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[Doube D]

yeah, but the closeups of the cars are renders and probably so are all sequences involving them.
There's not one tiny poly edge in sight, hyper high res reflections, no pixellization at all...i don't buy it, those models are subpatched and those reflections are too accurate.

Its called the playstation 3. Get used to perfection

 

[eso76]

Its called the playstation 3. Get used to perfection

HAH
Wonderful piece of hardware but it's not a console from 2012.

 

[Spike]

Its called the playstation 3. Get used to perfection

You know, shit comments like this make it hard to maintain interest in the PS3.

Let's see actual fucking gameplay before we start jizzing our pants.

 

[AndreasNystrom]

Im pretty sure the PS3 does the GT4 photomode in realtime, and makes it look even better. And with higher polycars in GT5 this is what you get.

Im pretty sure it will look even better when released, and we will think this video looked like bleeh then.

 

[Willy Wanka]

I find sim car racers like Gran Turismo & Forza boring but I like hot graphics so this pleases me

 

[mashoutposse]

The final game will probably look as good or better than the GT4 CG intro.

 

[bud]

HAH
Wonderful piece of hardware but it's not a console from 2012.

Go watch the mgs4 trailer.

 

[trmas]

God, that looks good. And I have zero doubts the final game will look that good. All the GT games have looked fantastic.

 

[jett]

The final game will probably look as good or better than the GT4 CG intro.

It sure as hell should. The GT4 intro uses in-game assets from the game.

 

[dynamitejim]

Pure graphics whore-ism is going to end up pulling me into series I've played and didn't care for or never had any interest in from the beginning.

 

[Gek54]

The final game will probably look as good or better than the GT4 CG intro.

Hopefully much better as the intro just adds extra AA to the actuall game.

 

[Beowvlf]

Between about 0:34 and 0:38 is the first true glimpse of GT5 IMO, and it looks absolutely stunning. Picture that with 20+ other cars on the track + damage modeling and enhanced physics!

PGRwhat?

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Today is a fantastic day.

 

[ziran]

[tear]this looks beau...ti...ful...[/tear]

 

[Twix]

Playstation 3 ..what can I say, a hardware from hell.. WOW

 

[Gattsu25]

PGRwhat?

PGR3

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Thats the sound of my bank account who is about to get Al Capowned after all of these announcements.

Are there any places doing PS3 pre-orders yet?

 

[bud]

PGR3

What?

 

[sonycowboy]

You know, shit comments like this make it hard to maintain interest in the PS3.

Let's see actual fucking gameplay before we start jizzing our pants.

So, other people's excitement for a system causes you to lose interest? I can understand not going overboard with many who are having delusions of grandeur, but why should it affect your own interest level?

 

[Willy Wanka]

Between about 0:34 and 0:38 is the first true glimpse of GT5 IMO, and it looks absolutely stunning. Picture that with 20+ other cars on the track + damage modeling and enhanced physics!

PGRwhat?

Yeah please dont start this bullshit *insert big rolleyes smiley here*

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

You know, shit comments like this make it hard to maintain interest in the PS3.

Let's see actual fucking gameplay before we start jizzing our pants.

Too late

Plus its GT5 so you can pretty much expect it to play almost exactly like GT4, which played like 3, and so on.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Plus its GT5 so you can pretty much expect it to play almost exactly like GT4, which played like 3, and so on.

You didn't actually play GT4 did you?

 

[Willy Wanka]

Too late

Plus its GT5 so you can pretty much expect it to play almost exactly like GT4, which played like 3, and so on.

I'm pretty sure Polyphony will be aiming for damage, better AI and online play this time around. They pretty much said as much already.

 

[FortNinety]

Its called the playstation 3. Get used to perfection

Everytime I see a glimpse of the futre of gaming, I am reminded there will still be annoying fanboys. I guess its unavoidable.

 

[eso76]

Go watch the mgs4 trailer.

i have..like 1249 times now.
And it's the most amazing thing i've ever seen you can tell it's realtime and it shows the hardware's "limitations" at times (you can see the polys, textures are not perfect etc.).
Now, don't get me wrong, MGS4 is much more spectacular than this to me, but while that one looks like it can be done in realtime, this is not do-able, not with that kind of geometry and such hi res environment mapping.
Not in-game at least. Tech demo maybe.
I do some 3d modeling, and unless that footage is hiding lots of 'edges' i can tell u it would take at least something between 200 and 300k polys to model cars like those.
Not happening, yet.

 

[Gek54]

Its not a whole lot better than PGR3's enviro mapping and this is PD we are talking about. GT4 already looks damn near photoexact on a crappy little PS2.

 

[SonnyBoy]

i have..like 1249 times now.
And it's the most amazing thing i've ever seen you can tell it's realtime and it shows the hardware's "limitations" at times (you can see the polys, textures are not perfect etc.).
Now, don't get me wrong, MGS4 is much more spectacular than this to me, but while that one looks like it can be done in realtime, this is not do-able, not with that kind of geometry and such hi res environment mapping.
Not in-game at least. Tech demo maybe.
I do some 3d modeling, and unless that footage is hiding lots of 'edges' i can tell u it would take at least something between 200 and 300k polys to model cars like those.
Not happening, yet.

Hardware limitations? What exactly do you mean? Final dev kits haven't even been sent out, the MGS4 vid was made on hardware that is far from the power that the final build will provide. Maybe I just read your post wrong but neither the 360 or PS3 are showing their limitations.

The limitations we are seeing are those of the developers. This generation will definately show a contrast between the gifted and the lame. (money too)

I think that this could possibly be a representation of what the new GT will look like. Poly and Kojima haven't failed us graphically ever, why the sudden doubt. < not directly speaking of u

 

[eso76]

Hardware limitations? What exactly do you mean?

I said "limitations". in "" because i don't actually mean ps3's limitations, rather, real time graphics limitation, or today's technology's limitations.
Imho, that kind of detail up close is one generation beyond the next.
I might be wrong, but this is not a matter of making cars look photoexact with lightning and clever use of textures, in which polyphony are the best at: this is ridiculously high resolution environment mapping and huge amounts of geometry. Huge.

See, this is a ferrari i modeled some time ago (pain in the ass, really, i'll never do it again)

the model itself is using some 40.000 poly's, but is rendered with a 5 subpatch value (ie. 40.000 x 5).
Looks good from here, but if you dare place the camera as close as the trailer does on that mazda, you'll start seeing edges and poly's all over; you'd be able to count them.
Unless the footage is hiding imprefections and edges, that mazda uses more (a lot more) than 200.000 polys.
I'd say 300k at least.
Doable for a tech demo, but in game ? with at least 6 300k polys cars on screen ? i don't think that's possible yet.

 

[Insertia]

blah blah blah.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Mazda and Evo are what the cars in GT5 will look like. It would be a waste of Polyphony's time modeling those if they weren't.



Besides, GT4 had what...one CGI car?

 

[eso76]

blah blah blah.

Wow...

 

[Gek54]

Even in that poor quality video you can see the straight polygon edges in the seams of the cars. The close up of the tail light of the RX shows off hard edges. Im sure PD is also not wasting half the polygon count of the cars for the interior.

 

[eso76]

Even in that poor quality video you can see the straight polygon edges in the seams of the cars. The close up of the tail light of the RX shows off hard edges.

in that case then i take it back. I have watched the trailer on the crappy monitor i have at work and wasn't able to see any hard edge AT ALL. I'll look again.

 

[Mr_Furious]

Looks good from here, but if you dare place the camera as close as the trailer does on that mazda, you'll start seeing edges and poly's all over; you'd be able to count them.
Unless the footage is hiding imprefections and edges, that mazda uses more (a lot more) than 200.000 polys.
I'd say 300k at least.
Doable for a tech demo, but in game ? with at least 6 300k polys cars on screen ? i don't think that's possible yet.

It's call "smoothing groups"

BTW, to all of the doubters in this thread: when was the last time Polyphony "faked" a movie? I can't seem to recall.

 

[Gek54]

 

[mashoutposse]

It sure as hell should. The GT4 intro uses in-game assets from the game.

Hopefully much better as the intro just adds extra AA to the actuall game.

I'm talking about just the beginning with the Ford GT and pole w/ pit crew I think that's a realistic expectation (if not still an underestimation).

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

MY GOD, PS3 is a beast, this stuff is on alpha kits and it's blowing away the other beta kit stuff :lol

If you are going to say something like this, at least put it in the proper context. Alpha kits for the PS3 have SLI'd 6800 Ultras. 2 of those = RSX. In theory, you get 90% of the power with that config. The ATI Xenos has only been present in Xbox 360 developmental kits since the beta kits. 360 will ramp up soon.

To this game, it looks wonderful

 

[gofreak]

If you are going to say something like this, at least put it in the proper context. Alpha kits for the PS3 have SLI'd 6800 Ultras. 2 of those = RSX. In theory, you get 90% of the power with that config.

I don't think Sony ever classed the system as being as powerful as 2 6800s in SLI, or did so without qualification (?) They said more powerful than 2 6800 Ultras. An SLI config is not the equivalent of 2x the power.

Now, getting back to context, depending on what you're doing in your game, you may well see an even greater improvement than 2x 6800 Ultra - certain things in the G70 architecture improved a lot more than other things, so if your game is heavily dependant on those things, you'll see even more benefit. A concrete example is UE3, which Mark Rein claims is running twice as fast on the underclocked RSX (G70) in the PS3 kits as it was before in the dual SLI kits.

And of course, that's already not taking into account the clockspeed increases and the massively increased ability you'll have to feed the GPU with the final system.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I don't think Sony ever classed the system as being as powerful as 2 6800s in SLI, or did so without qualification (?) They said more powerful than 2 6800 Ultras. An SLI config is not the equivalent of 2x the power.

Now, getting back to context, depending on what you're doing in your game, you may well see an even greater improvement than 2x 6800 Ultra - certain things in the G70 architecture improved a lot more than other things, so if your game is heavily dependant on those things, you'll see even more benefit. A concrete example is UE3, which Mark Rein claims is running twice as fast on the underclocked RSX (G70) in the PS3 kits as it was before in the dual SLI kits.

And of course, that's already not taking into account the clockspeed increases and the massively increased ability you'll have to feed the GPU with the final system.

I already covered that. Nvidia said 2 6800Ultras at E3. With SLI, you get, at most, 90% power. I stated that as well. As far as UE3, the RSX has UE3 specific code built into it.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Alpha kits for the PS3 have SLI'd 6800 Ultras. 2 of those = RSX. In theory, you get 90% of the power with that config.

You ask for context (and you're right to a degree, the MS' respective beta gpu is farther behind Sony's respective beta gpu) but then you pull this metric out of your ass. 90% of what exactly? The current kit has a 7800gtx, which is 30% slower than RSX and the RSX itself is still largely an unknown quantity. Not to mention Cell is still underclocked @ 2.4ghz, and one of the featured aspects of the final kit, the "Redwood" bus interface is a mere 5% of the bandwith in it's crippled PCI-e form. The final tool will see a lot of improvement.

 

[Izzy]

'I already covered that. Nvidia said 2 6800Ultras at E3'

That's G70 - RSX is considerably faster

 

[Hajaz]

g70 isnt 6800
g70 is 7800, and RSX is definitely not "considerably faster" then a g70

anyway, i'd rather see them add realistic physics instead of the arcadish handling it has now. gt simply isnt worthy of the name "simulator"
oh, and proper netcode

*gets back to playing rfactor with DFP*

 

[gofreak]

I already covered that. Nvidia said 2 6800Ultras at E3. With SLI, you get, at most, 90% power. I stated that as well. As far as UE3, the RSX has UE3 specific code built into it.

Sorry, I misread you! My bad.

g70 isnt 6800
g70 is 7800, and RSX is definitely not "considerably faster" then a g70

~30% higher clock isn't considerable?

 

[Hajaz]

u got an official source on that?

 

[gofreak]

u got an official source on that?

G70/7800 is 430Mhz, RSX 550Mhz, aka approx 30% faster clockspeed.

 

[Zaptruder]

Hajaz can't read, can't count, but he can cry.

 

[Pimpwerx]

G70/7800 is 430Mhz, RSX 550Mhz, aka approx 30% faster clockspeed.

OWNDIZZLE!!! :lol

Seriously, that noise is just plain noise. I will defend PD to the fucking ends of the earth. They make my drug of choice. Anyone doubting this trailer is gonna get fuckowned when GT5 shits on this trailer. Remember GT2000? It mixed GT2 assets with GT3 assets. And every new screenshot was better than the last. Remember the E3 trailer? All GT4 assets, which is why the camera stayed panned out. Now, it appears they have some car models complete, and so we get closeups, and then a bunch of zoomed shots again. Notice which cars were featured up close, and which ones weren't. There's no way they could complete anywhere near that catalog from the trailer in this time. It was taking them a long time already for the PS2 games, so I figure the modeling in GT5 is gonna be a horrendous bitch. I just hope another poster is right in assuming that PD has high-fidelity source models already on hand from GT4 development. It should ease the pain.

This is a demo of the engine. Showing off some of the features we'll see, like 18+ cars (that's what I counted in one scene) and incredible lighting and reflections...again. I still doubt there'll be damage, but I never cared about it in the first place. If keeping damage out keeps the catalog stacked, and the game released this century, then so be it. You can buy the second-best game ever, with damage. I will have GT. GT3 sold me a PS2. GT5 will sell me a PS3. BTW, this game is gonna make every other car game its bitch when it comes out. Polyphony Digital, if nothing else, are the kings of racing game graphics. They pulled off small miracles on the PS2. And it's all 60fps. I am giddy at the thought of what they will do with the PS3. It will blow our damn minds. Oh yeah...hope they give us that Tourist Trophy action in GT5 as well. I want to take a PS3-rendered bike around a PS3-rendered Nordschlief. PEACE.

 

[ypo]

Damn, GT4 photomode in real time at 60 fps on the PS3!!!

 

[Insertia]

Notice which cars were featured up close, and which ones weren't. There's no way they could complete anywhere near that catalog from the trailer in this time. It was taking them a long time already for the PS2 games, so I figure the modeling in GT5 is gonna be a horrendous bitch. I just hope another poster is right in assuming that PD has high-fidelity source models already on hand from GT4 development. It should ease the pain.

I doubt GT5 will have the same amount of cars as GT4. If all the cars are the same quality as the ones in that trailer there'll be 150-175 at most. If there is damage modeling and a cockpit view for all of the cars, I'm fine with that number.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

i really, really doubt the mazda and the evo are what car models will look like in gt5.

All credit to One over on B3D for the translation...

"This page for the new PS3 PR shots has a message from Kazunori Yamauchi about the new trailer. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050917/ps3.htm"

This video "Vision Gran Turismo" is a concept movie as a progress report for the GT series making headway to PS3. The Lanser Evolution and the RX-7 in Tokyo International Forum in the first scene are full-spec high-detailed models created for PS3.

The following scene with cars running is a kind of "hybrid" movie in which the modeling data used in GT4 are decorated with PS3 rendering. It's an experiment with the theme of how far lightweight data for PS2 can reach in terms of image quality with rich rendering.

Yowza.

edit- By "rich rendering" I assume he means the HDR lighting? That seemed to be the biggest difference compared to the first "Vision" trailer. All the models and tracks were still PS2 assets afaict.

 

[Gek54]

I seriously wouldnt mind at all if they kept the same car models and just went apeshit on the tracks. Oh and a few polys for that interior view which the NAILED!