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[Tizoc]

In Double Ultra option, all Ultras do their base minimum damage.
Max damage of Ultras is an average of 450 points, 2/3s of 450= 300 points.

Two Ultras is a gamechanger. :|

Maybe it will maybe it won't.
So long as Ultra damage when using both is the minimum damage an Ultra does, it won't be a big issue, which is what I'm seeing them doing

If you look at this vid, notice how Rufus' combo does like 350-400 damage with the double ultra option.
While having 2 Ultras may be useful for giving the player the option of either
a) Comboing into Ultra for damage
b) Using the other Ultra for punish or situationals
In the end you can only use your Ultra once, and if you're mostly gonna use 1 Ultra in a certain match up, why not just stick to that 1 ultra since it has the possibility of doing a little extra damage.

Red Focus...I dunno it just seems unnecessary. It's like all of this is just to have more damage options or have super moves occur frequently in matches.

 

[joffocakes]

I'm hoping they would just make it hard + hard. Make select taunt if they have to, who gives a fuck if you can't taunt on an arcade machine.

I do; I main Dan so taunts are pretty important to me. Select is in too awkward a position. I'm going to guess MP+MK+HP for Red Focus.

Well, Dictator is fucked so far because his scissor knees, his main pressure tool will get red parried easily. Now imagine against Zangief, Guy and all the cast with grappling Ultras.

Yeah, corner scissors will be more of a risk plus his armour breaker being psycho crusher means an incorrect guess could put him in the corner instead. There's always throws.

I think that Ultra 2 example being Rufus is a little misleading since the anti-air version of his Ultra 2 already did pretty meagre damage compared to the grounded one. I guess they wanted to demonstrate a scenario playing out differently that you could punish with either ultra but I would have liked to see the raw ultra damage compared to Wultra scaled damge directly. Too early to have that kinda thing locked down I guess.

I do think Gief will still be better off using Ultra 2 only in a lot of matchups, since the extra damage he gets from Ultra 2, and the threat of it, seems more valuable than having the extra option of Ultra 1 on the ground. He still has his SPDs for that grounded damage and Ultra 2 with its proper damage will cause enough fear to keep opponents grounded. Plus he can take advanatage of his post-knockdown pressure after an SPD to the point where an SPD might put him in a better position than going for a weakened Wultra 1.

I think Guile and Chun might struggle against red focus since fireball > walkup pokes and boom > backfist aren't going to shut it down and Guile doesn't exactly have easy access to his flash kick armour breaker to use it on reaction. I'm really interested in seeing the results of the location tests.

 

[Shadow Ranger]

At least the Red Focus still breaks. Would be devestated if it didn't. Neutralise my chicken wing spam!

 

[CountBlack]

It's cool to see what this system is looking like now

And then what it'll eventually turn out too by release.

Kinda hype for some change.. But it better not affect my love of SF4

 

[Mokubba]

Gen.

Just, Gen.

This

Xian must be happy.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Welp, this will be interesting to say the least.

I'm down for crazy.

 

[Juicebox_FGC]

Red Focus = Down + Focus. (down-left and down-right will not trigger it)

That's my guess. I doubt they'd do a QCF, HCF, or charge motion for it.

 

[mekes]

I just don't like the starting system mechanics of SF4 to begin with, I find the whole thing a let down. Tweaks to the existing system wont do much to change my mind on a new version of the SF4 series.

It would have taken an overhaul.

 

[stn]

This new red focus is just another HERP DERP way of getting in and maintaining pressure. 2 ultras? Good luck ever punishing Akuma's teleport, using any close-range attacks against 'Gief, jumping at Hakan, doing anything but a safe-jump on Cammy, etc...

Does this add to the "fun"? Sure. Balance and engine stability? Hell no, this game just became more complicated for the worse.

 

[Tizoc]

This new red focus is just another HERP DERP way of getting in and maintaining pressure. 2 ultras? Good luck ever punishing Akuma's teleport, using any close-range attacks against 'Gief, jumping at Hakan, doing anything but a safe-jump on Cammy, etc...

Does this add to the "fun"? Sure. Balance and engine stability? Hell no, this game just became more complicated for the worse.

At this point it's merely theory, we won't ever know its viability for balance etc. until many months of play.

I personally think there's no need for these additions, nice idea but nothing necessary.

 

[sixteen-bit]

re: Red Focus

Dhalsim is fucked, right?

 

[The Smoking Bun]

So which version is the complete version of SF IV that has ALL the content?

 

[Venfayth]

SF4's main problem is that offensive guesses (augmented by option selects) are far too powerful. Certain situations are near impossible to escape for certain characters. An example is Sakura's meaty LK tatsu against Juri in the corner. Juri must block this situation, because there is no reason for Sakura to not LK tatsu. EX Parry is armor broken, EX Pinwheel whiffs (Sakura passes through to the other side), Ultra 1 is stuffed, Ultra 2 whiffs (Sakura passes through to the other side), jumping is stuffed, normals are counter hit, back dash is punishable. There are always creative solutions (Juri can FORWARD DASH underneath the Tatsu) but the onus is on the defensive player to have prepared solutions for these fairly common situations.

Another example of this is Akuma vs Viper. Latif explained this earlier and I thought it was really indicative of the games problems at a high level. Viper throws Akuma into the corner and does a crossup, and option selects a super jump backwards. What this means is that if his crossup hits or is blocked, he'll get to continue his offense, and if Akuma teleports, Viper will follow him with a superjump. In Latif's ft5 showmatch vs Infiltration, Infiltration prepared specifically for this situation. Infiltration backdashed, which causes the crossup to whiff and triggers Latif's superjump optionselect. Then Infiltration DPs to punish viper in the air. This is an incredibly complex series of events from a game mechanics perspective, and this level of preparedness is NECESSARY to escape certain situations.

TLDR of first section: Offensive techniques are easy and cover too many options. Option selects are a problem. The game has too many situations where there are no easy defensive options. This makes offensive much more valuable, especially when you have a character that can go into more offense after you score a knockdown.

Red focus is great. It helps escape vortexes and gives players a much-needed defensive option. It needs to be cheap, 1 bar is perfect. This will help players escape some of the options that are common today, and a great thing about focus is that it doesn't trigger optionselects because the game still registers a hit. I want more defensive options added to the game (or for them to remove option selects altogether, including crouch tech). Duo ultra kinda helps with that, but not really.

Duo ultra really depends on the character. Grapplers will probably use both unless the damage reduction is huge (50% or more). Fei and Cammy will probably be using duo. Don't see much need outside of those characters to use both, since damage is already not very high on many ultras that you can combo into. If you're using a duo ultra with something you can combo into, and the damage is being reduced even further, you're losing a ton of damage for having an "option". My character (Juri) will be sticking with one or the other. Although, it should also be mentioned that even if damage is reduced heavily for certain ultras, many of those still give setups afterwards, which are just as useful.

Removing unblockables is also great, depending on how they've done it. I liked the adjustable wakeup timing idea, which gives more power to the defender. It shouldn't really need to be said that unblockables are bad for the game. They only add to the situations where the defender has no way to escape.

The changes Capcom have shown so far are positive ones, and it will take a while to understand how they truly impact the game. Personally what I want is for the game to radiate towards footsie and midrange game playstyle, which has always been more interesting to me than up close guessing games and setup fighting.

 

[Tizoc]

Duo ultra really depends on the character. Grapplers will probably use both unless the damage reduction is huge (50% or more). Fei and Cammy will probably be using duo. Don't see much need outside of those characters to use both, since damage is already not very high on many ultras that you can combo into. If you're using a duo ultra with something you can combo into, and the damage is being reduced even further, you're losing a ton of damage for having an "option". My character (Juri) will be sticking with one or the other. Although, it should also be mentioned that even if damage is reduced heavily for certain ultras, many of those still give setups afterwards, which are just as useful.

Duo Ultra will have both Ultras do their minimum damage, this is when the Ultra gauge is half full in regular SSF4.

 

[Kimosabae]

SF4's main problem is that offensive guesses (augmented by option selects) are far too powerful. Certain situations are near impossible to escape for certain characters. An example is Sakura's meaty LK tatsu against Juri in the corner. Juri must block this situation, because there is no reason for Sakura to not LK tatsu. EX Parry is armor broken, EX Pinwheel whiffs (Sakura passes through to the other side), Ultra 1 is stuffed, Ultra 2 whiffs (Sakura passes through to the other side), jumping is stuffed, normals are counter hit, back dash is punishable. There are always creative solutions (Juri can FORWARD DASH underneath the Tatsu) but the onus is on the defensive player to have prepared solutions for these fairly common situations.

Another example of this is Akuma vs Viper. Latif explained this earlier and I thought it was really indicative of the games problems at a high level. Viper throws Akuma into the corner and does a crossup, and option selects a super jump backwards. What this means is that if his crossup hits or is blocked, he'll get to continue his offense, and if Akuma teleports, Viper will follow him with a superjump. In Latif's ft5 showmatch vs Infiltration, Infiltration prepared specifically for this situation. Infiltration backdashed, which causes the crossup to whiff and triggers Latif's superjump optionselect. Then Infiltration DPs to punish viper in the air. This is an incredibly complex series of events from a game mechanics perspective, and this level of preparedness is NECESSARY to escape certain situations.

TLDR of first section: Offensive techniques are easy and cover too many options. Option selects are a problem. The game has too many situations where there are no easy defensive options. This makes offensive much more valuable, especially when you have a character that can go into more offense after you score a knockdown.

Couldn't disagree more. You don't punish players bases for becoming good at your game, because if your game is worth giving the time of day, it's an eventuality. Every fighting game in existence has its tactics that can be considered "cheap" or "overbearing" or "overtly complex" and every FG in the future will have them. It all boils down to how long the game sticks around and what you're willing to tolerate as a player. That's part of what makes you a strong/weak player. The strength in letting a game breath is that those interpretations of tactics start to boil away as the competitive scene matures, both as players and people, as they get used to those types of tactics.

So what if there's situations that heavily favor an offensive sequence? You move your priority to avoiding those circumstances in the matchup. Despite that Viper OS, I'd still consider that matchup in Akuma's favor because he's better in the neutral. You're expressing a dislike of the fact that a FG developed over time to become something more "complex"? Really? Both the Juri/Sakura and Akuma/Viper descriptions are merely a description of the function of players becoming good at the game given enough time.

People should consider simply moving on to something else instead of complaining online about the tactics they don't like regarding a game (not dismissing your stance as whining. I'm not attacking you, here). This is why we have stuff like invincible DPs, Ultra combos (with invincible startups), low block stun etc. etc. in the first place.

People complained endlessly about SF4's lack of offensive pressure during the first few years of its release. People finally start engineering ways to maintain pressure via becoming good at the game, and now people have problems with that. Now, we have a Red Focus attack. This is the dark side of the Information Age.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

wont judge til i play

 

[ElFly]

Don't think two ultras changes too much; people who choose both will have to gain a life lead and slowly charge the ultra bar to make it worth anything, giving up a good comeback weapon, or a good punishing tool. Zangief and Hakan are probably the ones who will benefit the most, since they already hit super hard. Then again, I feel that sky protecting zangief is still the better choice.

Red focus attack is a game changer, tho. Being able to block multiple hits and counterattack with relative ease is going to be big. I expect a big decrease of offensive strategies. Again, strong characters without multi hitting moves benefit.

 

[Venfayth]

So what if there's situations that heavily favor an offensive sequence? You move your priority to avoiding those circumstances in the matchup. Despite that Viper OS, I'd still consider that matchup in Akuma's favor. You're expressing a dislike of the fact that a FG developed over time to become something more "complex"? Really?

I have no problem with a game being complex mechanically, as long as there are adequate defensive options to escape the need to have an equally complex solution to a situation.

I want more effective and simple defensive options, provided those defensive options have counters as well.

 

[BadWolf]

Find this apprehension towards all Ultras being available kind of odd when most other games do it (KOF gives you access to all supers, ex supers and neomaxes that do full damage, not to mention HD).

The new features will be hit or miss in USF4 but I'm just glad they are dealing with unblockables. Recent tournaments were often a pain to watch due to these.

 

[Bizazedo]

I have no problem with a game being complex mechanically, as long as there are adequate defensive options to escape the need to have an equally complex solution to a situation.

I want more effective and simple defensive options, provided those defensive options have counters as well.

Anything that lessens option selects is a good thing imo. Make people commit to something risky.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I'm more disappointed that the New Supers rumor was false. Some characters have useless supers.

 

[Venfayth]

Anything that lessens option selects is a good thing imo. Make people commit to something risky.

I want in-your-face play to be risky, and footsies/mid-range play to be solid. If you're going to make a read, commit to it. I don't like the mentality behind option selects existing from a game design standpoint, especially not in a competitive game.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I have no idea what to think besides it might lead to some creative/broken stuff. And that sounds exciting.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

re: Red Focus

Dhalsim is fucked, right?

I can't imagine him taking ryu's lunch money anymore.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

I want in-your-face play to be risky, and footsies/mid-range play to be solid. If you're going to make a read, commit to it. I don't like the mentality behind option selects existing from a game design standpoint, especially not in a competitive game.

Neither does combofiend. Though os's are a byproduct of fighting games inputs in general.

 

[sixteen-bit]

So which version is the complete version of SF IV that has ALL the content?

The retail disc version of USFIV will have all the DLC costumes in it at no additional cost and be the most up-to-date version upon release.

 

[shouamabane]

SSFIVAE2012 will be hard to follow up. I'd love to see a SFIV collection with all versions and DLC for PS4.

 

[Booter]

The retail disc version of USFIV will have all the DLC costumes in it at no additional cost and be the most up-to-date version upon release.

that's great for the community. kinda harsh for people who bought them before and upgrades though..

 

[Hitokage]

that's great for the community. kinda harsh for people who bought them before and upgrades though..

Disc is $40. Upgrade is $15. It balances out.

 

[vg260]

that's great for the community. kinda harsh for people who bought them before and upgrades though..

They've had years to enjoy the costumes, though, so no big loss.

 

[Piccoro]

Two ultras will certainly allow for people to discover many new combos!

It will feel like a whole new game, and that's cool.

 

[Hitokage]

Two ultras will certainly allow for people to discover many new combos!

You just get access to both commands. You still burn all your meter using either.

 

[Space Runaway]

Damn this is interesting. I dunno how well this is gonna work out but I sure as hell wanna give it a go.

 

[Lingxor]

They should really try to streamline the ultra animations... Some of the start up animations are pretty grating at this point.

I'd love for it to be like SSF2T.

 

[OldAsUrSock]

Also unblockables removed.

Must buy

 

[ArjanN]

The 2 Ultras thing seems like it would be balanced pretty well by the lower damage. Easier to land either one but doesn't hurt as much.

IMO it's impossible to say how the the red focus will effect the balance without more information.

 

[Czigga]

I keep trying to read more about it but can't find the actual info of how the red focus is activated? Anyone know? Is it like fireball motion + MP+MK or something? HP+HK and LP+LK already have stuff so not sure how it would work.

 

[vulva]

What if Red Focus became HP+HK and taunt was moved to Select, making Slinking lead to the risk of taunting while pulling off a link

 

[sixteen-bit]

What if Red Focus became HP+HK and taunt was moved to Select, making Slinking lead to the risk of taunting while pulling off a link

Then everyone can do the Marn Special

 

[Arde5643]

I like the idea of two ultras - more of ultras being utility than damage it seems.

And it definitely adds more into the meta-game long term. Although hopefully they at least improve the useless ultras in order to make it more viable (ie. Guile's U1 being the most flagrant one)

 

[-tetsuo-]

Guy's crouching MK

 

[LakeEarth]

I can see two ultras helping Rose a bit, U2 orbs already don't do that much damage so that's no big loss, but if your opponent fucks up (and you don't have super), you can do some damage with U1. On the other hand, I don't see this helping Sakura at all, as her ultra 1's only advantage was more damage in exchange for lowered usefulness.

This is all using 2012 ultra properties as a guideline, they might change. I don't see Honda really needing two ultras since they both suck, but they might tweak them to where they are worth it.

 

[Jiraiza]

Guy's crouching MK

Yeah, seriously. They either need to have more FA breaking moves or half the characters are going to get fucked by characters with good FA. Guy had it okay because he had target combos and crouching MK but with red focus, his only FA breaking move is Hozanto and that's definitely not going to be fast enough.

 

[koryuken]

Akuma's vortex might be trash now that I think about it.

Demon flip palm is the only armor break, so that limits most of his guessing game from demonflip setups.

Demonflip throw will also toss the opponent out of focus.

 

[sleepykyo]

Damn at red focus being real. Everyone is going to brush up on their focus breakers and sucks for those had to rely on quick multi-hits to beat focus.

Two ultras will certainly allow for people to discover many new combos!

It will feel like a whole new game, and that's cool.

It'll be interesting to see how this changes the meta-game. eg. El Fuerte and Akuma's ultras see a lot of use for different scenarios. Now Akuma gets both his (slightly less) damage Ultra and his anti-punish ultra (canceling teleport recovery into U2). On the plus side, at least is an option instead of mandatory, so players that feel like their character really only has 1 viable ultra can take solace in the damage versus versatility trade off.

 

[Hitokage]

Demonflip throw will also toss the opponent out of focus.

With palm not hitting overhead, wouldn't crouch beat both options?

 

[Deckard Cain]

where are we supposed to talk about it then? Srk? Lol

I wouldnt do it on forums period, much less a membership forum which chooses its members at random.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I suspect red focus (and my guess for its input is mp+lk or lp+mk, a la Tekken throws, since you never want to accidentally trigger moves that cost meter, and those combinations aren't really used for anything else right now) isn't going to be seen a lot in higher level play, due to its inherent risk, what with white damage not scaling, the focus costing two bars, and you still being vulnerable to armor breaks and throws. Like red parry, it will probably only be done during game-changing moments but otherwise reserved as a seldom-used option. Best case, it causes people to back off a bit because they know it's available, even if you never use it--just like red parry.

Regarding the point where SF4 favors offense, I think pretty much every fighting game favors offense.

 

[koryuken]

With palm not hitting overhead, wouldn't crouch beat both options?

I was just directly addressing the question about red focus, and those two options beat red focus. In general he can still whiff palm, divekick cross ups, etc. My point was that red focus doesn't do anything major to his vortex game when he has numerous options to beat it and you still have to guess.

PS. If he lands on the otherside while you are red focusing, you are going to catch a beatdown or thrown into another vortex.

 

[Hitokage]

Per the question about red focus, those two options beat red focus. In general he can still whiff palm, divekick cross ups, etc. My point was that red focus doesn't do anything to his vortex game.

What I was getting at is crouch covering what red focus does not, simplifying the mixup to a 50/50.