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[TGO]

Sounds almost the same and also explains why Nadine makes no sense, she is just there to be there.
Not sure which would have been better.

 

[Fezan]

I don't really have a problem with people aggregating juicy Uncharted 4 details from my book, but the problem here is that stuff is being misinterpreted. A lot of these ideas (like the ballroom dancing mechanic) weren't necessarily going to be part of the original version of Uncharted 4 -- Naughty Dog's designers were just prototyping them and trying to see what would work.

One of the reasons for the directorial shift, according to people I spoke with, was that there were too many prototypes floating around and nobody was making strong decisions about what to cut and what to implement. That's why Naughty Dog made the change in the first place -- because the game wasn't in great shape. It's impossible to say that "Amy Hennig's Uncharted 4" would have looked like this, because we have no idea what would have made the final cut.

If you want the real, complete story, please do check out Blood, Sweat, and Pixels: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062651234/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Good job man. will buy book next month hopefully. Did you get any idea that this was the only reason for firing amy hemming or was its her decision to leave after these incident

 

[CrichtonKicks]

We always knew Nadine was a new character. It came up during the controversy on having Laura Bailey playing different color skin. They said they had already hired her for another character in the original version and it was easier to keep her in the cast (paraphrasing).

 

[BroBot]

No Nadine? Amy's version of the game was a mistake. I need my Nadine Ross! NEED! We may have not gotten Lost Legacy if this version of the game was chosen.

 

[Anung]

Nathan never felt like he was into the adventure like the previous titles. It was a guilt adventure that ran even more sour whenever he interacted with his brother. Then he's lying to his wife to go on an adventure he resents the whole time because he wasn't supposed to be there.

I don't think you understood the story. Nathan's brother returning was the excuse he needed to go on the adventure he was craving after months of trying to lead a normal adventureless life and kinda resenting Elena for it.

The whole ending is them both reaching an understanding that while she can't expect him to not be an adventurer as that's who he is Nathan also can't be so obsessed that it's life threateningly dangerous. So they compromise which leads to the ending we get of them being a family of treasure hunters.

 

[Memento]

No Hennig's version was vastly superior. Long lost brother coming for revenge that ultimately sees the value in family (his family) and changes his ways is infinitely better than self serving brother shows up to tear Nates life apart to ultimately better himself and save his life but play it off like Nate lives for this shit.

Sorry but anyone that liked Sam as a character says a lot about that person, and its not someone I would want to be around.

None of the Uncharted games have been E rated games so I don't know what you're on about. The first 3 entries were still fun while having those kinds of themes but never took them as seriously as 4 did. It was so melodramatic it was sad.

We wouldnt have Nate and Elena plot point in Amy's version, which means it would be objctively inferior since their relationship development was the best part of the game and basically does what you are proposing with Amy's Sam but with Drake himself.

 

[NastyBook]

- No Nadine

Watching certain people get completely butt blasted over not being able to fuck with Nadine Ross gave me life, so I'm glad changes were made.

 

[HeelPower]

Just because Sam isn't a villain is "less predictable" doesn't make it any better.

It doesn't make any sense why Sam would go to Nate and anger Rafe who cared the most to pull him out of his trouble ,and who has 100x more resources than Nate ever did.

There's a big hole when it comes to Rafe and Sam in the final game. Sam's betrayal doesn't make sense and his stupid little lie about the prison is a waste.It was pointless.

 

[FeD.nL]

More Elena would have been great and deserved for the character, especially combined with the fact that you go without a gun for a huge chunk of the game. Would've loved to play that version.

 

[kpaadet]

Nathan never felt like he was into the adventure like the previous titles. It was a guilt adventure that ran even more sour whenever he interacted with his brother. Then he's lying to his wife to go on an adventure he resents the whole time because he wasn't supposed to be there.

That's not what happen at all. Nate was bored of his new life and lived in the past remembering his part adventures. His brother showing up was an excuse for him to get back in it. I mean did you miss the whole with with Elena telling Nate to stop lying to himself about not loving being back hunting for treasure?

 

[black070]

That sounds surprisingly terrible, I'm glad we got the game we got.

 

[EGM1966]

Explains early promotion material which obviously points to Sam as an antagonist or someone who starts as an antagonist.

TBH while I think the U4 delivered was better than this sounds - more down to gameplay vs plot as the ideas here don't sound good to me at all in that I doubt they'd have executed well - it's clear it's the bastard child of various drafts plotwise as it's still uneven in plot details.

I think it would have been better to not have Sam be his brother really, it's a big stretch Nathan doesn't even mention him once to Elena or that Sam never comes up despite Nate, Sully, etc knowing about him as well.

I like the idea of them trying to have an antagonist become an ally, that's not attempted much in games and would have been interesting but purely with Sam as an old partner thought long dead before Nate even met Elena.

 

[Reebot]

Or to stick with the pirate thing, the story could have been about Elena finding an ancient gold medallion. When she jumps in the water, it summons a bunch of treasure hunters who desperately need the gold. Nate has a pistol with one shot saved for their leader. Also they're immortal.

 

[Elandyll]

Mmmh.

Hard to tell without having 2 full games to compare (which we will never get), but from the sound of it I think I largely prefer the game we actually got.

 

[Callibretto]

Just because Sam isn't a villain is "less predictable" doesn't make it any better.

It doesn't make any sense why Sam would go to Nate and anger Rafe who cared the most to pull him out of his trouble ,and who has 100x more resources than Nate ever did.

There's a big hole when it comes to Rafe and Sam in the final game. Sam's betrayal doesn't make sense and his stupid little lie about the prison is a waste.It was pointless.

Sam go to Nate and risk angering rafe because the treasure they're after is what their mother has been searching all her life. And he want to find it together with Nate. It's originally their project until they bring in Rafe. Nate even comment about it during the prison chapter asking whether they really have to let Rafe in.

 

[Memento]

What Jason's book points out that the OP doesn't seem to reference is that there was a strong feeling in ND that the elements being worked on weren't fun and coming together well. All of these individual mechanics (dance minigame, manual rope targeting, new climbing system) were potentially interesting in isolation but didn't necessarily gel well together.

Also noted in the book- Druckmann and Straley did not want to direct the game. After they were forced on the project their original intention was to transition UC4 to a new team of directors after a few months so that they could return to the prototypes they were working on before. But production demands pretty much forced them to stay on through the entire project.

It seems like the direction was all over the place and not working at all. Neil and Bruce came then to help give things a proper direction to the project, Amy didnt like their interventions, Amy left, Neil and Bruce had to direct the whole thing with an already established premise from somebody else and ship the game in Holiday 2015 (eventually slipping to early 2016).

I think they did an amazing job considering the situation.

I love Amy and respect her work, after all she created this amazing series. But its obvious her vision and direction wasnt coming along nicely for UC4 if Sony and Naughty Dog had to bring new people to the team to make the project gets out of stagnancy.

 

[theWB27]

I don't think you understood the story. Nathan's brother returning was the excuse he needed to go on the adventure he was craving after months of trying to lead a normal adventureless life and kinda resenting Elena for it.

The whole ending is them both reaching an understanding that while she can't expect him to not be an adventurer as that's who he is Nathan also can't be so obsessed that it's life threateningly dangerous. So they compromise which leads to the ending we get of them being a family of treasure hunters.

That's not what happen at all. Nate was bored of his new life and lived in the past remembering his part adventures. His brother showing up was an excuse for him to get back in it. I mean did you miss the whole with with Elena telling Nate to stop lying to himself about not loving being back hunting for treasure?

I understood it just fine. Nathan Drake was held back from being gung ho dangerous, which is part of what makes him a great character, because he wasn't supposed to be there.

The scene where he's figuring out the pirate dinner and you can see it, because Elena sees it, Drake coming into his own. Then boom he's ripped out of it because he is not supposed to be doing it. The whole mood of the game captures that. Whenever things ramp up the next scene brings it right back down to square one.

While he needed an excuse to go he still was never able to let loose. Which is why the compromise at the end would've been a better starting point to the story. It would've allowed Drake not to have that resentment filled adventure that we went on instead of the previous 3 titles.

 

[Korigama]

Explains early promotion material which obviously points to Sam as an antagonist or someone who starts as an antagonist.

TBH while I think the U4 delivered was better than this sounds - more down to gameplay vs plot as the ideas here don't sound good to me at all in that I doubt they'd have executed well - it's clear it's the bastard child of various drafts plotwise as it's still uneven in plot details.

I think it would have been better to not have Sam be his brother really, it's a big stretch Nathan doesn't even mention him once to Elena or that Sam never comes up despite Nate, Sully, etc knowing about him as well.

I like the idea of them trying to have an antagonist become an ally, that's not attempted much in games and would have been interesting but purely with Sam as an old partner thought long dead before Nate even met Elena.

That happens all the time (it's not something I've personally observed as a rarity, anyway).

 

[Japanmanx3]

Highly prefer what we got to what is started in OP. DDR mini game?? *Bleh*

 

[Jobbs]

This sounds even worse than what the game ended up being. I think things worked out as well as they could have.

 

[Callibretto]

Explains early promotion material which obviously points to Sam as an antagonist or someone who starts as an antagonist.

TBH while I think the U4 delivered was better than this sounds - more down to gameplay vs plot as the ideas here don't sound good to me at all in that I doubt they'd have executed well - it's clear it's the bastard child of various drafts plotwise as it's still uneven in plot details.

I think it would have been better to not have Sam be his brother really, it's a big stretch Nathan doesn't even mention him once to Elena or that Sam never comes up despite Nate, Sully, etc knowing about him as well.

I like the idea of them trying to have an antagonist become an ally, that's not attempted much in games and would have been interesting but purely with Sam as an old partner thought long dead before Nate even met Elena.

Nathan never talking about his brother is plausible really. He had bad experience that result to his brother dead (at least he thought Sam was dead) so he didn't want to talk about it. Sully knows it so he never bring up Sam also.

The only glaring part is Marlowe. If she knew about Sam, she would have brought it up in U3 to hurt Nate.

 

[Strangelove77]

Sounds like they kept the best aspects of it.

 

[Eria]

Thank goodness we got the version we did.

.

Uncharted 4 is the best game from 2016 for some reason in the end. Even in GAF.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

It seems like the direction was all over the place and not working at all. Neil and Bruce came then to help give things a proper direction to the project, Amy didnt like their interventions, Amy left, Neil and Bruce had to direct the whole thing with an already established premise from somebody else and ship the game in Holiday 2015 (eventually slipping to early 2016).

Based on Jason's book, I don't believe that is true. He presented Druckmann/Straley as only becoming involved once Hennig had left.

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

So basically this dude is just reading out large sections of Jason's book to the camera? Not cool

A bit like how many threads on Gaf C&P the majority or entirety of articles.

It sucks in general

 

[Kuriboi2k6]

She wasnt really that interesting in 4 mostly for being underrused. In lost legacy she was good though.

That's exactly my point. I cared more about her than whoever the main villain whose name I forgot. Mainly because I don't care

 

[Kinyou]

The book also explain some of the reason why they ditch some of Hennig version of uncharted. They had prototype for a more deeper climbing mechanic and you can even have prototype where you can aim where to throw your grappling hook. Ultimately Straley decided that those deeper mechanic while interesting in isolation, didn't really work when you're in dynamic combat situation. During the frantic combat, you want stuff like climbing and swinging to be as simple as possible.

The same with dance sequence. It's basically a mini game that only used once for that scene only, it's out of place from the rest of the game and Straley hate that kind of thing, he once mentioned it before in one of ND documentary when he's talking about Jak 2.

In the end, I'm happy with yhe Uncharted 4 that we got

Hm, I think I would have really liked a more complex grappling hook mechanic. In a game that bothers to give the Jeep winch real physics or cares about such small details like a gunstraps it felt a bit out of place to me how magically accurate and fast the ropes snap into position

 

[ECC]

It seems like the direction was all over the place and not working at all. Neil and Bruce came then to help give things a proper direction to the project, Amy didnt like their interventions, Amy left, Neil and Bruce had to direct the whole thing with an already established premise from somebody else and ship the game in Holiday 2015 (eventually slipping to early 2016).

I think they did an amazing job considering the situation.

I love Amy and respect her work, after all she created this amazing series. But its obvious her vision and direction wasnt coming along nicely for UC4 if Sony and Naughty Dog had to bring new people to the team to make the project gets out of stagnancy.

I am not sure that's a fair assessment. Jasons book pretty clearly communicate that ND did not have the resources to run two projects in parallel and that due to deadlines TLOU had priority to ensure shipping.

As a result of this Amy was left with proportionally too few resources. Saying that other people would come in and give proper direction is not really fair in my mind when UC4 was starved for resources initially due to the existence of the project that these same people had headed.

In the end, we know roughly how it worked out. Amy left ND. For all the people here speculating about the quality or not of "Amys UC4" I think that is misguided. UC4 in the phase where Amy was involved was starved for resources - and we never got to see what the end of her vision would have turned in to. If there is one piece of information that Jasons book seems to try and hammer in, then it is that these projects tend to come together incredibly close to the finish line, so judging the potential end point of a project based on a some comments about what was at the prototype stage seems not really all that fair.

 

[sn00zer]

Sounds almost the same and also explains why Nadine makes no sense, she is just there to be there.
Not sure which would have been better.

I think Nadine takes a weird amount of knowledge of how contracted work functions in order to understand her character. Shes pretty damn excellent in the role as a third party hired gun, but i can understand how many people would not immediately get why she acts the way she does

 

[Memento]

Based on Jason's book, I don't believe that is true. He presented Druckmann/Straley as only becoming involved once Hennig had left.

That is weird. The whole narrative we had in the internet was false then?

 

[nelo_inc]

No Nadine would been wonderfull, in Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy..

 

[TGO]

No Nadine? Amy's version of the game was a mistake. I need my Nadine Ross! NEED! We may have not gotten Lost Legacy if this version of the game was chosen.

You mean Chloe could have had a better partner, after completing LL with the impression from Gaffers that her story develops and her character becomes better I was baffled and confused still why she was even in the game, her only connection was

Spoiler

Shoreline

She's a shallow last minute character that was an underdeveloped question mark in U4 that they strangely kept putting in the spot light but there was nothing to shine, even Rafe was more likeable and even Aiden Pearce had more depth.
I thought LL would change that, but she was basically the same, her being in LL obviously shows ND wanted to promote her but she just isn't up-to-par with the series villains let alone rest of the cast.

 

[sn00zer]

That is weird. The whole narrative we had in the internet was false then?

Who would have thought. Seriously read the internets interpretation of any news story from an industry you actually work in to see how poor an understanding the internet has of stuff like this

 

[OrlanisWorks]

I felt her involvement in the series, although a key to the creation, was weaker and this is what made the 4th my favorite. It had stronger character development.

It seems best that she moved on to make a, hopefully, great Star Wars game.

 

[Ricky_R]

While we never got to experience Amy's execution, going by what I read, I'm glad Druckmann took over.

Also, Druckmann and co really outdid themselves considering all the stuff that was already established that they couldn't scratch off due to lack of time.

 

[formasymphonic]

And it's funny you say "Sam was your brother all along" is a horrible twist with no purpose but that "Hey I had a brother that i've never mentioned all theses years and my last name isn't actually Drake" is much better right?

To be fair, "Drake" not being Nate's real name was alluded to quite heavily in Uncharted 3 iirc. I believe the main villain even openly mocks him regarding it as well.


Also I just want to say one more time that everyone should get Blood Sweat & Pixels because its great. Rather than give this guy the click, help support the original reporting.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

It's a long video it's 20 minutes.



- No gun combat for half the game, vehicle based (Unkarted was a reality)
-Huge emphasis on melee combat
-No mechanic you shoot at walls and use that to climb
- New boost mechanic
- Dance Dance mini game
- Elena would have been with Drake for the first half of the game on his adventure
- No Nadine



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwHJojouxI

https://www.psu.com/news/34094/uncharted-4-development-troubled-history-surfaces

Sounds amazing!!

 

[Paquete_PT]

So, errr, best timeline confirmed? I trust Henning and her vision, but looking at those cold bulletpoints, I think I like what we got.

 

[Memento]

Hm, I think I would have really liked a more complex grappling hook mechanic. In a game that bothers to give the Jeep winch real physics or cares about such small details like a gunstraps it felt a bit out of place to me how magically accurate and fast the ropes snap into position

It is a good idea in the paper but it wouldnt work at all with the combat flow. Imagine having to aim to every grappling hook point in the middle of combat scenarios. It would be really detrimental to the overall gameplay.

I am not sure that's a fair assessment. Jasons book pretty clearly communicate that ND did not have the resources to run two projects in parallel and that due to deadlines TLOU had priority to ensure shipping.

As a result of this Amy was left with proportionally too few resources. Saying that other people would come in and give proper direction is not really fair in my mind when UC4 was starved for resources initially due to the existence of the project that these same people had headed.

In the end, we know roughly how it worked out. Amy left ND. For all the people here speculating about the quality or not of "Amys UC4" I think that is misguided. UC4 in the phase where Amy was involved was starved for resources - and we never got to see what the end of her vision would have turned in to. If there is one piece of information that Jasons book seems to try and hammer in, then it is that these projects tend to come together incredibly close to the finish line, so judging the potential end point of a project based on a some comments about what was at the prototype stage seems not really all that fair.

They were starving on resources for UC4 because of TLOU? How does that make sense though? TLOU shipped in June 2013.

Who would have thought. Seriously read the internets interpretation of any news story from an industry you actually work in to see how poor an understanding the internet has of stuff like this

Kind of scary how some stuff become absolute truth without any evidence.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

That is weird. The whole narrative we had in the internet was false then?

AFAIK that whole narrative was just based on an IGN article that ND denied. ND said that Hennig's departure was a decision made by leadership and had nothing to do with Straley/Druckmann. In the book Jason says that while Straley/Druckmann didn't seem too keen on what was being done with UC4 they were entirely focused on pre-production and prototypes on their next game and had no desire to jump into full production mode. They were forced into it after Hennig's firing and, even then, had initial plans just to get the game on the right track and then bail to another project.

After reading about the hell they went through going into crunch back to back from the end of TLoU to UC4 (Straley rented a second apartment close to ND's offices toward the end of UC4 development just to be able to work more), I totally believe that they their takeover of UC4 was not something they wanted to do.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Or to stick with the pirate thing, the story could have been about Elena finding an ancient gold medallion. When she jumps in the water, it summons a bunch of treasure hunters who desperately need the gold. Nate has a pistol with one shot saved for their leader. Also they're immortal.

They should hire you to write the next pirates film

 

[8bit]

I think the only issue I would have had would be with the dance minigame.



Also, I'm going to buy your book, PSF.

 

[dead souls]

Doesn't sound great, but the actual Uncharted 4 we got was a catastrophe, so maybe this franchise should have just died on the PS3.

 

[Memento]

Doesn't sound great, but the actual Uncharted 4 we got was a catastrophe, so maybe this franchise should have just died on the PS3.

Yeah, a catastrophe winner of the top GOTY picks in 2016, including this very forum...

 

[The Dear Leader]

I'd like to see it, as I like almost all of her work but at the same time on paper the story we got seems better to me, it's hard to say without seeing how it plays out in an actual game setting.

 

[Anung]

I understood it just fine. Nathan Drake was held back from being gung ho dangerous, which is part of what makes him a great character, because he wasn't supposed to be there.

The scene where he's figuring out the pirate dinner and you can see it, because Elena sees it, Drake coming into his own. Then boom he's ripped out of it because he is not supposed to be doing it. The whole mood of the game captures that. Whenever things ramp up the next scene brings it right back down to square one.

While he needed an excuse to go he still was never able to let loose. Which is why the compromise at the end would've been a better starting point to the story. It would've allowed Drake not to have that resentment filled adventure that we went on instead of the previous 3 titles.

Huh? The whole story up to that point is the usual light adventure back and forth jokes you expect from the series even with the implied Hector death threat hanging over Sam. It only gets solemn when Elena gets there and Nathan has to confront the fact he lied to his wife and himself about who he is. Half the story isn't him being forced into it. He was using his brother's return and the threat of Hector as justification for doing what he wanted to do along.

 

[ECC]

It is a good idea in the paper but it wouldnt work at all with the combat flow. Imagine having to aim to every grappling hook point in the middle of combat scenarios. It would be really detrimental to the overall gameplay.



They were starving on resources for UC4 because of TLOU? How does that make sense though? TLOU shipped in June 2013.



Kind of scary how some stuff become absolute truth without any evidence.

Yes - TLOU shipped in 2013, I believe that the team or very significant parts of it stayed in place until some point in 2014 to deal with the expansion (Left behind). During this same time frame, UC4 was in pre / early production. This is the point in time where you try to put all the structure in place such that you can scale production. Furthermore, this is also where you prototype concepts, come up with rough storylines (that get filed down/into place during production). So - when you starve a project of resources at the early stages you erode the fundament to build into scalable production. It can have many interesting outcomes depending on project structure etc. but one of the more common ones is that things don't really come together nicely, that different parts feel disjointed and that decisions keep getting pushed until a complete picture is in place - giving the feeling of little project progress. Another consequence can be a schedule delay - while this may in many cases be better than what I just described it is not always an option. In this case, I believe that ND set out dealing with both productions in the spirit that they would have what would amount to resources (the right people, not money) fitting two simultaneous productions - and really, they did not manage to get that.

 

[conman]

I like the produced version of the story much better. Hennig's version would have been far more conventional action-movie fare. For me, Uncharted 4 rights the cart after the total mess of Uncharted 3, but Hennig's version would have just made a bigger mess out of an already big mess. Very grateful we got the version we got. UC4 has a tightly wound story with even more refined mechanics, and it avoids the obnoxious mechanical and narrative fluff of UC3.

 

[Lakershead22]

I've got to be honest. The game we got is many times better than what was originally planned by the sound of things.

 

[theWB27]

Huh? The whole story up to that point is the usual light adventure back and forth jokes you expect from the series even with the implied Hector death threat hanging over Sam. It only gets solemn when Elena gets there and Nathan has to confront the fact he lied to his wife and himself about who he is. Half the story isn't him being forced into it. He was using his brother's return and the threat of Hector as justification for doing what he wanted to do along.

I don't think we're really arguing different points.