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[ArabianPrynce]

actually that was part of the bet with CrustyBritches minimum 56 enabled CUs

Curious on ur take, whats wrong with the single digit 8-9tflop? dont most nvidia cards sit at that tflop but are more powerful than 10+ tflop amd cards?

If the goal of the gpu is effienceny, more SE's being used than idle isnt good to have a 9tflop machine is very power effiencent?

 

[SonGoku]

#1. I believe that MS and Sony both have final silicon. So even if the 7nm EUV process is being used, it's not going to change what is already on the die. The process is worth waiting for as it's both cost effective and increases performance.

If EUV is to be used both Sony and MS had it on the roadmap from the beginning, so the design was always intended to be on 7nm EUV
The fact RDNA2 is on 7nm+ gives further credibility to the posibility

#2 MS has already shown an approximation of their APU in their Project Scarlett announcement, and it has been estimated to be 380mm2 - 400mm2.

From what i read online, 7nm DUV (regular) is not a very good node for big chips. I think MS might be using 7nm EUV to make a Kaiju
4SE setup with 128ROPs, 384 bit bus on 7nm EUV (20% reduction)

• 72CU chip 379mm2
• 80CU chip 394mm2

Don't mean to sound like a killjoy but tempering our expectations is still probably the best way forward. At least until MS and Sony reveal otherwise.

That's fair, it could indeed go either way
With 7nmEUV 12-14TF is possible but im keeping my expectations around 11TF

 

[CrustyBritches]

I'm working...

Anyway we need 8 badass dudes to go there. I'm leaving the gaf clan tomorrow and going somewhere else. There's no one left online anymore...

Shit. Well just PM me and let me know a good time, I'll get on. We had ~22 active players in the GAF clan, and then they delayed the Raid. Killed the momentum and everybody moved on. My brother kept playing the whole time and he has a killer setup. At the end of missions he's quadrupled my output. Yet, he said him and a bunch of other hardcore guys still haven't cracked the raid on Xbox.

 

[Insane Metal]

Shit. Well just PM me and let me know a good time, I'll get on. We had ~22 active players in the GAF clan, and then they delayed the Raid. Killed the momentum and everybody moved on. My brother kept playing the whole time and he has a killer setup. At the end of missions he's quadrupled my output. Yet, he said him and a bunch of other hardcore guys still haven't cracked the raid on Xbox.

Yeah it's really tough, that's another reason I'm looking for another clan, some people managed to get there. I have a decent build atm.

 

[vpance]

The only monkey wrench in you guys speculation are the trump tarriffs. Current plan is 25 percent, trumps says it can go down to 10 percent if things do go well. The g20 summits where its china and merica are gonna have trade talks. The trade talk will happen in 6/28-29. Pray to god things go well. If tarriffs are 25 percent you can kiss ur 499 ps5 goodbye lol. Sony/ms might end up selling a weak console for higher price.

Sony will move manufacturing back to Japan. MS will be screwed and be stuck with China.

 

[grfunkulus]

Facial animations and such. I think this gen has that pretty down.

Where this gen lacks is shadows and AO. Also global illumination blows on consoles.

But also textures from thst ue demo in don't think are close to what we have.

I agree with all of this. I remember seeing SW battlefront for the first time and thinking those wood textures on the forest moon were real life but those arent close to what is in that demo. AO quality at super high levels will go a long way toward making games feel next gen too. Right now, the difference between consoles and pcs on ultra IS there but consoles making that next leap can ratchet it up so much across the board

 

[SonGoku]

Curious on ur take, whats wrong with the single digit 8-9tflop? dont most nvidia cards sit at that tflop but are more powerful than 10+ tflop amd cards?

This is AMD we are discussing no Turing
Remember both 4K and RT are big resource hogs, for a proper unshackled next gen leap RTX2080 levels of performance should be the target.
To hit that target with Navi we need at least 11TF.

If they go with 8-9TF machines, the GPU will be the weak link of the gen instead of the CPU and devs should target 1440p

Sony will move manufacturing back to Japan. MS will be screwed and be stuck with China.

But arent the consoles made on Foxcon/TSMC? Taiwan isn't considered part of China right?

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Sony will move manufacturing back to Japan. MS will be screwed and be stuck with China.

I mean how confident are you in that, wouldnt the prices still increase though? how much cheaper is it for sony to manufacture in japan.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

This is AMD we are discussing no Turing
Remember both 4K and RT are big resource hogs, for a proper unshackled next gen leap RTX2080 levels of performance should be the target.
To hit that target with Navi we need at least 11TF.

If they go with 8-9TF machines, the GPU will be the weak link of the gen instead of the CPU and devs should target 1440p

But arent the consoles made on Foxcon/TSMC? Taiwan isn't considered part of China right?

if this true then thats dissapointing, it seems like we cant win lmao. The main reason i was hyped for the upcoming gen is full balance. meaning all main aspects of the console are good. good cpu, good gpu, and ssd. every gen one of these are always bottlenecks. some gen the cpu is good, the gpu is ehh, one gen its cpu is meh and the gpu is good. we just cant win lmao

 

[Imtjnotu]

I agree with all of this. I remember seeing SW battlefront for the first time and thinking those wood textures on the forest moon were real life but those arent close to what is in that demo. AO quality at super high levels will go a long way toward making games feel next gen too. Right now, the difference between consoles and pcs on ultra IS there but consoles making that next leap can ratchet it up so much across the board

That level on endor was the first time I thought textures this gen were stellar. I know frostbite gets alot of hate but it is gorgeous.

Of real time full GI van be put into affect I think next gen at 4k60 will be phenomenal. Don't care about rtx at the moment

 

[vpance]

But arent the APUs made on Foxcon/TSMC? Taiwan isn't considered part of China right?

If they use Samsung 7nm+ then they would be made in SKorea.

I mean how confident are you in that, wouldnt the prices still increase though? how much cheaper is it for sony to manufacture in japan.

Not super confident, lol. Just wanted to make a flippant comment.

I'm not sure but I think PS3 20GB was their last console that was made in Japan. They probably sold off a lot of their factory capacity by now so it's not like they could make even close to a majority of them in Japan anymore.

But the console themselves would still be made in China

Yeah we were just speculating if they moved all manufacturing out of China. The APU shouldn't be a factor since they aren't made there in either case.

 

[Imtjnotu]

If they use Samsung 7nm+ then they would be made in SKorea.

But the console themselves would still be made in China

 

[Mass Shift]

If EUV is to be used both Sony and MS had it on the roadmap from the beginning, so the design was always intended to be on 7nm EUV
The fact RDNA2 is on 7nm+ gives further credibility to the posibility

From what i read online, 7nm DUV (regular) is not a very good node for big chips. I think MS might be using 7nm EUV to make a Kaiju
4SE setup with 128ROPs, 384 bit bus on 7nm EUV (20% reduction)

• 72CU chip 379mm2
• 80CU chip 394mm2

That's fair, it could indeed go either way
With 7nmEUV 12-14TF is possible but im keeping my expectations around 11TF

So am I.

But I'm not going to freak out if we don't. Despite the power of the Pro and the 1X, we haven't really had games that take full advantage of the breadth of their gpus. MS and Sony never allowed it. So in essence we leap frogged past 4TF - 6TF and we never experienced anything. One of the reason why another mid-gen refresh leaves me less than enthused.

So if it's 8TF - 9TF I'm going to embrace it.

 

[Burrito Bandito]

Sony will move manufacturing back to Japan. MS will be screwed and be stuck with China.

The most likely scenario is that Trump is simply using this as a bargaining chip (as he always does) and as usual he will get a good chunk of what he wanted from China and the tariffs will never see the light of day.

On a related note, who actually manufactures the consoles? Isnt foxconn building a plant in the US currently? Or do they only do iphones?

 

[SonGoku]

But the console themselves would still be made in China

Taiwan isn't part of china, USA is allies with Taiwan

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Taiwan isn't part of china, USA is allies with Taiwan

So why are console manufactures worried. isnt tmnc made in taiwan?

 

[Imtjnotu]

Taiwan isn't part of china, USA is allies with Taiwan

Sony uses their Japan plant and foxconn to make ps4. The ones not made in Japan come from China. So unless Sony plans to ship them back to Japan to then ship to the US, I don't see a cheap way around this

 

[SonGoku]

The ones not made in Japan come from China.

Taiwan=/China
That's why im confused

So why are console manufactures worried. isnt tmnc made in taiwan?

Thats what i want to know!

 

[vpance]

The most likely scenario is that Trump is simply using this as a bargaining chip (as he always does) and as usual he will get a good chunk of what he wanted from China and the tariffs will never see the light of day.

On a related note, who actually manufactures the consoles? Isnt foxconn building a plant in the US currently? Or do they only do iphones?

Yeah I don't think it'll go through either. If it does I think it would hurt MS a lot more, since their main market is US. Good thing all 3 makers came together to protest it.

Foxconn in Wisconsin are only making small screens. No matter what happens Foxconn in China will still be used. We'd have major shortages if they didn't.

 

[vpance]

Taiwan=/China
That's why im confused

Thats what i want to know!

Assembled in and exported from China is the key I think. Where the individual parts are made probably doesn't matter that much. The situation is similar to cars being made in Mexico and they also have the threat of 25% tariffs.

 

[SonGoku]

Assembled in and exported from China is the key I think. Where the individual parts are made probably doesn't matter that much. The situation is similar to cars being made in Mexico and they also have the threat of 25% tariffs.

Then it isn't a big deal since consoles are made in Foxcon (Taiwan) right?

 

[vpance]

Then it isn't a big deal since consoles are made in Foxcon (Taiwan) right?

Foxconn HQ is in Taiwan, but most of their factories are in China. Consoles shipping in the millions will surely be made at the Shenzen location.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Foxconn HQ is in Taiwan, but most of their factories are in China. Consoles shipping in the millions will surely be made at the Shenzen location.

This is exactly what I was saying. The only way I can see around this is if Sony were to ship them back to Japan and then here. Which again is expensive af

MS is just as screwed shipping from China to here directly

 

[SonGoku]

New PS5 Patent Says One of the Most Annoying Gamer Gripes Could Disappear.

https://www.inverse.com/article/56841-ps5-sony-patent-playstation-5-loading-screens Looks like the PS 5 will attempt to make loading screens a thing of the past. This is according to a recent continuation patent filed by Sony and which was granted by the United States Patent and Trademark...

www.neogaf.com

Sony’s new system achieves this by splitting games up into a kind of jigsaw puzzle. Whenever a player steps into one of the pieces, or areas, the adjacent pieces will load automatically in the background in case the player chooses to travel in that direction.

A loading screen means one of a few different things. Sometimes, it means that the console is transferring data from the hard disk memory to the console’s random access memory (RAM), which may be what renders your graphics. It might also mean the console is freeing up used RAM to use in the next level or stage.

24GBGDDR6 confirmed? even 32GB...

Foxconn HQ is in Taiwan, but most of their factories are in China. Consoles shipping in the millions will surely be made at the Shenzen location.

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[SonGoku]

Mass Shift TeamGhobad

This is very compelling info in favor of 7nm+

 

[bitbydeath]

Sony will move manufacturing back to Japan. MS will be screwed and be stuck with China.

Apple was looking into moving out of China and into Taiwan. Maybe Sony, MS and Ninty will follow suit.

I see there was a whole discussion about this already...

 

[Kururu]

So you have got a Zen 2 Apu with Navi you and under clocked it, my mistake. Also I think it's pretty clear to all that I have nailed the last ten pages of your posts to a t.

You clown.

Please note it's only xbots that give a damn, Sony whores, apart from those that like console wars with planks like you, don't really care as they know it's all about the games.

For sure if I get a next gen console it will be a playstation (thanks for game pass Microsoft rendering your console useless to me) but I dare say both will struggle to keep up with what I have now, never mind when I upgrade in a few months.

Welcome to NeoGAF. Just a friendly reminder that discussions about almost anything can be heated, but holster that anger when it comes to name calling or personal attacks.

 

[rəddəM]

The real question nobody is asking:
How many Ray Tracing TFLOPS?

 

[Mass Shift]

The real question nobody is asking:
How many Ray Tracing TFLOPS?

Seriously, do you really think we're capable of dealing with another type of performance metric? We're barely dealing with our expectations of TFLOPS as it is.

 

[SonGoku]

How many Ray Tracing TFLOPS?

ALL OF THEM

 

[Fake]

WTF8

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The real question nobody is asking:
How many Ray Tracing TFLOPS?

I know.

PS5 and Scarett will be $400 16TF beasts where each console is subsidized $300 by Sony and MS.

Oh, but the system dedicates 10TF to ray tracing.

 

[Negotiator]

No, no it isnt. 3.10mm² per core + cache. Check AMDs source.

Not a fair comparison.

Do you also remove L2/L3 die space from Zen 2 chiplets?

If MS goes with 14Gbps memory speed while Sony goes with 16Gbps

Why would they use different DRAM chips?

PS4 Pro and XB1X have set a historical precedent by using the exact same type of GDDR5 (6.8 Gbps). Have you forgotten that? There will be no GDDR5 vs DDR3 clusterfuck this time around, both consoles will be more similar than ever before.

Also, your "perfect mem bw" theory (448GB/s (GPU) + 64GB/s (CPU)) is a bit off because of this (it affects EVERY architecture with unified memory):

Sony PS4 Effective GPU Bandwidth is 140 GB/s Not 176 GB/s - Disproportionate CPU and GPU Scaling

New information reveals that the actual bandwidth of the Sony PS4 is 140GB/s instead of 176GB/s as previously stated.

wccftech.com

Exactly, not to mention, both Sony and Microsoft's designs need to be complete at this stage.

PS4 final APU dev kits were delivered in January 2013:

ORBIS Devkits Roadmap/Types

Sony and Microsoft have had a lot of work with Orbis and Durango. Create a new hardware it’s a long running process, you have to build different versions of hardware and make changes along the core until the last version, the closer one to the retail product. We have created an article with...

vgleaks.com

And, the die size/power consumption is never disclosed in the docs as it's not relevant when developing games.

Power consumption can easily be measured with a watt-o-meter.

Then again, I don't think we'll see the final APU chips before January 2020, so gotta have patience for another 6+ months.

I want Cerny to come to stage and say: HBM3

Booom megaton

I can settle for HBM2 since I feel that power and die savings are both worth the extra cost of the memory.

HBM3 will be the first, affordable iteration, since it uses an organic interposer (vs silicon, which is a lot more expensive):

HBM3: Cheaper, up to 64GB on-package, and terabytes-per-second bandwidth

Plus, Samsung unveils GDDR6 and "low cost" HBM technologies.

arstechnica.com

Samsung aims to conquer the memory market with HBM3 - ExtremeTech

Samsung wants to push HBM3 to the high end of the market and adapt the technology to serve lower-cost segments more effectively. Combined, the two approaches could revolutionize memory bandwidth in the next few years.

www.extremetech.com

Apparently it will be available sometime in 2019 or 2020. Not sure if it can be mass produced or not, at best maybe Sony could use 32GB.

Personally, I'm sticking to 24GB GDDR6 384-bit, since it's a safe bet. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong by a 2013-style megaton though.

Wow this video just destroys the idea that Sony is good at hardware design. Mark Cerny’s reputation just took a huge hit.

This video just rips apart the design of the PS4. SATA on the blue ray but not HDD we always knew but not why.. its obvious now its likely due to the crazy pointless southbridge design. Even with the source code for thier own operating system this would be a pain to debug and manage. Highly likely Sony has ditched this design as it added little ( just power saving mode) and make things way more complex amd slower.

This video pretty much confirms that the PS4 IS built on windows compatible parts ( even the SOC south bridge chip is itself windows compatible ).. its the horrible integration layer that would cause issues booting windows.

Sony will have ditched this custom pointless slow integration layer this time and so the PS5 probably will boot linux or windows easily.

Thanks for the video .. that was a laugh!

You're welcome.

Calm your tits though, we don't know if it was Cerny who designed the Aeolia southbridge. Marvell was involved with that.

AFAIK, Cerny is not a chip designer per se:

I've removed the names for anonymity reasons, so don't ask me who that guy is.

I'll just tell you that he has a lot of contacts in the silicon industry.

Do double digit flops really make that much of a difference. Dont most nvidia cards sit at 9tflops and do better than amd 12-13??

nVidia cards have this kind of magic, which Navi doesn't have (still waiting for that "Maxwell sauce"):

On NVIDIA's Tile-Based Rendering

Looking back on NVIDIA's GDC presentation, perhaps one of the most interesting aspects approached was the implementation of tile-based rendering on NVIDIA's post-Maxwell architectures. This has been an adaptation of typically mobile approaches to graphics rendering which keeps their specific...

www.techpowerup.com

I mean how confident are you in that, wouldnt the prices still increase though? how much cheaper is it for sony to manufacture in japan.

Nintendo is a much smaller company than either Sony or MS and they have already found a solution:

Nintendo starts producing new Switch models outside China to fend off trade war

The consoles failed to make an appearance at E3 but could launch soon

www.theverge.com

I'm not sure but I think PS3 20GB was their last console that was made in Japan.

Is your PS4 Pro made in China or Japan?

We had this discussion when the original PS4 came out. Just go my PS4 Pro and it's made in China, my original PS4 was made in Japan. Just curious to see if there are any Pro's from Japan, check the bottom of your box.

www.neogaf.com

The real question nobody is asking:
How many Ray Tracing TFLOPS?

I think you meant to say Giga Rays.

They're not gonna make use of FP32 shader ALUs for SW RT. SonGoku posted a relevant pic straight from AMD.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Not a fair comparison.

Do you also remove L2/L3 die space from Zen 2 chiplets?

Why would they use different DRAM chips?

PS4 Pro and XB1X have set a historical precedent by using the exact same type of GDDR5 (6.8 Gbps). Have you forgotten that? There will be no GDDR5 vs DDR3 clusterfuck this time around, both consoles will be more similar than ever before.

Also, your "perfect mem bw" theory (448GB/s (GPU) + 64GB/s (CPU)) is a bit off because of this (it affects EVERY architecture with unified memory):

Sony PS4 Effective GPU Bandwidth is 140 GB/s Not 176 GB/s - Disproportionate CPU and GPU Scaling

New information reveals that the actual bandwidth of the Sony PS4 is 140GB/s instead of 176GB/s as previously stated.

wccftech.com

PS4 final APU dev kits were delivered in January 2013:

ORBIS Devkits Roadmap/Types

Sony and Microsoft have had a lot of work with Orbis and Durango. Create a new hardware it’s a long running process, you have to build different versions of hardware and make changes along the core until the last version, the closer one to the retail product. We have created an article with...

vgleaks.com

Power consumption can easily be measured with a watt-o-meter.

Then again, I don't think we'll see the final APU chips before January 2020, so gotta have patience for another 6+ months.



HBM3 will be the first, affordable iteration, since it uses an organic interposer (vs silicon, which is a lot more expensive):

HBM3: Cheaper, up to 64GB on-package, and terabytes-per-second bandwidth

Plus, Samsung unveils GDDR6 and "low cost" HBM technologies.

arstechnica.com

Samsung aims to conquer the memory market with HBM3 - ExtremeTech

Samsung wants to push HBM3 to the high end of the market and adapt the technology to serve lower-cost segments more effectively. Combined, the two approaches could revolutionize memory bandwidth in the next few years.

www.extremetech.com

Apparently it will be available sometime in 2019 or 2020. Not sure if it can be mass produced or not, at best maybe Sony could use 32GB.

Personally, I'm sticking to 24GB GDDR6 384-bit, since it's a safe bet. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong by a 2013-style megaton though.


You're welcome.

Calm your tits though, we don't know if it was Cerny who designed the Aeolia southbridge. Marvell was involved with that.

AFAIK, Cerny is not a chip designer per se:

I've removed the names for anonymity reasons, so don't ask me who that guy is.

I'll just tell you that he has a lot of contacts in the silicon industry.


nVidia cards have this kind of magic, which Navi doesn't have (still waiting for that "Maxwell sauce"):

On NVIDIA's Tile-Based Rendering

Looking back on NVIDIA's GDC presentation, perhaps one of the most interesting aspects approached was the implementation of tile-based rendering on NVIDIA's post-Maxwell architectures. This has been an adaptation of typically mobile approaches to graphics rendering which keeps their specific...

www.techpowerup.com

Nintendo is a much smaller company than either Sony or MS and they have already found a solution:

Nintendo starts producing new Switch models outside China to fend off trade war

The consoles failed to make an appearance at E3 but could launch soon

www.theverge.com

Is your PS4 Pro made in China or Japan?

We had this discussion when the original PS4 came out. Just go my PS4 Pro and it's made in China, my original PS4 was made in Japan. Just curious to see if there are any Pro's from Japan, check the bottom of your box.

www.neogaf.com

I think you meant to say Giga Rays.

They're not gonna make use of FP32 shader ALUs for SW RT. SonGoku posted a relevant pic straight from AMD.

All that link states is that the final devkits were closer to the retail console. Meaning that the retail console already has the proper APU at this point. So basically, yes the chip design needs to be done at this point so they can start refining the devkits to get closer the final version of the console instead of using various prototype parts.

 

[Negotiator]

All that link states is that the final devkits were closer to the retail console. Meaning that the retail console already has the proper APU at this point. So basically, yes the chip design needs to be done at this point so they can start refining the devkits to get closer the final version of the console instead of using various prototype parts.

Not really.

Early dev kits are usually PCs with off-the-shelf discrete CPUs & GPUs:

R10 Board (with special BIOS) assemble in a Generic PC

• Requires Windows 7 64 bit edition
• Recommend
• Sandy Bridge (Intel) or Bulldozer (AMD)
• Minimum 8 GB RAM (system memory)
• 650 Watt PSU
• VS2010 SP1
• DWM (Desktop Windows Manager) must be turned off
• Application will use Windows services for everything except GPU interface
• SCE will provide “Gnm”, a custom GPU interface

DVKT-KS000K (“Initial 1”)

• Runs Orbis OS
• CPU: Bulldozer 8-core, 1.6 Ghz
• Graphics Card: R10 with special BIOS
• RAM: 8 GB (system memory)
• BD Drive
• HDD: 2.5 ” 160 GB
• Network Controller
• Custom South Bridge allows access to controller prototypes

This is the APU-based (SoC) dev kit:

DVKT-KS000K
SoC Based Devkit

• Available January 2013
• CPU: 8-core Jaguar
• GPU: Liverpool GPU
• RAM: unified 8 GB for devkit (4 GB for the retail console)
• Subsystem: HDD, Network Controller, BD Drive, Bluetooth Controller, WLAN and HDMI (up to 1980×1080@3D)
• Analog Outputs: Audio, Composite Video
• Connection to Host: USB 3.0 (targeting over 200 MB/s),
• ORBIS Dualshock
• Dual Camera

There's a reason early PS5/SNEK dev kits have discrete Ryzen CPUs & Vega GPUs (which is not the same thing as a Zen 2/Navi APU).

 

[ResilientBanana]

Not really.

Early dev kits are usually PCs with off-the-shelf discrete CPUs & GPUs:

R10 Board (with special BIOS) assemble in a Generic PC

• Requires Windows 7 64 bit edition
• Recommend
• Sandy Bridge (Intel) or Bulldozer (AMD)
• Minimum 8 GB RAM (system memory)
• 650 Watt PSU
• VS2010 SP1
• DWM (Desktop Windows Manager) must be turned off
• Application will use Windows services for everything except GPU interface
• SCE will provide “Gnm”, a custom GPU interface

DVKT-KS000K (“Initial 1”)

• Runs Orbis OS
• CPU: Bulldozer 8-core, 1.6 Ghz
• Graphics Card: R10 with special BIOS
• RAM: 8 GB (system memory)
• BD Drive
• HDD: 2.5 ” 160 GB
• Network Controller
• Custom South Bridge allows access to controller prototypes

This is the APU-based (SoC) dev kit:

DVKT-KS000K
SoC Based Devkit

• Available January 2013
• CPU: 8-core Jaguar
• GPU: Liverpool GPU
• RAM: unified 8 GB for devkit (4 GB for the retail console)
• Subsystem: HDD, Network Controller, BD Drive, Bluetooth Controller, WLAN and HDMI (up to 1980×1080@3D)
• Analog Outputs: Audio, Composite Video
• Connection to Host: USB 3.0 (targeting over 200 MB/s),
• ORBIS Dualshock
• Dual Camera

There's a reason early PS5/SNEK dev kits have discrete Ryzen CPUs & Vega GPUs (which is not the same thing as a Zen 2/Navi APU).

Right, because the SoC is being tweaked right now and the final design is complete. The devkit won’t have have the SoC until closer to launch or maybe even after.

 

[Negotiator]

Right, because the SoC is being tweaked right now and the final design is complete. The devkit won’t have have the SoC until closer to launch or maybe even after.

My point is that we won't see the final APU-based dev kits until January 2020 (November 2020 release date for retail consoles). Gotta endure another 6+ months of madness.

It was the same with the PS3 (January 2006-Nov 2006) and the PS4 (January 2013-Nov 2013).

 

[ArabianPrynce]

Looking at PS4 hardware development in interview with Mark Cerny
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/meet-the-guy-who-engineered-the-playstation-4/

"Some of the tech in the PlayStation 4 didn’t exist even a few years ago, at least not on a level that made it practical for consumers. When you first started designing the hardware, how did you plan around tech that may not have been available yet?

We had six years to make the hardware, and it only takes about four years to do the actual engineering, so we had two years to figure out what we wanted to make the PlayStation 4. And we looked at a huge variety of technologies, including some that were just coming into possibility. In the end we decided that we could hit sort of a sweet spot by working with AMD’s PC technology, the CPU and GPU, and then aggressively enhancing the GPU for that long-term growth."


"Did the hardware development determine the release date, or did the release date determine the development cycle?

We’d been targeting Holiday 2013 for many years, but with hardware, you never quite know if you’re going to be able to reach the date. If you screw up something in your main custom chip, you could easily find that it takes six months to fix. And then you end up out of your targeted launch year."

"So you finalized the hardware two years ago?

We finalized the spec of the hardware. The process of creating the hardware is about four years. Two years into that it’s locked enough that you can start talking about all this other stuff that’s going to surround it. It’s not like your work actually finishes at that time, or that was any particular milestone. But it was sort of an “ok guys, we know what the hardware is now.”

If we assume that this development process also applies to PS5 and maybe Scarlett, will this enable us to narrow down the possibilities for next gen console hardware in the light of AMD's market availability for RDNA 1, RDNA 2 and Ray Tracing architecture?

This approach could be the hint that sony is looking towards 7nm euv

SonGoku N Negotiator

 

[SonGoku]

If we assume that this development process also applies to PS5 and maybe Scarlett, will this enable us to narrow down the possibilities for next gen console hardware in the light of AMD's market availability for RDNA 1, RDNA 2 and Ray Tracing architecture?

AMD had all of these technologies on their roadmap well before nextgen started engineering development, late 2020 launch accommodates for RDNA2 but ultimately its up to MS/Sony to decide their own targets.

With hw rt present in both consoles i think rdna2 is all but confirmed at this point
I've found this bit very interesting

with hardware, you never quite know if you’re going to be able to reach the date. If you screw up something in your main custom chip, you could easily find that it takes six months to fix. And then you end up out of your targeted launch year."

 

[INC]

PS5 benchmark unveiled and, holy moly, Xbox Two has a hell of a fight coming

PlayStation 5 looks like it's going to be the powerhouse console loyal Sony gamers have craved

www.t3.com

Click bait I presume

 

[Tommy Fisher]

Some Interesting stuff:

I was listening to an xbox podcast(haha i enjoy listening to differing opinions) and they had a 3rd party developer on the show.

they asked him if the benchmark result for gonazlo/PS5 seems possible to him ,,, he said based on what he has worked on ,definitely yes.

He said he wont say which one is more powerful but there is definately a noticeable power gap between PS5 and scarlett for the trained eye but non trained eye might not notice it.he didnt want to say which one has the edge .

for anyone interested , it starts at 1:27:00 :



Thanks to gamer17

This isn’t anything different from what Reiner said and the Gonzalo news from before. Seems like PS5 is more powerful than Scarlett in a noticable way!

 

[Gamernyc78]

for anyone interested , it starts at 1:27:00 :



Thanks to gamer17

This isn’t anything different from what Reiner said and the Gonzalo news from before. Seems like PS5 is more powerful than Scarlett in a noticable way!

Still up in the air but I'm going to laugh if true and ppl start the "oh but Anaconda is more efficient and omg dx13 or whatever is going to be a game changer" bs lol to compensate like all the dribble and bs that came out this gen with og Xbox and og ps4.

 

[ResilientBanana]

for anyone interested , it starts at 1:27:00 :



Thanks to gamer17

This isn’t anything different from what Reiner said and the Gonzalo news from before. Seems like PS5 is more powerful than Scarlett in a noticable way!

So we're trusting crapgamerreviews with a title like that? The don't know anything more than this forum does.

 

[quest]

for anyone interested , it starts at 1:27:00 :



Thanks to gamer17

This isn’t anything different from what Reiner said and the Gonzalo news from before. Seems like PS5 is more powerful than Scarlett in a noticable way!

It will be a fun inside story when it comes out one day how scarlet got screwed up so badly. So if ps5 is 8tf xbox is 7tf for the 30% reiner. I can see why MS did not try to retain the person who was in charge.

 

[ResilientBanana]

It will be a fun inside story when it comes out one day how scarlet got screwed up so badly. So if ps5 is 8tf xbox is 7tf for the 30% reiner. I can see why MS did not try to retain the person who was in charge.

Who said they didn't?

 

[Darius87]

i think sony could only implement ray-collision to object hw to silicon level and everything else will run on cpu or gpu, unlike ms could do every operation on dedicated ray-tracing hw.
that way ps5 would be more flexible and most likely more powerful given that both companies use pretty much same sized apu.

 

[TeamGhobad]

im buying a new tv and im wondering will nexnex gen be 8k native you think, or should i just go with a 4k?

 

[LordOfChaos]

Seriously, do you really think we're capable of dealing with another type of performance metric? We're barely dealing with our expectations of TFLOPS as it is.

Enter 142 pages of Gigaray calculations

Actually I do hope both will say them outright, otherwise it would be hard to compare the RT hardware across vendors.

im buying a new tv and im wondering will nexnex gen be 8k native you think, or should i just go with a 4k?

It's 99% just going to be so that it can output the UI to those TVs natively at all. Part of why we got the 8.5 gen refreshes was because 4K TVs got cheap, they just want to future proof for display tech, but AAA games won't be running anywhere near 8K on this hardware. Maybe a few indie nearly 2D games could.

 

[Fake]

Cheap 4K tvs are terrible btw.

 

[mckmas8808]

The only monkey wrench in you guys speculation are the trump tarriffs. Current plan is 25 percent, trumps says it can go down to 10 percent if things do go well. The g20 summits where its china and merica are gonna have trade talks. The trade talk will happen in 6/28-29. Pray to god things go well. If tarriffs are 25 percent you can kiss ur 499 ps5 goodbye lol. Sony/ms might end up selling a weak console for higher price.

These tariff talks is so stupid. 25% would kill our economy in 2020 and that's an election year. NO WAY Trump does that.

Spoiler: Hmmmm....

Unless he's trying to lose the election on purpose.

I don't think games will look like this in-game unless they are 1440p, but I would love to be surprised.

1440p with Checkerboard Rendering with those graphics would be awesome in my book!