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[phonte]

o rly?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146440.html

conveniently absent context, the quote would provide cause for concern.

after reading the article, which discusses how sony has been slow to give developers necessary tools to tap the ps3's power, i stand by what i said.

there's a good chance the ps3's launch titles will look better than anything available for the 360, if development proceeds without any significant hitches.

 

[jax (old)]

I don't see any new Killzone picks in this thread but...

I take back whatever I said. I can't tell a difference between the GDC and E3 stuff.

good work doing that quick edit to take out the 2 other shots to leave the one very very apparent CG shot to compare it with that 1 shitty cam shot.

 

[Raistlin]

I don't see any new Killzone picks in this thread but...

I take back whatever I said. I can't tell a difference between the GDC and E3 stuff.

That isn't really a good comparison ...

please try again.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

That isn't really a good comparison ...

please try again.

I'm lazy, so that is all you're going to get. I'd go watch the MotorStorm video from E3, and then look at the GDC screens. It made me laugh.

Do you really even need to ask with him why he's so down on these games?

I would like to think because Sony blatantly lied about their E3 stuff being realtime. And all of the PS3 is going to be a generational leap above Xbox 1.5 crap... After all of that these screens just don't look very good.

Really though, I'm not trying to be inflammatory or troll. I just don't think these shots look that good at all. Especially after E3. I'll leave the thread now so you guys can enjoy the new media.



Oh yeah, I also don't need to question why you think these look good either

 

[Ramirez]

Man this place is so predictable

 

[Dr. Jade]

those warhawk pictures make me ache for Ace Combat 6

 

[phonte]

I would like to think because Sony blatantly lied about their E3 stuff being realtime. And all of the PS3 is going to be a generational leap above Xbox 1.5 crap... After all of that these screens just don't look very good.

Really though, I'm not trying to be inflammatory or troll. I just don't think these shots look that good at all. Especially after E3. I'll leave the thread now so you guys can enjoy the new media.



Oh yeah, I also don't need to question why you think these look good either

heavenly sword, which handily trumps the closest counterpart on the 360, n3, was realtime.

the getaway demo, which handily trumps graw, was realtime.

i mean, what do you want?

 

[Kolgar]

Original poster, thanks for the pics. A delightful way to start my Saturday.

After hearing all the negativity, I'm surprised and pleased by these shots. They serve as a reminder that the only eyes I can trust are my own.

I like what I see so far.

Edit: Can't blame people for being mad about Sony's deceit at E3. I think the jury's still out on how close the final games will actually come to those target renders, however.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm lazy, so that is all you're going to get. I'd go watch the MotorStorm video from E3, and then look at the GDC screens. It made me laugh.

You seem to forget that there were two different distinct 'looks' contained in the E3 video of Motostorm. There was the HOLY SHIT YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME 'replay' style footage ... and then there was the awesome but not nearly as insane 'gameplay' footage.

Think of it like the difference between Gran Tourismo 3 gameplay and replay graphics.

My point is simply that the GDC real-time demo doesn't look all that far from the E3 'gameplay' footage - at least from what I can tell from these blurry pics.

Oh yeah, I also don't need to question why you think these look good either

I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say here.

 

[Amir0x]

Thoughts:

Motorstorm looks NOTHING like the E3 video, the comments made were totally justified. That's a ridiculous drop.

Resistance looks pretty boring there, but technically it's fine.

Warhawk looks waaaaay better than I expected judging from the comments over GDC. It looks really freaking good. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the quality will follow over land: Judging from the TGS vid, it will. I mean it's not going to be the technical showpiece for PS3, but it's definitely not going to be the game you hide from your friends but buy anyway because it has good gameplay.

And finally: I'm calling bullshots on the Ratchet and Clank video. No way that's real-time.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Listening to a recording of the Sony keynote and Warhawk is shaping up to be a bit of a technical powerhouse from all the bullet points the developer was rolling out. Procedurally generated ocean (using vertex texturing perhaps?), using Cell for raytraced volumetric clouds, HDR, self-shadowing, ambient occlusion mapping, parallax mapping, 4xAA, and all @ 60 FPS with a boat load of shit flying around going boom. And its freakin' Incognito so you know its going to be polished and fun as hell. Cant wait to play this sucker.

 

[Kolgar]

And finally: I'm calling bullshots on the Ratchet and Clank video. No way that's real-time.

Reminded me of Kameo for 360. I'd believe the step up in visuals, but given there's been no mention of a PS3 R&C until now, I have a hard time swallowing that any progress they've made actually looks like that in realtime.

Edit: If so... bombs are dropping... in my pants.

 

[phonte]

Thoughts:

Motorstorm looks NOTHING like the E3 video, the comments made were totally justified. That's a ridiculous drop.

how're you able to say that it looks nothing like the e3 video from those screens?

i mean, if we were to look at it objectively, not from the perspective of someone clamoring for any evidence that the e3 demo was real, it's safe to say it comes DAMN close.

look at the buggy's modeling, its texturing, and the tracks left in its wake.

that's not impressive?

to say it's a "ridiculous drop" smacks of exxageration, imo.

 

[Kolgar]

Listening to a recording of the Sony keynote and Warhawk is shaping up to be a bit of a technical powerhouse from all the bullet points the developer was rolling out. Procedurally generated ocean (using vertex texturing perhaps?), using Cell for raytraced volumetric clouds, HDR, self-shadowing, ambient occlusion mapping, parallax mapping, 4xAA, and all @ 60 FPS with a boat load of shit flying around going boom. And its freakin' Incognito so you know its going to be polished and fun as hell. Cant wait to play this sucker.

Wasn't someone complaining about "static" clouds earlier? I'd heard the volumetric comment before as well - I'd just like to clear this up.

 

[SolidSnakex]

And finally: I'm calling bullshots on the Ratchet and Clank video. No way that's real-time.

As gofreak said, every video Sony showed at GDC was real time and the other game Insomniac is developing has been shown in real time since E3. It doesn't add up that it'd be anything other than real time.

 

[Amir0x]

how're you able to say that it looks nothing like the e3 video from those screens?

i mean, if we were to look at it objectively, not from the perspective of someone clamoring for any evidence that the e3 demo was real, it's safe to say it comes DAMN close.

look at the buggy's modeling, its texturing, and the tracks left in its wake.

that's not impressive?

to say it's a "ridiculous drop" smacks of exxageration, imo.

It doesn't look anywhere close. In the first pic, the textures are REALLY low-quality compared to the E3 video. The landscape is far more barren, and the motorcycle rider seems diminished in quality. Of course, I may need to see it in motion... but I hear the mud was pretty early too. It just is a terrible drop, and Sony should have known that was gonna happen. Ah well, nobody except us geeks will ever know.

As gofreak said, every video Sony showed at GDC was real time and the other game Insomniac is developing has been shown in real time since E3. It doesn't add up that it'd be anything other than real time.

Yeah, like Sony has been giving us the clearest answers on what is and isn't real-time this past year.

I'll form my own opinion on this. Bullshots on Ratchet and Clank, even if everything Insomniac has showed before is real-time. I'm thinking just to tease us that it IS coming.

 

[Raven.]

I don't see any new Killzone picks in this thread but...

I take back whatever I said. I can't tell a difference between the GDC and E3 stuff.

Uhmm, like one is in the middle of a spectacular crash, and the other's just demo'ing a single aspect, the mud deformation in the game in a simple mostly empty terrain set. Maybe you should take pics of a barren section, if there are, and compare those to the gdc demo. Remembering also ps3 final kits are said to've arrived late jan, so these are with at most about 1month on final. Asset quality wise it looks similar to the e3 demo, will have to see how much of the chaos of the e3 trailer they manage to implement in the final game.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Motorstorm looks NOTHING like the E3 video, the comments made were totally justified. That's a ridiculous drop.

Well the vehicle models certainly look up to par, but the terrain is obviously a lot more barren (judging from these blurry pics the PS2 texture comparison looks like some bullshit though). The purpose seemed to be to demonstrate the terrain and mud deformation more than anything, we'll see a more complete "work in progress" at E3 Im sure. I doubt this is going to be a launch title either way.

 

[Amir0x]

Well the vehicle models certainly look up to par, but the terrain is obviously a lot more barren (judging from these blurry pics the PS2 texture comparison looks like some bullshit though). The purpose seemed to be to demonstrate the terrain and mud deformation more than anything, we'll see a more complete "work in progress" at E3 Im sure. I doubt this is going to be a launch title either way.

I don't think they look up to par, but it's kinda hard to make a definitive judgment. But I've no doubt they have enough time to get a product that approximates what we saw in the first video... I just don't think this shows that. At all.

 

[Forsete]

I'm lazy, so that is all you're going to get. I'd go watch the MotorStorm video from E3, and then look at the GDC screens. It made me laugh.

Capture from the only scene in the E3 trailer which looked gameplayish.

http://www.ga-forum.com/showpost.php?p=3004303&postcount=72

Looks pretty close IMO.

 

[phonte]

It doesn't look anywhere close. In the first pic, the textures are REALLY low-quality compared to the E3 video. The landscape is far more barren, and the motorcycle rider seems diminished in quality. Of course, I may need to see it in motion... but I hear the mud was pretty early too. It just is a terrible drop, and Sony should have known that was gonna happen. Ah well, nobody except us geeks will ever know.



Yeah, like Sony has been giving us the clearest answers on what is and isn't real-time this past year.

I'll form my own opinion on this. Bullshots on Ratchet and Clank, even if everything Insomniac has showed before is real-time. I'm thinking just to tease us that it IS coming.

it's a segment taken out of the context of the game.

i think, as a whole, you may be surprised to find that the game just might match the e3 demo.

they're focusing on one car, in an attempt to highlight effects that, while early, they're developing.

i'm not denying that it's early, but i do think it's a tad unfair to suddenly conclude that the game has taken a huge drop in quality.

also, why're you so adamant that the r&c shots are bs?

 

[gofreak]

Wasn't someone complaining about "static" clouds earlier? I'd heard the volumetric comment before as well - I'd just like to clear this up.

The clouds could be volumetrically rendered, but if they're not moving I guess they might be considered "static". It'd be fairly trivial to simply impart some motion to them, perhaps less trivial to have them change shape, billow etc. (but with work I think it could be done, and since clouds change shape very slowly, you could distribute the calcs over many frames, which would be handy..the really intensive stuff here is the rendering, if we take their comment at face value).

 

[Pimpwerx]

1. STOP FUCKING MENTIONING OTHER SYSTEMS IN THREADS TARGETED TOWARDS A SINGLE PLATFORM. Clearly this is the catalyst for disaster. Want to keep threads on track? Stop bringing up other platforms, b/c that's when advocacy kicks in, and the threads always plunge in quality.

2. As I said last year, changes should be incremental, not monumental. I mean, there's still 8 months left, but I wouldn't exactly expect anything earth-shattering to take place between now and then. But keeping it all in perspective, these aren't exactly representative of the production levels of the games. These are demos made to show specific aspects of game design, not so much eye-candy. At least wait for E3, when actual games will be on display (both playable and in video form) before breaking out the old Jump To Conclusions game board. What's shown at E3 should be fairly representative of what we'll get in November. Until then, stow those pitchforks.

3. If you're gonna claim a company lied, bring some quotes. My memory must be failing me, but I just remember the two Sony execs on G4 using intentionally ambiguous wording in relation to what was realtime or not. We had a series of debates about what they really meant last Summer, and I don't remember anyone actually making an outright claim that the trailers for everyone's favorite two PS3 games being realtime. A lot of use of the word "gameplay" but very little in relation to graphics. Then again, my memory could be bad. In the end, this thread isn't even about any of that nonsense, it's about pics from GDC, so that stupid bickering should stay in a seperate thread.

Ah, boy. This forum will be a laugh-riot during E3. PEACE.

 

[RaijinFY]

Ah, boy. This forum will be a laugh-riot during E3. PEACE.

Thinking about it, I think I'm going to sleep this day. Anyway GAF's servers will die.

 

[Zombie James]

I really don't know what everyone's complaining about. Even if the real-time footage doesn't look exactly like what was shown at last year's E3, you're all forgetting some very important things:

- There's at least 7 1/2 months left in development (assuming these titles make it to launch).
- Final dev kits will be shipped in June, five months before launch.

Plenty of time to improve what's already impressive stuff.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

I don't think they look up to par, but it's kinda hard to make a definitive judgment. But I've no doubt they have enough time to get a product that approximates what we saw in the first video... I just don't think this shows that. At all.

Yeah its hard to get much grasp of the lighting off the dimly lit screen so its hard to compare. But the actual geometry, shading, and texturing of the vehicle models in the E3 trailer werent that other worldly looking at the direct feed shots. It was the deformation that stood out. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they're the same assets used in the GDC demo.

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614797/motorstorm-20060117013118163.jpg

 

[human5892]

I wish m0dus would come and bring some objectivity into this thread

 

[Chittagong]

1. STOP FUCKING MENTIONING OTHER SYSTEMS IN THREADS TARGETED TOWARDS A SINGLE PLATFORM. Clearly this is the catalyst for disaster. Want to keep threads on track? Stop bringing up other platforms, b/c that's when advocacy kicks in, and the threads always plunge in quality.

Agree

2. As I said last year for the 360

 

[AZ Greg]

Agree

:lol

 

[Pimpwerx]

Agree

Damn man, that is some self-ownage on my part. Let me edit it out. :lol PEACE.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yeah, like Sony has been giving us the clearest answers on what is and isn't real-time this past year.

That just doesn't add up for everything else to be real time but they a R&C CG trailer. From those screens it looks like a realistic step up from where Ratchet currently is

I think ND's game will look even better than R&C PS3.

 

[AniHawk]

I need Ratchet & Clank. That would be a fucking awesome PS3 game. Please make it ASAP Insomniac.

 

[Lakitu]

I hope ND's PS3 game (or one of them) is Jak & Daxter 2.

 

[hadareud]

Yeah..no. That's really not typically the case in game development at all. Even with final hardware a game might be chugging along at 5 or 10fps at one point, but come release, look a lot better and run a lot smoother. Your hardware technology may not change between the two points, but nearly every other kind of tech (your algorithmics, your development tools, your software optimisations, your assets etc.) can and probably will.

That's exactly what I meant by this though:

so whatever they look like now is what they are likely to look like come launch (with a few minor changes, such as framerate and other tweaks).

I'm just saying that it is highly unlikely that the graphics will improve drastically from this point.

 

[phonte]

I really don't know what everyone's complaining about. Even if the real-time footage doesn't look exactly like what was shown at last year's E3, you're all forgetting some very important things:

- There's at least 7 1/2 months left in development (assuming these titles make it to launch).
- Final dev kits will be shipped in June, five months before launch.

Plenty of time to improve what's already impressive stuff.

nicely put.

 

[phonte]

I'm just saying that it is highly unlikely that the graphics will improve drastically from this point.

why?

there're a lot of effects missing, and some of the texturing, which is already impressive, could be temporary.

what you're saying doesn't jibe with reality.

it already looks good, so there's no need for a drastic improvement -- just a natural progression to completion will suffice.

 

[Liquid]

-Ratchet and clank looks AMAZING. that alone may be my reason for ps3 purchase if its at launch. my god.

-The getaway looks like PGR3

-Warhawk is missing the 100s of planes on the screen from last year

-Motorstorm looks good but the problem is the level detail has been chopped. The car seems to look the same but those ground textures are indeed PS2 quality save the tire tracks.

I wouldnt be so quick to say any of the "meh" looking demos wont turn out to be spectacular looking games. I mean look a pgr3 a few months before release. Those could be placeholder textures in motorstorm but it is kinda odd to show off something that isn't up to what they showed at e3.

 

[Foil]

I hope ND's PS3 game (or one of them) is Jak & Daxter 2.

Ditto. I hope they go back to the style of the first game.

 

[Shompola]

Screenshots are blurry, lowres crap... How the hell can you people argue page after page when the screenshots are void of any detail?

 

[Sinn Fein]

I don't want to get too drawn into this argument about "power". Both systems are powerful. It's not really possible to say whether they're exactly comparable to each other or not at this point, but obviously they won't end up being exactly the same.

What excites me about the ps3 games so far are these "next gen" gameplay/graphic features, like the dirt in Motorstorm or the background activity and ocean behaviour in Warhawk. I mean, that stuff sounds so cool and exactly like the kind of thing we haven't heard of from other released/developing next gen games. I'm hoping for more than just some improved graphics next gen for sure. I think that's why I find myself more interested in the Revolution and ps3 ATM.

Anyway, in reality these shots are cool to see but hard to really draw anything from. They look intriguing to me. The E3 demos from last year were hardly running in realtime on a dev kit or real system, but to say they're beyond what could be done or were completely falsely fabricated isn't really fair. They're trailers. Animations, events, camera angles are all dramatized just like other trailers and cutscenes. Pretty much anyone who wants to, even if the end game looks as good, can say it's far below what was "offered".

I think from a visual standpoint they should be able to do pretty well compared to that stuff, but whether the gameplay will "feel" like watching those E3 videos "felt" remains to be seen. I'm very excited for E3 though, just to see whatever ps3/revo stuff is shown -- though I assume a lot will still remain hidden for now. All the physics, AI, animation potential of Cell and the ps3 is exciting to me though. That's what I'm interested in, as well as my favorite game series.

 

[Raven.]

With regards to warhawk, 4xAA, 60fps, likely high lvls of Aniso. As I've said in the past each of these features rare alone, let alone combined on titles for a certain other competing platform. 100s of enemies volumetric clouds, procedural oceans, impressive stuff. Demo with at most one month on RSX ps3 kits.

As for the e3 comments, during the e3 presentation cg footage was only seen during the final game trailers showing, no where else in the conference was there cg footage. Amidst those trailers only 3 cg trailers stand out above the many other trailers, many of which were realtime, Killzone, Tekken, Motorstorm are those 3 trailers. The fact remains that many of the realtime ps3*(weakest and oldest ps3 dev. kits and many at 60fps) trailers looked so good that it made many think these 3 trailers too were realtime at the time.

Subsequent to that many realtime ps3 trailers have still been mistaken even in these boards for cgi or have been considered impossible to achieve. FFVII, R&C, MGS4,GTvision, have all been mistaken for cg, and have been said to be impossible to achieve on ps3, these are mere realtime demos most on beta(mgs4, gtvision), pre-beta(ffvii) h/w, most at what is said to be a solid 60fps.

 

[Amir0x]

That just doesn't add up for everything else to be real time but they a R&C CG trailer. From those screens it looks like a realistic step up from where Ratchet currently is

I think ND's game will look even better than R&C PS3.

I guess we just have a different view of a 'realistic step up'. This looks FAAAAAR beyond the pic you posted. Not just "next-gen beyond" either.

But hey, we'll see what happens

 

[Zen]

GDC confirmed both Motorstorm and Warhawk were CG.

I'm not disagreeing that Motorstorm was faked to some degree, but you're statement is flat out wrong. There was no proof that MotorStorm adn Warhawk were CG. None.

 

[jax (old)]

-Motorstorm looks good but the problem is the level detail has been chopped. The car seems to look the same but those ground textures are indeed PS2 quality save the tire tracks.

How do you make out the ps2 texture on that mud shot? Please tell me what magical device you used. Its looks good imo.

what would say about the ground texture in that shot then - considering it doesn't deform.

 

[Raistlin]

what would say about the ground texture in that shot then - considering it doesn't deform.

PS1

 

[Count Chocula]

dang, PS3 is going to be nice.

The lighting looks really good in these. Especially Warhark.

 

[DSN2K]

there is a reason this sort of footage is typically shown to developers...its early and incomplete and as developers they can see past these issues and understand what's been shown.

 

[Phranky]

With regards to warhawk, 4xAA, 60fps, likely high lvls of Aniso. As I've said in the past each of these features rare alone, let alone combined on titles for a certain other competing platform. 100s of enemies volumetric clouds, procedural oceans, impressive stuff. Demo with at most one month on RSX ps3 kits.

"Procedural oceans, Volumetric clouds, 4xAA all at 60fps?! Must buy!"

 

[momolicious]

JAK AND DAXTER 2 PLEASE

 

[Kolgar]

The major improvements I'm expecting from PS3 won't be noticeable in screens.

Next-gen physics, baby. Ken, show us the way.