Support NeoGAF

[Physiognomonics]

Right; real time..... as was the Halo Infinite stuff obviously, otherwise it would have looked way better.

"In engine" alone just isn't enough info it doesn't imply it's not real time.

What ? Halo was real-time running on PC (most probably a 2080ti).

 

[Moridianae]

Can we just talk about the upcoming event, please?

Everybody still gambling on August 6th? Just because they have a multimedia thing doesn't mean SoP can't also occur. It's double exposure for them.

 

[Nickolaidas]

VFX Veteran wants to be all

But he actually comes off like

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Uhh.. yes.. you do.. it's in-engine running on PS5.

That's what it was. LOL, so you just don't know what words mean.

And get lost with this "chill out" crap. You can either make sense or I'll tell you that you aren't making sense.

Start making sense.

In-engine is literally as it implies. Its done in-engine. Do you think they opened up the decima engine, produced and captured the video all on the PS5? No they didn't.

You know when you make a video in source filmmaker? That's captured in-engine. Because its done from the engine.

Captured on the PS5 means they turned on their PS5, opened H:FW and captured it.

 

[IbelieveInGenerations]

A Guy who is delusional enough to keep posing as someone important and special for supposedly having close friends in all big teams like Epic and ND only to come here to post absurds like "there Will be a ps5 pro 2 years later that IS STILL weaker than Xbox séries X'" and yet, still has a vetted account and enourmous prestige according to some users who happen to PC fanatics like him is a sign that the world has gone mad indeed.

 

[IntentionalPun]

What ? Halo was real-time running on PC (most probably a 2080ti).

I just said halo was obviously real time.... right in that post you just quoted... lol

 

[Knitted Knight]

Oh....so you are under the impression that DF does analysis...that must be it...lol

This isn't my first rodeo with DF...in fact I myself had them admit they dont do analysis....they do more of a presentation as they talk about what they are told by the devs, they dont analyze.

So yeah, leagues ahead as I actually analyze vids by eye, not by script provided by the devs....

But hey its always best to talk about shit and not know shit..

Enjoy DF...you like bullshit analysis then that all you, no judgment here.

I'll be making sure to cut through the bullshit so gamers can know whats really going on in gaming.

They apply selective criticism when they want to, and analyze by eye to point a flaw when it pleases them. Over the course of years, a pattern builds up which more and more people eventually pick up. That's where we are today. They'll go by a dev script when they lack the knowledge to describe what's on screen or under the hood (hardware wise) OR as with Gears 5, when a title from a certain company needs that extra marketing push. We would never have known that this was the case had it not been for your video exposing the charade. To have John come here and confess to using a script... even I was surprised. I'll give him that for honesy (forced hand but still). With the case of Halo 5, the title needing damage control - same play. DF built up a niche, following and reputation for doing what others did not. It will take a while for that to change. People like NXGamer etc.. and others like you are a much needed and welcome change. Competition to put it simply. The more the better. As for Red, he bleeds green. You can expect that. All part of the battle. Do what you do.

 

[Darklor01]

In engine is basically done in the engine running almost always in the most powerful machine available one example this UE4 demonstration of 2013:


Realtime cinematic is basically the best you can in some system but in running in that system, that is the important:


About how close is a realtime cinematic to a real gameplay depends of each game.

I'm in complete agreement about stating in-engine running on the actual console hardware being a major major importantly thing. I don't recall the count, and being able to state that the trailers we saw, regardless of personal opinion of the content, were running on the console hardware is a much more important statement than in-engine in general or representative of what to expect on a console.

 

[Neo Blaster]

It seems that Insomniac owns the rights to the Spider-man games currently... and Sony bought Insomniac.

A dev studio bought Spiderman game rights? They wouldn't have the money even if they wanted to. The rights are still Marvel's, hence Disney's, unlike movie rights which are Sony's.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Except for MS who did say it was built “from the ground up” for Xsex....

There is no reason not to believe them as it was struggling at 4K and needed VRS dropping the resolution partially to 720p few meters away and make a blurry mess further.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I think you haven't read the whole story. Go back to page 2583 and see how I come in and give good discussion and then read how it turned into insults and past rhetoric.

I'm not the problem here. If I was, I would have been asked to leave by the mods a long time ago. My insights on graphics rendering and how games trick people's eyes into seeing what they want to see may not play well with a lot of the Sony guys here (as they never have been), but I'm a realist and I talk to people in the gaming industry all the time - folks that I worked with in film - that will not disclose their techniques before getting permission to. I wouldn't make such arguments if what I said didn't have a shred of truth to them. Yet, I'm constantly posting my resume, providing links to my creditals, asked to solve petty graphics problems, etc.. if you guys don't think the mods get a laugh out of all of that, you are really fooling yourselves.

You should come at me with the intent to learn something. Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment). No one even bothered to care. They just put up their fighting stance ready to pounce.

There is no HZD2 coming to either PC or PS5.

 

[Darklor01]

A dev studio bought Spiderman game rights? They wouldn't have the money even if they wanted to. The rights are still Marvel's, hence Disney's, unlike movie rights which are Sony's.

I swore I'd read that, but I can't find where I'd read it. If I'm wrong.. which certainly is possible, I'm sorry for misinformation.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Look at the hair... is it vastly different? Is the look of the game vastly different? I'm not sure I see worlds of difference between these.

Your brain isn't developed enough to grasp the downgrade. So fuck off, console peasant! PC Master Race is here! STOP FIGHTING IT!!

 

[Neo Blaster]

man this is so off topic but I'll take any Sony Spider-Man film over the first three phases of MCU

Sorry for still being off-topic but I hate MCU's Spiderman. Raimi's Spiderman forever!!!!!

Edit: damn this spell checker!!

 

[IntentionalPun]

In-engine is literally as it implies. Its done in-engine. Do you think they opened up the decima engine, produced and captured the video all on the PS5? No they didn't.

You know when you make a video in source filmmaker? That's captured in-engine. Because its done from the engine.

Captured on the PS5 means they turned on their PS5, opened H:FW and captured it.

No I think they used their engine to script out a cinematic trailer.. just like you would use your engine to script out a cinematic.

Because it's incredibly obvious that's what they did.

All of these engines contain the ability to script out cinematic sequences; like.. what in the world are you even saying in this post?

 

[Killer Sakoman]

both tlou2 and GoT got downgraded. TLOU2 with enemy faces and perfect animations, while GoT with tree quality. Both games still look better than 99.9% of games out there.

Hopefully we will get the original versions on the PS5.

I wonder if the downgrade in GOT was due to fast loading and to keep the impressive LOD quality. Both games might have PS5 version which brings back the demo quality

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

No I think they used their engine to script out a cinematic trailer.. just like you would use your engine to script out a cinematic.

Because it's incredibly obvious that's what they did.

That would have had to be done on a PC within the engine itself. Not directly on the PS5

Come on this isn't hard

 

[Mr Moose]

You're an awful prick. Fuck off with your PC. If there is any real information, as insider, then write. Although in fact, you only shit yourself a few times. No one here needs your fortune-telling and assumptions.

 

[Angel of BOOM!]

That would have had to be done on a PC within the engine itself. Not directly on the PS5

Come on this isn't hard

Possibly (esp. considering they have their engine on PC already) but not necessarily.

 

[Neo Blaster]

This ain't fun, I prefer the meme where they put Don Mattrick in the TV saying 'Please, no'.

 

[saintjules]

Not from what I saw last night

Haha, I gotta take back my video reply. Might be too much

 

[IntentionalPun]

That would have had to be done on a PC within the engine itself. Not directly on the PS5

Come on this isn't hard

OK so back to having no clue what in the world you are talking about. Why wouldn't a cinematic scripted in their engine be able to be run on PS5?

Just gonna be done with you as it's clear you are either a troll or have no idea how any of this works.

 

[JonnyMP3]

Horizon: Forbidden West new gameplay details.
Turn into a mermaid in underwater sections!

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Possibly (esp. considering they have their engine on PC already) but not necessarily.

Wait, so do you also think the opening scenes from HZD1 are in-engine?

 

[Red_Driver85]

 

[saintjules]

Hope I haven't missed anyone

Spoiler

fun fact
There is actually 4 people including Craig in the night sky, can you see the mysterious 4 person?

Uno ticket por favor

 

[Darklor01]

Horizon: Forbidden West new gameplay details.
Turn into a mermaid in underwater sections!

LOL... I forgot she has red hair. Brilliant!

 

[MasterCornholio]

This thread is going nowhere. Alot of personal attacks and petty bickering.

Can we get back to speculating please before they come to fix this?

 

[Metroiddarks]

I'm in complete agreement about stating in-engine running on the actual console hardware being a major major importantly thing. I don't recall the count, and being able to state that the trailers we saw, regardless of personal opinion of the content, were running on the console hardware is a much more important statement than in-engine in general or representative of what to expect on a console.

OK, also you are agree that argue about this is just stupid when the vast majority of this forum doesn't know even how to import an assets,create materials in any engine
but they love be armchair dev.

In my personal way to see it the trailer of horizon will be close as is possible to real gameplay, we have to remember some assets of trees of thattrailer are even the same
of the last horizon and we have to remember this is the first gen of games for this new consoles is not like Killzone Shadow Fall still be the best looking game in PS4.

Not because Xbox destroy its presentation of games release for this year and the next year, means we have to say the graphics of Sony cannot look so good I mean
if you favorite brand doesn't show any content next gen running in XSX is the fault of the business plan of Xbox not the Sony.

This people are just children trying to snatch the ball from the other because his deflated.

 

[Darklor01]

This thread is going nowhere. Alot of personal attacks and petty bickering.

Can we get back to speculating please before they come to fix this?

LOL, .. OK.. what would you like to speculate on?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Lol at the man holding it tight with both hands across his chest. If we think that's bad (in a good way) just wait for the PS5. The funny thing about Europe is that consumers are so loyal to the brand. Here in the states people would be really tempted to get an Xbox if PS is not in stock or on the shelves. Too many dudebros of the COD/Madden/NBA2k type. In Europe that shit don't fly. PS or death.

UK loves Xbox to begin with so thts not all Europe and nah broo you cappin I wouldn't be tempted to get an Xbox if ps5 was sold out at all, more like if ps5 was sold out you guys would be more tempted to get nextbox due to your love of fútbol and kicking things Most would die if thy couldn't play the latest Fifa game

 

[JonnyMP3]

LOL... I forgot she has red hair. Brilliant!

I gotcho back, Cap'n!

 

[JonnyMP3]

This thread is going nowhere. Alot of personal attacks and petty bickering.

Can we get back to speculating please before they come to fix this?

PUT THAT DOWN NOW!
IT'S 2020 FFS!

 

[VFXVeteran]

Regarding Hair, .. look only as far back as The Witcher 3 on PC for how much was made about advances with Hair. ... Back to HZD..

Here's the initial reveal:


Here's the gameplay trailer:


Launch Trailer:


Look at the hair... is it vastly different? Is the look of the game vastly different? I'm not sure I see worlds of difference between these.

Yes.

Look at the screenshot I took of the cinematics.

Notice how the hair shading has 3 lobes: 1 diffuse lobe, and 2 specular lobes. The shading looks a lot more varied and natural. In the gameplay it looks like they painted in the specular terms and only use diffuse for the hair as the highlights are always at the tips (which is not correct) no matter what angle the sun hits it.

Btw, I just want to note that games don't render actual hair curves. They are a clump of plane strips that are semi-transparent. It's far more efficient to render this than actual geometry individual hair strands.

 

[Vae_Victis]

That would have had to be done on a PC within the engine itself. Not directly on the PS5

Come on this isn't hard

When you are playing a game on a console, and there is a cinematic, it's obviously running on the console, right? This is the same thing. It doesn't matter if they programmed and scripted the scenes with a PC or directly through an editor accessible on the devkit, the point is that a SCRIPTED scene is RUNNING on a PS5. This is what we saw in the trailer for the most part.

Does that mean a PS5 can run that in real time? Yes. Does it also automatically mean that any scene in the game, including full-player-control gameplay, can reproduce an 100% identical result with ALL the effects and everything? Not necessarely, because when you are not in a scripted scene more things are or could be happening at any time, more of the environment will be loaded, the AI will be running and using CPU etc.

This is the point of differentiating between "in engine, running in real time on a PS5" and "in game on a PS5". We know that everything in the trailer was AT LEAST "in engine", a few shots here and there were most likely "in game".

So does the game look good even outside of cinematics? Definitely yes. But a few of the finer details could and most likely will be scaled down a bit during the action, like for example the water flowing in real time with very fine particles/fluids simulation off the shell of the turtle robot when it emerges from the swamp, or the models of the crabs (like the two on the dead fish).

 

[Darklor01]

OK, also you are agree that argue about this is just stupid when the vast majority of this forum doesn't know even how to import an assets,create materials in any engine
but they love be armchair dev.

In my personal way to see it the trailer of horizon will be close as is possible to real gameplay, we have to remember some assets of trees of thattrailer are even the same
of the last horizon and we have to remember this is the first gen of games for this new consoles is not like Killzone Shadow Fall still be the best looking game in PS4.

Not because Xbox destroy its presentation of games release for this year and the next year, means we have to say the graphics of Sony cannot look so good I mean
if you favorite brand doesn't show any content next gen running in XSX is the fault of the business plan of Xbox not the Sony.

This people are just children trying to snatch the ball from the other because his deflated.

Well, I think any debate without any real way to back up the statements is pointless. I mean, parroting rhetoric someone else tells someone that they decide is gospel for just... well..reasons.. is to fail to be able to think for yourself. You wind up spinning in circles deflecting in conversation and changing the subject or moving goalposts.

I believe that the in-engine trailers running on PS5 hardware or captured on PS5 hardware trailers are reasonably representative of what to expect. In regards to HZD, I posted the three trailers reveal, gameplay, launch, and they were largely the same. I would expect much the same result with HFW.

XBOX didn't destroy it's presentation of games. The games just are not ready, and it showed. What MS did wrong was to hype the F out of the shows and when people expected XSX games to be shown and be running on XSX hardware.. when they got something else, the sky fell. They did nothing to prepare anyone for what they should expect. They should have simply said, we're going to have some game announcements, and show other games which you can get from the store soon or now.

People will war to support their causes. That's human nature and we can't prevent that. It's more interesting how people become that invested in warring over particular gaming platforms as very personal to them.

 

[Knitted Knight]

UK loves Xbox to begin with so thts not all Europe and nah broo you cappin I wouldn't be tempted to get an Xbox if ps5 was sold out at all, more like if ps5 was sold out you guys would be more tempted to get nextbox due to your love of fútbol and kicking things ❤❤❤ Most would die if thy couldn't play the latest Fifa game

MS check cleared. It's what it's.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I was keeping up with the entire conversation the whole time through, and read it again now for clarity. Point in fact, I tried to have a more common shared knowledge, non-technical level discussion with you. It didn't go very far. In the end, you decided to say you as a film VFX expert know more than Video Game industry professionals. How did you think that would play out?

Below are my viewpoints of the many pages of discussion:

• You were having a proper discussion and at points, were attacked.
• Your views sound more fact based than opinion. I might suggest, if you give a statement about what you're seeing and why, you provide some technical background example of what you're seeing to help the people understand. Help those who would attack your view to understand why you believe it to be so. Please keep in mind, though you have knowledge in many vfx related industries and have held positions, others in the gaming industry state differently than you. I would not want to discredit you and I would not want to discredit them. As you aren't developing the games being discussed and don't have the hardware, you wouldn't know what's going on in a game other than recognizing what VFX and tech are being used to achieve something on levels you have knowledge of. Just.. visual cues.
• Your biases are very visible. It may be a good suggestion to be a bit more even in your viewpoints. They are just as valid as those of anyone else, .. until they aren't, and the same goes for them.
• Comparing apples and oranges game types with completely different parameters just doesn't make sense. The same goes for anyone else when I read it. I wouldn't compare a fighting game's visuals with those of a racing game...etc.
• Throwing out who know know does not lend credibility to anything you're saying. Throwing out what you know and how you know it with back up does.

If you want to be thought of as a proper source of knowledge, demonstrate it.

Fair enough. But follow me and see how even with a calm and level head, I try to explain and will get attacked anyway. Just keep following.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

When you are playing a game on a console, and there is a cinematic, it's obviously running on the console, right? This is the same thing. It doesn't matter if they programmed and scripted the scenes with a PC or directly through an editor accessible on the devkit, the point is that a SCRIPTED scene is RUNNING on a PS5. This is what we saw in the trailer for the most part.

Does that mean a PS5 can run that in real time? Yes. Does it also automatically mean that any scene in the game, including full-player-control gameplay, can reproduce an 100% identical result with ALL the effects and everything? Not necessarely, because when you are not in a scripted scene more things are or could be happening at any time, more of the environment will be loaded, the AI will be running and using CPU etc.

This is the point of differentiating between "in engine, running in real time on a PS5" and "in game on a PS5". We know that everything in the trailer was AT LEAST "in engine", a few shots here and there were most likely "in game".

So does the game look good even outside of cinematics? Definitely yes. But a few of the finer details could and most likely will be scaled down a bit during the action, like for example the water flowing in real time with very fine particles/fluids simulation off the shell of the turtle robot when it emerges from the swamp, or the models of the crabs (like the two on the dead fish).

in-game literally means it was captured in-game. That means within the game itself, including the cinematics and the gameplay. In-engine would mean they captured it within the engine itself.

Are you going to call God of Wars cinematics in-engine too just because they're scripted?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

The really weird thing about not preparing people for what to expect is this is the second time they've done it. For whatever reason they've done two shows in so many months where most of us were expecting some kind of real next gen games showcase. I really think the main thing helping Sony's showcase was the messaging was better for preparing us for what wed get.

 

[Neo Blaster]

I’ve got him and Eastwood on ignore for, at least, the next month or two. Neither has said anything useful for a while, may unmute when all the next gen cards have been played and we're ready for launch.

Need more signal and less noise right now.

I have both on ignore too, but it means nothing if they drag everyone else to the mess they make. Suddenly no one talks about anything else but them.

 

[Knitted Knight]

The really weird thing about not preparing people for what to expect is this is the second time they've done it. For whatever reason they've done two shows in so many months where most of us were expecting some kind of real next gen games showcase. I really think the main thing helping Sony's showcase was the messaging was better for preparing us for what wed get.

I don't ever wanna hear people talking trash about E3. We need these public, hands-on events. Cut away all the crap.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Here's the first technical question for you. Why does the ideal spec for FS2020 require a SSD if simply having more ram is enough? It asks for 32 GB of ram, but still requires a SSD regardless.

My guess would be that it has to do with loading. I won't know for sure until I get the sim but I think having an SSD would be better than having an HDD to store a game under any circumstance. The only real way to gauge is to test the game's performance with everything being left constant (GPU and CPU and RAM). It's a good question.

 

[Geruda065]

Guys i have question about next gen capabilities. There are rumors about halo pvp being 120fps. Do you guys think new consoles can run Destiny 2 at 120 fps at least in pvp? Can a cpu-gpu handle it maybe at 1080p? Just curious since i can run Destiny 2 at 1080p, 120fps on a i5, 1660ti laptop.

 

[Mod of War]

You're an awful prick. Fuck off with your PC. If there is any real information, as insider, then write. Although in fact, you only shit yourself a few times. No one here needs your fortune-telling and assumptions.

Knock off the name calling theatrics.

You can argue your points without regressing to that level of discourse.

 

[Voidout]

I think you haven't read the whole story. Go back to page 2583 and see how I come in and give good discussion and then read how it turned into insults and past rhetoric.

I'm not the problem here. If I was, I would have been asked to leave by the mods a long time ago. My insights on graphics rendering and how games trick people's eyes into seeing what they want to see may not play well with a lot of the Sony guys here (as they never have been), but I'm a realist and I talk to people in the gaming industry all the time - folks that I worked with in film - that will not disclose their techniques before getting permission to. I wouldn't make such arguments if what I said didn't have a shred of truth to them. Yet, I'm constantly posting my resume, providing links to my creditals, asked to solve petty graphics problems, etc.. if you guys don't think the mods get a laugh out of all of that, you are really fooling yourselves.

You should come at me with the intent to learn something. Never once has anyone asked me why I think that HZD1 on PC might rival HZD2 on PS5 (let's forget about HZD2 coming to PC for a moment). No one even bothered to care. They just put up their fighting stance ready to pounce.

So HZD2 is coming to PC now? Is this a rumor or speculation

 

[Darius87]

The PC *is* a platform that will allow graphics rendering to be pushed further than any other platform. If a console can't do ray-traced shadows because it's too expensive, the PC can. If the console can't run a game at 60FPS because it's too expensive, the PC has the ability to do run it. That's just the nature of the platform. Stop fighting it! It has NOTHING to do with PCMR!! It's a blanket fact that I recognize.

while high end PC's have better capabilities then consoles it will never be pushed to those capabilities because of many setups consoles actually pushed to it's limits every generation.

You will never have a scenario where a console does something that the top tier hardware can not. Yet, that's what you preach on a day to day basis leaning on the "EXCLUSIVES" to be your justification. If the game never comes out on another platform, then you can always say, "This game is the best looking game of EVERY game out there and it's ONLY available on this console". That arrogance is what many Xbox fans and other PC fans HATE about the Sony guys.

but it never be a scenario that a game will be made for top tier PC which will be utilized to it's fullest capabilities. that's the cost of many configurations PC hardware needs a showcase games which are made with top tier gfx cards in mind otherwise sony exclusives always win in that department add SSD next-gen that's another hurdle pc has to go over increasing console value even more.

Well, that argument isn't going to hold water anymore this new generation. I didn't decide to release these games on the PC. Sony and MS did.

it hold even more because of PS5 SSD there isn't equivalent one on PC and won't be in upcoming couple of years. There's isn't any next-gen first party exclusive confirmed for PC also.
As for now any rational human being can see that there isn't any game that will be released that looks better then Horizon 2 on PS5 you can argue as much as you wan't but at these post Tflops times it's not required to have nvidia titans to have best looking games you only need talented devs which seems PC, MS lacks of.

 

[Darklor01]

Yes.

Look at the screenshot I took of the cinematics.

Notice how the hair shading has 3 lobes: 1 diffuse lobe, and 2 specular lobes. The shading looks a lot more varied and natural. In the gameplay it looks like they painted in the specular terms and only use diffuse for the hair as the highlights are always at the tips (which is not correct) no matter what angle the sun hits it.

Btw, I just want to note that games don't render actual hair curves. They are a clump of plane strips that are semi-transparent. It's far more efficient to render this than actual geometry individual hair strands.

Evident for sure shown like this. I wouldn't say it was worlds different enough to think the first shot wasn't representative of what to expect in game, other than optimization downgrades. Same with something like GoT. That's why I still think what we're seeing in HFW in engine trailer running on PS5 hardware is still much representative of what we could expect for the most part.

I see some of these same things in the hair in the underwater scuba scene, and again, still think it would be pretty representative by comparison of what to expect on console.

 

[SaucyJack]

UK loves Xbox to begin with so thts not all Europe and nah broo you cappin I wouldn't be tempted to get an Xbox if ps5 was sold out at all, more like if ps5 was sold out you guys would be more tempted to get nextbox due to your love of fútbol and kicking things ❤❤❤ Most would die if thy couldn't play the latest Fifa game

Notwithstanding that the U.K. isn’t in Europe any more the UK doesnt love Xbox. We did love it for about half a generation back in 2005 or so. But we Brits are a fickle bunch.

 

[Darklor01]

Fair enough. But follow me and see how even with a calm and level head, I try to explain and will get attacked anyway. Just keep following.

It's likely going to happen. Just put those people on ignore. You'll either prove your points outright and people will shush, or you'll be called out on various levels for what you say. I'm corrected all the time... as I should be when I'm not right.