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[Insane Metal]

I'm all for a $499 console as long as it's actually decently powered.

 

[grumpyGamer]

It does not really matter the initial price, they will release a mid gen update like now, they are starting to adhere to a different business model, which does not involve 500 usd consoles, but one 400 usd +another 400 usd later on

 

[alken]

That's how much an Xbox One X will cost in 2020 if we're lucky.

I think MS will play the price game on next gen.
As i said in the other thread I hope/think they can make a reference hardware and let PC OEMs make different versions of next gen xbox.
that price is the sweet point for families.
then Dell or Lenovo can make a version more pricey with more ram and better gpu or larger ssd.
500$ is not a price for outsell Sony or Nintendo, so they must go lower price if they want to compete, but letting OEMs putting on market different versions with more power with that price could create a link with PC gamers too.
In the other thread a lot of comments were like:
"for the price XB1 is better preformance that same price pc".
Problem is that if you don't give a similar freedom on specs to PC gamers they never jump on a console world.
An hybrid solution ,let's call it "PCX", could be the bridge between the two worlds.
that's why :


->launch:
ps5 399
Switch2 299
Xbox2 349

->midgen:
ps5pro 399
switch2 VR/AR 349
Xbox2 PCX hybrid 499

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

How could a console that’s been around and being volume produced for two years not be cheaper than a brand new PS5 that just started production? The One X will be cheaper than the PS5, and if MS is willing to take a slight hit to ensure that more people stay in their ecosystem, there’s no reason why the One X can’t be priced to be substantially cheaper than the PS5.

MS wants as few gamers that value graphics switching from One X to PS5 as possible. Because it’s precisely those gamers that will pay a premium for superior graphics that also buy a large bulk of the games. Casuals on the other hand just buy the yearly Madden or FIFa or COD and nothing else all year.

Announcing a substantially more powerful device than the PS5 for a premium to launch an year after the PS5 while slashing the One X’s price is a great way to do this.

You were asked to source your claim that X is handily outselling Pro.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

It does not really matter the initial price, they will release a mid gen update like now, they are starting to adhere to a different business model, which does not involve 500 usd consoles, but one 400 usd +another 400 usd later on

Ok but I just hope you and everyone understand that at 400 bucks you’re not going to get a huge generational leap over the current X in two years.

 

[rokkerkory]

I am loving the power in the X for the $500 price point. Well made quality wise as well with great features including 4k uhd.

When next-gen comes, I am okay with $500 but no higher. Then current uber models like Pro and X can become the entry consoles at $250-299.

 

[D7im]

I think 499 is not bad price if it’s powerful machine +14Tflops

 

[michaelius]

This gen proven that 400$ is sweet spot for mass adoption so I don't see Sony changing winning strategy.

2013 -> 400$ - 1,8TF machine
2016 -> 400$ - 4,2TF machine
2019 (or later depending on next process node availability) -> 400$ - 8,5-9 TF machine

That way any 1080p optimised PS4 game could run at full 4K on PS5 making it perfect for all multiplatform developers.

You were asked to source your claim that X is handily outselling Pro.

He probably didn't notice that Microsoft said it was best selling premium console in America

 

[alken]

This gen proven that 400$ is sweet spot for mass adoption so I don't see Sony changing winning strategy.

2013 -> 400$ - 1,8TF machine
2016 -> 400$ - 4,2TF machine
2019 (or later depending on next process node availability) -> 400$ - 8,5-9 TF machine

That way any 1080p optimised PS4 game could run at full 4K on PS5 making it perfect for all multiplatform developers.




He probably didn't notice that Microsoft said it was best selling premium console in America

I agree with you.
I see Sony setting a trend on this.
could you see the same price point also for the midgen upgrade for ps5?
And you see MS playing the price game going cheaper or going again on power race and being pricey?

 

[Chaostar]

Yes people will always want to pay less, and depending on how Microsoft treat the 1X , things could be very interesting indeed, imagine a foward compatible 1X @$299 and an X2 @499.

That would be terrible for Xb One 2, being tied down to last gen processors would restrict any new innovations in gameplay that could arise from a better CPU. If Sony released a PS5 that was a traditional new generation they could corner the market for specific gameplay features that are only possible on new gen CPUs.

So basically the PS4 Pro vs the Xbox One X? The One X is handiliy outselling the Pro and is winning hearts and minds and Digital Foundry comparisons left and right.

Receipts needed.

 

[bitbydeath]

2019 (or later depending on next process node availability) -> 400$ - 8,5-9 TF machine

Vega GPU is already at 13TF.
Navi GPU should pack even more.

 

[MoogleMan]

$399 is the console sweet spot. More than that and I'd need a hell of a launch lineup to invest.

 

[michaelius]

I agree with you.
I see Sony setting a trend on this.
could you see the same price point also for the midgen upgrade for ps5?
And you see MS playing the price game going cheaper or going again on power race and being pricey?

I'm expecting mid gen refresh every time new process node is available for cheap mass production mostly - since it allows making nice slim sku of previous console and new premium model giving nice upgrade.
So whatever happens after ps5 will depend on how fast TSMC will work.

I wonder how many SKUs will Sony keep on market then ? Super cheap ps4 <200$, 250-300$ PS4pro and 400$ ps5 ? Then ps5pro for 400$ and everything else dropping one bracket with ps4pro becoming basic 1080p sku and ps4 phase out ?

I've got no idea what Microsoft will do they are throwing darts and trying to see what sticks at the moment

Vega GPU is already at 13TF.
Navi GPU should pack even more.

Vega is 13TF at 300Watts and almost 600 mm^2 of silicon - so it would need another Scorpio like machine.

 

[bitbydeath]

Vega is 13TF at 300Watts and almost 600 mm^2 of silicon - so it would need another Scorpio like machine.

Yep, Navi is said to be console friendly though which is likely why that will be in the PS5.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Yep, Navi is said to be console friendly though which is likely why that will be in the PS5.

I ain't falling for this just yet. I'm sure Vega was supposed to have much better perf/watt and Raja Koduri even claiming it was better than expected? AMD also told MS/Sony they were getting a CPU much better than Jaguar.

I seriously cannot believe we'll get more than 12TF even in a late 2020 PS5 console size APU/box.

 

[pawel86ck]

Game budgets skyrocket in recent years, and the thing is, it's not easy to make AAA games today. Below you can see guys how many great games we could play on ps3/xbox360 generation

Alan Wake
Assassins Creed Series
AVP 3Batman series
Battlefield series
Beyond Two Souls
Bioshock series
Borderlands series
Brothers In Arms
Burnout
C&C RTS series
Call Of Duty setries
Call Of Juarez
Castlevania LOS series
Condemned
Crysis series
Dark souls series
Dead rising series
Dead Space series
Deus Ex Human Revelation
Devil May Cry series
Dirt series
Dishonored 1
Doom 3
ES Oblivion
ES Skyrim
Fable 2
Fallout 3
Far Cry series
FEAR
Fifa series
Final Fantasy series
Forza series
Gears Of War series
Ghost Reacon AW series
Ghostbusters the video game
God Of War series
Gran Turismo series
Grid 1
GTA series
Half Life Orange Box
Halo series
Harry Potter series
Heavenly Sword
Heavy Rain
Hitman series
Infamous sersies
Just Cause 2
LEGO series
Little Big Planet series
Lost Planet series
Mass Effect series
Max Payne 3
Metal Gear Solid series
Metro 2033 series
Motorstorm series
NBA2K series
NFS series
Ninja Gaiden series
PES series
Project Gotham Racing series
Pure
Quake 4
Ratchet Clank TOD
Red Dead Redemption
Red Faction Guerrilla
Resident Evil series
Resistance series
Ridge Racer 6
Silent Hill series
Skate Series
Soul Calibur series
Splinter Cell series
Star Wars The Force Unleashed series
Street Fighter
Tekken series
Test Drive
The Amazing Spider Man series
The Darknes series
The Last Of Us
The Witcher series
Tomb Raider 2013
Tony Hawks series
Uncharted series
Unreal Tournament 3
WipeOut Fury
Wolfenstein 2009

well over 100 amazing games, and how many great games we have today on PS4/xbox generation ? Personally I would rather see more games on xbox one/PS4 generation, than new rushed PS5/xbox4 with 10 tflops. I think new PS5/xbox4 generation should have at least 20 tflops and much much much faster CPU than jaguar, otherwise new generation would be pointless. For new generation like that I would pay 500$ easily

 

[pawel86ck]

GTA series and playstation evolution
PS1

PS2

PS3

PS4

As anyone can clearly see, on PS4 graphics is no longer that much better compared with previous generations, it's more like PS3,5. IMO without 20 tflops GPU (4K native 60fps) and ultra fast CPU (compared to jaguar cores) new generation will be another PS4,5, not PS5.

 

[bitbydeath]

As anyone can clearly see, on PS4 graphics is no longer that much better compared with previous generations

GTA is a bad example as the PS4 version is just a PS3 port.

GoW might make for a more interesting example once it releases.

 

[Mooreberg]

$399 has been the mainstream sweet spot for ages, so I think that will be the target with base model. Higher storage capacity units will cost more (though less than 1TB out if the box on anything targeting 4K is nuts to begin with). There have been countless arguments about inflation, horsepower, etc. since the early PS3 days, and the game buying public has never really cared. If they are smart enough to create first party content that showcase the hardware, along with the inevitable slew of "cross gen" games, they'll eventually shed the prior platforms and build good sized user bases. But old platforms will still get plenty of games, just like PS2, and 360/PS3 did. We've seen this movie before. The big difference is how much higher a proportion digital sales will be compared to the start of the current hardware cycle.

 

[alken]

We are counting out Nintendo.
While progression on PS an Xbox lines are "expected" in a way, what about next gen Nintendo?
They are very unpredictable.
home console they where tied to PPC for years, and when they had to leave that socket they prefer not to go AMD way like others.
On handheld console they went arm, but console designs are never the same.
gba
->shift to Arm and dual screen
ds
->shift to 3d and primitive AR
3ds
->shift to tegra(armactually),back to one screen
swtich

I'm waiting for a switch2 but really i cannot count out a returning to pure home console with Amd or even Intel+Nvidia.

Like I said in my prediction they could embrace again AR and add VR to set their vision on this gameplay modes, at least for midgen iteration.
We know they like to use a technology when it is "mature".
are they stick with nvida or coming back Amd?

 

[autoduelist]

Just quoting my old post. This is what I think will happen.

No chance is the current box considered by MS to be their 'next gen' unit. No way. They know damn well they need to compete with the PS5 with a new system.

 

[pawel86ck]

GTA is a bad example as the PS4 version is just a PS3 port.

GoW might make for a more interesting example once it releases.

GTA 5 on PS4 was not some standard port, everything was remastered as if it was PS4 game, not PS3. Red dead redemption 2 is made with PS4 in mind from the start but I doubt we will see much better graphics compared with gta5 (at least trailers doesnt suggest revolution in graphics).

 

[Blam]

No chance is the current box considered by MS to be their 'next gen' unit. No way. They know damn well they need to compete with the PS5 with a new system.

Well what if by that point the X hits a historic low and it's around 299$-399$. That would force Sony's hand really hard because most people won't have 8K whatever and 4K is already a big push.

But imagine the shit storm.

 

[alken]

No chance is the current box considered by MS to be their 'next gen' unit. No way. They know damn well they need to compete with the PS5 with a new system.

2 possibilities:
1)
this was planned because they are going to launch their next xbox way later than ps5.
2)
This was not planned because they need to stop PS4 to get so much ahead in sales. and they were forced to anticipate nextgen.

the XB1X is too much powerful and to pricey anyway.
If ever Sony anticipate PS5 they will be kinda fucked then with price.
Imagine only a crazy thing:
in june Sony announce PS5.
If ever sony manage to launch at 399 in 2019 that would even more panic mode for MS.
good for us because we may found a XB1X at 329 maybe or even less.
Add finally another crazy thing: Nintendo coming back to home console with a cheaper PS4pro kinda of console made just to give 4k to their first party games hardcore gamers.
that would be a nightmare scenario for MS.

 

[Sosokrates]

GTA is a bad example as the PS4 version is just a PS3 port.

GoW might make for a more interesting example once it releases.

Or just compare uncharted 3 with 4.
The leap in 4 is pretty huge.

Also on a side note, if sony or ms release a console with 8-9tflop with a zen its basically current gen graphics @4k 60 and maybe some better AA and other graphical settings slightly dialed up.

 

[bitbydeath]

Also on a side note, if sony or ms release a console with 8-9tflop with a zen its basically current gen graphics @4k 60 and maybe some better AA and other graphical settings slightly dialed up

Note: It is said near the end of every gen that next-gen console games will only look like current-gen PC games possibly worse and everytime Sony smash it out of the park, I wouldn’t underestimate.

 

[geordiemp]

$499, if it’s not a huge leap in power, I don’t think it will be worth it to upgrade.

I want the next gen consoles to be cutting edge Vapor Cooled Devices using a 3nm Zen 3+ 3Ghz 3x3 core CPU, 30GBs of 3D Stacked HBM3, a 3TB SSHD and 30 TFs of GPU Horsepower.

With inflation, $499 today is equivalent to $299 in the 90s, the Switch is basically a $180 device in the 90s after accounting for inflation.

Microsoft is very well positioned for next gen. The One X is powerful enough to keep up with anything Sony could possibly launch in 2019. This means that a $299 One X or possibly a $249 One X is MS wants to be super aggressive will be more appealing than a $400 PS5 for the Penny Pinchers.

Meanwhile an significantly more powerful Xbox Two for $500 an year or two later will draw in the whales like me that would happily pay a premium for the most powerful hardware possible and buy lots of games as well.

Ryzen / I7 level CPU will give either massive AI / enemy possibilities or 60 FPS gaming. Current ps4 Pro and Xb1X will be trash.

I want a pro option out of the gate I agree with you there.

 

[Klik]

I think paying 499$ for new ps5/xbox5 in 2020 is a good price point considering that it will last for the next 8 years. Those 100$ more would help to get a 12+tf gpu paired with A LOT better cpu that current consoles have. Solely 4k isn't that impressive if we don't get better reflections,shadows,destruction etc.The division had a graphical preview on e3 2013 and 6 years later graphics are still lacking with what was shown back then.

 

[NickFire]

I personally would prefer the better specs if the price difference were for specs and not silly peripherals. But I've yet to see any evidence the market is truly ready for $499 as an entry point, and think it would be borderline suicide if your goal is #1 market share. Once you get past early adopters and tech junkies like so many of us here, the sweet spot still seems to be sub 300.

 

[magnumpy]

IMO they should just charge whatever these machines cost. if that's $500 or $600 I don't mind, prices will fall eventually. of course there are cheaper options available if you don't want to spend that much. just get a switch if you want to save money. or just stick to current-gen. next-gen will cost more I think and that's fine.

but I think it will be 2019 or later when they launch.

 

[GoldenEye98]

People never really factor inflation into these things. Value of money is decreasing over time so if people expect console makers to maintain certain pricepoint over time expect to get less for that pricepoint.

ie $400 now is worth about the same as $327 in 2006...$377 in 2013

In a few more years when new consoles launch it will be worth less again.

 

[autoduelist]

Well what if by that point the X hits a historic low and it's around 299$-399$. That would force Sony's hand really hard because most people won't have 8K whatever and 4K is already a big push.

But imagine the shit storm.

Nah. Console buyers go crazy for the 'next gen'. Nobody getting hyped for a ps5 is going to be swayed by a couple to several year old system at that point.

 

[emm_vee]

I think the PS3 proved that a powerful console that does "so much" will only yield hardcore fans (short term growth).

Me thinks they'll put as much as they can in the PS5, as long as the price isn't a cent over $399; while the Xbox One2 will either repeat history at $499 or reuse Xbox One X parts for a $399 price.

 

[Imtjnotu]

im willing to pay up to $500 for a next gen console if the specs are right....

hopefully sony can give us a good enough cpu and atleast 16gb of ram and atleast 2 gigs of OS separate ram outside of the 16gb for games.

 

[grfunkulus]

$499, if it’s not a huge leap in power, I don’t think it will be worth it to upgrade.

I want the next gen consoles to be cutting edge Vapor Cooled Devices using a 3nm Zen 3+ 3Ghz 3x3 core CPU, 30GBs of 3D Stacked HBM3, a 3TB SSHD and 30 TFs of GPU Horsepower.

With inflation, $499 today is equivalent to $299 in the 90s, the Switch is basically a $180 device in the 90s after accounting for inflation.

Microsoft is very well positioned for next gen. The One X is powerful enough to keep up with anything Sony could possibly launch in 2019. This means that a $299 One X or possibly a $249 One X is MS wants to be super aggressive will be more appealing than a $400 PS5 for the Penny Pinchers.

Meanwhile an significantly more powerful Xbox Two for $500 an year or two later will draw in the whales like me that would happily pay a premium for the most powerful hardware possible and buy lots of games as well.

What about this gen though? They lost a lot of good will in my mind, and I'm sure a lot of others', who were disappointed they didn't try to be more aggressive with the initial pricing. Sure, there are already deals to be had that bring the total price closer to $400 but the msrp was basically an admittance that they weren't trying to be the market leader.

It's a fair price for the hardware no doubt, but it's not something that's going to change the dynamic. I don't foresee a $250 Xbox One X in 2019. That would be a massive slap in the face to early adopters. A huge price drop like that is assuming a launch of the ps5 in 2019 too which Sony has almost no incentive to do.

 

[Sosokrates]

Note: It is said near the end of every gen that next-gen console games will only look like current-gen PC games possibly worse and everytime Sony smash it out of the park, I wouldn’t underestimate.

Is it really an overestimation though? With that spec? (Also bare in mind I dont think we will see 9tflop next gen consoles).
The next jump to next gen console power might be different because you have to take into account that there isnt the same level of advancements in shader models like there was this gen.
Also the introduction of 4k throws another curve ball at graphical progression.
However I dont think it will be so bad because.
1. I think the spec will be higher then the one you referred to.
2.MS,SONY,AMD etc knows things the public dont.

Im honestly hoping for pro and X forward compatibility, So I dont have to buy new systems in a while.Im perfectly happy with the graphics these consoles can produce and from a gameplay and design prospective I dont think they are anyway near tapped out.

 

[rokkerkory]

Pretty certain X1 games will have full fwd compatibility and additonal benefits

Sony should follow suit too

 

[Moses85]

Hopefully 499€/$ or even more.
Good Hardware is not possible für 399€/$. This price section is for the FIFA and CoD Gamers, not for the „real Gamers“

Nobody cares about buying a new Smartphone for 800-1000€/$ all two years but a lot of these people blaming about console prices over 399€/$

Sony, M$ and Nintendo shall bring two different versions of their upcoming consoles. Highend and Normal, so we can decide what we want! High Quality Graphics with 60 FPS or Standard with 30 FPS. That would be a fair Deal.

 

[octiny]

499.99 by far.

 

[MistBreeze]

I think next gen should not be considered untill console friendly zen cpu/navi are ready ( next gen should be literally NEXT GEN ) as for price I think two models standard and a pro from the get go and let choice for the consumer aka mobile market approach...

 

[Harlock]

If middle gen is 499, next gen need to be 599 or is not next gen.

 

[pawel86ck]

Or just compare uncharted 3 with 4.
The leap in 4 is pretty huge.

Also on a side note, if sony or ms release a console with 8-9tflop with a zen its basically current gen graphics @4k 60 and maybe some better AA and other graphical settings slightly dialed up.

9 tflops is not enough. On my 12 tflops 1080ti I can only run the most optimised games at 4K 60fps. IMO 20 tflops GPU would do it in every game.

And BTW- tflops is not everything. In many games xbox X is rendering 2.2x more pixels compared to PS4P (4.2 tflops GPU). With just 40% tflops more (1.8 tflops) xbox X is pushing 200% resolution increase over PS4P, so basically xbox X GPU peformance is like 8.4 tflops polaris architecture (2x 4.2 tflops).

On my 1080ti I can max out xbox X games without problems, but many PC gamers have troubles running xbox X games even on GTX 1060.

ultra settings at 4K, 40-50 fps on GTX 1060. With high settings there are still dips to 45 fps. So xbox X GPU performance is very good (4K and rock solid 60fps), and it would be very hard to develop 2x as fast console even year from now.

 

[Zok310]

$499 console in DOA today. No way can we expect gamers to come up with $499 on hardware, no games and no online.
Add it all up and the cart cost is $620, that’s with 1 game and 1 year sub to live or PSN.

A better model is $399 in 2020 followed by $399 3 years later with the Pro models half way through, this way you target the power hunger gamers more directly through the cycle and not kill the casuals with a massive upfront cost.
Most gamers that want the power will trade up to pro models by reselling the launch model cutting some cost.
Way better and more fluid for all gamers.

Unreal!

 

[ShadowFox08]

Games are a luxury. If they can get 20 TFLOPs at $400, great, but we end up getting a 20TFLOP console in 2021 at 499,might as well, unless gamers wanna wait 2 more years. I mean 400 is the best price/threshold for consumers, but if the jump isn't big enough from current generation, then it needs to be delayed to be affordable if not at 500

 

[Badlucktroll]

Will Ps5 be a Mark Cerny designed console? Will the "mid gen" Ps5 upgraded/refreshed console have "Checkerboard rendering and upscaling" for 8k tvs?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Will Ps5 be a Mark Cerny designed console? Will the "mid gen" Ps5 upgraded/refreshed console have "Checkerboard rendering and upscaling" for 8k tvs?

I think MarkCerny is still the lead architect as we've heard nothing to suggest otherwise. Besides PS5 design is either already complete with this year being physical chips being tested/finalised now or will be by year end if 2020.

 

[Badlucktroll]

I can't wait for the event when Sony reveals the Ps5. It's going to surprise us all i bet. Especially spec wise.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I can't wait for the event when Sony reveals the Ps5. It's going to surprise us all i bet. Especially spec wise.

This will work fine with me because I have more realistic (quite low) expectations. For those that expect miracles will be disappointed.