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[yurinka]

I think it's true, a March or November 2024 release makes sense and sounds realistic.

I'd make a full BC hybrid Switch 2 with a 1080p display that would run Switch 1 games at 1080p 60fps in portable mode and 4K 60fps docked.

Featuring raytracing, wifi6 and DLSS3 plus a beefy CPU+GPU somewhat inferior hardware than Steamdev but that with the help of DLSS would be able to look better. Price would be $349.

Magnetic based drifting free joycons with Pro controller like bigger buttons for adult manly hands, and with a proper d-pad by default, or at least two SKUs: one with a normal, proper d-pad and other with a Switch-like dpad.

 

[ADiTAR]

Steam Deck has a vastly superior game library compared to the Switch.

It doesn't have Nintendo games.

 

[March Climber]

Tams I want to clear the air here. You don't have to respond to me if you don't want to, but I at least want to explain my side.

I'm out because you clearly think your opinion is more valid.

I've never stated this nor have I tried to communicate this. I like having conversations on this board. Go to any Off-Topic OT discussion and you'll usually see me typing paragraphs of opinion on flavor of the month TV shows, especially Marvel stuff. People are free to call me out on them and tell me I'm wrong and if I am I will concede without question. Sometimes, I'll ask questions in return to engage further in conversation. Me asking questions doesn't mean I can't accept someone's answer, I'm just trying to find out more context and information about their answer. Again, I'm just trying to have a discussion here.

For whatever reason you can't accept that I have no problems with a year or two more of the Switch.

As said above, I DID accept your opinion and wanted to know more context for further discussion.

I try to understand how other people think, but I can't wrap my head around why you can't just accept my gaming preferences.

I've never stated this. You're shadowboxing someone who isn't even trying to fight you. I understand many people here tend to be aggressive and wave around their fandom flags, but I'm literally telling you that your read on me is way off if you think that of me.

I didn't question yours.

Feel free if you want to and are curious. If not, then it's okay.

 

[Mr Branding]

Steam Deck has a vastly superior game library compared to the Switch.

While I can’t say it doesn’t, SD also needs quite a bit more extra stuff so I can play co-op (dock, controllers) with my family.

It’s also a matter of taste, as not all games translate well to portable play, and to be really honest, I still prefer the switch when traveling because of the better battery life and plug and play nature.

I can appreciate it for what it is and it does have a massive library of games but let’s not pretend (as with eshop’s case) it’s not full of shovelware.

 

[CrustyBritches]

While I can’t say it doesn’t, SD also needs quite a bit more extra stuff so I can play co-op (dock, controllers) with my family.

It’s also a matter of taste, as not all games translate well to portable play, and to be really honest, I still prefer the switch when traveling because of the better battery life and plug and play nature.

I can appreciate it for what it is and it does have a massive library of games but let’s not pretend (as with eshop’s case) it’s not full of shovelware.

Switch is a great little system will end up one of the most popular consoles of all time. Admittedly I think of it more in its handheld form since my boys have Lites and I never played docked when I had a V1 many years ago. It’s more streamlined in that regard compared to the Deck.

In your comment it made it sound like Deck was just about graphics while the Switch is about games. As a Deck fanboy I just wanted to chime in about the Deck’s amazing game library. All of Sony’s games have been Deck verified, I’m dual-booting so I have native GP+EA Play, there’s niche cult hits like Elden Ring. Deck has something like 6000 verified or playable games not including Windows or emulation.

 

[01011001]

I'd make a full BC hybrid Switch 2 with a 1080p display that would run Switch 1 games at 1080p 60fps in portable mode and 4K 60fps docked.

if they do anything like this it will at most be that it will run Switch 1 games in docked mode at all times. so you get the improved settings and resolutions while playing in handheld mode...
maybe even offer a Switch 1 power saving mode where you can turn on portable mode to save battery life while playing Switch 1 games.

I doubt Devs will patch games as much, if they even can that is...
and automatic improvements are highly unlikely

 

[Panajev2001a]

Switch is a great little system will end up one of the most popular consoles of all time. Admittedly I think of it more in its handheld form since my boys have Lites and I never played docked when I had a V1 many years ago. It’s more streamlined in that regard compared to the Deck.

In your comment it made it sound like Deck was just about graphics while the Switch is about games. As a Deck fanboy I just wanted to chime in about the Deck’s amazing game library. All of Sony’s games have been Deck verified, I’m dual-booting so I have native GP+EA Play, there’s niche cult hits like Elden Ring. Deck has something like 6000 verified or playable games not including Windows or emulation.

There are some games where the fact they were optimised for the Switch brings better UI and default controls compared to the default on the Deck. Also for some games the screen quality, if you are lucky enough to own an OLED Switch, means that the game is much more impactful on Switch (think about a Diablo 2 remaster for example). Also you have the Nintendo first party games, that goes without saying, but their quality is overall so good that you have to say it.

With that said… Steam Deck (which is ergonomically better than the Switch IMHO: fits well into the hands without giving cramps, has symmetric top aligned analog sticks, tons of inputs including back buttons and touch pads), even without dual booting into Windows (which for now it is the only way to get your HW accelerated RT in games, yeah I know it comes with sacrifices hehe), has an incredible amount of games supported with either no user customisation required or many that need minor changes SteamDeck allows you to do using super user friendly UI (they made the PC modding/customisation in the software side experience so much more user friendly it is. It even funny ). It is the best game launcher by miles.
If you want to play modern games that can run on PS4 HW you can have a quite great time on Steam Deck even putting them on a decently priced SD card instead of the main SSD (you will not find many issues with loading and streaming considering the games were built for HDD’s with similar or lower throughput and much worse seek times/latency)… so you have a lot of stuff to choose from between modern console and PC games, indies, and PC classics (that still get modded and improved).

With a very very simple step through desktop mode you can install Luxtorpeda and easily customise the launcher used for the game (welcome ScummVM for many games, welcome easy OpenMW installation for Morrowind, etc…). Want more? No problem, you can push a bit more and setup mods for games using desktop mode as a PC (hello NorthernUI mode with gamepad support for Oblivion).

Between official custom SteamDeck gamepad to game controls mappings offered by the game developer, Valve’s own default templates, and community provided (and rated) controller mappings (you can download, customise, and republish too !!!!), the sky is the limit (per game profiles).
Then you have easy to use performance profile tools (super trivial to get an FOS counter on screen) and the ability to setup per game performance / battery profiles super easily too: the ability to set the screen refresh rate to something between 40 and 60 FPS and limit framerate fixes stuttering and tearing: many games are perfect at 50 FPS, they are not noticeably worse than 60 FPS and can spend a considerable frame time savings in better visual fidelity (or even 40 FPS)… it is not dynamic variable refresh rate but it is not a display that has a fixed refresh rate, you get control and it is easy to make it a better experience for yourself. It would be nice to see console games licking to 50 Hz on modern TV’s instead of 60 Hz…

Did I say that symmetric analog sticks are still the best and having them on the top of the unit (instead of both at the bottom) is a great compromise between the two sides of the battle ? Ah repeating myself hehe, just so glad they went with this setup.

If you wanted a PC in your hands (you can still connect to the TV) without a lot of the pain taking advantage of the customisation and freedom of the platform normally brings you… this is your baby . Ok ok… you could also get an AyaNeo2, but I think you would miss some of the control options this puppy has (but yes you get a faster unit and a better screen… although I will always defend the 1280x800 resolution and aspect ratio, great compromise for modern and classic games… big display and not crazy high resolution is also good for my eyes and avoids scaling issues for older games).

 

[Marvel14]

Steam Deck has a vastly superior game library compared to the Switch.

And it''s vastly inferior in ease of use, portability and battery life...its horses for courses and its great that we the consumers have choices that cater to different preferences.

 

[CrustyBritches]

its great that we the consumers have choices that cater to different preferences.

Agreed.

 

[Panajev2001a]

And it''s vastly inferior in ease of use, portability and battery life...its horses for courses and its great that we the consumers have choices that cater to different preferences.

Battery life eh… it depends, but ease of use I think it is a wash. Ergonomically Steam Deck looks a bit worrisome only until you actually use it. This is a case like with a lot of things where the eyes push you towards a more compact, slim, and lighter design but the better design for you once you start using both ends up being the other one.

 

[Tams]

Battery life eh… it depends, but ease of use I think it is a wash. Ergonomically Steam Deck looks a bit worrisome only until you actually use it. This is a case like with a lot of things where the eyes push you towards a more compact, slim, and lighter design but the better design for you once you start using both ends up being the other one.

Nah, the Switch is noticeably easier to use. It 'just werks'. The Steam Deck generally does, but not always. It's a not a major issue, but if you sit down and just want game, some issue popping up can be quite a big put off.

And the Switch definitely excels at portability. Put it in a bag and you'll not know it's there (it's no DS/3DS, but still). The Steam Deck you will, and will need to pack around it.

 

[cash_longfellow]

they will never go back to another concept.

Is this info from your Uncle who works at Nintendo?

 

[Gambit2483]

I believe The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess HD and Legend of Zelda Windwaker were delayed to be launch titles for the next Nintendo gen system. They know it will be enough incentive for a launch line up and guarenteed sales.

This is true. They delayed both Twilight Princess and BOTW so that they could launch with the new hardware (i.e. Wii and Switch respectively)....and for all intents and purposes it worked both times...brilliantly with Switch in fact.

But yeah...let's just not do that again...

 

[MarkMe2525]

This is just as likely an OLED lite model. I believe they are still moving too many units to cut ties with the current switch.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

New hardware rumors really get me going.

Day 1. We're all going to be blown away by that new Mario Kart trailer.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Switch was a beast but by the time year 2 it was graphically down ps4 pro showed more power, how can a console so good still be operating today? Would have for sure bought a turbo charged switch pro.

 

[Tams]

This is true. They delayed both Twilight Princess and BOTW so that they could launch with the new hardware (i.e. Wii and Switch respectively)....and for all intents and purposes it worked both times...brilliantly with Switch in fact.

But yeah...let's just not do that again...

Both coming from relative failures though. As great as both the Gamecube and Wii U were, releasing a flagship game that comes around only every five or more years, on just them would have been an utter waste of the potential of that game.

 

[Urban]

Is this info from your Uncle who works at Nintendo?

No the success of the Hybrid hardware tells it.

 

[cash_longfellow]

No the success of the Hybrid hardware tells it.

You know what else was successful? Like every Nintendo hardware aside from the Wii U

 

[01011001]

You know what else was successful? Like every Nintendo hardware aside from the Wii U

the GameCube and N64 might want to have a word with you about that

 

[Kenpachii]

new hardware makes sense, switch is simple just to slow for 3rd party games at this point, a performance boost would make sense.

 

[cash_longfellow]

the GameCube and N64 might want to have a word with you about that

Goddamnit, you are right. I legit forgot about the GameCube, and for some reason thought N64 was at least semi successful, I was wrong even though some of the games were super influential, lol. I stand corrected binary code name person that I don’t want to look up what it means .
Side note…I do think it will be a hybrid console, but don’t think it will be a full switch 2. While the handheld portion is obvious cash flow for Nintendo, I think they will step up the home console portion greatly. I don’t think it will be a dock type deal that legit is focused on handheld. It will be a solid home console this time around…but I do agree there will be a handheld side too.

 

[01011001]

Goddamnit, you are right. I legit forgot about the GameCube, and for some reason thought N64 was at least semi successful, I was wrong even though some of the games were super influential, lol. I stand corrected binary code name person that I don’t want to look up what it means .
Side note…I do think it will be a hybrid console, but don’t think it will be a full switch 2. While the handheld portion is obvious cash flow for Nintendo, I think they will step up the home console portion greatly. I don’t think it will be a dock type deal that legit is focused on handheld. It will be a solid home console this time around…but I do agree there will be a handheld side too.

I absolutely think it will be a hybrid. Nintendo is most likely scared shitless about the upcoming generation, and they have been burned hard by the Wii U. they will most likely make as safe of a successor as possible.

and 01011001 is simply the ASCII binary code for an upper case Y

 

[cash_longfellow]

I absolutely think it will be a hybrid. Nintendo is most likely scared shitless about the upcoming generation, and they have been burned hard by the Wii U. they will most likely make as safe of a successor as possible.

and 01011001 is simply the ASCII binary code for an upper case Y

Fair enough…also, thanks for the explanation, I always wondered every time I see your posts on here lol

 

[yurinka]

if they do anything like this it will at most be that it will run Switch 1 games in docked mode at all times. so you get the improved settings and resolutions while playing in handheld mode...
maybe even offer a Switch 1 power saving mode where you can turn on portable mode to save battery life while playing Switch 1 games.

I doubt Devs will patch games as much, if they even can that is...
and automatic improvements are highly unlikely

No need to patch the games, if smart they'd do some kind of OS wide DLSS solution on top of full BC. Or to do like the PC emulator (but this option may generate bugs in some games, so patches would be required in some cases) to run them at higher reolution.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

It doesn't have Nintendo games.

7 hours and nobody‘s made a snarky reply about emulation? Slow weekend.

 

[digdug2]

7 hours and nobody‘s made a snarky reply about emulation? Slow weekend.

Well, on PC and Steamdeck you can, uh, always, you know, use Yuzu for your precious ass Switch games. Snarky enough?

 

[TLZ]

I just had a thought.

What if this news was related to the Bloomberg "Nintendo wanting to increase sales forecast to 20mil" article? (paraphrased). What if this increase includes the new Switch? I'm thinking this because an increase in forecast at this stage in a console's life isn't normal. This never happened before. And we see the downward trajectory in sales.

Just a thought.

Also this Takashi guy was wrong before. So he might very well be wrong now and mixed up his info.

 

[Zannegan]

I just had a thought.

What if this news was related to the Bloomberg "Nintendo wanting to increase sales forecast to 20mil" article? (paraphrased). What if this increase includes the new Switch? I'm thinking this because an increase in forecast at this stage in a console's life isn't normal. This never happened before. And we see the downward trajectory in sales.

Just a thought.

Also this Takashi guy was wrong before. So he might very well be wrong now and mixed up his info.

I wish, but if they were anywhere near ready to start pumping them out, I feel like we'd have rumors--both true and false--flying all over the place.

People were arguing about the hybrid rumors for months leading up to the "Nintendo NX" reveal, with some swearing it was true and others betting their credibility that both their sources and science had ruled it out. I remember trying to figure out how you could make detachable controller halves that came together to make a full dual analogue controller work (not realizing they would use a plastic insert with grips... duh).

Anyway, timing-wise I'd say you still have the slimmest of chances for a late 2023 release, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

And I don't feel right taking half of his information (that they're talking to suppliers) as accurate and ignoring the other half (release window). Then again, I can't read the original Japanese, so I don't know what he's putting forward as fact and what's marked as speculation.

 

[CrustyBritches]

7 hours and nobody‘s made a snarky reply about emulation? Slow weekend.

Just you, if we're going to be technical about it.

 

[Woopah]

No need to patch the games, if smart they'd do some kind of OS wide DLSS solution on top of full BC. Or to do like the PC emulator (but this option may generate bugs in some games, so patches would be required in some cases) to run them at higher reolution.

From my (limited) understanding, you can't do an OS-wide DLSS solution. Each game has to be programmed with it in mind.

Likewise for having all Switch 1 games run at 60fps on Switch 2, that will only be possible for games where the developer hasn't locked the framerate.

I just had a thought.

What if this news was related to the Bloomberg "Nintendo wanting to increase sales forecast to 20mil" article? (paraphrased). What if this increase includes the new Switch? I'm thinking this because an increase in forecast at this stage in a console's life isn't normal. This never happened before. And we see the downward trajectory in sales.

Just a thought.

Also this Takashi guy was wrong before. So he might very well be wrong now and mixed up his info.

Its what Nintnedo is asking suppliers for, rather than what their official forecast is. There wasa simalr thing last year where the preliminary number Takashi heard from suppliers was not what Nintnedo's final forecast actually was. The same thing will happen here.

 

[TLZ]

timing-wise I'd say you still have the slimmest of chances for a late 2023 release

The forecast is for the financial year, which goes all the way to March 2024. So a possible March 2024 release?

 

[yurinka]

From my (limited) understanding, you can't do an OS-wide DLSS solution. Each game has to be programmed with it in mind.

Likewise for having all Switch 1 games run at 60fps on Switch 2, that will only be possible for games where the developer hasn't locked the framerate.

As it is the current DLSS in PC yes, it isn't OS-wide and requires per-game implementation. Meaning that it would need a patch for each game.

But they often make custom hardware or chips or implementations specific for certain consoles. I remember now the checkerboard rendering that Sony did use as I remember to achieve 4K in PS4 Pro, or the specific chip they use in PS4 or PS5 to decompress stuff without needing to spend CPU or GPU resources on it, something specially usefulf for stuff like game streaming or loading faster from the SSD.

On top of that, nowadays there are many image reconstruction techniques, including some AI related that don't need game-specific implementations, and being AI related they could take advantage of the dedicated hardware Nvidia now includes in their GPU for AI, that they use DLSS. And having the knowledge and experience of DLSS, I assume Nvidia could do an upscaling OS level image reconstruction technique that could be a dedicated DLSS variant.

But that maybe it would be too modern, generous and innovative for Nintendo, so it's more likely that if Switch 2 uses DLSS would be the same PC per-game implementation for Switch 2 games only, and would keep BC -if it even exist and it's free instead of sellling you the game again- with the same Switch resolution and performance.

 

[01011001]

No need to patch the games, if smart they'd do some kind of OS wide DLSS solution on top of full BC. Or to do like the PC emulator (but this option may generate bugs in some games, so patches would be required in some cases) to run them at higher reolution.

system wide DLSS is not possible to do.

most Switch games do not use TAA, which means most Switch games don't keep track of motion vectors.

DLSS needs motion vectors to work, and even if a Switch game has TAA it still wouldn't be as easy as that to just force DLSS in it.
even games that officially supported DLSS in the past on PC sometimes have issues with motion vectors failing to update correctly, which results in very visible artifacts. this can be patched by the devs of course but wouldn't be that easy to fix in a forced system wide DLSS the developers have no direct influence on.

so this isn't that easy.
the easiest thing they could maybe do would be a framerate hack to unlock framerates, similar to FPS boost on Xbox, or a resolution hack that makes the game render at 2x or 4x on each axis, again like on Xbox's X enhanced bc games.

but even hacks like that I bet aren't as easy as on Xbox. Microsoft is in the fortunate position of running every Back Compat game virtualized and on an abstraction layer that can be manipulated by Microsoft's back compat team, these older games also run on old versions of Direct X where manipulating things on an API level like that was easier.

the last issue could be developers, Microsoft didn't want to upset developers and always asked for permission to change stuff, not sure how Devs would like system wide changes to their games that they don't have any control over

 

[digdug2]

Even without DLSS, wouldn't increasing the internal resolution on the Switch 2 (similar to what they do in emulation) help get rid of jagged edges?

 

[gundalf]

Even without DLSS, wouldn't increasing the internal resolution on the Switch 2 (similar to what they do in emulation) help get rid of jagged edges?

FullHD on 7" helps but now you have render an additional 2 million more pixels so firing up those CUDA cores for DLSS instead could consume much less power than rendering in 1080p. Also a 720p screen consumes less power than 1080p (this goes for both LED backlit and OLED).

 

[RoboFu]

What I want ( will never happen ) is a non portable version. Doesn’t even need to be more powerful I just do not want a battery to be tied to weather my console turns on or not.

When your switch battery eventually dies it will no longer work. There is no power pass through.

 

[Woopah]

As it is the current DLSS in PC yes, it isn't OS-wide and requires per-game implementation. Meaning that it would need a patch for each game.

But they often make custom hardware or chips or implementations specific for certain consoles. I remember now the checkerboard rendering that Sony did use as I remember to achieve 4K in PS4 Pro, or the specific chip they use in PS4 or PS5 to decompress stuff without needing to spend CPU or GPU resources on it, something specially usefulf for stuff like game streaming or loading faster from the SSD.

On top of that, nowadays there are many image reconstruction techniques, including some AI related that don't need game-specific implementations, and being AI related they could take advantage of the dedicated hardware Nvidia now includes in their GPU for AI, that they use DLSS. And having the knowledge and experience of DLSS, I assume Nvidia could do an upscaling OS level image reconstruction technique that could be a dedicated DLSS variant.

But that maybe it would be too modern, generous and innovative for Nintendo, so it's more likely that if Switch 2 uses DLSS would be the same PC per-game implementation for Switch 2 games only, and would keep BC -if it even exist and it's free instead of sellling you the game again- with the same Switch resolution and performance.

As 01011001 said its not about Nintned being "modern, generous and innovative", its that OS level DLSS is impossible as Switch games were not built with DLSS in mind. My own expectation is that every Switch 2 game will use DLSS, but of Switch 1 games only the big Nintrndo everygreens will be partched to use it.

 

[PonyStation4]

What I want ( will never happen ) is a non portable version. Doesn’t even need to be more powerful I just do not want a battery to be tied to weather my console turns on or not.

When your switch battery eventually dies it will no longer work. There is no power pass through.

It takes 10 min to remove the screws, SD slot, circuit shield and then replacing the battery. It's not an issue at all

 

[yurinka]

As 01011001 said its not about Nintned being "modern, generous and innovative", its that OS level DLSS is impossible as Switch games were not built with DLSS in mind. My own expectation is that every Switch 2 game will use DLSS, but of Switch 1 games only the big Nintrndo everygreens will be partched to use it.

I didn't meant to use DLSS as it is because the reasons you mentioned. I meant using Nvidia's knowledge in DLSS plus other recent upcaling tech to do something OS wide to upscale.

 

[Banjo64]

Probably not thread worthy, however the Switch Pro Controller is sold out at every major UK retailer. Are Nintendo phasing out Switch accessories ahead of a potential new console? Unlikely, but I don't see why we'd suddenly have production or logistics issues.

https://www.currys.co.uk/products/nintendo-switch-pro-controller-10160719.html

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/6851387?clickSR=slp:term:nintendo switch joy con controller:14:44:1

https://www.game.co.uk/en/nintendo-switch-wireless-pro-controller-1712305

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N4ND1T2/

 

[Tams]

FullHD on 7" helps but now you have render an additional 2 million more pixels so firing up those CUDA cores for DLSS instead could consume much less power than rendering in 1080p. Also a 720p screen consumes less power than 1080p (this goes for both LED backlit and OLED).

This.

Honestly, if they can source a good 720p, with good a refresh rate and response times, and preferably OLED (with few burn-in issues), the that's good enough for 7".

There's absolutely no need to waste the power on 1080p. That pushes the display and the SoC harder for no significant gain. If it's good enough to read kanji easily on, then it's high enough resolution.