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[R600]

The thing is, Gonzalo with just 8.3TF GPU would never beat vega64 score, and especially considering PS5 was using unoptimized drivers (unlike vega 64) for windows and 3dmark. Gonzalo 3Dmark score suggest at least 10TF GPU in PS5, therefore your 8.3TF estimations must be wrong.

We dont know how RDNA acts in syntetic benchmarks. We do know Vega56 ~ 2070 in 3DMark, yet 2070 is much faster GPU on average.

One thing I saw few days ago was syntetic bench with 5700 being 3% of RTX 2070, yet its only big Navi XT, with 2TF more that is competing with 2070.

My point is, 20K is great score, but with Zen2 6 core @ 3.4GHZ beating same specced PC with 2700X, it might be that Zen2 scores a bit higher then old Zen+ and AMD continues with solid synthetic scores that get outperformes in actual games.

 

[CrustyBritches]

So do people think Gonzalo is PS5 or not? When Digital Foundry suggested that it was plausible it was PS5 and could be ~8.3TF(40CU, 4 disable for yields at 1.8GHz) a lot of people scoffed. Now that Gonzalo has decent scores in FS there's a shifty appropriation going on. Personally, I think DF has been on point the whole time.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

I think this answer from Lisa is underrated. Has she said AMD is a "deep partner" with MS? And Sony has done "very specific optimizations" to their Navi GPU? Can it really be THAT different from Xbox Scarlett's?

HSA + HBM probably falls under "specific optimizations" before we even get to integrating RT.

 

[Munki]

So do people think Gonzalo is PS5 or not? When Digital Foundry suggested that it was plausible it was PS5 and could be ~8.3TF(40CU, 4 disable for yields at 1.8GHz) a lot of people scoffed. Now that Gonzalo has decent scores in FS there's a shifty appropriation going on. Personally, I think DF has been on point the whole time.

This place is a never-ending cycle of shifting goalposts.

 

[CrustyBritches]

This place is a never-ending cycle of shifting goalposts.

 

[R600]

So do people think Gonzalo is PS5 or not? When Digital Foundry suggested that it was plausible it was PS5 and could be ~8.3TF(40CU, 4 disable for yields at 1.8GHz) a lot of people scoffed. Now that Gonzalo has decent scores in FS there's a shifty appropriation going on. Personally, I think DF has been on point the whole time.

They said multiple times "Some may be disappointed by TF number. Always assume worst with consoles."

In any case, I think DF got their info from APISAK and Komachi (there is tweet chain between the 3) and they saw it actually could very well be console. They took 1.8GHZ and said "ok that cant be 44+ CU part"

As we saw from E3, Navi is still powerhungry and even XT version does not touch 10TF at 225W so its pretty much not happening.

 

[TeamGhobad]

i think these consoles are gonna be water cooled.

 

[Munki]

i think these consoles are gonna be water cooled.

We see it mobile phones these days, so I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Aceofspades]

So do people think Gonzalo is PS5 or not? When Digital Foundry suggested that it was plausible it was PS5 and could be ~8.3TF(40CU, 4 disable for yields at 1.8GHz) a lot of people scoffed. Now that Gonzalo has decent scores in FS there's a shifty appropriation going on. Personally, I think DF has been on point the whole time.

Its still up in the air, the thing with DF is that they said PS5 is will be 8TF GCN while Anaconda will be 12TF or they implied that Sony wouldn't want to talk Teraflops knowing what they know!
Now they shifted the whole narrative to "TF is not important"
Richard is simply a rapid MS fanboy.

 

[CrustyBritches]

R R600

For sure, but DF actually took time to reach out to Apisak and put in their due diligence. That was months ago, and people still say it's not possible for Sony hardware to be used on Windows with 3DMark.

I've seen some of the same people go from upwards of 80CUs and 14TF, and now back down to 8-9TF, but "it's the same, but different". Although every motherfucker knows we were speculating on Navi and assuming the architectural jump and node jump in the speculation. AdoredTV was the basis of most early speculation so things were way too optimistic. We never got our $250 150W Vega 64. Shit's probably gonna sell for $379-400 and pull 180W+.

 

[R600]

Its still up in the air, the thing with DF is that they said PS5 is will be 8TF GCN while Anaconda will be 12TF or they implied that Sony wouldn't want to talk Teraflops knowing what they know!
Now they shifted the whole narrative to "TF is not important"
Richard is simply a rapid MS fanboy.

Where did they imply this? Got to say, I only saw them mentioning TFs for next gen consoles (thats both) in a bit subdue manner.

 

[R600]

R R600

For sure, but DF actually took time to reach out to Apisak and put in their due diligence. That was months ago, and people still say it's not possible for Sony hardware to be used on Windows with 3DMark.

I've seen some of the same people go from upwards of 80CUs and 14TF, and now back down to 8-9TF, but "it's the same, but different". Although every motherfucker knows we were speculating on Navi and assuming the architectural jump and node jump in the speculation. AdoredTV was the basis of most early speculation so things were way too optimistic. We never got our $250 150W Vega 64. Shit's probably gonna sell for $379-400.

Yea if we pretend AdoredTV leak was rightm we can except 12-13TF. Since AdoredTV had meltdown regarding Navi, Ill asume we are safely in single digits

 

[Aceofspades]

Where did they imply this? Got to say, I only saw them mentioning TFs for next gen consoles (thats both) in a bit subdue manner.

Their video the next day of Cerny interview...they were downplaying PS5 specs despite having none . They also said something along the lines of Sony wouldn't want to go with MS in TF war knowing what we know...or something like that.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Yea if we pretend AdoredTV leak was rightm we can except 12-13TF. Since AdoredTV had meltdown regarding Navi, Ill asume we are safely in single digits

Hardly anyone has been respecting the power consumption limit that consoles have, nor have they been working off power consumption at all. Mostly die size estimates and rumor mongering. DF simply looks at Xbox One X peak power consumption in their own tests, then checks new Navi and says bingo. GPU is 252mm² and Zen 2 8-core chiplet is 70-80mm², "there's your APU right there". Personally, I think people are making it way too complex, but maybe we'll get 220W+ power consumption in consoles and I'll eat my hat. We'll see.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Its still up in the air, the thing with DF is that they said PS5 is will be 8TF GCN while Anaconda will be 12TF or they implied that Sony wouldn't want to talk Teraflops knowing what they know!
Now they shifted the whole narrative to "TF is not important"
Richard is simply a rapid MS fanboy.

You know, Microsoft pays those bills and gives them the inside scoops and interviews so I wouldn't say rabid just coerced

 

[KlickKlack]

Their video the next day of Cerny interview...they were downplaying PS5 specs despite having none . They also said something along the lines of Sony wouldn't want to go with MS in TF war knowing what we know...or something like that.

LSD

 

[DJ12]

1) 13TF Navi would be gigantic

Speculation on your behalf, there is a rumour that the 13E8 at the end of 'Gonzalo' actually refers to tflops and we all "know" gonzalo "is" the PS5 chip and "is" ~320mm

2) It would suck ~300W

Speculation on your behalf, unless of course you have tested an underclocked APU in a custom console environment on 7mn or 7mn+?

3) It would be faster then 2080, perhaps matching 2080TI

Doubtful, if a 5700RT is bascially a match for a 2070 (Approx 2 tflops less), it would need 12+ tflops to match a 2080, and north of 15 tflops to match the 2080ti

4) No one would be able to know target specs and die sizes. This is not something that is provided to devs, you can be sure of it.

Yet you seem to be basing your entire opinion on the leak that says Scarellet is 380+ and PS5 is ~320 (despite this falling exactly into range of PS5 being on 7nm+)

I think we all get it now, you are hoping that Scarlett is bigger and more powerful. Fancy giving it a rest until more information is released. Virtually every post of yours over the last 10 pages has been the same post reworded. It's almost as though you believe that saying the same thing over and over while appearing confident will actually lead people to believe the narrative. This rarely works when you only evidence is purely what you hope and ebelieve is the case from the partial code you are actually analysing. What if all along, the 13E8 does mean it's a 13 tflop part, and all this time you've been arguing otherwise.

Imagine the egg on your face.

Enough is enough surely.

 

[R600]

Their video the next day of Cerny interview...they were downplaying PS5 specs despite having none . They also said something along the lines of Sony wouldn't want to go with MS in TF war knowing what we know...or something like that.

So I just listened to that reaction video, and no, they said Sony, nor MS, will want to indulge in TF war this time around and would rather keep quite on the entire matter. Which ties well with realiatic expectation of Navi being too hot and too big for 10+TF range.

 

[R600]

Speculation on your behalf, there is a rumour that the 13E8 at the end of 'Gonzalo' actually refers to tflops and we all "know" gonzalo "is" the PS5 chip and "is" ~320mm

Speculation on your behalf, unless of course you have tested an underclocked APU in a custom console environment on 7mn or 7mn+?

Doubtful, if a 5700RT is bascially a match for a 2070 (Approx 2 tflops less), it would need 12+ tflops to match a 2080, and north of 15 tflops to match the 2080ti

Yet you seem to be basing your entire opinion on the leak that says Scarellet is 380+ and PS5 is ~320 (despite this falling exactly into range of PS5 being on 7nm+)

I think we all get it now, you are hoping that Scarlett is bigger and more powerful. Fancy giving it a rest until more information is released. Virtually every post of yours over the last 10 pages has been the same post reworded. It's almost as though you believe that saying the same thing over and over while appearing confident will actually lead people to believe the narrative. This rarely works when you only evidence is purely what you hope and ebelieve is the case from the partial code you are actually analysing. What if all along, the 13E8 does mean it's a 13 tflop part, and all this time you've been arguing otherwise.

Imagine the egg on your face.

Enough is enough surely.

Boy are you having a meltdown. And no, you are wrong on all accounts.

 

[demigod]

Speculation on your behalf, there is a rumour that the 13E8 at the end of 'Gonzalo' actually refers to tflops and we all "know" gonzalo "is" the PS5 chip and "is" ~320mm

Speculation on your behalf, unless of course you have tested an underclocked APU in a custom console environment on 7mn or 7mn+?

Doubtful, if a 5700RT is bascially a match for a 2070 (Approx 2 tflops less), it would need 12+ tflops to match a 2080, and north of 15 tflops to match the 2080ti

Yet you seem to be basing your entire opinion on the leak that says Scarellet is 380+ and PS5 is ~320 (despite this falling exactly into range of PS5 being on 7nm+)

I think we all get it now, you are hoping that Scarlett is bigger and more powerful. Fancy giving it a rest until more information is released. Virtually every post of yours over the last 10 pages has been the same post reworded. It's almost as though you believe that saying the same thing over and over while appearing confident will actually lead people to believe the narrative. This rarely works when you only evidence is purely what you hope and ebelieve is the case from the partial code you are actually analysing. What if all along, the 13E8 does mean it's a 13 tflop part, and all this time you've been arguing otherwise.

Imagine the egg on your face.

Enough is enough surely.

It's best to just ignore R600, that's what I do.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

Which ties well with realiatic expectation of Navi being too hot and too big for 10+TF range.

 

[CyberPanda]

https://pastebin.com/UAbUBpMk another "leak" :/

That’s so fake. People need to stop linking to pastebins. They used to be reliable back in the day until trolls and attention seekers started abusing it, and making ridiculous rumours. And, the die size/power consumption is never disclosed in the docs as it's not relevant when developing games.

 

[SlimySnake]

R R600

For sure, but DF actually took time to reach out to Apisak and put in their due diligence. That was months ago, and people still say it's not possible for Sony hardware to be used on Windows with 3DMark.

I've seen some of the same people go from upwards of 80CUs and 14TF, and now back down to 8-9TF, but "it's the same, but different". Although every motherfucker knows we were speculating on Navi and assuming the architectural jump and node jump in the speculation. AdoredTV was the basis of most early speculation so things were way too optimistic. We never got our $250 150W Vega 64. Shit's probably gonna sell for $379-400 and pull 180W+.

Yep. i think the 12-14 tflops guys were all expecting Navi to be GCN. This entire redesign has everyone pretty much start from scratch. every speculation pre computex now has to be thrown away because of RDNA.

i do find it funny that the same people who jumped on the 8tflops train back in January after the first Gonzolo leak readily assumed 64 CUs at 1ghz to arrive at the 8 tflops figure, but once the second Gonzolo leak confirmed a 1.8ghz clockspeeds, all of a sudden 64 CUs went down to 36 CUs for some bizarre reason. I dont think next gen consoles will have 64 CUs, but i do think it was weird how some depesartely want gonzolo to be 8 tflops. it makes sense now after seeing the 5700XT specs but we have been seeing this for months now.

The funny thing is that consoles almost always increase CUs instead of increasing clockspeeds. The PS4 couldve gone for a 16Cu HD 7850 with high clockspeeds but they settled for a 7870 with low clockspeeds. They used a 40 CU die for the Pro and again lower clockspeeds than the 470 and so did MS a year later. I dont even think AMD had any 44 CU dies at the time for the 500 series. From what i understand, increasing clockspeeds isnt as efficient as adding more CUs in both performance and TDP. So why would Sony increase the clockspeeds so high instead of just going with more compute units?

Maybe, just maybe Sony has figured out a way to push the clocks AND increase the CUs. Maybe not all the way to 64 CUs or even 56. But i highly suspect they would settle for 36CUs in a $499 console.

 

[vpance]

It is kind of interesting how Gonzalo 315mm2 is 18% smaller than Scarlett 385mm2, almost exactly in line with EUV shrink expectations. The kicker could be Sony going 2/3 stack HBM2 saving them ton of die space for a bigger GPU. And that's how we can have Gonzalo and Reiner/Colin rumors both being true.

 

[DJ12]

Boy are you having a meltdown. And no, you are wrong on all accounts.

So you have got a Zen 2 Apu with Navi you and under clocked it, my mistake. Also I think it's pretty clear to all that I have nailed the last ten pages of your posts to a t.

You clown.

Please note it's only xbots that give a damn, Sony whores, apart from those that like console wars with planks like you, don't really care as they know it's all about the games.

For sure if I get a next gen console it will be a playstation (thanks for game pass Microsoft rendering your console useless to me) but I dare say both will struggle to keep up with what I have now, never mind when I upgrade in a few months.

 

[TeamGhobad]

It is kind of interesting how Gonzalo 315mm2 is 18% smaller than Scarlett 385mm2, almost exactly in line with EUV shrink expectations. The kicker could be Sony going 2/3 stack HBM2 saving them ton of die space for a bigger GPU. And that's how we can have Gonzalo and Reiner/Colin rumors both being true.

once again the RAM is gonna fuck the xbox up....smh

 

[R600]

So you have got a Zen 2 Apu with Navi you and under clocked it, my mistake. Also I think it's pretty clear to all that I have nailed the last ten pages of your posts to a t.

You clown.

Please note it's only xbots that give a damn, Sony whores, apart from those that like console wars with planks like you, don't really care as they know it's all about the games.

For sure if I get a next gen console it will be a playstation (thanks for game pass Microsoft rendering your console useless to me) but I dare say both will struggle to keep up with what I have now, never mind when I upgrade in a few months.

Xbots...clowns...whores...planks...

Yep, meltdown. See you guys in a few months.

 

[DJ12]

Xbots...clowns...whores...planks...

Yep, meltdown. See you guys in a few months.

To be honest if it stops you posting the same drivel over and over again I'll take it.

Yes I'm having a melt down. Lol. Ta tar for now.

 

[R600]

once again the RAM is gonna fuck the xbox up....smh

HBM2 is 4x more expensive per GB without performance benefit. Theory is that it will put less watts, but its not watts from memory that is a big problem, its wattage if SOC we are limited by.

 

[DJ12]

HBM2 is 4x more expensive per GB without performance benefit. Theory is that it will put less watts, but its not watts from memory that is a big problem, its wattage if SOC we are limited by.

In addition to my meltdown may as well add lack of reading comprehension to it also, could've swore you just said 'see you in a few months.'

 

[Lort]

So it seems like everyone agreeing on 8-10tf again now .. only to now be describing it as 12 tf ( even though its not).

All seems pretty likely but lets be clear it proves the original rumours correct.

 

[ResilientBanana]

So it seems like everyone agreeing on 8-10tf again now .. only to now be describing it as 12 tf ( even though its not).

All seems pretty likely but lets be clear it proves the original rumours correct.

Do we even know what that is anymore?

 

[MadAnon]

Look at the estimates for 5700 i linked you
CUs take less than 50% die space its not a linear scale

Ok, I get that now.

But what about those measurements proelite did on supposed scarlett APU from that image. He used the known size of memory module in that image for reference but not even one of them is fully visible on the plane he drew. That's not a simple 2D geometry. So I'm curious how he calculated it. Seems like a very rough estimate with big margin of error.

 

[R600]

In addition to my meltdown may as well add lack of reading comprehension to it also, could've swore you just said 'see you in a few months.'

Had to reply one more time on pie in sky dreams you guys are having.

 

[Lort]

Ian Cutress, AnandTech: Given that Ray Tracing has been announced in the PS5 specs, can you say if that’s a specific Sony optimization or is that inherent in RDNA?

Lisa Su: We certainly have done very specific optimizations for Sony. They are a very deep partner with us on semi-custom, and there are optimizations there. However we view ray tracing as a very important element across the portfolio. We will have ray tracing in a number of places. Will you look at that, you got me to say more about ray tracing!

All Ryzen: Q&A with AMD CEO Dr. Lisa Su (Anandtech)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14579/all-ryzen-qa-with-amd-ceo-dr-lisa-su Roundtable of tech analysts interview SuBae, should be a good read! Lisa Su: Of course what I would like to say is that I read more than any of those guys think. We are very flattered that there are so many people who...

www.neogaf.com

Sony fan .. pls tell us how Sony has ray tracing stuff MS doesn't pls pls pls

AMD: nope MS has it to.

I mean AMD says the same thing about Microsoft:

"Our relationship with Microsoft is based on silicon design deeply rooted in tight collaboration. Our engineering organizations work together as one design team to continually innovate and significantly advance the overall gaming experience. "

Sign In to AMD Community - AMD Community

community.amd.com

Sony fan: please tell us Sony is AMD bestest best friend.

AMD Nope, we are bestest best bros with Microsoft but we like Sony to.

 

[Aceofspades]

It is kind of interesting how Gonzalo 315mm2 is 18% smaller than Scarlett 385mm2, almost exactly in line with EUV shrink expectations. The kicker could be Sony going 2/3 stack HBM2 saving them ton of die space for a bigger GPU. And that's how we can have Gonzalo and Reiner/Colin rumors both being true.

I want Cerny to come to stage and say: HBM3

Booom megaton

I can settle for HBM2 since I feel that power and die savings are both worth the extra cost of the memory.

 

[TeamGhobad]

this is a problem

 

[Aceofspades]

Sony fan .. pls tell us how Sony has ray tracing stuff MS doesn't pls pls pls

AMD: nope MS has it to.


Sony fan: please tell us Sony is AMD bestest best friend.

AMD Nope, we are bestest best bros with Microsoft but we like Sony to.

I think this interview was before MS officially reveal Scarlet, thats why MS was not mentioned here.

 

[Aceofspades]

this is a problem

In the US .... Yes, its a problem. Not sure it can affect RotW?! Or is it?

 

[Imtjnotu]

Ok

I want Cerny to come to stage and say: HBM3

Booom megaton

I can settle for HBM2 since I feel that power and die savings are both worth the extra cost of the memory.

i want sony to say $449 rather than hbm3

 

[Lort]

No, it's not IBM PC compatible in any shape or form (for example, legacy BIOS functions are totally missing and the southbridge is rather exotic compared to PC chipsets).

Don't take my word for it, watch this presentation (PS4 hackers):

Console Hacking 2016

Last year, we demonstrated Linux running on the PS4 in a lightning talk - presented on the PS4 itself. But how did we do it? In a departu...

media.ccc.de

Wow this video just destroys the idea that Sony is good at hardware design. Mark Cerny’s reputation just took a huge hit.

This video just rips apart the design of the PS4. SATA on the blue ray but not HDD we always knew but not why.. its obvious now its likely due to the crazy pointless southbridge design. Even with the source code for thier own operating system this would be a pain to debug and manage. Highly likely Sony has ditched this design as it added little ( just power saving mode) and make things way more complex amd slower.

This video pretty much confirms that the PS4 IS built on windows compatible parts ( even the SOC south bridge chip is itself windows compatible ).. its the horrible integration layer that would cause issues booting windows.

Sony will have ditched this custom pointless slow integration layer this time and so the PS5 probably will boot linux or windows easily.

Thanks for the video .. that was a laugh!

 

[FrostyJ93]

So X0 is coming back this November. Think we will get anything for Scarlett?

 

[Aceofspades]

Wow this video just destroys the idea that Sony is good at hardware design. Mark Cerny’s reputation just took a huge hit.

If anything you seem hurt by Mark Cerny somehow

 

[Lort]

If anything you seem hurt by Mark Cerny somehow

Watch the video.. the ps4 design is a dumpster fire. I usually believe theres some truth to the common belief .. ie that his a good designer / project magaer... i went in expecting it to be interesting ... but not in THAT way.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Yep. i think the 12-14 tflops guys were all expecting Navi to be GCN. This entire redesign has everyone pretty much start from scratch. every speculation pre computex now has to be thrown away because of RDNA.

This is why early in the game it was important to use the historical jump in perf/watt from 28nm Grenada to 14nm Polaris. I had R9 390 and went to RX 480 and it was a drop from ~282W(gaming) to ~166W for about 5% less performance. Use that current Vega cards and see where you land irrespective of architectural redesign. More or less at 180W+ Navi that equals Vega 64, which is right damn smack on 5700 Pro.

The funny thing is that consoles almost always increase CUs instead of increasing clockspeeds. *snip* So why would Sony increase the clockspeeds so high instead of just going with more compute units?

DF says that a smaller chip is less costly and easier to cool. They mentioned the outside chance that it could also be built in a way to make BC easier.

Maybe, just maybe Sony has figured out a way to push the clocks AND increase the CUs. Maybe not all the way to 64 CUs or even 56. But i highly suspect they would settle for 36CUs in a $499 console.

Perhaps. I think Gonzalo is it and it is powerful, but that could a way bigger chip than DF expects. I think Navi just has better clocks than Polaris and Vega. Pretty much every GTX 1060 could go over 2GHz. Maybe Navi doesn't mind 1.8GHz?

 

[jonnyp]

Watch the video.. the ps4 design is a dumpster fire. I usually believe theres some truth to the common belief .. ie that his a good designer / project magaer... i went in expecting it to be interesting ... but not in THAT way.

You need to grow up, son.

 

[Aceofspades]

Watch the video.. the ps4 design is a dumpster fire. I usually believe theres some truth to the common belief .. ie that his a good designer / project magaer... i went in expecting it to be interesting ... but not in THAT way.

What made it a dumpster? Last I remember it was running all games better than Xbox one, by a huge margin. That what matter to me.

I don't care what a bunch of hackers are trying to achieve here, the hacking community is still butthurt by Sony's removal of "other OS" on PS3...It was funny seeing them cry over that feature

 

[DemonCleaner]

Read what you're jumping into the middle of. I've had a running bet with SonGoku that the 5700 XT will beat PS5 performance.

I understand what's going on now with your all caps yelling and confusion. I've had you on ignore for months because you wouldn't fix your gray formatting. I haven't seen anything you've been posting. Makes sense now.

im sorry for yelling at you. but people where making wrong asumptions based on your overclock numbers. I JUST WANTED TO BE HEARD
i like your posts even if you didn't read mine...


that said: i think our brains function very differently. you put me on on ignore because you couldn't read my posts (because of grey formating) so that you could read my posts even less. i wouldn't do such a thing.

 

[ArabianPrynce]

This is why early in the game it was important to use the historical jump in perf/watt from 28nm Grenada to 14nm Polaris. I had R9 390 and went to RX 480 and it was a drop from ~282W(gaming) to ~166W for about 5% less performance. Use that current Vega cards and see where you land irrespective of architectural redesign. More or less at 180W+ Navi that equals Vega 64, which is right damn smack on 5700 Pro.


DF says that a smaller chip is less costly and easier to cool. They mentioned the outside chance that it could also be built in a way to make BC easier.


Perhaps. I think Gonzalo is it and it is powerful, but that could a way bigger chip than DF expects. I think Navi just has better clocks than Polaris and Vega. Pretty much every GTX 1060 could go over 2GHz. Maybe Navi doesn't mind 1.8GHz?

What kind of performance are expecting out 8tflop Navi. I’s it really that good? Curious to know why people are invested in double digits tflops

 

[Ar¢tos]

Wow this video just destroys the idea that Sony is good at hardware design. Mark Cerny’s reputation just took a huge hit.

This video just rips apart the design of the PS4. SATA on the blue ray but not HDD we always knew but not why.. its obvious now its likely due to the crazy pointless southbridge design. Even with the source code for thier own operating system this would be a pain to debug and manage. Highly likely Sony has ditched this design as it added little ( just power saving mode) and make things way more complex amd slower.

This video pretty much confirms that the PS4 IS built on windows compatible parts ( even the SOC south bridge chip is itself windows compatible ).. its the horrible integration layer that would cause issues booting windows.

Sony will have ditched this custom pointless slow integration layer this time and so the PS5 probably will boot linux or windows easily.

Thanks for the video .. that was a laugh!

The Southbridge CPU is ARM, and at the time windows for ARM wasn't even a thing. How can you say it is windows compatible? Why are you judging a console board from a windows pc pov?