Not sure what is disingenuous about my comment. I kind of tire of the immediate disliking of change this series gets with each installment of this series. I couldn't be more honest about this point of view.
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New FFXV battle system footage and details, playable characters clarified
- Thread starter Dark_castle
- Start date
Not sure what is disingenuous about my comment. I kind of tire of the immediate disliking of change this series gets with each installment of this series. I couldn't be more honest about this point of view.
threelights
Member
The same action log that is not showing the rest of the party's actions?
Tabata already said that it's not as simple as A for Awesome, I'll take his word over prototype UIs any day.
Supermanisdead
Member
But who says they have to change the fundamentals? All the characters are going to be fighting in your party - it's just that the CPU will be controlling them. Giving that control to the player would just create more options to play a character more suited to your style. Noctis hasn't shown any kind of ranged combat or AOE or heavy attacks, but obviously that kind of combat exists if the CPU is using them.
Everyone's combat style is already there. It's just not controllable.
Also, I don't know about Noctis being the character allowing others to use magic, so I can't comment on that. But it would be ridiculous for a single character to have every single magic skill and be able to use them all in a fast-paced action setting with no menus.
Because this same tired complaint of people wanting to stop any discussion they deem as negative because "you haven't played it," is really annoying.
Exentryk
Member
The log for other characters is clearly turned off. It's not showing anything for them.
It's showing Noctis's actions correctly though. You can see when he presses Guard/Dodge and Warp in various parts of the vid. If short warps were like you said, we should be seeing Attack press, then Guard, then Attack. And that's not the case here.
There's only one thing that I'm worried about. I hope Noctis doesn't improve so far beyond the other party members that they feel almost pointless. His warping looks really fun, but he's whooping all kinds of ass while the other guys are just taking it one at a time.
But then you don't exactly want all of them to be just as good as Noctis, because you want enemies alive just long enough to be able to enjoy all that warping goodness.
But then you don't exactly want all of them to be just as good as Noctis, because you want enemies alive just long enough to be able to enjoy all that warping goodness.
threelights
Member
Not necessarily, just because the AI is playing Prompto it doesn't mean they have a TPS battle system in there, far from it.
And Noctis already showed heavy attacks, and I'm pretty sure the magics will have AoE components to them (Tabata said they can even hurt you). And considering you can teleport to the enemy, I wouldn't be surprised if Noctis doesn't have ranged options other than magic.
There are ways to put every magic in one character, you don't have to map each different magic to a different button. You'll probably pick one from the menu and equip it (or more than one at the same time, who knows).
We don't even know that, people are just assuming that whenever "attack" appears on screen that the guy is holding one button the whole time, maybe the air dashes are also mapped to the attack button (maybe that's an example of attack + directional that Tabata said), Eight in Type-0 can do a dodge by pressing attack + left/right.
Exentryk
Member
If you studied the first gameplay demo during TGS, you can see the difference when attack is held, and pressed once.
Now, pressing directions while holding attack is fine, and is most likely how Noctis is moving around. Never disagreed there. But he is definitely holding Attack during that sequence. I am not arguing about maybes, but what's presented.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Maybe GAF can collect a wishlist for FFXV and pass on to Kagari if she can deliver to Tabata directly in an interview? lol
+ Switching party leader
+ Switching weapons mid-battle
+ Button presses rather than holding
+ Kingdom Hearts combat interface
+ Female character(s) in party
+ Confirm controllable airships
+ Return current Stella/Luna to OG Versus XIII Stella
+ Confirm darker/more mature story based on Versus XIII
+ Destructible environment
+ Red Blood
+ Release Date
+ Switching party leader
+ Switching weapons mid-battle
+ Button presses rather than holding
+ Kingdom Hearts combat interface
+ Female character(s) in party
+ Confirm controllable airships
+ Return current Stella/Luna to OG Versus XIII Stella
+ Confirm darker/more mature story based on Versus XIII
+ Destructible environment
+ Red Blood
+ Release Date
That still doesn't tell me why you said disengenious, but whatever. I'll just agree to disagree because I find the complaints about this series changing year after year to be equally annoying.
threelights
Member
Just rewatched that
The commands shown are Warp, Guard, Attack and Fire, there's no different command for when he just taps. The difference is that when he is not pressing anything, the log shows Warp (I already saw all of that, so it doesn't really change my point).
Having the attack button held down doesn't necessarily mean that it's the button doing all the dodging as well.
There are so many "maybe"s that I can raise here that just shows how useless it is to judge how easy the game will be without them saying it. Heck, maybe he IS just holding down attack and it's just the gambits being super well programmed, we know very little to say anything like that. And again, considering the actual TGS trailer doesn't even have that log, that's probably just for test purposes, so it doesn't need to be so accurate.
Exentryk
Member
You are changing your argument now. You initially thought you'd press attack - dodge - attack, but that is clearly not the case. He is indeed holding "Attack".
threelights
Member
Can't he press attack and dodge at the same time? How would the log respond then?
Can't the "dodge button" be attack+directional? That would mean he's holding down attack.
Can't he be pressing the dodge-attack fast enough so that the log doesn't change?
Can't the air dash be just the jump button? There's no command for jump on the log.
Lastly, it's not "just holding X" if he programmed gambits before.
I don't see where I changed my argument.
My point is, the game is not "A for Awesome", I was just referring to a specific scene. You asked how it worked according to me, that's how I think it happens: "Attack>Dodge>Attack>Dodge", that doesn't mean that it's true. Not being like this doesn't necessarily means that it's holding down a button for everything.
If your argument is that I was wrong saying that it was "Attack>Dodge>Attack>Dodge", then sure, you're probably right, that's just what I think, that's what you asked for, right?
edit: I have to leave for now, I'll continue later if you want.
killatopak
Member
This seems like a good idea. I say go for it. I wanna know if there are casinos too.
People should get over the combat changes. Let them stick to their guns.
The bolded are what I really care about at the moment. The rest I think I can wait to hear more about.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
I was partially kidding. ;P
Exentryk
Member
See my previous post that I'm quoting again below.
Your argument is based on your imagination of what is possible. And you are scoffing at people thinking it is just "hold attack", when the presented demonstration showed it to be exactly like that. It clearly shows you have not understood what's going on in the demo (evident by your Attack - Dodge - Attack - Dodge comment), and now are just imagining scenarios to present your argument better. (Note that Dodge is a dedicated button.)
Wouldn't mind finding out these:
+ Confirm button presses rather than holding for attack
+ Confirm controllable airships
+ Double Jump
The rest I've given up on, or just don't care for.
Sparrowhawk
Member
Sooo do cars replace chocobos? If so, I'll be kinda upset. What about airships? Or space whales?
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
This is completely dependent on how the game is designed.
If more playable characters give you a better connection with them, a single character can potentially give you a deeper connection with him.
If multi-character combat systems spread their depth though all characters, single-character combat systems can focus all their depth into a single avatar.
So a single character is not merely a party-driven experience stripped out of party content. It usually compensates with additional or more complex mechanics. KH gives you more involved (action combat) control to compensate for less playable characters in combat, but it still offers enough customisation for the entire party out of combat. But if we look at games like Vagrant Story, the non-existence of partners is compensated with a really complex set of stats and mechanics to manage.
Besides, we still don't know how effective it is the experience of interacting with your party in third-person. For all intended purposes, it might even end up enhancing the feel of grounded realism and brotherhood.
There will be Chocobo in the game. They are not sure if they will be able to put it in the Demo at this point though.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
I'm not sure if serious or not, but most of those are already confirmed or heavily implied that they might not exist.
I think it's now just people desperately trying to hope that FFXV will still play like the promised FFvXIII, when we know it won't.Dark_castle
Junior Member
Tabata briefly mentioned 'other vehicles', but never went into detail on what are those. I have a bad feeling that those are just boats and Magitek Armors, but not airship. Would be really disappointing if that's the case. That was one of the main selling point to me.
Like, one can say a lot negative about FFXV, but if it offers a large, seamless open world to explore AND a fully controllable airship at the end of day, that is at least something to actually look forward to.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
I'm not sure if serious or not, but most of those are already confirmed or heavily implied that they might not exist.
Tabata hasn't deny if airship is still in yet. The story/characters/setting doesn't seem to be heavily altered too (road brotrip adventure was there since Versus XIII), but we still need to see more.
Exentryk
Member
Yup, pretty much. Even being able to drive around the whole world is cool enough, but an airship would just be grand. This is Versus XIII's vision, so it should be in there. Come on Tabata.
I don't get this, when did we got indications of the game losing it's original "darker" theme? We never did, amiright?
Exentryk
Member
Yeah, apart from the gameplay, everything else is the same. I think Tabata said the story and chars are a lock.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
In fact, we did not. Just putting it there because apparently, there are some who think it's gone now because certain thing's changed, like the battle system, director shift and that the new trailers decided to show things happening in day time.
I don't really care about switching party members. I suppose it would be neat, but Noctis has the most options available, I don't know why I'd want to switch to someone else quite frankly.
I think simply having them work along aside Noctis as shown in the trailers is good enough for me, gives them some purpose to be there in combat.
I think simply having them work along aside Noctis as shown in the trailers is good enough for me, gives them some purpose to be there in combat.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
He didn't, but he used the car as an example of what airships were in previous FF games, so I wouldn't be surprised if the car experience replaces the flying experience.
Speedhoven
Neo Member
Hasn't controllable airships been confired for like 4-6 years now?
Regardless of whether i even agree with all those points (i don't), a lot of those are clearly too big of a change to implement now.
You'd simply look like a fool, seriously asking them to implement them at this stage of development.
Maybe for a FFXV-2...
Yeah, he even went as far as confirming he followed Nomura's lead and ideas to stick to the original vision. The fact that there are some lighter moments doesn't immediately negates a whole "darker" plot, if anything, it can ever enhance it.
So yeah, i'm sure the whole Shakespearian's plot and atmosphere is still there, as well as dramatic love story and 1st/3rd world struggles. I'm actually interested in seeing how can a "simple" story like recovering a crystal being mixed with a "darker" tone.
And yeah, i too hope playable airships (as enemies already have one) are still there, even if i can't see them working with the whole "cutscene in the car everytime you enter an area".
Exentryk
Member
Yes. Just like party leader switching was.
Wenger'sBakedBaguettes
Member
I wonder how Chocobo travelling will be affected when you have a car to travel by. Feels like you won't use a Chocobo much except for certain quests or mini-games, or perhaps certain areas only accessible by Chocobos.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Yes, but nevertheless, he didn't outright say controllable airship is gone.
Looks like we're actually getting a lot of tools to traverse the maps:
-Airship(?)= quick travel in the whole world map
-Car= fast travelling in a map
-Chocobo= faster than walking, access to more zones than car and foot, maybe shortcuts?
-Foot/jumping= for slower and more throughly exploration, i'd love some "jumping puzzle" a la KH/GW2
-Warp= access to secret spots
It's really exciting, like the old FF days, but in the end it'll depend on the quality of the level-design.
Who's in charge of that?
-Airship(?)= quick travel in the whole world map
-Car= fast travelling in a map
-Chocobo= faster than walking, access to more zones than car and foot, maybe shortcuts?
-Foot/jumping= for slower and more throughly exploration, i'd love some "jumping puzzle" a la KH/GW2
-Warp= access to secret spots
It's really exciting, like the old FF days, but in the end it'll depend on the quality of the level-design.
Who's in charge of that?
Have you played GTAV? Cars can easily climb up and down mountains.
Maybe they will give us a gold chocobo to fly around on.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Don't know if it's referring to level design, but world planning director was/is Takeshi Endo, previously worked on FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, KH1, KH2.
Given how detailed the map looks, i really doubt airships will be in as anything more than fast travel system.
I doubt they've built a world bigger than say Witcher3 fully explorable and open, with that level of detail... all without bragging extensively about it?
Moreover, roadtripping being a central theme of the game, giving you a top view of the world, would really cheapen and undermine its scale, see GTAV for an example og this: As soon as you step foot in an helicopter, the huge world reveals itself as the pitifully small diorama it really is.
I doubt they've built a world bigger than say Witcher3 fully explorable and open, with that level of detail... all without bragging extensively about it?
Moreover, roadtripping being a central theme of the game, giving you a top view of the world, would really cheapen and undermine its scale, see GTAV for an example og this: As soon as you step foot in an helicopter, the huge world reveals itself as the pitifully small diorama it really is.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Nightengale
Member
Honestly, the game has changed so much, even within the context of Versus that I don't know if latching onto what Nomura once said in his interviews even matter.
I mean, we know at one point they experimented with classic world map. In that design, airship being controllable makes sense, since you're looking at the overworld from a Google Maps perspective, and it's basically extending the same explore space that Noctis had, but to an airship.
But in a 1:1 scale overworld, that becomes harder to achieve if the airship is travelling within the same space as the 1:1 overworld.
Good, those FFs all had very charming layouts for their cities/maps, and KHI&II had plenty of points where to jump and find secrets.
I hope this means XV will have interesting maps.
They could very well change the scale of the world when travelling in airship, not 1:1 like DQVIII, and you simply fly over the zones which could have some fixed landmarks whre the airships drops you.
And, as most FF, if it's still there you'll probably obtain in later in the game, so this leaves enough time to travel with the car and exploring the maps first hand, i say thats enough bragging
Exentryk
Member
Yeah, that's why I'm kinda worried that they'll just say it's too hard and not put it in. It appears they are finally getting around to putting all the prototype things from Versus in to action now that they've gotten the Luminous Engine integrated with Ebony.
Also, worth mentioning that Ni No Kuni managed to put in a car and a fully controllable "airship" on the PS3. So, SE please. Make it happen.
killatopak
Member
That's Level 5 though who also happens to make DQVIII which has flying. That's something SE(internal) wasn't able to make for 2 subsequent generations of FF games.
Good, those FFs all had very charming layouts for their cities/maps, and KHI&II had plenty of points where to jump and find secrets.
I hope this means XV will have interesting maps.
They could very well change the scale of the world when travelling in airship, not 1:1 like DQVIII, and you simply fly over the zones which could have some fixed landmarks whre the airships drops you.
And, as most FF, if it's still there you'll probably obtain in later in the game, so this leaves enough time to travel with the car and exploring the maps first hand, i say thats enough bragging
well, they obviously want to put some kind of flying devices in the game, in the trailer we see some kind of enemy airships in the field and the e3 trailer had that stuff with noctis teleporting from an airship to another, if that stuff will be implemented in the game, we'll just have to wait and see
personally, if they manage to put it in would be fantastic, especially in this 1:1 world instead, flying around and seeing enemies flying around or even an ultima weapon(hope they're in), like in FFVII would be fantastic
I'm certainly not a fan of the direction they're taking. Obviously you can't sell the same game over and over or it eventually gets stale, but it seems they haven't learned from what people hated about 13 and add even more controversial changes on top of that.
The worst thing is it's going to sell a lot, and just like Tomb Raider it still won't be enough. My greatest fear is that they'll then take a line of thinking that people don't want/like FF anymore. That is, of course, patently untrue but you can tell that they don't give a shit about the opinions of players really. The 13 series was more tolerated in Japan than elsewhere, but a lot of people there did find it pretty terrible. This all coming from a company who was surprised Bravely Default got so much love, aside from the annoying end part.
TL;DR I'm afraid they'll think FF is no longer popular because of their shit opinions and they need to listen to their audience more and not the echo chamber that they seem to work in these days.
Oh, and of course we should judge the game only as a finished product and it might be brilliant. Just color me wary. I'm a fan of FF so that's probably why I get a little too invested and worked up about changes I perceive as bad.
The worst thing is it's going to sell a lot, and just like Tomb Raider it still won't be enough. My greatest fear is that they'll then take a line of thinking that people don't want/like FF anymore. That is, of course, patently untrue but you can tell that they don't give a shit about the opinions of players really. The 13 series was more tolerated in Japan than elsewhere, but a lot of people there did find it pretty terrible. This all coming from a company who was surprised Bravely Default got so much love, aside from the annoying end part.
TL;DR I'm afraid they'll think FF is no longer popular because of their shit opinions and they need to listen to their audience more and not the echo chamber that they seem to work in these days.
Oh, and of course we should judge the game only as a finished product and it might be brilliant. Just color me wary. I'm a fan of FF so that's probably why I get a little too invested and worked up about changes I perceive as bad.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
The thing is, Nomura had re-confirmed controllable airship after 2011 trailer, and at that time, the world map has been changed from top down classic view to third person, scaled overworld.
Of course this was long time ago and could have been scrapped, but I really, really hope not.
Type-0 has controllable airships.
killatopak
Member
To be specific, Type-0 is a spin off game. Why would a spin off game have more features than a mainline game? Hopefully, they fix this on XV. I've been hoping for a good overworld where you can find secret stuff and just discover things in general.
I want puff-puffs.