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[coldfoot]

Q3 $53 million profit despite falling PS3 sales and failing Vita sales, and R&D for PS4.

You know those profit figures are laughable, right? Samsung makes Billions in profits. This tells me that PS3 is not much of a profit maker, if the game division can only muster 20-50 million $ profits despite selling 40-60 million pieces of PS3 software which are pure profit due to licensing fees. Multiply that by 8-10$ licensing fee, that's more than 500 million $ of PROFIT by itself. Subtract PS4 R&D which is much MUCH less than PS3 due to using off the shelf chips...and all I see is a PS3 that's sold basically at cost.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Same. There's no way of getting around inadequate internet speed and high ping.

Sure there is, private network. It is when you go over the internet that things will start to fall apart.

 

[sTeLioSco]

You know those profit figures are laughable, right? Samsung makes Billions in profits. This tells me that PS3 is not much of a profit maker, if the game division can only muster 20-50 million $ profits despite selling 40-60 million pieces of PS3 software which are pure profit due to licensing fees. Multiply that by 8-10$ licensing fee, that's more than 500 million $ of PROFIT by itself. Subtract PS4 R&D which is much MUCH less than PS3 due to using off the shelf chips...and all I see is a PS3 that's sold basically at cost.

what does samsung had to do with the playstation division being profitable?!?

 

[Truespeed]

what does samsung had to do with the playstation division being profitable?!?

I'm anxiously waiting for the Samsung/Xbox profit comparison.

 

[Superflat]

My beautiful 60gb playstation 3 has recently died. It was the most superior of all ps3s. Not only did it have the extra usb ports and memory card readers. But it also had the power to play all three playstation generations natively. At the moment i am forced to fix it and maintain just to have access to my current playstation library.

Imagine being told in 2006 that the ps4 wouldnt be able to play not just the ps3 games but all playstation games dating back to 1996. People would call you mad. But that's what happened to the ps4. A truly first for sony. A company who already cut off a majority of its' fanbase last gen by introducing non BC consoles has now take one step further by making all ps games redundant on the ps4 natively. It just doesnt matter what type of game you insert. If it aint a ps4 game then it wouldnt work.When the playstation 4 hits it will be the first sony console not to play even playstation 1 games natively. By that i mean insert a ps1 and it simply wouldnt play.

But that's even the most weirdest aspect. Sony a pioneer and creator of the CD format has made audio cd redundant on their console. Unbelievable when you think about it.

This is how sony goes about their buisness these days. Spitting on their own consumers and fanbase. But the damage is just not from a consumer point of view. It's also an engineering and design loss. Sony has nothing of their own in the ps4 apart from blu ray. Which by the way was developed way back. Ken must crying inside when he sees sony these days. where once sony went alone in desiging and manufacturing their own chips it's now reduced to completely outsourcing their flagship console.



Sony is no longer run by visionaries at tokyo. Its sad but its the truth.

Jesus, someone make a ytmnd of this guy.

 

[H_Prestige]

You know those profit figures are laughable, right? Samsung makes Billions in profits. This tells me that PS3 is not much of a profit maker, if the game division can only muster 20-50 million $ profits despite selling 40-60 million pieces of PS3 software which are pure profit due to licensing fees. Multiply that by 8-10$ licensing fee, that's more than 500 million $ of PROFIT by itself. Subtract PS4 R&D which is much MUCH less than PS3 due to using off the shelf chips...and all I see is a PS3 that's sold basically at cost.

You do realize you're comparing an entire corporation's profits to that of a single division right?

Not saying Samsung isn't doing a whole lot better than Sony right now, but I'm not sure where you're going with that comparison.

 

[coldfoot]

what does samsung had to do with the playstation division being profitable?!?

Their mobile division makes billions in profits because they sell phones at high markup.
Sony sells a lot of PS3's and a lot of games that are pure profit yet only make 20-50 million.
MS makes 400-500 millon from the Xbox division, no doubt helped by XBL gold fees, but even they by themselves cannot account for all that in a quarter.
It's obvious that PS3 isn't sold at massive profits, which means it's still expensive to make, which means including PS3 BC in PS4 via PS3 components is a mistake.

 

[i-Lo]

Their mobile division makes billions in profits because they sell phones at high markup.
Sony sells a lot of PS3's and a lot of games that are pure profit yet only make 20-50 million.
MS makes 400-500 millon from the Xbox division, no doubt helped by XBL gold fees, but even they by themselves cannot account for all that in a quarter.
It's obvious that PS3 isn't sold at massive profits, which means it's still expensive to make, which means including PS3 BC in PS4 via PS3 components is a mistake.

Okay, so where does this lead at the end of the day? What are its implied ramifications?

 

[Truespeed]

Okay, so where does this lead at the end of the day? What are its implied ramifications?

Sony need to make a Playstation phone so they can make Billions like Samsung.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Okay, so where does this lead at the end of the day? What are its implied ramifications?

Did someone just say RAMifications?

 

[TheKaeptain]

Jesus, someone make a ytmnd of this guy.

Holy shit. Why have I never seen this? I'm laughing my ass off.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

My beautiful 60gb playstation 3 has recently died. It was the most superior of all ps3s. Not only did it have the extra usb ports and memory card readers. But it also had the power to play all three playstation generations natively. At the moment i am forced to fix it and maintain just to have access to my current playstation library.

Imagine being told in 2006 that the ps4 wouldnt be able to play not just the ps3 games but all playstation games dating back to 1996. People would call you mad. But that's what happened to the ps4. A truly first for sony. A company who already cut off a majority of its' fanbase last gen by introducing non BC consoles has now take one step further by making all ps games redundant on the ps4 natively. It just doesnt matter what type of game you insert. If it aint a ps4 game then it wouldnt work.When the playstation 4 hits it will be the first sony console not to play even playstation 1 games natively. By that i mean insert a ps1 and it simply wouldnt play.

But that's even the most weirdest aspect. Sony a pioneer and creator of the CD format has made audio cd redundant on their console. Unbelievable when you think about it.

This is how sony goes about their buisness these days. Spitting on their own consumers and fanbase. But the damage is just not from a consumer point of view. It's also an engineering and design loss. Sony has nothing of their own in the ps4 apart from blu ray. Which by the way was developed way back. Ken must crying inside when he sees sony these days. where once sony went alone in desiging and manufacturing their own chips it's now reduced to completely outsourcing their flagship console.



Sony is no longer run by visionaries at tokyo. Its sad but its the truth.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

double post

 

[coldfoot]

Sony need to make a Playstation phone so they can make Billions like Samsung.

If they could fit the Vita's controls into a phone, it'd do great but that's no easy task without making a brick of a phone.
The key point is that Sony made a very clever decision of not including PS3 BC in the PS4.

 

[Risette]

I think the sad part is that Sony makes less on hardware than big publishers do on software. Shit, they're hardly making more profit than modern Sega. Lol.

What's the point of selling console hardware?

 

[Dead Prince]

I think the sad part is that Sony makes less on hardware than big publishers do on software. Shit, they're hardly making more profit than modern Sega. Lol.

What's the point of selling console hardware?

To sell you on other things. I think that's what amazon does.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Next year California will have regulated power levels for modes on NEW or refreshed game consoles. That may kill the PS3 unless it does something that Microsoft is doing.

Xbox 360 @ $99 and supports Win RT.

It's a point I have brought up many times (using more modern hardware to reduce the power used) but I assumed PPC or 2 MPA version of a 1PPU3SPU CPU package used with a AMD Temesh rather than ARM.

If Sony's going to stick to their usual ten-year plan, they only have to keep cranking out PS3s for three more years after the PS4 launch. Sony's engineers have been busy with the PS4, but if they decide the effort required to shrink the PS3 further isn't worth it we might end up with a situation where the PS4 drops in price faster than the PS3.

Follow up, if you looked, Google confirms a logical progression; ARM could rival @ 5watts what it took 90 watts to do with the PS3 in 2012 (PS3 4000 design) AND AMD Temesh @ 15 watts in 2013:

ARM chips to rival PS3, Xbox 360 in 18 months? July 2011

ARM has been beating the performance drum again, this time telling the Inquirer that a new Mali GPU design due out in 18 months will make its chips the equal of current-gen gaming consoles like the Xbox 360 and the Playstation 3.

So yes, given a process shrink to 28nm or thereabouts, it seems quite possible that ARM will at the very least be able to pack as much hardware as the Xbox 360 does into an application processor.

We are now seeing 28nm in the PS4 and Xbox 720 and nearly 10X the GPU performance of the PS3 with less power used than the first versions of the PS3 and speculation that the power used will be less than 30% greater than the latest revision of the PS3. So PS4 like hardware at PS3 performance should be in the 20 watt range, ARM designs should be more efficient (Apx 5 watts). Temesh at 15 watts has demo games that look similar/better than PS3 games.

ARM-BASED XBOX ‘LITE’ COMING IN 2013, XBOX 360 SUCCESSOR LATER, INSIDER CLAIMS March 2012

“My understanding is that we’ll see a Xbox device in late 2013 which does Arcade-style games & all the current & future media apps with Kinect (with near-mode),” MS Nerd wrote on Reddit while fielding user-submitted questions. “It will be an ARM-based platform price-competitive with the Apple TV (if you own a Kinect already).”

This was recently seconded by another reporter, XBOX 360 that runs Win RT (ARM) and is supposed to be Xbox 360 compatible. March 2013

Arm Mali 600 series GPUs are what the first cite above is about "Xbox 360" performance and can even support 4K OS UIs.

The Xbox 720 is supposed to have wake on Voice, Wake on Gesture and wake on LAN to low power serve handhelds in the background. That plus the Low power modes and XTV which is always on when the TV is on require something like ARM for low power modes including the NUI accelerator chip. It also seems likely that there will be ARM CPU and GPU for accelerated browser support in addition to the AMD X86 Jaguar CPUs and Custom AMD GPU.

So ARM IP in the 720 might also be in a Xbox LITE => Xbox 360 performance with ARM and low power XTV support. I'll wait and see if they manage to get Xbox 360 compatibility using ARM.

 

[Negotiator]

I'd love see mobile devices rivalling PS3 & XBOX360 from a memory bandwidth perspective, but I'm afraid that LPDDR3 ain't gonna cut it.

LPDDR3 = 12.8GB/s
GDDR3 = 22.4GB/s
XDR = 25.6GB/s

Also, neither ARM nor x86 will be able to emulate PPC CPUs.

I'm wondering if the following could be possible, though:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=51881739&postcount=444

 

[Saberus]

This thread is going way off topic guys.

 

[web01]

My beautiful 60gb playstation 3 has recently died. It was the most superior of all ps3s. Not only did it have the extra usb ports and memory card readers. But it also had the power to play all three playstation generations natively. At the moment i am forced to fix it and maintain just to have access to my current playstation library.

Imagine being told in 2006 that the ps4 wouldnt be able to play not just the ps3 games but all playstation games dating back to 1996. People would call you mad. But that's what happened to the ps4. A truly first for sony. A company who already cut off a majority of its' fanbase last gen by introducing non BC consoles has now take one step further by making all ps games redundant on the ps4 natively. It just doesnt matter what type of game you insert. If it aint a ps4 game then it wouldnt work.When the playstation 4 hits it will be the first sony console not to play even playstation 1 games natively. By that i mean insert a ps1 and it simply wouldnt play.

But that's even the most weirdest aspect. Sony a pioneer and creator of the CD format has made audio cd redundant on their console. Unbelievable when you think about it.

This is how sony goes about their buisness these days. Spitting on their own consumers and fanbase. But the damage is just not from a consumer point of view. It's also an engineering and design loss. Sony has nothing of their own in the ps4 apart from blu ray. Which by the way was developed way back. Ken must crying inside when he sees sony these days. where once sony went alone in desiging and manufacturing their own chips it's now reduced to completely outsourcing their flagship console.



Sony is no longer run by visionaries at tokyo. Its sad but its the truth.

Whether you are taking the piss or not you have some good points, but Sony is not in a position to take major risks at the moment. Its make money or die.

 

[jeff_rigby]

FCC to Force all Cable TV Providers to Stream HD With "Open" Standard by 2014

Was supposed to go into effect Dec 2012 but was delayed by TiVo.

The U.S. Federal Communications Commission -- upset that cable television providers (CTPs) did not allow streaming of HD video via secured connections like the Digital Living Network Alliance (DLNA) standard -- in 2010 decided to force the issue proposing an order to force CTPs to stream.

The new set of rules, set to be made mandatory by June 2, 2014, also clarifies what capabilities are expected of the HD streams:

recordable high-definition video
closed captioning data
service discovery
video transport
remote control command pass-through

DLNA Premium Video Profile, an HD-compliant version of the secure-streaming standard set to be ratified in 2013, was suggested as one possible option for cable companies.

Looks like the RVU additions to DLNA recently adopted are the standard. Xtended TV is coming to OTA with ATSC 2.0 in the US this year and those standards should make their way into cable.

So DVR ability with an always on Xbox 720 or PS4 is a given right?

The previous post had A EU paper on standby power mode and exceptions. it applies to the PS4 and Xbox 720. The always on mode for the Xbox and PS4 is not required to be 500mw, read the exceptions and use cases. One has a game console able to turn on a Blu-ray player and control as well as play the blu-ray in the player; RVU should allow such a use case.

 

[jeff_rigby]

ARM Trustzone in Game consoles

ARM is famous for its low-power chip designs, Gemalto is known for its NFC security features, and Giesecke & Devrient brings some nice nano-SIM notoriety to the table. As a trio, these companies want to push forward a security standard that could be readily used in a wide range of web-connected devices, including tablets, smart TVs, game consoles and smartphones. The standard itself is built on ARM's TrustZone hardware-based security, which has been around for a while and is built into every ARM Cortex-A series processor,

A Trusted Execution Environment (TEE) is a secure area that resides in the application processor of an electronic device. Separated by hardware from the main operating system, a TEE ensures the secure storage and processing of sensitive data and trusted applications. It protects the integrity and confidentiality of key resources, such as the user interface and service provider assets. A TEE manages and executes trusted applications built in by device makers as well as trusted applications installed as people demand them. Trusted applications running in a TEE have access to the full power of a device's main processor and memory, while hardware isolation protects these from user installed apps running in a main operating system. Software and cryptographic isolation inside the TEE protect the trusted applications contained within from each other. Device and chip makers use TEEs to build platforms that have trust built in from the start, while service and content providers rely on integral trust to start launching innovative services and new business opportunities.

“Trustonic will accelerate the adoption and widespread use of ARM TrustZone technology in a diverse set of trusted enterprise, commerce and entertainment services by delivering a Trusted Execution Environment to the broad ARM ecosystem," said Warren East, chief executive officer of ARM.

Numerous companies, including 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, Cisco, Discretix, Good Technology, Inside Secure, Irdeto, MasterCard, Nvidia, Samsung Electronics, Sprint, Symantec, and Wave Systems, plan to work with Trustonic and adopt the TEE.