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[CameFromNearFuture]

We will revisit this when the actual specs are announced. And I'm going to say I told you so.

I wish You luck. You're gonna need it

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Wonder what the potential differences this could bring in multiplats or PS5 exclusives:

XSX Nvme 2GB/s
PS5 Re-Ram 25GB/s??

We've heard literally nothing definitive on ReRAM with PS5; the closest was maybe with the cartridges but those got debunked rather quickly.

Aside from that, if we're looking at 12.1TF vs 13.2TF and 16GB RAM vs 24GB RAM, in all honesty MS is going to have to price XSEX notably lower than PS5, otherwise that could be another XBO/PS4 situation somewhat.

I did do some numbers though and I guess 13.2 would fall within the 10% range that some of the earlier stuff from Osiris was implying. So if the whole dates = power stuff lines up, we're looking at either January 13th or Febuary 13th for PS5 reveal, and I'm really feeling they're gonna do something in January now because why not?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Sony put a $1000.00+ Blu-ray player in the PS3 and that was just the disk drive. 700 is nothing.

I have no idea where you're getting the 1000 dollar plus figure from but okay. As I said to the poster above, we'll revisit this when the specs are announced.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I wish You luck. You're gonna need it

I'll take that bet all day long.

 

[vpance]

You're gonna understand very soon...

Quantum AI DDRX holy shit

 

[Fushitsusha]

If crazy ken was the engineer of the PS5, you all would get the fantasy specs dreamed in this thread. however, he is not and we wall know how the ps3 ended up. reading this thread too, you all want the specs but not the price.

can't have both. why is it so difficult to understand? this page is especially unbelievable fantasy.

 

[bitbydeath]

I have no idea where you're getting the 1000 dollar plus figure from but okay. As I said to the poster above, we'll revisit this when the specs are announced.

That’s what they were retailing for when PS3 released. They were over 1200 where I live but most other countries had them closer to 1000

 

[Pyramid Song]

#IBelieveInCerny

 

[LordOfChaos]

typical millenial behavior. someone slightly challenges them and they hit the block button.

we just playing, mods

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

If crazy ken was the engineer of the PS5, you all would get the fantasy specs dreamed in this thread. however, he is not and we wall know how the ps3 ended up. reading this thread too, you all want the specs but not the price.

can't have both. why is it so difficult to understand? i mean, the speculations are getting more and more unbelievable.

We'll have both

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

That’s what they were retailing for when PS3 released. They were over 1200 where I live but most other countries had them closer to 1000

A quick google says this.

Sony's PlayStation 3 has finally been released, but is selling well below manufacturing costs, according to findings released by an electronics industry research firm.

Research by iSuppli found that the materials and manufacturing cost of the PlayStation 3 is $805.85 for the 20Gbyte Hard Disk Drive (HDD) version and $840.35 for the 60Gbyte (HDD) version. The two versions are being sold for $499 and $599, respectively. Sony takes a loss of $306.85 for the 20Gbyte version and $241.35 for the 60Gbyte version. This total does not include additional costs for the controller, cables and packaging.

“With the PlayStation 3, you are getting the performance of a supercomputer at the price of an entry-level PC,” said Andrew Rassweiler, the teardown services manager and senior analyst for iSuppli.

In comparison, PlayStation’s rival, Xbox 360, has a materials and manufacturing cost of $323.30 and a suggested retail price of $399, according to analysts at iSuppli.

Sony Not Playing Around With PS3 Manufacturing Costs

Manufacturing and materials cost are significantly higher than retail costs.

www.manufacturing.net

Not quite the 1000 dollar plus blu ray drive you suggested.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Lmao eveyday a new "insider" shows up

A million so-called leakers and insiders who love to get clicks and internet brownie points.

Number who leaked Series X and Hellblade 2 would be at the show.

Zero.

 

[pawel86ck]

I agree completely. When they advertised the One X they were crystal clear about the Teraflop number because the X and Pro shared the same "GCN" gflops.

This time (and Stadia's 10.7 teraflops in GCN standards complicated things for Sony and MS when it comes to advertising the hardware power using tflops numbers) MS avoided using the tflops argument they SO HEAVILY relied on when marketing the X and I believe Sony will do the same.

I think that in raw tflops value (not real world performance)...XSX and PS5 won't exceed Stadia (maybe XSX and PS5 have even lower tflops numbers than Stadia) in a way that it's worth bringing to the public knowledge.

It would be complicated for MS and Sony explain that their consoles can easily outperform Stadia even with lower or similar tflops values, so the only wayout for Sony and MS is to use realistic real world performance comparisons without fully disclosing the specs in a Nintendo fashion since the Gamecube days...

The irony of that is that (especially Sony which loves throwing theoretical numbers that not always translate into realtime gameworld performance...) Sony and MS won't be able to market specs or theoretical power this time but realworld performance.

A 9.7-10 tflops RDNA GPU falls perfectly into Phil's GPU ONLY comparison with the performance of base Xbox One (eight times higher) and Xbox One X (two times higher).

But you only need 8TF Navi if you want to match 8x xbox one GPU performance (because it was early GCN architecture), while in order to match match 2x RX 580 polaris you need 10TF Navi (and keep in mind xbox x GPU is even faster than standard polaris RX 580). 8TF Navi for 8x xbox one and 10TF+ Navi for 2x xbox x are two different numbers and therefore different performance levels.

Only standard TFLOPS metric (without taking into account architecture efficiency improvements) can match what Phil has said with one number. 12TF is exactly over 8x xbox one s, and exactly 2x faster than xbox x.

With detailed Windows Central leaks on top of that just before xbox SX reveal I'm 99% certain MS is aiming at 12TF, but you guys if you want can still doubt and think MS will launch their premium console with 8-9TF at the end of 2020.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The main reason I'm skeptical about such exotic RAM and higher than expected TF (for me anyway) is Sony/Jim Ryan reiterating they are planning to go really aggressive on the transition over to PS5.

I just can't see that they can sell PS5 at a faster rate than PS4 at a higher $499/€499/£499 price and there seems little chance (according to everyone and his dog) of $399.

Nothing is adding up.

 

[bitbydeath]

we just playing, mods

 

[Fushitsusha]

A million so-called leakers and insiders who love to get clicks and internet brownie points.

Number who leaked Series X and Hellblade 2 would be at the show.

Zero.

 

[CameFromNearFuture]

A million so-called leakers and insiders who love to get clicks and internet brownie points.

Number who leaked Series X and Hellblade 2 would be at the show.

Zero.

Where have You been ? I leaked Godfall.

You cant demand us to telly in advance every little thing. Its not How it Works.

We have privilage to know in advance some relevant infos, not every single info.

 

[DeepEnigma]

A quick google says this.

Sony Not Playing Around With PS3 Manufacturing Costs

Manufacturing and materials cost are significantly higher than retail costs.

www.manufacturing.net

Not quite the 1000 dollar plus blu ray drive you suggested.

That’s manufacturing cost. The players were retailing for $1K at the time.

The drive in the PS3 was also top of the line in feature set as well. It wasn’t a cheapened out version. Same thing Sony did with DVD and CD in the two previous consoles.

Crazy Price Milestones in Our 16 Years

This month, dealnews is celebrating a milestone: We're turning 16! Since we're a shopping site with a penchant for tech and other nerdy things, we decided to reflect on the most earth-shattering product releases from the last 16 years, that have also drastically changed in value since their...

www.dealnews.com

 

[bitbydeath]

A quick google says this.

Sony Not Playing Around With PS3 Manufacturing Costs

Manufacturing and materials cost are significantly higher than retail costs.

www.manufacturing.net

Not quite the 1000 dollar plus blu ray drive you suggested.

Quick google search from a real source.

We're not sure if the model number was meant to match the price, but the unit will list for around $1,000.

Samsung's BD-P1000: first U.S. Blu-Ray player

Samsung certainly isn't feeling blueabout the new high-def DVD formats. In fact, they're touting their BD-P1000 Blu-Ray player here at the big show eventhough we don't have any Blu-Raymovies with us. We're not sure if the model number was meant to match the price, but the unit will listfor...

www.engadget.com

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Are you implying the source I linked are lying for some reason? I mean, I take the commercial price thing on board, but a 'real' source? Really?

 

[Negotiator]

But you only need 8TF Navi if you want to match 8x xbox one GPU performance (because it was early GCN architecture), while in order to match match 2x RX 580 polaris you need 10TF Navi (and keep in mind xbox x GPU is even faster than standard polaris RX 580). 8TF Navi for 8x xbox one and 10TF+ Navi for 2x xbox x are two different numbers and therefore different performance levels.

Only standard TFLOPS metric (without taking into account architecture efficiency improvements) can match what Phil has said with one number. 12TF is exactly over 8x xbox one s, and exactly 2x faster than xbox x.

With detailed Windows Central leaks on top of that just before xbox SX reveal I'm 99% certain MS is aiming at 12TF, but you guys if you want can still doubt and think MS will launch their premium console with 8-9TF at the end of 2020.

Exactly.

Why do people forget the fact that Pro/X have Polaris (GCN 1.2) GPUs? GCN 1.2 is not the same as GCN 1.1 (which introduced 8 ACEs for fine-grain compute) or GCN 1.0 (2 ACEs).

Polaris introduced DCC (memory compression) and vastly improved tessellation. Don't those count as efficiency improvements? Not to mention Vega-style customizations on Pro.

The main reason I'm skeptical about such exotic RAM and higher than expected TF (for me anyway) is Sony/Jim Ryan reiterating they are planning to go really aggressive on the transition over to PS5.

I just can't see that they can sell PS5 at a faster rate than PS4 at a higher $499/€499/£499 price and there seems little chance (according to everyone and his dog) of $399.

Nothing is adding up.

If Sony is willing to take a $200 loss per unit, $399 MSRP is still possible.

Both Anaconda and PS5 are going to have a $600 BoM and it will be worth it.

 

[TeamGhobad]

#IBelieveInCerny

but you need to believe in science and logic. a gpu under 250mm^2 and under 200watts doing 13 rdna tflops?
either way i think ps5 will be more powerful BUT they will be much closer in power than last time. maybe ps5 is like 10% more powerful.

 

[bitbydeath]

Are you implying the source I linked are lying for some reason? I mean, I take the commercial price thing on board, but a 'real' source? Really?

As pointed out that was the estimated manufacturing costs, retailing was $1000+

 

[sonomamashine]

My favorite was when he said
“PS4k will have a 4k blue ray player “
Result: doesn’t
“PS4K will have a better CPU”
Result: up-clocked Jaguar
“Deep Down is still a thing”
Result: Isn’t

I got that tower look right, according to his flawed logic i must be an insider aswell.

 

[Insane Metal]

PS5:

128GB ReRam with 25.6GB/s read speed and 9.6GB/s write, + 1TB NVMe SSD.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

If Sony is willing to take a $200 loss per unit, $399 MSRP is still possible.

Both Anaconda and PS5 are going to have a $600 BoM and it will be worth it.

Seriously though, how likely is this? I'm thinking close to zero %.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

As pointed out that was the estimated manufacturing costs, retailing was $1000+

You believe Sony selling consoles at a significant loss motivated them to do the same thing again?

 

[bitbydeath]

Seriously though, how likely is this? I'm thinking close to zero %.

I think $450 is possible, not expecting $399 tho.

 

[bitbydeath]

You believe Sony selling consoles at a significant loss motivated them to do the same thing again?

I’m saying history is against your logic of an expensive GPU being included.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

PS5:

128GB ReRam with 25.6GB/s read speed and 9.6GB/s write, + 1TB NVMe SSD.

Back to the drawing board boys.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I’m saying history is against your logic of an expensive GPU being included.

I didn't rule out an expensive GPU. I expect 5700 performance. I specifically scoffed at the idea of the next gen consoles matching 2080 Super performance.

 

[sonomamashine]

I think $450 is possible, not expecting $399 tho.

Possible or

Xbox serie x : 549$
Xbox serie s : 349$
Playstation 5 : 499$

 

[Pyramid Song]

but you need to believe in science and logic. a gpu under 250mm^2 and under 200watts doing 13 rdna tflops?
either way i think ps5 will be more powerful BUT they will be much closer in power than last time. maybe ps5 is like 10% more powerful.

Well based on Tommy's numbers PS5 is 10% more powerfull. Agree with you they will be closer in power terms imo

 

[sonomamashine]

I didn't rule out an expensive GPU. I expect 5700 performance. I specifically scoffed at the idea of the next gen consoles matching 2080 Super performance.

Yep a 5700 xt performance + ray tracing.

 

[bitbydeath]

I didn't rule out an expensive GPU. I expect 5700 performance. I specifically scoffed at the idea of the next gen consoles matching 2080 Super performance.

We’ll have to wait and see, not too much longer to go now!

 

[Kusarigama]

P

New FPS flagship from one of sony fp studios you literally won't believe

If PolyphonyDigital is doing it then i won't believe

 

[Negotiator]

but you need to believe in science and logic. a gpu under 250mm^2 and under 200watts doing 13 rdna tflops?
either way i think ps5 will be more powerful BUT they will be much closer in power than last time. maybe ps5 is like 10% more powerful.

Science and logic is the way we have major die shrinks every couple of years. It's called Dennard scaling.

Have you ever wondered how RSX was equal to 2 x GeForce 6800 Ultra?

And yet, people called RSX weak...

I guess I need to refresh your memory about how much GeForce 6800 Ultra cost back in the day:

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra Specs

NVIDIA NV45, 425 MHz, 16 Pixel Shaders, 6 Vertex Shaders, 16 TMUs, 16 ROPs, 256 MB GDDR3, 550 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Last but not least, let's see some GPU BoM:

Seriously though, how likely is this? I'm thinking close to zero %.

I dunno, let's say if Lockhart puts pressure on them and Sony feels compelled to go the extra mile...

People don't realize how important is the gaming division (SIE) for Sony. If PS5 goes kaputt, it's game over for them. It ain't gonna look pretty, that's for sure. They cannot afford yet another PS3 moment.

On the other hand, the XBOX department for MS is not a core pillar of their business, unlike Azure/Windows/Office for example.

Now I'm not saying that MS isn't gonna try to win next-gen, of course they will, it already seems they're doing a pretty good job, but even if they don't win, it's not a big deal.

Personally I expect a 50/50 market share, just like how PS3/XBOX 360 ended up equal in terms of sold units.

 

[vivftp]

52 active CUs at 2.0Ghz ~ 13.3TFlops
PS5

52 active CUs at 1.82Ghz ~ 12.1TFlops
XseX


gl

Good day to you Mr. Fisher. In the hopes you are right and have knowledge of these things, I'd like to ask if you know anything about the PS5's storage and RAM solutions. For the RAM are we looking at GDDR6, or HBM 2/3? Would you happen to know how much?

More importantly though, would you know if Sony is implementing ReRAM into the PS5 in any way, shape or form? Be it as a cache between the SSD and RAM, or as the primary storage?

Thank you

 

[sonomamashine]

For the RAM are we looking at GDDR6, or HBM 2/3?

It would be a surprise if they went with HBM rather than GDDR6, according to scarlette first trailer it's GDDR6 but could be a dupe.
RAM i don't think it's gonna be 24GB, it's more likely to be between 16GB and 20GB of ram.

 

[vpance]

We've heard literally nothing definitive on ReRAM with PS5; the closest was maybe with the cartridges but those got debunked rather quickly.

Aside from that, if we're looking at 12.1TF vs 13.2TF and 16GB RAM vs 24GB RAM, in all honesty MS is going to have to price XSEX notably lower than PS5, otherwise that could be another XBO/PS4 situation somewhat.

I did do some numbers though and I guess 13.2 would fall within the 10% range that some of the earlier stuff from Osiris was implying. So if the whole dates = power stuff lines up, we're looking at either January 13th or Febuary 13th for PS5 reveal, and I'm really feeling they're gonna do something in January now because why not?

I imagine that was the reason Lockhart was in flux. As soon as MS knew they couldn't match the overall specs of PS5 they had to give it the ok.

If they can't beat Sony on specs they have to win on price. But I don't see them lowering it on XSX. That just furthers the public perception of it being worse. So in comes Lockhart.

 

[Lort]

52 active CUs at 2.0Ghz ~ 13.3TFlops
PS5

52 active CUs at 1.82Ghz ~ 12.1TFlops
XseX


gl

...

how on earth could Xbox deliver the same flops as ps5 ...

xbox has traditionally had higher clocks and better cooling ...

If thats what the dev kits are a simple upclock will make them the same ( obviously).

 

[TeamGhobad]

It would be a surprise if they went with HBM rather than GDDR6, according to scarlette first trailer it's GDDR6 but could be a dupe.
RAM i don't think it's gonna be 24GB, it's more likely to be between 16GB and 20GB of ram.

there were rumors that ps5 has split the pool between ddr4 and hbm..

 

[Achillias]

 

[SlimySnake]

PS5 - 56 CU 2.0 ghz 14.2 tflops
XSEX - 56 CU 1.675 ghz 12.0 tflops

PS5 - 16 GB HBM2 - 4 GB DDR4
XSEX - 16 GB GDDR6

Sony went to cotsco and got a bulk discount on low voltage hbm2 chips. MS bought them from microcenter.

PS5 - 5GBps 2TB SSD
XSEX - 2GBps 1TB SSD

PS5 - 25 GBps 120 GB ReRAM
XSEX - What's ReRAM??

PS5 - 3.2 ghz 8 core 16 thread cpu
XSEX - 3.6 ghz 8 core 16 thread cpu

gl

Source: my uncle works at costco.

 

[vivftp]

there were rumors that ps5 has split the pool between ddr4 and hbm..

If ReRAM is involved I'm wondering if they could build a channel directly from it to the APU and run the OS straight from there. That way all the RAM gets dedicated only to the games and the OS can get access to a much larger pool of memory.

 

[sonomamashine]

there were rumors that ps5 has split the pool between ddr4 and hbm..

DDR4 ????? ...

PS5 - 56 CU 2.0 ghz 14.2 tflops
XSEX - 56 CU 1.675 ghz 12.0 tflops

PS5 - 16 GB HBM2 - 4 GB DDR4
XSEX - 16 GB GDDR6

Sony went to cotsco and got a bulk discount on low voltage hbm2 chips. MS bought them from microcenter.

PS5 - 5GBps 2TB SSD
XSEX - 2GBps 1TB SSD

PS5 - 25 GBps 120 GB ReRAM
XSEX - What's ReRAM??

PS5 - 3.2 ghz 8 core 16 thread cpu
XSEX - 3.6 ghz 8 core 16 thread cpu

gl

Source: my uncle works at costco.

Im sorry to bring this to you ......
Your uncle have some problems .

 

[TLZ]

You believe Sony selling consoles at a significant loss motivated them to do the same thing again?

Remember back then psn was free. Services have also come a long way since and very profitable.

 

[sonomamashine]

Thinking about it HBM must be someones secret sauce, would it be a headache for Devs tho ?

 

[ResilientBanana]

With all these predictions regarding PlayStation 5 I love how everyone is shooting for the move to downplay the Xbox. This will probably be a 12TF RDNA vs a 12.1 TF RDNA situation. That dev kit was atrocious but this design for the XSX to be very practical for airflow. I have a feeling Sony will be form over function.

 

[-kb-]

Thinking about it HBM must be someones secret sauce, would it be a headache for Devs tho ?

Managing extra memory spaces is always more difficult but a decent amount of HBM (4GB+) shouldn't be too hard to manage.