Nightengale
Member
It's definitely an unfortunate stigma that's difficult for many games with these aesthetics and storytelling beats to shake off in most places.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
New Tokyo Xanadu (JP) trailer is out
- Thread starter Parakeetman
- Start date
It's definitely an unfortunate stigma that's difficult for many games with these aesthetics and storytelling beats to shake off in most places.
PixyJunket
Member
Honestly? I'm less annoyed at them using the name Xanadu than I am them not making another game like Xanadu Next, if that makes sense. I wouldn't care about this game if they had something else in the pipes that felt like pre-Kiseki Falcom.
I will still keep an eye on it for the gameplay, but Ys Seven and Celceta haven't filled me with much hope on that front (though Celceta fixed a good number of my issues with Seven, so hope is partially filled).
Go on, tell me more about NeoGAF.
There's other discussion, but when the marketing is focused on a particular aspect, it's only natural for people to discuss that. They have not focused on the action at all. This is in fact some of the first real footage of the action we've gotten, and it's not even that much. Past gameplay clips have only been a couple of seconds at most. What are we supposed to be talking about?
PixyJunket
Member
Are we still ignoring that a majority of the belly-aching in this thread is coming from long-time Falcom and Xanadu fans?
That's hardly a "western perspective."
Nightengale
Member
That was a rude mistake that makes foolish assumptions on my part. That's why I edited.
I apologise for that.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Maybe the idols are the end bosses you have to kill to save Tokyo from bad musicianship.
That's a very interesting game: school setting, free exploration around the city, action RPG formula, great anime style.
That's the Falcom X Persona action RPG I'd be very pleased to welcome in my collection if localized.
However I have one concern: I listened a lot of VA in the trailer, and I hope it's doesn't prevent the game from coming here because licensing issues of some sort (my biggest fear is the game will have full VA), like Kiseki Evo games ( I know in the latter case the licensing scenario is far more complex than the full VA issue itself, but it is an important element, and I don't think XSEED could take the risk to invest on a niche game requiring a huge dubbing work)
That's the Falcom X Persona action RPG I'd be very pleased to welcome in my collection if localized.
However I have one concern: I listened a lot of VA in the trailer, and I hope it's doesn't prevent the game from coming here because licensing issues of some sort (my biggest fear is the game will have full VA), like Kiseki Evo games ( I know in the latter case the licensing scenario is far more complex than the full VA issue itself, but it is an important element, and I don't think XSEED could take the risk to invest on a niche game requiring a huge dubbing work)
michaelius
Banned
Looks very solid. Definitly on my wishlist for 2016.
I am indeed tired of seeing so much complaining about "modern Falcom."
Falcom hasn't changed, the game/anime industry has changed. Falcom has always made games that go along with the currently popular anime style, whether it be the high fantasy aesthetic of Ys, or the Slayers-esque style of Popful Mail.
Hell, here's some art from Legend of Xanadu II:
Remember the GIANT SHOULDERPADS of that era, too? Ys 4 took part as well:
I've already said that it sometimes feels like people trapped in the 80s and 90s want to hold back Falcom and keep them stuck in the past just because they can't get over how 'anime USED to be.'
Things have changed, it's a new era.
Falcom hasn't changed, the game/anime industry has changed. Falcom has always made games that go along with the currently popular anime style, whether it be the high fantasy aesthetic of Ys, or the Slayers-esque style of Popful Mail.
Hell, here's some art from Legend of Xanadu II:
Remember the GIANT SHOULDERPADS of that era, too? Ys 4 took part as well:
I've already said that it sometimes feels like people trapped in the 80s and 90s want to hold back Falcom and keep them stuck in the past just because they can't get over how 'anime USED to be.'
Things have changed, it's a new era.
Nightengale
Member
The gameplay trailer is 5:22 minutes long.
3:40-3:50 is idol stuff. That is 10 seconds. The rest is movies, gameplay, UI, advertisement etc.
But the only discussion I see here is about those 10 seconds. That is what I meant.
No, I agree with you there. Falcom's new artist they use for everything sucks and I dislike their work greatly. Katsumi Enami and that unknown artist who did the Sora designs are awesome.
Thanks for the insight. I tried reading the Tokyo Xanadu thread on 2ch but navigating through it is kind of a pain if you are not used to the board structure...
Any predicitions on how well this will sell? Since there is no PS3 Version unlike the newest Kiseki games I guess it won't reach Sen numbers?
PixyJunket
Member
The difference, at least how I see it, is that they used to design games that simply had an anime aesthetic.
Now they are starting with the anime aesthetic and placing a game around that.
And let's not pretend that the Lodoss/Slayers style was as popular and pervasive as the current high school/idol stuff is now. Back then, that's simply the style that best fit the games they were making. Now they are just following a trend hoping to get a piece of the pie.
God, I miss those. Why won't anyone bring spaulders back?! Best armor trend ever!
Unfortunately!
I miss the '80s and early '90s anime style. That's when anime art had real class.
Tokyo Xanadu looks good, though! But considering Xanadu Next is one of my favorite Falcom games of all time, it is somewhat disappointing to see such a jarring difference in tone and setting -- and I think that's really what people in here are complaining about most of all. It's not the art style, but the fact that this is a Xanadu game set in a modern urban setting and starring a bunch of high school kids. You can use modern-day anime art in a fantasy setting just fine, and I would've been much more interested in this if it were more of a traditional Xanadu title in that respect.
But this ain't Xanadu Next Next, this is Tokyo Xanadu. And for what it is, it looks intriguing enough that I'm looking forward to playing it next month.
-Tom
I don't think it's fair for you to divine the purpose behind making this game as 'trying to follow a trend.' As said by Falcom, this project is being tackled by the younger staff on board at the company, and I don't see anything disingenuous about them making a game with elements they want to put in. What makes you think they're just following a trend? Why can't they just be making a game they want to make?
And why do you think that their design philosophy has changed, when from what I can tell they're designing games like they always have?
I kind of feel like a lot of the tone here is 'old man yells at cloud' in regards to the evolution of the anime/game industry in Japan.
I'll ask it again then, since we want different discussion:
Is it even known at this point or can we only speculate? Is this directly linked to any other game in the franchise?
That was some Evangelion level disaster, loved it.
XSEED PLSSSSSSSSS
Btw, you should check Ushio to Tora, it's a current adaptation of a shounen manga of that time, I really love its style. "Old school" (if I'm allowed to use that word for the 90s) art with today's tech really looks amaziong.
Is it even known at this point or can we only speculate? Is this directly linked to any other game in the franchise?
That was some Evangelion level disaster, loved it.
XSEED PLSSSSSSSSS
Btw, you should check Ushio to Tora, it's a current adaptation of a shounen manga of that time, I really love its style. "Old school" (if I'm allowed to use that word for the 90s) art with today's tech really looks amaziong.
Yeah, I liked tons of series from that era. I just hate the idea of being that guy who says culture was best when I was a teenager and marketing was aimed at me and now everything sucks because it's for today's teenagers.
Times change. I got to enjoy Lodoss and Patlabor and stuff, and that was nice. There's nothing wrong with missing it, either - it's just the constant whining from so many people about change.
PixyJunket
Member
Developers are people too. We have our Persona fans among us who want really badly to make a game like Persona. Hell, I'm working on my own personal project outside work which is heavily Oath in Felghana-influenced. I've wanted to make plenty of things inspired by current industry-popular titles, too.
One of my most dreamed about games is a Muv-Luv universe mecha title with awesome combat controls. Yes, I'm aware of the fan project, it's dead ATM.
All the anime (settings/ theme/ style) hate here is ridiculous.
Japaneses makers make Japanese games for modern day audiences, which consist mostly Japanese in their mind.
It is too Japanese okay.
It isn't even filled with all fan service anime crap that modern anime does a lot of.
It looks decent, animations in battles are a bit meh, but doesn't hurt much.
Japaneses makers make Japanese games for modern day audiences, which consist mostly Japanese in their mind.
It is too Japanese okay.
It isn't even filled with all fan service anime crap that modern anime does a lot of.
It looks decent, animations in battles are a bit meh, but doesn't hurt much.
Inspiration is good, but I think inspiration has two sides; inspiring from yourself and inspiring people who are viewing what you've created.
So I think when I see this design (once again I don't know anything about Xanadu, so I don't know what the gameplay is about) which doesn't seem to differentiate itself from other popular works artistically or presentation-wise with scenes it feels like a quick mainstream cash grab rather than a homage or inspired work.
Of course I'm basing this off emotion and "feel" and not logical reasoning, so my argument may be weak... but imagine if you created a trailer for your project which made me think you had just cashed out on an Oath clone. That's sort of the similar scenario I'm trying to talk about.
No, I understand what you mean. You make a good point.
The thing is, though, the difference between creating something that is an 'homage and inspiration' and 'trying to follow the money' is a very thin line. You can't always tell the difference between fans who really, really liked something and made their own title using some of those elements, and someone who doesn't necessarily like something but saw it was making money and made their own title using some of those elements.
As far as RPGs go, Trails is a great series. Be warned though, the first game is mostly a prologue to the second game which is coming out in the coming months - if you don't like a nice chill-paced worldbuilding adventure where you solve people's problems and have witty banter, a lot of small-town characterization and small scale stuff, the start of the game might not be for you. Don't go in expecting to save the world.
I think is more like the FE series it-self (which, tbqh, is not a bad example). But unless Falcom is making another Xanadu and this is being made by Atlus I would say that's why it might not be "that bad of a deal" to you while it is to those fans.
I don't feel like this kind of style is as generic as it seems when you put quality among the filters you're using.
As a fan of this "anime aesthetic" kind of game, I'm way too used to games that lean on humor as a way to make up for the lack of actual quality. You deal with a subpar game because it's really funny, that's the most common kind of anime game, but this style of anime aesthetic with what seems to be a high quality and budget game is not as common as it may seem for people who are not into this style. We're really starving for a game like this, actually.
Aside from Tokyo Xanadu, what else there is in this level using this kind of style? Persona 5 and that's pretty much it, right? Maybe Digimon, if you count actual anime franchises?
So, seeing this anime style but not only as "oh those scenes look cool, too bad the game will suck", but as "can't wait to play this" is very refreshing.
As a fan of this "anime aesthetic" kind of game, I'm way too used to games that lean on humor as a way to make up for the lack of actual quality. You deal with a subpar game because it's really funny, that's the most common kind of anime game, but this style of anime aesthetic with what seems to be a high quality and budget game is not as common as it may seem for people who are not into this style. We're really starving for a game like this, actually.
Aside from Tokyo Xanadu, what else there is in this level using this kind of style? Persona 5 and that's pretty much it, right? Maybe Digimon, if you count actual anime franchises?
So, seeing this anime style but not only as "oh those scenes look cool, too bad the game will suck", but as "can't wait to play this" is very refreshing.
Honestly that sounds almost more interesting to me, as long as the world they are building is interesting. So is the first game almost slice of life? I have it on steam, I'll have to start playing it. I know there have been a bunch of JP-only falcom games in the past couple years that looked really interesting, but might as well start with the localized one. Thanks!
That's just for straight RPGs, though. If you want to give their action RPGs a shot, the Ys series is incredible. Ys: Oath in Felghana is one of the best aRPGs of all time, and one of the best remakes of all time at the same time. Ys: Origin is also really, really good.
But yeah, there's a really intricate world in Trails with shitloads of worldbuilding, NPCs that say something new every time an event happens if you want to talk to them, and you are not even close to being as 'important' as the giant machinations of plot happening in the background. You know how you're the chosen one or whatever in most RPGs? Things much more important than you are constantly happening, and people far out of your league are stepping right over you. It's far more interesting as a world from that perspective.
Yeah, I love it to death. That said, for some people it's too slow - they gotta get their cool boss monsters and kill god and chosen one, and they want it quick. Thus, getting turned off when the game starts with your house and with you going to the market and the town DOESN'T get burned down afterwards.
Trails is great. Can't wait for SC to finally come out!
Vita only.
.
StereoVsn
Member
Trailer looks pretty good. As long as performance on Vita is OK I don't even mind the lack of PS4 or Steam options.
Aesthetics wise its just modern anime style, its hard to expect anything else now days when you say modern Tokyo setting. As long as the execution holds its all good. And Falcon has a good track record there.
Aesthetics wise its just modern anime style, its hard to expect anything else now days when you say modern Tokyo setting. As long as the execution holds its all good. And Falcon has a good track record there.
Anime inspired is not a synonym for pandering, most of their games had a very similar aesthetic to anime of the same genre (generally fantasy) in that time period
Long time fans with amazingly selective and myopic memories
Maintenance
Member
Damn, that sounds more interesting than the current Neptunias. Would buy.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I love Xanadu Next and I want more games in that style, but I'm fine with the current artstyle, idols, tripping girls, and whatever else if we still get the amazing gameplay I've come to expect from Falcom titles.... I also need amazing music, it's not a Falcom game without that.
Honestly, I think both styles are appealing to me, even if I do wish Falcom would go back to their roots at times, I also need Ys to stop being so wordy and go back to just being about amazing action again.
But yeah that aint changing anytime soon because EVERYTHING IS KISEKI!!!!!!!1111
Honestly, I think both styles are appealing to me, even if I do wish Falcom would go back to their roots at times, I also need Ys to stop being so wordy and go back to just being about amazing action again.
But yeah that aint changing anytime soon because EVERYTHING IS KISEKI!!!!!!!1111
This sounds RIGHT up my alley. No better way to develop a world than to firmly illustrate your size relative to its scale (and the more drastic this ratio the more memorable the world in my experience). I don't know why more games don't do this, it's particularly what I want from series like the Elder Scrolls. Thanks a lot for the input!
Problem is that Xanadu is a big name to longtime Falcom fans -- a name that comes with certain expectations. This is why we see Nintendo stick to old formulas. It's the reason for all the Donte hate. Such a huge departure from a loved franchise understandably makes people upset. You would be right if this a new IP.
Nah, the Lodoss fantasy stuff was super generic. I'ts more like there were different demographics back then. That said, Falcom has almost always designed their games with aesthetics that targeted the otaku audience.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I am indeed tired of seeing so much complaining about "modern Falcom."
Falcom hasn't changed, the game/anime industry has changed. Falcom has always made games that go along with the currently popular anime style, whether it be the high fantasy aesthetic of Ys, or the Slayers-esque style of Popful Mail.
Hell, here's some art from Legend of Xanadu II:
Remember the GIANT SHOULDERPADS of that era, too? Ys 4 took part as well:
I've already said that it sometimes feels like people trapped in the 80s and 90s want to hold back Falcom and keep them stuck in the past just because they can't get over how 'anime USED to be.'
Things have changed, it's a new era.
This fact obscures that it's been a while since we've seen stuff looking like Vantage Master or Dinosaur (or XN) in a while. Most of us in the know KNOW this and KNOW how the current homogenous climate holds sway over there and that affects the domestic feedback reguardless. We could do with less Heroes in Hoodies (that someone called too many recent characters that I found funny), especially Adol (Ys 7 outfit back when!?!)
And like Mauricio stated, the lean on verbose Kiseki Fried story is getting thick on the ground at Falcom land. The quality of that sheer drenching of dialogue is a requirement and may (and apparently has with recent Ys games, can't say myself) impede the redblooded redass beatdown fun (or god forbid, be badly written and end up like Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was).
Someone upthread was talking about a lack of nuance, so there ya go.
Trailer was pretty good. Definitely different from past Xanadu games, but I've been warming up to the game itself. As for the idol stuff, that's sort of how Japan culture is. I wouldn't say it's exactly just an otaku thing, it's just a common thing in Japan. Too much hate for that is going around here for just culture differences.
With that said, the style itself still looks generic to me (in that the designs kind of look plain). I feel that way about most Kiseki games anyway (and Celceta), so oh well. I still don't know much about the battle system. It's Falcom though, so at least the track record's good.
With that said, the style itself still looks generic to me (in that the designs kind of look plain). I feel that way about most Kiseki games anyway (and Celceta), so oh well. I still don't know much about the battle system. It's Falcom though, so at least the track record's good.