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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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pasterpl

Member
No, because a marketing deal involves monetary value being agreed before the service is performed.

What Sony have done is made an investment. They haven't paid Epic for a service, they have bought stock in Epic which is an asset that Sony now owns.

And as Sweeney said in this post, Sony approached Epic after the UE5 demo, not before.

what we do know, is that Sony became epic shareholder, we don’t know any specifics what comes in terms of power with such a small, share. We don’t know details of the deal. What we do know is that optics of this in context of what epic was saying in the last 1-2 months about ps5, and it doesn’t look good.
 

ToadMan

Member
So, when you said "Nobody say PS5 to outperform XSX." you didn't mean "nobody said it", you meant "of course some people said it, but you didn't give me enough examples of people saying it to prove that people said it."

Let's be realistic, it's a lot more that 3 comments. The simple list I made featured seven different posters (most of them very active) and that was gathered very quickly - there would be hundreds of similar comments in this thread from a bunch of other users.

At least we can agree that the people who did say it are 'mentally insane'. :)

I think you need to be a lot clearer about your meaning if you're going to use this argument..

You are thinking only in tflops and concluding those posts you quoted previously are factually incorrect. Nevermind that tflops aren't a measurement of performance - they're a prediction of performance of a subsection of a system. Like all predictions, they're not always entirely accurate.

Setting that aside, I don't think anyone argues that others parts of the PS5 architecture are indeed more performant that the xsex - the SSD is the obvious one and this is a measurement, not a prediction therefore it carries more weight as a metric.

Beyond that there are other numbers that can be compared and would show the PS5 to be "better" if such simplistic comparisons were to be made.

The argument is that choosing a single number referring to a single component of a complex system isn't a valid way to compare and judge performance of the system as a whole particularly when those numbers are based on notional performance rather than achieved performance.

In the same way as you are loose with your definitions, others have become loose with theirs and that's why you managed to quote so many.

It's not surprising accuracy suffers when a lot of people in this thread aren't interested in "speculation or analysis" - they actually want confirmation of their own bias and a simple “one number beats all” metric because it's simple to understand.
 
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MastaKiiLA

Member
yes, makes sense, 250M usd exchanging hands, shares going other direction, public companies involved, companies from different countries With different legislations, not mentioning that there is China (tencent) involved in this as well. Yeah sounds like something you can wrap up very quickly.
Closing a deal takes very little time. Discussing terms also doesn't take very long either. Business deals aren't all that complicated, unless ownership or properties is involved. Owning a non-controlling share of a company doesn't seem like something you need to hash over for months, especially when you have had a working relationship with that company for years. I assume the terms of the deal might just involve special pricing on licenses in both directions, but don't assume this stuff is overly complicated. This isn't like negotiating a merger or takeover. I secured a 1-3% revenue share deal with a channel partner in a couple of phone calls (and I had zero prior experience in doing so). When the terms are reasonable, there's not a whole lot that needs to be discussed. Each side gets approval from their board or executives, and then lawyers draw up terms for the agreement. Signed and done.
 
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Darius87

Member
yes, makes sense, 250M usd exchanging hands, shares going other direction, public companies involved, companies from different countries With different legislations, not mentioning that there is China (tencent) involved in this as well. Yeah sounds like something you can wrap up very quickly.
you know there's money transactions through banks there's no need to exchange money this is not gang deal. buying shares is easy only if it's available.
giphy.gif
 
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Handy Fake

Member
Closing a deal takes very little time. Discussing terms also doesn't take very long either. Business deals aren't all that complicated, unless ownership or properties is involved. Owning a non-controlling share of a company doesn't seem like something you need to hash over for months, especially when you have had a working relationship with that company for years. I assume the terms of the deal might just involve special pricing on licenses in both directions, but don't assume this stuff is overly complicated. This isn't like negotiating a merger or takeover. I secured a 1-3% revenue share deal with a channel partner in a couple of phone calls (and I had zero prior experience in doing so). When the terms are reasonable, there's not a whole lot that needs to be discussed. Each side gets approval from their board or executives, and then lawyers draw up terms for the agreement. Signed and done.
I don't even think there needs to be a bilateral agreement drawn up does there? It's just like trading in stocks and shares, if they're available you get the go ahead from your own comapny and buy them up.

Of course, I got all of my information from the film Trading Places and that only goes as far as pork bellies, frozen orange juice and Jamie Lee Curtis's tits.
 
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ToadMan

Member
what we do know, is that Sony became epic shareholder, we don’t know any specifics what comes in terms of power with such a small, share. We don’t know details of the deal. What we do know is that optics of this in context of what epic was saying in the last 1-2 months about ps5, and it doesn’t look good.

That's fine - the optics don't look good to you from your perspective and that is entirely your prerogative to define for yourself.

The demo exists - somehow Epic made it run on a PS5, the rest is arguing over one guy's word (admittedly the senior guy for Epic - so it's difficult to argue with his credibility) over a bunch of others who don't like the message he's sending but lack credibility.

Looking at the statement made by Sony in relation to this investment - it didn't name check the PS5 or the UE5 demo specifically, it referred to general gaming revenue.

It's seems people are in disbelief there isn't a deal of some sort between Epic and Sony over this demo - presumably because other (one could say more vulgar) companies would have milked it...

Imagine a more marketing focused company struggling to gain ground in their market being gifted with a free piece of incredible tech and then an investment opportunity - they'd be spamming social media everywhere with "look what we can do".

Sony hasn't done this - and that seems to be egregious to some who now go looking confirmation of a conspiracy they're convinced is taking place.

Perhaps men really didn't go to the moon, the world is flat, and Epic took their successful 3rd party engine and tailored it specifically to Sony's PS5 in a mammoth battle of brain vs underpowered tech all in an effort to secure 1.5% company stock investment while costing them billions in lost revenue on other platforms. Sure, could be that....

On the point of corporate "power" - a 1.5% holding gets Sony very little direct power. Sony are a passenger on Epic's train with such a small holding - they might get consulted beyond the 1.5% value because of their mindshare lead in the console space, but ultimately the major shareholders call the shots and where their goals align with Sony it'll be a win all round and where their goals don't align with Sony, it'll be tough luck for Sony.
 

Rudius

Member
I keep beating this drum over and over again. When you look at the Series X, it stands as a pretty traditional piece of hardware. I'm not saying this as a dis, Microsoft wants you in their ecosystem whether its, Series X, Lockheart, PC, or some streaming on a tablet. Looking at the Sony side of the equation, what is the best way for them to separate themselves from Microsoft, or even Nintendo? Virtual Reality. Simple as that. There's absolutely no doubt they have a PSVR2 headset waiting in the wings. When you look at the hardware, you see things like the insane SSD and I/O, along with other things like SmartShift. Not to mention they've not yet gone into more bespoke aspects like their coherency engine. I guarantee there's tweaks in there entirely related to VR performance. I mean the PS5 could have hardware built in that originally was inside the breakout box for the first PSVR. Could explain why it's so large, or it could be simply awesome cooling. We'll see.
Tom from Moore's law is dead said that the PS5 has SOC has customizations specific for VR, related to making rendering 2 images simultaneously less expensive. Don't know if it's true, but I want to believe:

(at 37 minutes)
 

sircaw

Banned
That's fine - the optics don't look good to you from your perspective and that is entirely your prerogative to define for yourself.

The demo exists - somehow Epic made it run on a PS5, the rest is arguing over one guy's word (admittedly the senior guy for Epic - so it's difficult to argue with his credibility) over a bunch of others who don't like the message he's sending but lack credibility.

Looking at the statement made by Sony in relation to this investment - it didn't name check the PS5 or the UE5 demo specifically, it referred to general gaming revenue.

It's seems people are in disbelief there isn't a deal of some sort between Epic and Sony over this demo - presumably because other (one could say more vulgar) companies would have milked it...

Imagine a more marketing focused company struggling to gain ground in their market being gifted with a free piece of incredible tech and then an investment opportunity - they'd be spamming social media everywhere with "look what we can do".

Sony hasn't done this - and that seems to be egregious to some who now go looking confirmation of a conspiracy they're convinced is taking place.

Perhaps men really didn't go to the moon, the world is flat, and Epic took their successful 3rd party engine and tailored it specifically to Sony's PS5 in a mammoth battle of brain vs underpowered tech all in an effort to secure 1.5% company stock investment while costing them billions in lost revenue on other platforms. Sure, could be that....

On the point of corporate "power" - a 1.5% holding gets Sony very little direct power. Sony are a passenger on Epic's train with such a small holding - they might get consulted beyond the 1.5% value because of their mindshare lead in the console space, but ultimately the major shareholders call the shots and where their goals align with Sony it'll be a win all round and where their goals don't align with Sony, it'll be tough luck for Sony.

Such a clear, well thought out post. I like logic.
Lets see who disagree's with this.
 

Vae_Victis

Banned
This Sony and Epic debacle really confuses me.


Sony just bought a miniscule quote (1.4%) of Epic's stock if I'm understanding correctly. Why should that suddenly mean that anything that Epic ever said or even showed for PS5 is fake or blown out of proportion?

Mark Cerny is a paid consultant for Sony, currently they probably cover 100% of his salary, not 1.4%. By this logic then, everything he says is also automatically fake? Why were we ever even debating the Road to PS5 presentation? Until you have a PS5 on your very own table and take it apart who the hell knows what is in there, right?

The same is obviously true for any piece of information ever given by Microsoft or Nintendo about their consoles. Or a game publisher. Or anyone who is in any way shape or form tangentially related to any company. Does XSX really have a 12TFLOPS GPU in it? How do you know? Who told you, somebody Microsoft pays?!


Do you guys understand that any pieces of information can hypothetically be lies, and consequently when you are told something you have to put it through a long, all-encompassing list of checks and balances to judge it? Or do you just go with "A said it -> I don't like A -> Must be false" or "B said it -> I like B -> Must be true", no matter anything else?

There has been a lot of technical information that you don't just have to take at "face value" and judge only according to who is saying it, on everything this debate covers. There is data, there are known rules of how electronics work, there is video footage, there is reasonable logical gaps you can cover using known information, there are tons of people in the field from all over the place giving their impressions and often justifying them on a technical basis.


Why is the possibility that, IF somebody were telling lies, there COULD be a SLIVER of a motive for them to be doing that, suddenly evidence in and of itself - regardless of anything and everything else - that somebody IS telling lies? Are you clinically insane?

A: "I bought this apple from my cousin's store, look at it, isn't it beautiful? Want to try it out?"
B: "You only want to promote your cousin's store, you have a bias! His apples must be rancid shit!"
A: "It's right here, you can look at it, taste it-"
B: "SHILL!!!!!!!"
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Whats your take on Toads post?
I think he missed the point, at least for me personally. I don't believe there is a deal, I don't even think Sony had anything to do with it. I just think that Sweeney deliberately pushed the narrative for more PS5 SSD hype, on his own and with his team, to improve the relation with Sony even more. Knowing they were going to invest and that might have increased the valuation of the company. Sony had nothing to do with it really, just Sweeney trying to get more money.

edit: Which is normal btw, I completely understand why he did that. It's just that we have to take his comments with a grain of salt. At first you could say he's just an industry professional and that was his objective opinion. Now you can see that he might have done it for different reasons, and it would be naive to completely ignore that.
 
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sircaw

Banned
I think he missed the point, at least for me personally. I don't believe there is a deal, I don't even think Sony had anything to do with it. I just think that Sweeney deliberately pushed the narrative for more PS5 SSD hype, on his own and with his team, to improve the relation with Sony even more. Knowing they were going to invest and that might have increased the valuation of the company. Sony had nothing to do with it really, just Sweeney trying to get more money.

So about half way in on the Georgio scale of conspiracies meter.
Its a start. :messenger_beaming:

As for wanting to impress Sony , maybe but i keep hearing on these forums that Microsoft are the big boys in terms of cash, surly if you wanted to impress someone you would try and get Microsoft on board.

They are basically the dragon in the hobbit, mountains of gold.
 
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FranXico

Member
So about half way in on the Georgio scale of conspiracies meter.
Its a start. :messenger_beaming:

As for wanting to impress Sony , maybe but i keep hearing on these forums that Microsoft are the big boys in terms of cash, surly if you wanted to impress someone you would try and get Microsoft on board.

They are basically the dragon in the hobbit, mountains of gold.
I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. "Acts of good will" are common among companies seeking deals. I wouldn't be surprised if Sweeny really did all this with the goal of getting extra funding from Sony.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
So about half way in on the Georgio scale of conspiracies meter.
Its a start. :messenger_beaming:

As for wanting to impress Sony , maybe but i keep hearing on these forums that Microsoft are the big boys in terms of cash, surly if you wanted to impress someone you would try and get Microsoft on board.

They are basically the dragon in the hobbit, mountains of gold.
He doesn't have the best relationship with Microsoft, you can Google all of that. He's always criticising them.
 

sircaw

Banned
I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. "Acts of good will" are common among companies seeking deals. I wouldn't be surprised if Sweeny really did all this with the goal of getting extra funding from Sony.

I think there are acts of good will, but these forums over the last few days have been acting like its the only reason Tim Sweeney is/has been praising the ps5.

They can't get it in there heads that he might actually be right in saying that ps5 is indeed a fantastic piece of kit.

It's just another way of downplaying the ps5, its pretty pathetic.

That's all this is. some console Waring bullshit.
 
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Handy Fake

Member
May as well pop this in here too. A little light reading from last month that I happened across while trying to find out who else has shares in Epic.

 
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GRIEVEZ

Member
Bit weird people will take anything to devalue Sony/Epic at this point. But I guess its to be expected? (I understand people have to, since there's no content to embolden preference at the moment besides specs)

Anyways... Sony also makes movies, UE - is being used for movies/series as well.

Its in line with the acquisition of Atom view.

Also they are still sitting on the movie rights of 900 marvel characters as well and I doubt theyre just gonna let those collect dust :p

What in trying to say is, not everything is game related, so ease up a bit.
 

Jokerevo

Banned
They know. They know the PS5 is worse. They pretend not to understand. Their shit tier trolling is just them trying to convince themself being less powerful is okay, and spread fear uncertainty and doubt about the SX capability.

Power is irrelevant. This gen the most powerful console is the X. The X finished last this gen. LAST. MS could not even beat the 720p machine. They got smashed so hard that they actually stopped releasing sales figures it was that SHAMEFUL for them. No one gave a crap about how powerful the X was when it did not showcase this power in any game. MS used to understand that the GAMES where the most important thing.

I should know, I last owned an Xbox in the 360 era and that was the best xbox era because it had its own exclusives. MS seem to have completely forgotten that race.

Now we have the X once again as the most powerful games machine (for now) BUT WHERE ARE THE GAMES? WHERE IS Minecraft 4k60fps RT? If you watch the first reveal...they had to hide the game...a game that should be front and center, it's a tier 1 draw for any gamer. Heck if they showed it running 60fps RT 1080p I think that would be enough to make me ditch the stupidly inefficient, massively overpriced PC.

But they could barely manage 1080p 30fps...so all that power is irrelevant in the second most important aspect of game design : optimisation. They cannot optimise Minecraft because it has to run across a whole load of configs.

Minecraft RT edition should be an X exclusive, then they could rebuild it from the ground up and optimise for XsX but they can't...and this is why XsX is fucked. They will never be able to reach the ceiling because PC will get its SSD solution and then XsX will become lowest common denominator.

Scalability = compromise.


(If you want even more proof of this consider all the crap ports of console games that finally made their way to PC, despite all that power they couldn't re-wire those games to run optimally and no one wanted to re-build from the ground up) - incidentally it would be interesting to see how well HZD PC runs because that would indicate DECIMA has been tweaked towards PC.



The PS5 is going to benefit, as has the PS4 from FIXED TARGET optimisation.

The ps4 is the equivalent gpu of a 750ti. SHOW ME ONE PC GAME with the same level of fidelity on a PC with same 7 year old specs that equals or betters GoW, or HZD or Tlou2 etc etc. This isn't magic. It's not about power. It's about proprietary engines being built for fixed platform, where they know exactly how much can go in and can go out.

The same design principle applies universally. The less resources you have, the more creative you have to become, the more knowledgeable you become about the limits and boundaries. The more juice you can extract.

I really wish XsX had its own exclusives because that's the only way we're going to see this machine hit the ceiling because once PC reclaims the power the XsX becomes a slave (not to mention lockhart even) the XsX will still get those frames but it will come at a cost of fidelity, akin to switching off all those sliders.

More proof that power and ram don't matter? I have a 64mb ram 2080ti PC and no game takes advantage of it because devs have design for the lowest common denominator.

What do you mean define things...it can load whatever it wants. So yeah it can load your tetxures.

First you talked about loading assets in the fly and claimed the series X can't do it and would "need to take a taxi" but that's simply not true.

Loading data into ram is faster on ps5. But you will still saturate the pools on both machines within seconds. And the image still has to be processed by the GPU. The swapping of textures is important in creating more lively images with unique aspects. But this notion that 5.5 vs 9 is going to create this massive difference is silly.

This scenario you make up doesn't even have any relevance to how games are created. Again, show me a game where it needs to fetch assets so quickly that 5.5 gigs a second isn't quick enough?

Even if the game exsisted, it simply require further optimization on the part of the Xbox version.

The innovation of storage is the fact that both machines have fast SSDs not that one has a faster SSD than the other.

No one can show you that game because they haven't been released yet. We;ve been stuck on garbage 100mb/s for too long.

The way games are being designed is going to change. Your basing your assumption on old world games. We're in a new world now. The PC way has been holding back gaming for decades. All that power...being fed by a 100mbs mechanical drive. That bottleneck, which for some reason, took a CONSOLE MANUFACTURER to remove is finally gone.

This has brings a step-change to the game design.
 

raul3d

Member
I think he missed the point, at least for me personally. I don't believe there is a deal, I don't even think Sony had anything to do with it. I just think that Sweeney deliberately pushed the narrative for more PS5 SSD hype, on his own and with his team, to improve the relation with Sony even more. Knowing they were going to invest and that might have increased the valuation of the company. Sony had nothing to do with it really, just Sweeney trying to get more money.

edit: Which is normal btw, I completely understand why he did that. It's just that we have to take his comments with a grain of salt. At first you could say he's just an industry professional and that was his objective opinion. Now you can see that he might have done it for different reasons, and it would be naive to completely ignore that.
Ok, so let me get this straight: You think that Sweeney manipulated Sony for years during the planning and the design phase of the PS5 to push geometry and SSD thruput really high. Then Epic spent years of research and development to implement Nanite into UE5, which focuses on these two aspects, and then spent the resources to built a techdemo in order to impress Sony, so that they buy stock in the volume of 250mil? Sounds totally plausible..

Hell, I'm still waiting for my system to throttle, because apparently, it's impossible to hit the GPU and CPU without it happening!

13b0202ebb8b50f5573f5f9ad913f648.png
A 100% utilization only means that the hardware is not sitting there idle. It does not mean that it is doing any meaningful work, let alone that all resources of that hardware are used. And even if you fully occupy all hardware resources with some synthetic workload, why should it throttle? It will only throttle if the heat produced is too high for the cooling solution or if it is drawing too much power. And a 4.3Ghz on an 6 core CPU should not have issues in either in a desktop environment.

But I am sure you already know all of this, so what was the reason to post this besides misleading? I am seriously wondering what your reason is for posting half of your posts.

Man, these last 10 pages...


It definitely was a mistake to lift all these reply-bans. It is killing the thread and makes discussing proper topics impossible. But maybe that is also the reason for it, to finally lock this thread up for good.
 
D

Deleted member 775630

Unconfirmed Member
Ok, so let me get this straight: You think that Sweeney manipulated Sony for years during the planning and the design phase of the PS5 to push geometry and SSD thruput really high. Then Epic spent years of research and development to implement Nanite into UE5, which focuses on these two aspects, and then spent the resources to built a techdemo in order to impress Sony, so that they buy stock in the volume of 250mil? Sounds totally plausible..
What? No not at all... Are you even reading what I said? "pie_tears_joy:
 

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
A 100% utilization only means that the hardware is not sitting there idle. It does not mean that it is doing any meaningful work, let alone that all resources of that hardware are used. And even if you fully occupy all hardware resources with some synthetic workload, why should it throttle? It will only throttle if the heat produced is too high for the cooling solution or if it is drawing too much power. And a 4.3Ghz on an 6 core CPU should not have issues in either in a desktop environment.

It's directed at users who were claiming it was impossible then posting rubbish "evidence" where a passively cooled system slowly throttled overtime.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
so EPIC were trying to impress Sony.... same idea
well, Epic has made it no secret that they are trying to get money. So it makes no sense to ONLY praise the PS5. Surely MS has a far bigger war chest and $250 million is like spare change to a trillion dollar company. why wouldnt Tim praise the series x the way hes praised the PS5 if all he wanted was a few million dollars?

i think worst case scenario, he was being honest while flattering like all of us do before the first date, and when Sony did accept the first date, he upped the flattery to make sure he gets in at the end of the night. But this puts to rest him being cagey in the Geoff Keighley video.
 

Dodkrake

Banned
For those that don't understand simple concepts such as efficiency (vs total available power), this post, which has been here before, illustrates it very well. Please pardon me for sharing an ERA post.

 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Tim Sweeney owned some people on Twitter in the last coupe of months - this is not one of those moments.

This time the answer from Tim sounds defensive and desperate and I believe most people think its bullshit.
not even close.

the tweet from Senjutsu is the one that reeks of desperation. The guy could've taken the W and walked away while literally the internet assumed Tim had been lying to get into bed with Sony. Instead, Senjutsu pushed his luck like the greedy little fanboy he is and ended up exonerating Tim and every statement he's made regarding the PS5 architecture.

all this guy had to do was STFU and just enjoy the win. It's the most hilarious own goal i've seen since Linus made that I am embarrassed for my sins video.
 

Dodkrake

Banned
Here, we see plenty of these

is the practice of masking the sponsors of a message or organization (e.g., political, advertising, religious or public relations) to make it appear as though it originates from and is supported by grassroots participants. It is a practice intended to give the statements or organizations credibility by withholding information about the source's financial connection. The term astroturfing is derived from AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to resemble natural grass, as a play on the word "grassroots". The implication behind the use of the term is that instead of a "true" or "natural" grassroots effort behind the activity in question, there is a "fake" or "artificial" appearance of support.

Which spread

Many years later, after it became overwhelmingly common for companies to have a computer at almost every employee's desk, Microsoft became better-known for FUD due to their particular vehemence against the free open source software movement. One example of FUD terminology is vaporware: Suppose a company is trying to market a software product that provides feature X. Microsoft will announce that it intends to bundle its own application that also provides feature X for free in the next Service Pack for the Windows Operating System, leading to customers deciding not to purchase the alternate product with the expectation of getting feature X for free with an upcoming round of patches from Redmond, but the promised Microsoft product never appears.

I've also spotted one of these. He creates huge ass posts but always steers the conversation to the same topic.

A concern troll is someone who disingenuously visits sites of an opposing ideology to disrupt conversation by offering unwanted advice on how to solve problems which do not really exist. Topics of "concern" usually involve tactical use of rhetoric, site rules, or with more philosophical consistency. The concern troll's posts are almost exclusively intended to derail the normal functions of their targeted website.

Alternatively, a concern troll is someone who enters a discussion with a pre-formed opinion contrary to the majority opinion, but pretends to conform in order to subtly sow dissent and doubt without being called on it. Such attempts often begin with the troll raising "concerns" about the topic of the discussion, hence the name.

While this is a common internet phenomenon, the term is open to misuse. More paranoid circles may accuse someone of being a concern troll for the simple crime of not blindly agreeing with all of the group's dogma.

Any conversation that steers into actual facts and information is suddenly re-routed to pure flame and console wars. I'm probably gonna be moderated for this, but will drop it here regardless.
 
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Andodalf

Banned
It definitely was a mistake to lift all these reply-bans. It is killing the thread and makes discussing proper topics impossible. But maybe that is also the reason for it, to finally lock this thread up for good.

Well for a long while this thread has been a Sony OT, where saying stuff like, PS5 won’t be 13 TF or that Epic and Sony are clearly business partners had people mass reporting you. People said that saying Github was right about 36 CUs was insta ban worthy. The problem with the thread right now is that kids are upset their circle jerk sesh got stopped
 

BGs

Industry Professional
Actually rumors say that that's exactly how XBX will handle BC titles - double the framerate through machine learning. But I'm VERY sceptical about that TBH, the 2080TI has 4x more AI compute power than all XBX 52CUs combined, and it was nowhere near to be able to do that in real-time, to say politely...




But whose fault is that you're one of those shameful "insiders", who were spreading false information/seeking attention, only to turn out nothing you guys ever said was true at all, not even close? You have lost any credibility, most of those so-called "insiders" at least had honor and left, and you are still pretending like you know something others don't, c'mon... Suck it up, be a man, accept/admit your mistakes, instead of continuing that shameful route, you just damage yourself on demand, and get mad when someone calls you out, what are you trying to achieve by doing so?
What mistakes?
 

yewles1

Member
That's fine - the optics don't look good to you from your perspective and that is entirely your prerogative to define for yourself.

The demo exists - somehow Epic made it run on a PS5, the rest is arguing over one guy's word (admittedly the senior guy for Epic - so it's difficult to argue with his credibility) over a bunch of others who don't like the message he's sending but lack credibility.

Looking at the statement made by Sony in relation to this investment - it didn't name check the PS5 or the UE5 demo specifically, it referred to general gaming revenue.

It's seems people are in disbelief there isn't a deal of some sort between Epic and Sony over this demo - presumably because other (one could say more vulgar) companies would have milked it...

Imagine a more marketing focused company struggling to gain ground in their market being gifted with a free piece of incredible tech and then an investment opportunity - they'd be spamming social media everywhere with "look what we can do".

Sony hasn't done this - and that seems to be egregious to some who now go looking confirmation of a conspiracy they're convinced is taking place.

Perhaps men really didn't go to the moon, the world is flat, and Epic took their successful 3rd party engine and tailored it specifically to Sony's PS5 in a mammoth battle of brain vs underpowered tech all in an effort to secure 1.5% company stock investment while costing them billions in lost revenue on other platforms. Sure, could be that....

On the point of corporate "power" - a 1.5% holding gets Sony very little direct power. Sony are a passenger on Epic's train with such a small holding - they might get consulted beyond the 1.5% value because of their mindshare lead in the console space, but ultimately the major shareholders call the shots and where their goals align with Sony it'll be a win all round and where their goals don't align with Sony, it'll be tough luck for Sony.
They're so desperate to justify XBOX not getting as much love and attention as they expected while ignoring facts such as:

A) The majority of PC and XBOX titles are stil using UE regardless.

B) Epic had some actual say in PS5's development.
 

SgtCaffran

Member
Well for a long while this thread has been a Sony OT, where saying stuff like, PS5 won’t be 13 TF or that Epic and Sony are clearly business partners had people mass reporting you. People said that saying Github was right about 36 CUs was insta ban worthy. The problem with the thread right now is that kids are upset their circle jerk sesh got stopped
It really wouldn't be such a problem if there was actual conversation instead of trolling. It's clear why the band were there in the first place....
 
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