Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


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TBiddy

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It'll be great to see what both companies can do with OS advancements next gen. With SSDs, more and faster RAM, and a beast CPU compared to the Jags, they could do some great stuff. I would like to see MS do something like the game bar overlay for console but more expansive for media. I really loved snap feature and would like to see an advanced version of that but in a picture in picture customizable overlay.
Agreed. The OS on both consoles have been ranging from piss-poor to mediocre at best.
 

SonGoku

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It'll be great to see what both companies can do with OS advancements next gen. With SSDs, more and faster RAM, and a beast CPU compared to the Jags, they could do some great stuff. I would like to see MS do something like the game bar overlay for console but more expansive for media. I really loved snap feature and would like to see an advanced version of that but in a picture in picture customizable overlay.
tbh I'd be happy with a simplistic fast os i rather they not take away resources from games (zen cores, main memory) for os features.
 
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ethomaz

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A minimalist designed OS that have fast response is optional for console imo.

Input delays (the time you hit the button until the app/command happens and the action is back to you) needs to be lower than 1s.

You your OS have over 5s to open a message, over 5s to enter in a Party, over 5s to open your friend list, over 5 seconds to open the story, etc.. then you did something wrong with the design of your OS.

Apple should be taken like an example... it is a joy to use the iOS... consoles OS should be like that.
 
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demigod

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I was typing and he beat me to it. I was referring to 4chan and reddit. It's the same damn thing. I'm sure there are plenty of "names" on twitter, one of which was posted here, but I don't care to look for it. If you've kept up with this and the other threads, it isn't made up, so i don't know why you're acting as if it never happened. No need to be facetious. There's high Hopes coming from both sides. It does seem like the majority is starting to level out, though. It's understandable. People get excited and shoot a bit too high.
I'm still waiting for that "insider" that you claim that says PS5 will be stronger. Anonymous posts are totally different from Phil and Klobrille claiming nextbox will be more powerful. Don't try to say I haven't kept up with the thread when I've posted more than you in this thread. Most of those pastebins are rubbish. The only one that might be credible is the one that Ruthenic commented on.
 

OSC

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The 360 was magic, is that your point? .. it was more powerful cheaper and released a year earier.

Sony is known for a whole lot of BS before release .. for the ps3 ( multiple hdmi outs .. pretending it was way better than the 360).. they also did the whole massive disinformation campaign that killed the dreamcast when that was actually a great machine.
Nvidia has had issues with the deals they've made with console manufacturers overtime. Also the 360 benefited from the unified shaders tech amd develped that the ps3 lacked, the ps3 made up for it with the power of the cell cpu which helped graphics.

A new type of tech could arrive, like say the ray tracing h/w acceleration and it might be that not both have it.
 
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~Fake

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Apple should be taken like an example... it is a joy to use the iOS... consoles OS should be like that.
I dunno. Both my father and mother have those iphone (the last one). In the early days was a bless no doub, but from now they're lost some of the smoth with time. Reverse more memory for the OS don't solve much of the core problem. Keeping add feature and more feature most of the time result in more consuming OS.
 

SonGoku

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Which """***Insider***""" says Sony is stronger or is this tales from your arse as usual?
From the ones posted in this thread i count one exactly (well 2 if you count the 4chan one)
The reddit one that said Xbox would be weaker due to focusing on machine learning besides that i haven't seen anything claiming xbox weaker
LuvOfThaGame LuvOfThaGame On this thread there aren't many claiming Xbox weaker, i would be surprised if its more than 3 members.

Frankly i think this whos more powerful talk is premature without hard specs reveals.
 

ethomaz

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I dunno. Both my father and mother have those iphone (the last one). In the early days was a bless no doub, but from now they're lost some of the smoth with time. Reverse more memory for the OS don't solve much of the core problem. Keeping add feature and more feature most of the time result in more consuming OS.
Which iPhone? I have actually an iPhone SE from 2016... never reseted it and even today it performance is great... to be fair it have a increase in responsibility from iOS 11 to iOS 12... it is a bit faster now than it was at launch.

iPhone SE has 2GB or RAM.
 
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Lort

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Back to this? lol PS4 has spanked Xbox all the way through even after Xbox x dropped.

PS3 nooooo Xbox exclusive on 360 looked better than Uncharted 2/3,TLOU, Killzone 2/3, God of War etc this was a consensus not just hot air out someone's ass like you know lol .

Again at a higher price point, a year later Sony all the way through outsold 360 worldwide until the end almost every month. Your argument is frivolous and weak like the Xbox's tht kept dying of rrod lol and padding the numbers. 360 was not stronger than Ps3 only multiplats performed better because of the cell.

You can respond but I'm done with this convo. Facts are facts 😁
To to summarise this post..
1 ps4 outsold xbox .. which was never debated and you also failed to mention the xbox was more expensive. Also the xbox one x has sold as many as ps4 pro despite being a year later and costing more
2 you like a game and u say its better therefor the clearly means the architecture is in fact better .. So as forza horizon > drive club therefor xbox one > ps4 .. as i said your logic is flawed
3 wah wah wah i dont like what happened and i wished ps3 won
 
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LuvOfThaGame

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I'm still waiting for that "insider" that you claim that says PS5 will be stronger. Anonymous posts are totally different from Phil and Klobrille claiming nextbox will be more powerful. Don't try to say I haven't kept up with the thread when I've posted more than you in this thread. Most of those pastebins are rubbish. The only one that might be credible is the one that Ruthenic commented on.
They are still claiming inside knowledge, hense "insider". You're just being pedantic to try and discredit someone you don't like.


Quickly scanned the first several pages. Same thing. Fake insider claims.
Sony could be more powerful. MS could too. We don't know. People will latch on to whatever makes them feel better.
 

~Fake

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Iphone 8.
never reseted it and even today it performance is great... to be fair it have a increase in responsibility from iOS 11 to iOS 12... it is a bit faster now than it was at launch.
iPhone SE has 2GB or RAM.
If you're a tech guy like me you will know both the 'trash' apps and a bunch of security patchs can compromisse the smoth of the OS. Besides, that update with reduce perfomance in favor of the battery too. Was a headache. I contact Apple Brazil so many god damn times.
 
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LuvOfThaGame

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From the ones posted in this thread i count one exactly (well 2 if you count the 4chan one)
The reddit one that said Xbox would be weaker due to focusing on machine learning besides that i haven't seen anything claiming xbox weaker
LuvOfThaGame LuvOfThaGame On this thread there aren't many claiming Xbox weaker, i would be surprised if its more than 3 members.

Frankly i think this whos more powerful talk is premature without hard specs reveals.
Which was my point. There is crap coming from all directions. It's not just Xbox and none of it is to be believed.
 

Gamernyc78

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To to summarise this post..
1 ps4 outsold xbox .. which was never debated and you also failed to mention the xbox was more expensive. Also the xbox one x has sold as many as ps4 pro despite being a year later and costing more
2 you like a game and u say its better therefor the clearly means the architecture is in fact better .. So as forza horizon > drive club therefor xbox one > ps4 .. as i said your logic is flawed
3 wah wah wah i dont like what happened and i wished ps3 won

😂😂😂😂 Tons of articles like this and definitely during ps3 era but I'll let you dream your dream.
 

LordOfChaos

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Did you guys post this yet? Or am I late?



So this dev is saying that an "unpatched" PS4 game loads in 15 seconds on the PS5, compared to 42 seconds on a PS4 Pro with a HDD and 25 seconds on a PS4 Pro with a SSD. There's every reason to believe that if the game was patched it could load in under 10 seconds!

That's incredible when you consider that most PS4 gamers don't even have an SSD installed.

This was one that was a confirmed fake, they had a URL in their avatar, if you went to it it was something that tried to look like a CLPeak output, except they screwed it up and put double values under half precision. When pressed about anything technical they went to "Oh I'm not a software developer", but then why would they be able to run that command in the first place lol.

 
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mckmas8808

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This was one that was a confirmed fake, they had a URL in their avatar, if you went to it it was something that tried to look like a CLPeak output, except they screwed it up and put double values under half precision. When pressed about anything technical they went to "Oh I'm not a software developer", but then why would they be able to run that command in the first place lol.

Oh darn! :messenger_pensive:
 

ethomaz

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Iphone 8.

If you're a tech guy like me you will know both the 'trash' apps and a bunch of security patchs can compromisse the smoth of the OS. Besides, that update with reduce perfomance in favor of the battery too. Was a headache. I contact Apple Brazil so many god damn times.
Well I never had an 8 but I'm looking to buy one... it is over three years with SE.
I did had battery issues because my phone submerged in water lol I had to change the battery to a new to it works again (it only worked plugged on energy with the old battery) so I did not see that decreased in battery performance but it was new battery :D

BTW I just want a fast and function OS without all these things that take resource and looks "slow".
 
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~Fake

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Well I never had an 8 but I'm looking to buy one... it is over three years with SE.
I did had battery issues because my phone submerged in water lol I had to change the battery to a new to it works again (it only worked plugged on energy with the old battery) so I did not see that decreased in battery performance but it was new battery D:
My mother drop the iphone on the water as well. My point IMO is: More resources = More ambitious
If you take into consideration those PS5 sensor/features rumors and how Xbox OS evolved.
 
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xool

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Agreed. The OS on both consoles have been ranging from piss-poor to mediocre at best.
tbh I'd be happy with a simplistic fast os i rather they not take away resources from games (zen cores, main memory) for os features.
A minimalist designed OS that have fast response is optional for console imo.

Input delays (the time you hit the button until the app/command happens and the action is back to you) needs to be lower than 1s.
I wouldn't hold your breath.

Xbox OS runs on UWP (Universal Windows Platform) .. because reasons .. basically the whole thing is a big bloated app running under many layers of abstraction - no surprise it's mud slow like a 1990s java program

PS4 front end runs on Webkit (same thing as Google Chrome, sort of), plus a ton of other components.. basically the front end is a offline webpage .. that limits how fast it can be.

MS uses UWP because compatibility across different platforms - I really don't think they're going to changed - though maybe they can improve the performance it's always going to be at the low end of what is possible.

Anyway -- remember the 360 front end - not just the blades, but also the "modern" (squares and rectangles) look that game with avatars - that was lightning fast .. thanks MS for bloat.

Also there's no way the OS needs more than 1 core, or that much memory, this gen or next gen, but I get used to disappointment - I'm running full windows on a Z3735F atom (1.6GHz tops), and when in the background it downclocks to around 5% utilization @ 0.78GHz - yet it's still doing all the updates, scheduling multitasking, check IO, etc. I've got more stuff open than I ever have on PS4 (plus the crap Win10 preloads in RAM anway) and the memory usage is still rarely above 1.5GB How the fuck Sony/MS needs 2 cores / 3.5GB+ is a mystery to me..
 
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TLZ

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Xbox one x has been selling very well nobody claimed it would sell more than the original consoles.. Sony claimed the ps4 pro was a 4k machine .. its not, MS claimed its machine was and it is. The price difference is small, its quieter looks better has more ram and significantly better performance.

The xbox one x is a way better machine than the ps4 pro .. and obviously the Pro sold just a few more despite the huge advantage of user base because Sony wont talk about sales numbers.

Total sales generally still put 360 ahead.
Games wise the best graphics was almost always 360 .. if u use 1 or two games to prove an architecture is better then forza horizon 3 easily beating drive club means the xbox one is more powerful than the ps4. I doubt youd be down with that argument. Your obviously a little confused and reactive as i pointed out in my last point.

As i said console sales wise, game sales wise and performance wise the 360 beat the ps3.

Overall sony has lost 3 out of 4 performance capabilities of the console releases.
 

xool

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Where did you read that? Not saying you're wrong, but this is the first I've heard of it.
There was a interesting (official developer) Sony article on it early on - trying to find it now - they explained why they chose it, and what they did with it. Google is failing me right now

Anyway here's proof : https://trac.webkit.org/wiki/SonyWebKitWork2016 :

Why is it used? (webkit.org)
  • PS3, PS Vita, PS4 (Current Focus)
  • Use it as a Browser on the PS4.
  • But mainly in the PS UI.
  • Social apps on PS4 are all web applications.
  • But most importantly, the PlayStation Store.

From somewhere else - I like this quote : So they have a web browser for the sole purpose of setting up an GLES context for their UI? On a video game console? I guess that's what you do when you suddenly have 8GB of RAM, you piss it away on useless shit...
 
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Insane Metal

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I'm curious to see what Sony comes up with for the PS5 UI. MS will obviously follow the Windows UI with their next console as they use it everywhere. Unfortunately.
 

CurryPanda

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I'm curious to see what Sony comes up with for the PS5 UI. MS will obviously follow the Windows UI with their next console as they use it everywhere. Unfortunately.
PS5 UI will probably be similar to PS4’s now, but modified. And, while Ms will use windows UI, I’m sure it will be more optimized this time around, and with a SSD, it should be faster.
 
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LordOfChaos

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I wouldn't hold your breath.

Xbox OS runs on UWP (Universal Windows Platform) .. because reasons .. basically the whole thing is a big bloated app running under many layers of abstraction - no surprise it's mud slow like a 1990s java program

PS4 front end runs on Webkit (same thing as Google Chrome, sort of), plus a ton of other components.. basically the front end is a offline webpage .. that limits how fast it can be.

MS uses UWP because compatibility across different platforms - I really don't think they're going to changed - though maybe they can improve the performance it's always going to be at the low end of what is possible.

Anyway -- remember the 360 front end - not just the blades, but also the "modern" (squares and rectangles) look that game with avatars - that was lightning fast .. thanks MS for bloat.

Source for PS4 front end running a web view? It makes sense since it runs like ass, but I'd never heard of that.

Even still - a webview with a good 5x boost to ST performance will still be a lot better than now. SSDs also help the PS4 OS performance and that's with how much the PS4 kneecaps their performance, so unless they majorly screw the pooch I'm looking forward to a much faster UI.

How the fuck Sony/MS needs 2 cores / 3.5GB+ is a mystery to me..
They both did release the second core minus some reservation, that's when the PS4 UI got even slower as they seemed to give games resources back without refactoring the OS to run as good on the new constraints.
 
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wutnau

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There was a interesting (official developer) Sony article on it early on - trying to find it now - they explained why they chose it, and what they did with it.
I mean, in theory, it makes sense - Webkit (or they should be using Blink now, but I digress) makes it easy to do some trivial positioning and transitions, and the engine can run very fluidly given the right conditions.

The reason it can run like ass, is that (this is from a frontend programmer POV) both the markup and styling are very much unoptimal. I don't know anything about how PS4 runs internally, but if the web version of PSN is anything to go by... there's so much room for improvement.
 

xool

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[Edit] I'm 99% certain the Webkit article was the one mentioned here : https://www.neogaf.com/threads/many-ps4-apps-and-ui-elements-built-in-webgl.716723/

It's (the website) dead as Google+ though [you can try archive.org to see the old webpages but they're incomplete captures]

[edit 2] https://www.psxhax.com/threads/ps4-freebsd-webgl-html5-webkit-save-encryption-development.2125/

[kakarotok] Saw this and thought I'd share before i forgot: plus.google.com/113371030751322342143/posts/Mzy6VEAwHaa
[mysis] heh i already guessed that the new ui could be html5 based :D
[kakarotok] I never thought of it but i should have guessed!
[kakarotok] Anyways that's good info for the wiki and means if we ever get jailbreak, should make things easy to modify
[mysis] its way faster etc. than using the xml xmb crap..
[kakarotok] Html... Javascript... Beurk
[mysis] but nice to seem someone confirming it
[mysis] *see
[kakarotok] Well, you know me :p
[kakarotok] If it's not C, then i disapprove..
[mysis] :)
[kakarotok] Yeah
[kakarotok] So... Ps4 ux is running webkit...
[kakarotok] *list all the webkit exploits*
[defyboy] wow nice
This is why when you google "PS4 Webkit" there are so many console cracks in the results ...
 
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LordOfChaos

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xool

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At least it's WebGL and so GPU accelerated. But you have a console maker and all the expertise within them resort to that...Running natively within GNM would be so much faster and so much better a user experience, shame they didn't do the extra work for that.
Pity the old article isn't there - a lot of the justification makes sense. Plus the transition from UI to webrowsing (ie PStore) should be painless and reuse the same codebase - rather than have to maintain a browser, plus extra code for the UI ..
 

Aceofspades

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So many pointless "leaks"! I don't recall this happening with current gen. And they seem to come from everywhere. Soon we will have Pornhub and Allrecipes.com leaks!
This is actually killing the hype of new consoles for me. :messenger_pensive:
Yeah, leaks in the previous gens were few and far between but they were mostly real and based on "real insider info" not attention seeking snowflakes who filled all social media seeking some useless self worth. I even loath their attitude of bait and switch, tbh they are mostly on MS side..you have Brad Sams, Statham, Colbert, Jez, Kolbrill...etc ... And all of them literally know nothing ... Just pushing corporate agenda. On Sony side there is non...except some anonymous leaks on 4chan and Wired article directly from Sony themselves.
 

LordOfChaos

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Pity the old article isn't there - a lot of the justification makes sense. Plus the transition from UI to webrowsing (ie PStore) should be painless and reuse the same codebase - rather than have to maintain a browser, plus extra code for the UI ..
It's less work for them the same way an Electron application is less work for the developer...
...But as a consumer I don't really care lol, it's slow and a slight annoyance every time I use it. It's like the whole era where Facebook was trying to do everything through HTML5 on their Android app and it was way slower than the native iOS one, then they switched to native on Android and it became much faster.
 
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demigod

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Yeah, leaks in the previous gens were few and far between but they were mostly real and based on "real insider info" not attention seeking snowflakes who filled all social media seeking some useless self worth. I even loath their attitude of bait and switch, tbh they are mostly on MS side..you have Brad Sams, Statham, Colbert, Jez, Kolbrill...etc ... And all of them literally know nothing ... Just pushing corporate agenda. On Sony side there is non...except some anonymous leaks on 4chan and Wired article directly from Sony themselves.
Lol, Statham doesn't know shit, he's a huge xbox fanboy. I don't think Colbert knows much either.
 

Aceofspades

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Lol, Statham doesn't know shit, he's a huge xbox fanboy. I don't think Colbert knows much either.
I just hate their tone of giving you the impression that they know something, so when it ends up right they start bragging, if it ends up wrong then they claim ignorance and not knowing anything. Its just annoying
 
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CurryPanda

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Nah, I don't post over there, last one was about Final Fantasy 11. Are they pretending to be insider or something?
I dunno. I got banned from there. Lol
I just hate their tone of giving you the impression that they know something, so when it ends up right they start bragging, if it ends up wrong then they claim ignorance and not knowing anything. Its just annoying
To be fair. Attention seeking insiders, whichever side are annoying. 😑
 

demigod

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I agree with you. That's why Im hoping for a proper leak that can re-ignite discussion and proper speculation since its part of the fun leading to next gen.
Yeah it's annoying. "I know something but I'm not going to tell". Like seriously, shut the F up, nobody wants to hear that.

I dunno. I got banned from there. Lol
I didn't think you'd be banned from there, temp or perma? Pretty sure every one of their member has been temp banned at least once.
 
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CurryPanda

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Insane Metal Insane Metal



So, new dashboard and OS. Nice. Hopefully we get more info about the PS5 UI.

Yeah it's annoying. "I know something but I'm not going to tell". Like seriously, shut the F up, nobody wants to hear that.



I didn't think you'd be banned from there, temp or perma? Pretty sure every one of their member has been temp banned at least once.
It was a permanent ban.
 
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transformer

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I like how EVERYONE believes that XBox 2 is stronger than PS5 based on absolutely nothing. Some """""insider""""" said it and then everyone took it as true.
I know it’s all still speculation and nothing is official. However, did not Phil Spencer comment on Xbox being more powerful? Granted, he could be wrong. But is this really “absolutely nothing” as you claim?
 

vpance

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I know it’s all still speculation and nothing is official. However, did not Phil Spencer comment on Xbox being more powerful? Granted, he could be wrong. But is this really “absolutely nothing” as you claim?
With MS PR, every statement comes with a hidden asterisk. It's been like that for ages, from sales numbers to transistors.
 

Negotiator

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16GB is the minimum i would expect for lockart lol
12GB 192-bit GDDR6 would not surprise me at all. It's gonna be a 1080p-focused console (no 4K assets).

The thing is, Lockhart will be the dev baseline for next-gen 3rd party/multiplatform games, just like XB1 is today for current-gen ones.

This could be limiting RAM and flops-wise, depending on their ambitions (even bigger open world games, persistent worlds etc.)

Regardless of that, it's a smart business move on MS's part. A next-gen console at $249-299 will be very appealing for the masses (as long as people don't mind it being digital-only and they have fast connections already).

The affordable? Maybe, but is none of those next box get the same price as PS5? Thats my guess. The low will be more cheap than PS5 and the hardcore/Xbox X alike will be more expansive. 16GB~12GB for the lower console is not that bad if they want to promove the cloud.
Again, is my guess. 16~12 for the little one.
There's a misunderstanding here: Lockhart will NOT promote the cloud.

Everything will be processed/rendered locally at 1080p 60 fps.

A minimalist designed OS that have fast response is optional for console imo.

Input delays (the time you hit the button until the app/command happens and the action is back to you) needs to be lower than 1s.

You your OS have over 5s to open a message, over 5s to enter in a Party, over 5s to open your friend list, over 5 seconds to open the story, etc.. then you did something wrong with the design of your OS.

Apple should be taken like an example... it is a joy to use the iOS... consoles OS should be like that.
Switch is like that, very fast & lean OS running on an ancient 1 GHz ARM CPU.

MS definitely needs to improve on this area. Sony is somewhere in the middle (not too fast, not too slow either).

Xbox OS runs on UWP (Universal Windows Platform) .. because reasons .. basically the whole thing is a big bloated app running under many layers of abstraction - no surprise it's mud slow like a 1990s java program
The 3 VMs thing isn't something new.

Sony did the same on PS3 with a hypervisor, GameOS and OtherOS.

Does anyone know if the PS4 still uses a VM/GameOS structure?

PS4 front end runs on Webkit (same thing as Google Chrome, sort of), plus a ton of other components.. basically the front end is a offline webpage .. that limits how fast it can be.
Actually it's GPU hardware accelerated WebGL:


Chrome is also hardware accelerated. Most people agree that PS4 has a faster UI vs PS3.

MS uses UWP because compatibility across different platforms - I really don't think they're going to changed - though maybe they can improve the performance it's always going to be at the low end of what is possible.
Zen 2 & SSD should help.

Also there's no way the OS needs more than 1 core, or that much memory, this gen or next gen, but I get used to disappointment - I'm running full windows on a Z3735F atom (1.6GHz tops), and when in the background it downclocks to around 5% utilization @ 0.78GHz - yet it's still doing all the updates, scheduling multitasking, check IO, etc. I've got more stuff open than I ever have on PS4 (plus the crap Win10 preloads in RAM anway)
If one Zen 2 core is equal to 4-5 Jaguar cores and considering the fact they reserve 1-1.5 Jaguar cores for the OS, then I guess 0.5 Zen core should suffice for next-gen.

and the memory usage is still rarely above 1.5GB How the fuck Sony/MS needs 2 cores / 3.5GB+ is a mystery to me..
Have you forgotten the video recording feature?

PS4 records 15 min of 720p30 video, while XB1 records 5 min of 720p30 video.

PS4 video files are easily 1GB. There goes your precious RAM!

We may hate this RAM expenditure, but it has helped immensely in regards to social media/brand awareness (more PS4 consoles sold = more PS4 games released). It's word of mouth advertising.

Uwp is going bye bye
Says who?

At least it's WebGL and so GPU accelerated. But you have a console maker and all the expertise within them resort to that...Running natively within GNM would be so much faster and so much better a user experience, shame they didn't do the extra work for that.
They wanted to make development easier for apps like Netflix etc.

Same for GNMX (DX11-like API that overtaxes the Jaguar CPU). It's all about making their platform more appealing to less skilled devs. Long are the days of Demoscene assembly wizardry, lol.

Plus the transition from UI to webrowsing (ie PStore) should be painless and reuse the same codebase - rather than have to maintain a browser, plus extra code for the UI ..
Yeah, remember the PS3 store? It was a separate web app and it was very slow to load.

PS4 store is seamless and relatively fast.

Personally, I preferred the old school PS3 store (2009-2011).

Hope for a OS more close to the PS3. At leadt visually.
I'm tired of seeing them starting from scratch with every new console.

PS4 PDM is still lacking some PS3 XMB features (like video chat for example). It took a loooooong time to port most PS3 features.

Why should PS5/XB2 start from scratch when there's already a foundation?

Unless they go low-level (mix of ASM/C/C++), then I see no point to become a guinea pig for the 3rd time.
 
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LordOfChaos

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They wanted to make development easier for apps like Netflix etc.

Same for GNMX (DX11-like API that overtaxes the Jaguar CPU). It's all about making their platform more appealing to less skilled devs. Long are the days of Demoscene assembly wizardry, lol.
No reason writing the main UI at a lower layer would have prevented third party apps from going higher level just the same as they do now.

macOS, iOS, Windows, pretty well every OS with a significant graphical user interface does that.