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[Maxim726X]

It is when it's not what the topic is really about, and it's obviously just a way to start up the tired old primary discussion to pound your chest for Bernie, but most didn't take your bait thankfully, so just go on about your business

Psst. I didn't vote for Bernie, and vocally supported Clinton.

Take the fantasy that exists only in your mind somewhere else. The adults are talking.

 

[Maintenance]

I seriously believe Democracy needs a set of standards when it comes to voting.

It's always been too dangerous when you let people vote for any reason or refuse to do any fact checking before hand.

Just like how you have to pass a test or meet a certain requirement to apply for a job, voting needs similar regulations.

Lmao, that's not Democracy you want. With Republicans in charge, the test will only allow whites to vote, so you are getting monkey paw'd.

 

[Nepenthe]

Democratic policies favor the wealthy. So let's elect a billionaire.

Take that liberals.

 

[slit]

Why does it have to target minorities? I think a test that determines whether you're a sensible adult would do more good to weed out the stupid people.

Taking a test can have many cultural variables that effect the results, even down to the phrasing of questions. You could have a situation where the test is geared more towards one group than another. Anyway, it's a pipe dream. Anything like that would not pass constitutional muster.

 

[KarmaCow]

Why does it have to target minorities? I think a test that determines whether you're a sensible adult would do more good to weed out the stupid & hateful people.

Could you outline what that test would be? At best, you're arguing for voter suppression.

 

[Rentahamster]

He bankrupted like 6 companies, how can anyone want to trust the economy to him? Doesn't compute.

Bankrupting 6 companies is not a good argument against his business acumen when he ran hundreds more successfully, gained a billion dollars, lost a billion dollars, and then gained it all back again.

 

[Maxim726X]

Lmao, that's not Democracy you want. With Republicans in charge, the test will only allow whites to vote, so you are getting monkey paw'd.

Yeah, that would burn the Democrats reeeeaaaaaal fast.

But I understand what he was trying to say- It would be nice if there was some requisite knowledge level that people could meet before ignorantly casting their vote. Sadly, we all know how that would practically play out.

 

[Darryl M R]

I seriously believe Democracy needs a set of standards when it comes to voting.

It's always been too dangerous when you let people vote for any reason or refuse to do any fact checking before hand.

Just like how you have to pass a test or meet a certain requirement to apply for a job, voting needs similar regulations.

"How many bubble gum balls are in this jar?"

 

[Lord Frieza]

Psst. I didn't vote for Bernie, and vocally supported Clinton.

Take the fantasy that exists only in your mind somewhere else. The adults are talking.

Yeah, yeah sure, if the adults are talking, you can exit then. You ain't fooling anybody with that shit, you and everyone else knows what you were trying to do, so go on about your business.

Why does it have to target minorities? I think a test that determines whether you're a sensible adult would do more good to weed out the stupid & hateful people.

I mean, the only way it really works is if there's an independent and totally impartial party to regulate these standards, and even then, it would still have the potential to be abused to a significant degree. What it would basically amount to is another form of gerrymandering, only worse.

 

[kirblar]

Political correctness: how the right invented a phantom enemy

As Trump prepares to enter the White House, many pundits have concluded that “political correctness” fuelled the populist backlash sweeping Europe and the US. The leaders of that backlash may say so. But the truth is the opposite: those leaders understood the power that anti-political-correctness has to rally a class of voters, largely white, who are disaffected with the status quo and resentful of shifting cultural and social norms. They were not reacting to the tyranny of political correctness, nor were they returning America to a previous phase of its history. They were not taking anything back. They were wielding anti-political-correctness as a weapon, using it to forge a new political landscape and a frightening future.

As someone else put it- Racism is a luxury item for these voters.

 

[Sulik2]

This survey basically confirms the wall street bailout cost the democrats this election. People didn't forget it. They are stupid and didn't look at Trump and the GOP's reality. But too big to fail stuck with people. Its what made Bernie resonate with so many people was attacking wall street. If the dems want to win in 2018 and 2020 they need to go all in on taxing corporations and wall street and promising single payer. It doesn't matter if single payer can happen, they need a populist message and thats the one that seems to resonate right now.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Bankrupting 6 companies is not a good argument against his business acumen when he ran hundreds more successfully, gained a billion dollars, lost a billion dollars, and then gained it all back again.

Is this like a joke based on what people think, or do you really believe this.

 

[Toxi]

Bankrupting 6 companies is not a good argument against his business acumen when he ran hundreds more successfully, gained a billion dollars, lost a billion dollars, and then gained it all back again.

As the last 100 days prove, his business acumen means shit.

 

[Realyst]

Like the better Clinton campaign says: It's the economy, stupid.

Hey fellow Dems. Next time let's not run a candidate with alltime deplorable ratings + has the FBI on her ass until the very end of a campaign. Let's vote for someone that will work at least half as hard/smart as Obama did in the battleground states, instead of flying home every night like Sec. Clinton. Would've and should've won against the goddamn billionaire birther/rookie



And on top of that Trump actually showed up on the trail (rallies) and like you said dominated all forms of media. Hillary and Dems were no-shows and even gave up on traditional campaign advertising for moneyball bullshit, they made history for the wrong reasons like skipping WI. Dems got mixed messaging and no presence, bad mix

That's what happens when you're a well-known politician that gave the opposition DECADES of material and effort to tarnish your name and record with heinous bullshit. Why do you think "but her emails" is still a meme? Republicans have campaigned on destroying her since 1992.

Hindsight is 20/20. No one would've taken Trump seriously with all of his negatives. She won the popular vote. Stop relitigating the election and figure out how to educate these ignorant voters.

 

[Suikoguy]

Is this like a joke based on what people think, or do you really believe this.

It's Rentahamster, who knows.

IIRC, Trump's investments kept pace with inflation, and that's it.

 

[IamDodongo]

Let's not over-complicate things. The thinking (for those who can be swayed) can be summed up as:

1. Obama has been president for 8 years, and my life hasn't gotten appreciably better.
2. I'm not voting D next time

That's it.

Millions of Americans are honestly that simple-minded.

 

[Lord Frieza]

It's Rentahamster, who knows.

Never truer words, lol

 

[JordanN]

Could you outline what that test would be? At best, you're arguing for voter suppression.

Test people on their knowledge of the economy, science, social issues etc.

So if you're voting for the economy, is it because you can pinpoint reasons that leads to a downturn in economic activities or is it because Make America Great Again!™?

 

[Maxim726X]

That's what happens when you're a well-known politician that gave the opposition DECADES of material and effort to tarnish your name and record with heinous bullshit. Why do you think "but her emails" is still a meme? Republicans have campaigned on destroying her since 1992.

Hindsight is 20/20. No one would've taken Trump seriously with all of his negatives. She won the popular vote. Stop relitigating the election and figure out how to educate these ignorant voters.

That's what we're discussing.

Apparently, populism is in... And real, substantive policy discussion is something people don't really care for.

It's worth looking at why she failed and Trump is president. I have no idea where all of this 'stop relitigating the primary/election' talk is coming from. It was 6 fucking months ago, we're not talking about ancient history here.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Test people on their knowledge of the economy, science, social issues etc.

So if you're voting for the economy, is it because you can pinpoint reasons that leads to a downturn in economic activities or is it because Make America Great Again!™?

I mean, who do you suggest oversee all of this.

 

[thecouncil]

I seriously believe Democracy needs a set of standards when it comes to voting.

It's always been too dangerous when you let people vote for any reason or refuse to do any fact checking before hand.

Just like how you have to pass a test or meet a certain requirement to apply for a job, voting needs similar regulations.

That's a great idea that doesn't sound like it could be exploited at all.

 

[SpecX]

She had a lot of shit on a website that she constantly told people to go check for themselves.

That shits not gonna cut it.

This was great, but not everyone is going to seek out this info which is why she needed to be more vocal about what she planned to do and get to the states/people she wanted to win over.

 

[CountAntonius]

Keep them poor, uneducated and angry then feed them lies and give them scapegoats. It works really well.

 

[Maxim726X]

This was great, but not everyone is going to seek out this info which is why she needed to be more vocal about what she planned to do and get to the states/people she wanted to win over.

Didn't see a single ad based on jobs here in NY, only the 'Trump is a piece of shit, and this is why' ads.

Granted, NY was firmly in her pocket so I don't know what it was like around the country.

 

[Suikoguy]

This was great, but not everyone is going to seek out this info which is why she needed to be more vocal about what she planned to do and get to the states/people she wanted to win over.

No doubt, it was destined to fail since people don't care enough to spend 15 minutes one evening looking at a website.

Honestly, it was one of her top 3 mistakes.
She needed bullet point platitudes, instead of website references.

 

[wandering]

Why does it have to target minorities? I think a test that determines whether you're a sensible adult would do more good to weed out the stupid & hateful people.

Are you unaware of the history of voting tests used to disenfranchise non-white Americans in the 20th century?

https://youtu.be/1YRUUFYeOPI

 

[Abounder]

That's what happens when you're a well-known politician that gave the opposition DECADES of material and effort to tarnish your name and record with heinous bullshit. Why do you think "but her emails" is still a meme? Republicans have campaigned on destroying her since 1992.

Hindsight is 20/20. No one would've taken Trump seriously with all of his negatives. She won the popular vote. Stop relitigating the election and figure out how to educate these ignorant voters.

Hillary earned a lot of that "sniper fire" herself, and swiftboating is part of the game. She had alltime terrible ratings and the FBI on her ass before the first vote, that alone is too risky for the party to go all-in on. What is especially inexcusable though was her lazy and stupid campaigning especially after decades of experience. It was still very winnable if only she campaigned like Bill/Barrack did instead of taking voters for granted. Instead she let the billionaire birther and campaign rookie outwork her.

 

[Realyst]

Test people on their knowledge of the economy, science, social issues etc.

So if you're voting for the economy, is it because you can pinpoint reasons that leads to a downturn in economic activities or is it because Make America Great Again!™?

"Oh, you went to a mostly-impoverished school that didn't receive enough funding to hire enough economics and science teachers? A whole generation of students like you didn't receive the proper education that would help you understand the basic principles behind the questions on this voter registration test? Sorry, you can't vote until you get a passing grade."

 

[Jmanunknown]

I mean yeah, but there's poor messaging and then there's an inability to perceive reality.

This is true its like these people live in a separate reality. This part

”The one percent."

”The status quo."

”They're for the party. Themselves and the party."

One woman, asked whether the Democratic Party is for people like her, flatly declared: ”Nope."

from the article is straight from the republican playbook . These people have fallen for the the bs projection that republicans do all the time. Its like they are members of a cult who have drunk the kool aid. The reality of the situation is a mix of fear,racism, xenophobia,sexism, tribalism, the media, and the economy attributed to Trump's victory.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

This was great, but not everyone is going to seek out this info which is why she needed to be more vocal about what she planned to do and get to the states/people she wanted to win over.

It's cute you think they had any intention of listening to her.

 

[Herr Schwarz]

Plus the money worshipping culture people got going. They go on instagram and the bookface and see all these people living lives they will never lead.

They look at themselves after 8 years. See that nothing has changed, whilst looking at these rich folk on instagram sat in a bath tub full of money or on holiday at a beautiful beach. They resent them and hate themselves.

 

[Supast4r]

Hate to bring this up from the dead- But I'm starting to think that a populist like Bernie is exactly what the party needs, and would probably be president right now had he been the Democratic nominee.

And before anyone says it- I supported Clinton from the word go, and thought Bernie was nothing but hot air and empty promises.

But I guess that's what people go to the polls for? I don't know.

Dems need someone with Bernies messaging on domestic issues. If joe bidens son didn't die he would be president. I'm 100 percent confident in that.

 

[SpecX]

It's cute you think they had any intention of listening to her.

True that was a whole different issue, but when odds are stacked against you, you don't let simple shit like this slip by.

 

[Maxim726X]

Test people on their knowledge of the economy, science, social issues etc.

So if you're voting for the economy, is it because you can pinpoint reasons that leads to a downturn in economic activities or is it because Make America Great Again!™?

I understand where you're coming from, honestly... But you really have to consider what a 'test' would look like, who would administer it, and who would be disadvantaged from it.

It is going to unfairly disenfranchise lower income voters, further propagating inequality.

 

[Stinkles]

They basically just believe whoever told them the last, loudest thing, the most times.

Democrats don't need to change anything, they just need better marketing. Doesn't have to be clever. Just repeat it a lot ad make it easier to remember.


They even gave you a head start:

"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."
"Clueless billionaires who lie all the time."

 

[bachikarn]

There is definitely a messaging problem. I could understand if it was simply "the last 8 years weren't good to me. Im going to give the next guy a chance." But here, it was straight up that they think Democrats are the party of the rich. I can def see how Democrats have cozied up to the more than in the past, but Democrat messaging failed hard if any former Democratic voters actually thought Republicans are better for the working class than the Dems.

 

[JordanN]

"Oh, you went to a mostly-impoverished school that didn't receive enough funding to hire enough economics and science teachers? A whole generation of students like you didn't receive the proper education that would help you understand the basic principles behind the questions on this voter registration test? Sorry, you can't vote until you get a passing grade."

I don't think Trump voters are geniuses and that's kinda the point.

If they're as educated as they say they are, they wouldn't have voted for Trump without having to first be put to the task of critically thinking about his policies and then returning with evidence to justify their viewpoint.

 

[djplaeskool]

Part of Hillary's problem was also being a policy wonk and not really being able to distill a message into vacuous sound bites.

"<Insert economic goal here> is complicated but realistically achievable. Check the website for details." doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
I think Democrats will forever struggle with the projection of nuance because they are willing to admit that governance is nuanced as fuck.

 

[MWS Natural]

White people really don't like owning up to their racism huh?

 

[Maxim726X]

Part of Hillary's problem was also being a policy wonk and not really being able to distill a message into vacuous sound bites.

"<Insert economic goal here> is complicated but realistically achievable. Check the website for details." doesn't quite roll off the tongue.
I think Democrats will forever struggle with the projection of nuance because they are willing to admit that governance is nuanced as fuck.

Right, and that's where Bernie's 'free college, free healthcare, fuck the top 1%' message resonates.

It's simple, albeit completely unattainable. But apparently people don't really care about that, they just like being promised the world. No one wants to talk about policy, that shit is boring.

 

[Suikoguy]

White people really don't like owning up to their racism huh?

In many ways, Diet Racism is the most dangerous.

 

[kirblar]

Right, and that's where Bernie's 'free college, free healthcare, fuck the top 1%' message resonates.

It's simple, albeit completely unattainable. But apparently people don't really care about that, they just like being promised the world. No one wants to talk about policy, that shit is boring.

And then when Bernie doesn't get them the world, you get an insane backlash.

 

[Rentahamster]

Is this like a joke based on what people think, or do you really believe this.

Aside from my number rounding for conciseness, did I say anything untrue?

As the last 100 days prove, his business acumen means shit.

We're talking about evaluating his past as a review of his success or lack thereof.

It's Rentahamster, who knows.

IIRC, Trump's investments kept pace with inflation, and that's it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this, because that's not true.

 

[Realyst]

Hillary earned a lot of that "sniper fire" herself, and swiftboating is part of the game. She had alltime terrible ratings and the FBI on her ass before the first vote, that alone is too risky for the party to go all-in on. What is especially inexcusable though was her lazy and stupid campaigning especially after decades of experience. It was still very winnable if only she campaigned like Bill/Barrack did instead of taking voters for granted. Instead she let the billionaire birther and campaign rookie outwork her.

Do you think she would've won if she were up against some non-enigmatic, boring, 60+ years old white dude? I think she would have. My point being that Trump went against all known strategies and models for winning. He had automatic media coverage because it drove ratings. It wasn't his charisma that drove ratings, it was his absurdity. He had so many negatives that there was almost no amount of opposition research that could've made him lose any more points or flip voters back to D. He was at his approval floor the entire time.

 

[Maxim726X]

And then when Bernie doesn't get them the world, you get an insane backlash.

Win elections. I would hope that our party wouldn't be highjacked by fringe idealists (I'm looking at you, Justice Democrats), and they can get things passed. Particularly if the Senate filibuster is nuked... Which could happen during Trump's tenure.

Gotta win elections first.

 

[Realyst]

I don't think Trump voters are geniuses and that's kinda the point.

If they're as educated as they say that are, they wouldn't have voted for Trump without having to first be put to the task of critically thinking about his policies and then returning with evidence to justify their viewpoint.

You'd be surprised. Trump's most loyal base wasn't the lower class, less educated, rural voter (at least, they weren't the majority). Turns out it was the middle/upper-middle class suburban voters that put him over. I wish I could easily find the stats to put up for you to see, but what you're talking about wouldn't keep him from being elected.

 

[Pryce]

On how Dem's can better focus their message.

Yes, Hillary had better policies (than Trump) but she didn't "dumb it down" for the average voter. Trump went up there and said "Border wall!", "MAGA!", "bring back jobs!". That stuff gets stuff in people's mind even if it's all bullshit.

Likewise, Bernie's slogans of "free college", "15 minimum wage", "fuck wall-street" worked well because they were short and simple and something one could rally behind. Hillary's ideas of "free tuition for those making below 125,000 a year!" may make more sense, but there's no rallying there. Dem ideas or plans poll well. Some very well. They need to better their communication skills heading into 2018 in large ways.

 

[The Technomancer]

Win elections. I would hope that our party wouldn't be highjacked by fringe idealists (I'm looking at you, Justice Democrats), and they can get things passed. Particularly if the Senate filibuster is nuked... Which could happen during Trump's tenure.

Gotta win elections first.

Yup. Looks like we might too

 

[Particle Physicist]

How does this correlate with Trump voters magically going from thinking the economy was in the shitter to doing great as soon as Trump took office?

 

[Abounder]

Do you think she would've won if she were up against some non-enigmatic, boring, 60+ years old white dude? I think she would have. My point being that Trump went against all known strategies and models for winning. He had automatic media coverage because it drove ratings. It wasn't his charisma that drove ratings, it was his absurdity. He had so many negatives that there was almost no amount of opposition research that could've made him lose any more points or flip voters back to D. He was at his approval floor the entire time.

(Probably) The only candidates Trump & Clinton could win against in the general were eachother. Both Trump & Clinton were lazy assholes when it comes to campaigning (flying home every night smh) but I disagree - the rookie birther followed campaigning 101 by dominating the media and trail/rallies vs his opponent. It was the Hillary camp that tried to go against the traditional models by skipping WI, not polling well, skipping TV and other traditional ads, etc. What Trump really changed was exploiting social media. Meanwhile Hillary had a streak of no press conferences as she hid away from the FBI and public eye. She should never have been allowed to been the party's favorite, way too risky and terrible @ campaigning.