mindset.
Hours Left
Member
The fact that Noctis is the only playable character currently is EXTREMELY lame. This one fact has deflated my hype considerably.
It's not acceptable, and I truly hope they change it.
It's not acceptable, and I truly hope they change it.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Since the combat is action-based, you'll be quite busy even with Noctis alone.
Whatever man, if they're listening, which they clearly are, I'm gonna make my voice be heard in the forums and elsewhere and be a skeptic.
I play a lot of character action games, Ōkami being my favourite game of all time, and since Noctis is essentially the only character, this is going to be a character action game.
The difference in Dark Souls is that the enemy actually gets hit. The Behemoth is barely getting hit in the video if at all sometimes. If they're gonna go the character action route, I wanna see it done right.
You don't have to play a game to see if it feels right sometimes. Visually, the dude isn't even hitting the Behemoth and numbers are appearing. That surely doesn't feel right.
I play a lot of character action games, Ōkami being my favourite game of all time, and since Noctis is essentially the only character, this is going to be a character action game.
The difference in Dark Souls is that the enemy actually gets hit. The Behemoth is barely getting hit in the video if at all sometimes. If they're gonna go the character action route, I wanna see it done right.
You don't have to play a game to see if it feels right sometimes. Visually, the dude isn't even hitting the Behemoth and numbers are appearing. That surely doesn't feel right.
Is Kingdom Hearts a character action game?
Oh wait, you say Okami is a character action game. We clearly have VERY different definitions of an already silly term. lol
threelights
Member
Yeah, sure, go right ahead. Tell us if you get anything.
Just don't tell them you think Okami is a character action game (Or Kingdom Hearts for that matter).
killatopak
Member
The game also hasn't come out not to mention even the demo. Maybe you shouldn't judge a game when it's not finished yet? Otherwise we'll have another Driveclub thread going on here.
It's a game made my Hideki Kamiya. I'm sure he knows a thing or two about action gameplay. It's also his most critically acclaimed game ever so it definitely holds its own.
When I said character action game, my point was you literally play as a single character. In that case, yes, KH is a character action game but is also a JRPG.
Genres are dumb, but I'm basically explaining who you control in the game. You control a single character.
In Kingdom Hearts you literally have stars and sparks flying off when you hit enemies. No visual feedback here. Is it really that hard to understand? I understand this is a work in progress but if they don't even know that this is an issue, then it's always gonna stay this way.
Just watch this video to see what I mean, Kingdom Hearts does it right.
“I get reports everyday from development staff about what was said on the internet. If we have material, I’d like to release development information again in a live broadcast like this on November 1.”
From Tabata himself.
Hours Left
Member
I don't care about only being able to control one character at a time, but I want the option to use someone other than Noctis.
They need to just skip this initial experimental phase and go right to the realization that no one wants this.
/eyes roll at light speed
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Note that I don't see it as a negative myself.
Literally, the first time I got enticed to play one is because my friend said "you only press X in this". And lo, I truly can just press X and then sit back, watching all these awesome stuff happening on screen. And I love that. And these are Final Fantasy to me: "characters" and "spectacle".
So when you say that FFXV is "Press X to Awesome", it got me confused. For instance, don't we need to be in the right position with the right timing? Else we risk counter-attack? Pressing X and getting attacked instead doesn't sound awesome to me.
It's a valid complaint. I don't see the issue.
Hours Left
Member
What I said was hardly outlandish.
killatopak
Member
It's cool. Let's just hope he hears you. The internet is a very vast place but I think neogaf would be one of the first places to look.
So over dramatic. Like, I get it, but there'll be plenty to keep track of and manage. You don't need to literally play Prompto etc. to have control over their actions. We've been over this.
My point is, the whole 'don't judge a game until it's out' is dumb. There's a reason why developers release updates like this...it's so we judge it. If the director encourages it then I don't see what your basis is.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
While I agree with you, I have this feeling that making everyone playable with differing playstyles would be a scope expansion that'd push the game back by 1-2 years.
donutzsick
Member
The "it's not acceptable" imo is pretty extreme. It is a design decision based on limited resources and a (self imposed) deadline. Saying the game is no longer acceptable because of that is your prerogative but it seems unreasonable to me.
Not really. People want to take direct control over other characters. There is nothing wrong with wanting that.
I didn't say there was.