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[Pimpwerx]

All credit to One over on B3D for the translation...

"This page for the new PS3 PR shots has a message from Kazunori Yamauchi about the new trailer. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050917/ps3.htm"



Yowza.

edit- By "rich rendering" I assume he means the HDR lighting? That seemed to be the biggest difference compared to the first "Vision" trailer. All the models and tracks were still PS2 assets afaict.

Kaz is my boy. He'll lead us to the promised land. :lol Seriously, the PD modellers are pimps. They just know what a realistic rendered car should look like. I expect this game to look like the intro to GT3. That Castrol Supra looks like a good place to start. PEACE.

 

[Gek54]

That supra wasnt rendered. It was real.

 

[Pimpwerx]

That supra wasnt rendered. It was real.

Fuck...I think you're right. They opened the garage door and lowered it off the lift, right? Shit, I haven't played it in so long, I completely forgot. :lol My bad. I guess asking for reality as a baseline spec would be just a little too much...right? PEACE.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

I seriously wouldnt mind at all if they kept the same car models and just went apeshit on the tracks. Oh and a few polys for that interior view which the NAILED!

I think they're going to go apeshit on everything. Look at those first two car models, my god. Yamauchi's crew is going to have the PS3 singing a rare tune.

 

[SolidSnakex]

In the long run maybe Forza did light a fire under Polyphony and they're just going to go all out in every way. They're modeling interiors now which is something no one really thought they'd even bother with because of how many cars are in the series.

 

[Pimpwerx]

In the long run maybe Forza did light a fire under Polyphony and they're just going to go all out in every way. They're modeling interiors now which is something no one really thought they'd even bother with because of how many cars are in the series.

I always thought they'd do it eventually. Remember those pics of the car shoots? They always took a bunch of pics of the interiors everytime. I remember some poster on the old board also mentioning seeing them do that in person. PEACE.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I always thought they'd do it eventually.

I wasn't sure because its a pretty big thing to do considering Polyphony is a company that goes into every detail. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do. The small sequence with the camera in the car on the snowy street looked really smooth even though its a low quality video.

 

[mckmas8808]

GT5 WILL be the best looking racing game to date when it's released. But this isnt different from the past so....

 

[Panajev2001a]

I said "limitations". in "" because i don't actually mean ps3's limitations, rather, real time graphics limitation, or today's technology's limitations.
Imho, that kind of detail up close is one generation beyond the next.
I might be wrong, but this is not a matter of making cars look photoexact with lightning and clever use of textures, in which polyphony are the best at: this is ridiculously high resolution environment mapping and huge amounts of geometry. Huge.

See, this is a ferrari i modeled some time ago (pain in the ass, really, i'll never do it again)

the model itself is using some 40.000 poly's, but is rendered with a 5 subpatch value (ie. 40.000 x 5).
Looks good from here, but if you dare place the camera as close as the trailer does on that mazda, you'll start seeing edges and poly's all over; you'd be able to count them.
Unless the footage is hiding imprefections and edges, that mazda uses more (a lot more) than 200.000 polys.
I'd say 300k at least.
Doable for a tech demo, but in game ? with at least 6 300k polys cars on screen ? i don't think that's possible yet.

First thing to be remembered is how their 4-5K polygons models used in GT3 and GT4 stood up well to PGR2 car models which used far more polygons per car: they surely have good modellers able to efficiently minimize the polygons spent on cars while maintaining a great visual output.

Also, 300,000 vertices/car * 6 cars * 60 fps = 108 MVertices/s which I do not think it is far off for either Xbox 360 or PLAYSTATION 3 vertex pushing power-wise.

 

[SolidSnakex]

All credit to One over on B3D for the translation...

"This page for the new PS3 PR shots has a message from Kazunori Yamauchi about the new trailer. http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050917/ps3.htm"



Yowza.

edit- By "rich rendering" I assume he means the HDR lighting? That seemed to be the biggest difference compared to the first "Vision" trailer. All the models and tracks were still PS2 assets afaict.

Didn't notice this post. What's more impressive you've also got to take into account that there's going to be 20+ cars on track at that detail with full damage modeling running at 60fps.

 

[FightyF]

First thing to be remembered is how their 4-5K polygons models used in GT3 and GT4 stood up well to PGR2 car models which used far more polygons per car: they surely have good modellers able to efficiently minimize the polygons spent on cars while maintaining a great visual output.

Also, 300,000 vertices/car * 6 cars * 60 fps = 108 MVertices/s which I do not think it is far off for either Xbox 360 or PLAYSTATION 3 vertex pushing power-wise.

That's because they textured it well. Baked on the lighting onto the texture as well.

Oh, and eso76...You can have literally billions of polys really, because of bump and normal mapping.

I've been playing with the Far Cry engine, and you can take a super high poly model and use PolyBump (tm) to have it converted to a lower poly model, with bump/normal maps done for it. Visually, it looks like a super high poly model when it isn't. Of course, you can see the geometry (ie. sharp cornered elbows and such), but if a developer/artist does things right, they can afford to put all the polys in the right spots (ie. edges) while using normal maps in other areas. For example, use a normal map for the license plate. So instead of making it out of 20,000 to get all the letters/numbers modelled in 3D you have a normal map, because you can afford to, no one is going to look at it from the extreme right angle. I also think this could be done to the rear lights, details in terms of the gaps between the door and the frame of the car, etc. I realize that it's harder to get away with this when dealing with cars...but you'll always find areas where you can use it (just thought of tires. The embossed lettering on the side doesn't need to be modelled, but with normal mapping will look like it is.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

If those first two car models in the trailer are making heavy use of normal mapping then its the most convincing use of the technique I think Ive seen. As good as a lot of normal mapping is its not quite there yet as far as tricking the eye IMO. After awhile I start to notice the lower poly skeleton underneath and the illusion loses some of its effect (especially in motion for some reason).

Perhaps the indirect footage is hiding some flaws but these GT5 models on the other hand look like they have a CG level of sophistication. I can see why Eso was skeptical, but Yamauchi says they're legit.

 

[FightyF]

If those first two car models in the trailer are making heavy use of normal mapping then its the most convincing use of the technique I think Ive seen. As good as a lot of normal mapping is its not quite there yet as far as tricking the eye IMO. After awhile I start to notice the lower poly skeleton underneath and the illusion loses some of its effect (especially in motion for some reason).

Perhaps the indirect footage is hiding some flaws but these GT5 models on the other hand look like they have a CG level of sophistication. I can see why Eso was skeptical, but Yamauchi says they're legit.

When it comes to cars you won't see "heavy" use of normal mapping, because they are quite round and organic. I think there are areas where it can benefit cars and get the poly count down. Say, on the treads of tires, where if you modelled them would take a lot of polys...a LOT. Just like how in GT1-4 they use textures to draw the lines between car parts to represent the gaps, they could use normal mapping. But since posting my last post I watched the movie and it looks like it's fully modelled.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Higher quality and longer VGT trailer

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=7699&type=mov

They really are in a league of their own when it comes to car modeling and lighting.

 

[teiresias]

I hate racing games but . . . damn!!!!

 

[Johnas]

The whole thing was great, but the pit area near the end...holy.

This will surely be another GT game I buy and don't finish. :lol

 

[jett]

Higher quality and longer VGT trailer

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=7699&type=mov

They really are in a league of their own when it comes to car modeling and lighting.

Jesuschrist. Too bad I probably won't be playing this, unless they make significant changes to car handling and game progression.

 

[Gek54]

Jesuschrist. Too bad I probably won't be playing this, unless they make significant changes to car handling and game progression.

What would you change about the car handling?

 

[ourumov]

Dunno why but I am not impressed at all with it. You all know how much I love the GT series but I expected a lot more from PD. Sure looks better than PGR3, RR6 and most of the racing games of the next gen...but PD has always wowed me so much that now...I just can't say I am surprised. I guess that's because the old tracks from GT4...or not...dunno.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's not going to have the same impact of other GT games until they get everything done and not just the car models. They've got the lighting and 2 cars ready, but the tracks haven't been remade yet. Once everything is in it'll be same GT in terms of blowing people away graphically.

 

[ourumov]

Yep...I guess that's the thing. Anyways, this time we don't have any kind of reference to what expect.

GT 3 was present in GT2...But GT5 ? Perhaps the GT Concept intro ?

 

[SolidSnakex]

The only reference point for GT5's graphics is the Ford GT model in GT4's intro. Going by the Mazda and the RX7, they're going to be able to get that with GT5's in game models.

 

[jett]

What would you change about the car handling?

I don't know, I'm not a game designer, but what is in GT just isn't fun for me anymore. I just don't get the pleasure I get out of RRV when turning/drifting around corners, for example. I'm NOT saying that GT should handle like RRV, btw.

Strangely enough, I do like how F355 Challenge handles. Don't know what is it about it.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Remember, Kaz has 50GB of disc space to play with

 

[-SD-]

Stuff about the Vision GT trailer: http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=408198&postcount=5

Some quotes:

This video is meant to be a progress report for the next GT game. The Lancer and the RX-7 in the opening scenes are the first full-spec high-detailed models...

Unfortunately, the rest of the video is just a high-definition version of GT4 which showcases some of the features we'll get in the full game (things like HDR lighting, a cockpit view, fully-animated pit crews, larger pack of cars, etc). So basically, the EVO & RX-7 are the only bits of Gran Turismo 5 in the video--those are the car models we can expect in the final game.

I'd of course suggest to take all that with a grain of salt...

 

[DarienA]

Stuff about the Vision GT trailer: http://forums.gametrailers.com/showpost.php?p=408198&postcount=5

Some quotes:

I'd of course suggest to take all that with a grain of salt...

Already known old news.

 

[-SD-]

Ah, sorry... I just checked this thread more thoroughly.

Note to self: Don't post on forums while in flu

 

[mashoutposse]

The RX7 and Evo models are what I was expecting from next generation. PGR3, while a somewhat healthy improvement over this generation's best, is disappointing to me (especially at 30fps).

That pit crew scene is ridiculous if realtime.

 

[dark10x]

Yeah, those two models are truly incredible. Detailed to the point that you lose sight of the elements they are constructed from...

 

[-SD-]

(Already violating my no-posting-while-in-flu rule here )

That pit crew scene is ridiculous if realtime.

I think it is realtime. Look at this, for example. There's a low res shadow edge visible. There would be no such anomalies if that was pre-rendered.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

It was hard to deal with the widespread complaints of development difficulty at the start of this gen, so I am very happy devs seems to be getting great results from alpha hardware already. RSX + massive bandwidth will make it all the better. I'm giddy at the thought of what GTA4 will bring.

 

[teiresias]

I find it depressing that the damn pit-crew in the Vision GT video has better animation than most X360 launch games . . . *runs*!!!!!

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I'm a Sony fan and it was hard to deal with the widespread complaints of development difficulty at the start of this gen, so I am very happy devs seems to be getting great results from alpha hardware already. RSX + massive bandwidth will make it all the better. I'm giddy at the thought of what GTA4 will bring.

Well as I am also giddy like a school girl with what devs can achieve with the hardware already, I'm still preparing myself for not too much visually with GTA4, it's more about the interaction anyway.

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Well as I am also giddy like a school girl with what devs can achieve with the hardware already, I'm still preparing myself for not too much visually with GTA4, it's more about the interaction anyway.

haha, I don't expect GTA4 to look like MGS4 or GT5, I'm just a MASSIVE GTA fanboy and think R* is definately in the upper echelon of quality devs, so I'm excited to see what they will do with the PS3 hardware.

 

[artful_dodger]

nipples am hard

 

[Kleegamefan]

I find it depressing that the damn pit-crew in the Vision GT video has better animation than most X360 launch games . . . *runs*!!!!!

:lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

I find it depressing that the damn pit-crew in the Vision GT video has better animation than most X360 launch games . . . *runs*!!!!!

They're also using animation routines from GT4. Note the "Gran Turismo 4" logo on their uniform. The difference is the lighting they put on them. That videos still mainly GT4 and Polyphony has it looking that good with a few little tricks.

 

[JMPovoa]

You really find that video impressive? It's mainly GT4 with more cars. The only thing that really makes it great is the pit crew that's realisticaly animated. And about the cars showing at the beginning, sure it looks great, but any next gen console could pull that off as shown.

 

[SolidSnakex]

You really find that video impressive? It's mainly GT4 with more cars. The only thing that really makes it great is the pit crew that's realisticaly animated. And about the cars showing at the beginning, sure it looks great, but any next gen console could pull that off as shown.

That's nice, but this is being done right now. Call me when those other racer show up looking that realistic not just from modeling but lighting.

 

[JMPovoa]

That's nice, but this is being done right now. Call me when those other racer show up looking that realistic not just from modeling but lighting.

Compare something that we don't even know what it is (we don't know if that's in game graphics or just a showcase of what PD thinks they can pull off with GT5) to something we already know how it'll look (PGR3 for example)?

 

[SolidSnakex]

If you look on previous pages its been confirmed by Kaz that these are the GT5 models. That's why its impressive. You aren't going to see 6 cars of that level, you're gonig to see 20+ cars of that level on a track, with damage modeling and at 60fps. I don't know how many next gen racers will attempt that at that level of detail.

 

[JMPovoa]

And when is this thing getting out? (this is rethorical BTW)
I believe in all honesty that they can pull this off. Why shouldn't they? Afterall they have very powerfull hardware on their hands. But it's still too far from getting into ours.

 

[Raistlin]

Around 1:05 ... with the pan-up a few seconds later ...


... now that looks hot!

 

[Pimpwerx]

Compare something that we don't even know what it is (we don't know if that's in game graphics or just a showcase of what PD thinks they can pull off with GT5) to something we already know how it'll look (PGR3 for example)?

This is realtime, and nothing more than a demo, like GT2000. GT2000 was the precursor to GT3:A that used a lot of GT2 assets with the addition of PS2-spec features. PD produced a regular set of updated screens on the engine, mixxing in new car models from time to time, and showcasing stuff like the reflections and DOF effects. When GT3 was officially unveiled, it spanked GT2000 in a million different ways.

This is clearly using GT4 assets mixed with some of the physics, lighting, environment-mapping and filter effects we'll see in GT5. There are only two PS3-class models in the video already, and you can tell since they are on track together or alone, but never with the GT4 car models. The GT4 stuff looks to be from the photo mode as well, and running with large packs. I think they're just showing us that there'll be large fields of ~20 cars (finally), plus a plethora of incredible graphics effects. And unlike the E3 trailer, they're finally giving us a look at two samples of next-gen car models they have. The car models take an eternity. I expect the next update to include a Skyline and a WRX. I'd hope to see the JGTC-spec MR-S as well, if only b/c that's my fucking car. They already showed the GT4 version in the trailer, so I can rest assured knowing it'll make the final cut. This is only a taste, and you know PD is gonna deliver the goods and then some. With the most powerful hardware, all other racers will be fighting for second place. Kaz Yamauchi is god. PEACE.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Yes....modeling those cars must take AGES.....not surprising there are only 2 PS3 cars in the trailer...

I wonder how many polys are in the Lancer Evo and RX/7 3D models :O

 

[Gek54]

A little off topic but I just saw the trailer to Memoirs of a Geisha and it had this exact scene in it, minus the mini of course. Has anyone been here or know where it is?