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[FeiRR]

yeah i guess i was expecting to hear about exciting hardware customizations but we mostly just got confirmation of the numbers going around. I do find it interesting how MS is limiting power draw to 200w same as current gen.

I think it is because of the simple cooling solution they chose and because they want to keep it quiet. It's also the first time (at least since X360, I don't remember how it was with X OG) that they put the PSU inside the console. When you think that an APU with 12 TF power, RT and almost 4 GHz CPU can be <200 W nowadays... I once had a Radeon (1800 XT I think it was) that drew more than that and raised temperature in my room by a few degrees every time I ran a demanding game. Technological progress is amazing. Still, what a waste of resources to make such a console and no games for it.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

There's a whole thread about it. To sum it up for you: powerful hardware with no software.

But hey, they have Flight Simulator. Photorealistic graphics and 90+ on Metacritic. GOTY contender according to some.

 

[FeiRR]

But hey, they have Flight Simulator. Photorealistic graphics and 90+ on Metacritic. GOTY contender according to some.

Did I miss the Xbox release?

 

[Dee_Dee]

Such a greatly engineered piece of tech with no software to show it off until late 2022/early 2023. What a shame. Maybe some 3rd parties will be able to show how capable it is until Xbox 1st party stuff finally comes out.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

But hey, they have Flight Simulator. Photorealistic graphics and 90+ on Metacritic. GOTY contender according to some.

Flight Simulator lol that's not a game dude. It's a simulator.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Did I miss the Xbox release?

Everyone did, but that doesn't stop some people from praising it just because is a Microsoft game. And I find funny the fact that some of them critized Dreams for "not really being a game" but use Flight Sim. as the proof that MS can have highly rated games, oh the irony. Now everyone is a pilot and simulator enthisiasts all of the sudden.

 

[TBiddy]

Flight Simulator lol that's not a game dude. It's a simulator.

That's a hot take. I assume you think GT isn't a simulator as well.

 

[FeiRR]

Everyone did, but that doesn't stop some people from praising it just because is a Microsoft game. And I find funny the fact that some of them critized Dreams for "not really being a game" but use Flight Sim. as the proof that MS can have highly rated games, oh the irony. Now everyone is a pilot and simulator enthisiasts all of the sudden.

Does it really surprise you? I don't blame children for making noise and running around like headless chickens. Comes with the age.

 

[zaitsu]

Everyone did, but that doesn't stop some people from praising it just because is a Microsoft game. And I find funny the fact that some of them critized Dreams for "not really being a game" but use Flight Sim. as the proof that MS can have highly rated games, oh the irony. Now everyone is a pilot and simulator enthisiasts all of the sudden.

Its best simulator you can get right now.
I just prefer games.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

That's a hot take. I assume you think GT isn't a simulator as well.

Yup, IMO Flight Simulator is a game but it is aimed at a very specific audience who really enjoys piloting and sims. A lot of the more average Xbox people/fans who are praising the game are not even going to play it until it releases on an Xbox console, and even then they're just going to fly above their houses and that's all.

 

[Zoro7]

Yup, IMO Flight Simulator is a game but it is aimed at a very specific audience who really enjoys piloting and sims. A lot of the more average Xbox people/fans who are praising the game are not even going to play it until it releases on an Xbox console, and even then they're just going to fly above their houses and that's all.

100% this. No one gave a shit about FS for many years except a small number of fans.
Now that a new version comes out looking "next gen" everyone seems to care. I don't for a second believe 99% of people will play more than a couple of hours before getting bored.

 

[FeiRR]

Yup, IMO Flight Simulator is a game but it is aimed at a very specific audience who really enjoys piloting and sims. A lot of the more average Xbox people/fans who are praising the game are not even going to play it until it releases on an Xbox console, and even then they're just going to fly above their houses and that's all.

Is it a game though? I watch quite a lot flight sims on Twitch but never noticed anyone using any game modes in them (except for military sims). The usual scenario is flying from an airport X to an airport Y. There's no scoring, competition, race, all those things that make a game.

 

[TBiddy]

Yup, IMO Flight Simulator is a game but it is aimed at a very specific audience who really enjoys piloting and sims. A lot of the more average Xbox people/fans who are praising the game are not even going to play it until it releases on an Xbox console, and even then they're just going to fly above their houses and that's all.

I agree.

 

[kyliethicc]

But hey, they have Flight Simulator. Photorealistic graphics and 90+ on Metacritic. GOTY contender according to some.

PC only,

 

[kyliethicc]

That's a hot take. I assume you think GT isn't a simulator as well.

Is there any form of competition in Flight Sim at all? Like is there multiplayer or at least asynchronous mp?

 

[farmerboy]

Flight Simulator graphics are legit.

And sims are games too.

 

[Jose92]

edit :

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So looks like the 25% IPC improvement in RDNA 2 was true, this is good just as @BGs said.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1599...ft-xbox-series-x-system-architecture-600pm-pt

So that XSX almost equals to a RTX 2080 in rasterization was not so crazy, good I don't want NVIDIA win so easily (I almost sure they will still win).

It doesn't clarify in the live blog or the comments if the 25% GPU perf/clock compared to 'last gen' is referring to RDNA1 or Xbox One X (Polaris).

I would hope it is the former of course, but you never know.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

That's a hot take. I assume you think GT isn't a simulator as well.

Oh please. The clue is in the name.

EDIT:
'Microsoft Flight Simulator is a series of amateur flight simulator programs for Microsoft Windows operating systems, and earlier for MS-DOS and Classic Mac OS. It is one of the longest-running, best-known, and most comprehensive home flight simulator programs on the market. '

Microsoft Flight Simulator - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No, it's not what you traditionally call 'a game'.

 

[kyliethicc]

Flight Simulator graphics are legit.

And sims are games too.

But what is the game? What is the challenge to win? What’s the enemy to beat? What’s the equivalent to the moons I can get in Mario Odyssey? Or winning a race in GT or Mario Kart? Or killing a boss in Sekiro?

Like is it literally just using computer graphics to create a digital plane to fly (as an alternative to flying in real life) or is there some form of competition? Multiplayer? any level of ranking/leaderboards? High scores? Is there a fail state for a flight like “make it there in 2 hours or else” or something? Like what’s the game? At least in FIFA I can lose. It’s a sport. Same with Forza Motorsport.

To me, chess is a game. And Pulp Fiction is a video (movie). Games are just games and videos are just videos. But video games have to be both a video (compute graphics) and some form of game/sport (win/lose/challenge). Like Tetris. Or Knack.

I’ve never played Flight Sim but I saw my brother try a Train Sim thing back in like 2002 or something and that wasnt a game. He just drove a train until he got bored and turned it off. There was nothing going on. No way to lose. It just existed until he got bored.

 

[zaitsu]

Enthusiast price 599$ confirmed

 

[FeiRR]

Enthusiast price 599$ confirmed

I think they made a huge mistake not calling it Xbox El33t.

 

[Nickolaidas]

"PS5 is not our competition"

That is why we have no need to outsell them. By the way, does anyone know how much the PS5 will cost?

No one?

And the Digital edition?

That's exactly what I said on purexbox.

Needless to say, my comment was not well received.

 

[Dodkrake]

Is this legit? If so, why is the backwards compatibility section different? Are they really distinguishing between Series X exclusives and Next-gen support?

Edit: Forgot to mention - If the XSX comes at 599, it's DOA.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Is this legit? If so, why is the backwards compatibility section different? Are they really distinguishing between Series X exclusives and Next-gen support?

My question as well. Why does the Series S not have 'Series X exclusives' and instead says 'next gen support'? What's the difference?

 

[TBiddy]

Oh please. The clue is in the name.

EDIT:
'Microsoft Flight Simulator is a series of amateur flight simulator programs for Microsoft Windows operating systems, and earlier for MS-DOS and Classic Mac OS. It is one of the longest-running, best-known, and most comprehensive home flight simulator programs on the market. '

Microsoft Flight Simulator - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

No, it's not what you traditionally call 'a game'.

Two can play that game;

For those of us on dark mode it says "GRAN TURISMO - REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR"

 

[kyliethicc]

Is this legit? If so, why is the backwards compatibility section different? Are they really distinguishing between Series X exclusives and Next-gen support?

Edit: Forgot to mention - If the XSX comes at 599, it's DOA.

Considering that chart was made by someone who thinks the “greater than” sign is the “less than” sign, don’t trust it for exact specs. But perhaps they mean Series X will have a few next gen games that even Series S won’t support. Idk, that’s what it implies.

 

[Dodkrake]

My question as well. Why does the Series S not have 'Series X exclusives' and instead says 'next gen support'? What's the difference?

Even better: Why don't both say "Next Gen exclusives"? This could be a marketing moniker for 12 year olds to say "Buy me the Series X because exclusives" when in reality they all play the same games, or it could be legit exclusivity, which will create further fragmentation (Series X / Series S / PC). What a shitshow.

In any case, I'm liking the Series S. May actually end up buying one if I don't end up upgrading my GPU / CPU stack. Will depend on price, I can probably still get 100 to 150 bucks for my Ryzen 1600 and my GTX 1060.

 

[kyliethicc]

Two can play that game.

Yeah but it’s a sport, a game. We can race each other and win or lose. It’s Mario kart with photo real graphics. Don’t be a troll.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

yeah i guess i was expecting to hear about exciting hardware customizations but we mostly just got confirmation of the numbers going around. I do find it interesting how MS is limiting power draw to 200w same as current gen.

I think it is because of the simple cooling solution they chose and because they want to keep it quiet. It's also the first time (at least since X360, I don't remember how it was with X OG) that they put the PSU inside the console. When you think that an APU with 12 TF power, RT and almost 4 GHz CPU can be <200 W nowadays... I once had a Radeon (1800 XT I think it was) that drew more than that and raised temperature in my room by a few degrees every time I ran a demanding game. Technological progress is amazing. Still, what a waste of resources to make such a console and no games for it.

Isn't the reason for the power draw rather defined by various environmental laws that define/restrict how much power a video game console can draw?

 

[kyliethicc]

I think they made a huge mistake not calling it Xbox El33t.

Xbox Series X Elite for $600 in 2023, place your bets now.

 

[TBiddy]

Yeah but it’s a sport, a game. We can race each other and win or lose. It’s Mario kart with photo real graphics. Don’t be a troll.

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out how weak his argument was.

Of course GT is a game. So is FS2020.

 

[Thief1987]

Great overview with incorrect information like "8 core, 16 thread Zen2 CPU @3.8GHz", yeah Warren?

 

[FeiRR]

Isn't the reason for the power draw rather defined by various environmental laws that define/restrict how much power a video game console can draw?

You're right. I thought those restrictions only applied to the stand-by mode but they are much more detailed.

Edit: but after quick scanning of the document, I see regulations only for navigation and media playback modes, nothing about game modes or am I missing it?

 

[zaitsu]

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out how weak his argument was.

Of course GT is a game. So is FS2020.

I have a young pilot in family. He started on flight simulator. He hates games. When you called his precious simulator a game you were getting punch in the face.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out how weak his argument was.

Of course GT is a game. So is FS2020.

Your argument is weak you troll. FS is not even on Xbox, is it?

 

[TBiddy]

Your argument is weak you troll. FS is not even on Xbox, is it?

What?

There are online leaderboards, challenges and missions in FS2020. How is that not a game?

And no, it's not on Xbox yet. What is your point?

 

[Dodkrake]

Conspiracy time

XSS - 4TF RDNA 2
XSX - 12TF RDNA 2

1440p - 3 686 400 pixels
4k - 8 294 400 pixels

Conclusion

The Xbox Series X is 3X the TF count and will be churning 2.25X the Pixels. Accounting for some efficiency loss due to higher CU counts, couldn't this mean that whatever "graphics" look like in the Series S, we should expect around the same in the Series X? This could either be good or bad, so don't go around and say "FUD, he's saying the Series X is a glorified 4TF machine". Nothing like that. The Series S can churn 4k as well, like the lesser powered One X, but assuming the same game targeting those resolutions, they should look roughly the same?

Can a dev keep me honest here?

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out how weak his argument was.

Of course GT is a game. So is FS2020.

But what is the game? What is the challenge to win? What’s the enemy to beat? What’s the equivalent to the moons I can get in Mario Odyssey? Or winning a race in GT or Mario Kart? Or killing a boss in Sekiro?

Like is it literally just using computer graphics to create a digital plane to fly (as an alternative to flying in real life) or is there some form of competition? Multiplayer? any level of ranking/leaderboards? High scores? Is there a fail state for a flight like “make it there in 2 hours or else” or something? Like what’s the game? At least in FIFA I can lose. It’s a sport. Same with Forza Motorsport.

To me, chess is a game. And Pulp Fiction is a video (movie). Games are just games and videos are just videos. But video games have to be both a video (compute graphics) and some form of game/sport (win/lose/challenge). Like Tetris. Or Knack.

I’ve never played Flight Sim but I saw my brother try a Train Sim thing back in like 2002 or something and that wasnt a game. He just drove a train until he got bored and turned it off. There was nothing going on. No way to lose. It just existed until he got bored.

 

[FeiRR]

Since we have no significant news, how about we speculate a bit? What are your predictions for launch bundles of new consoles?

On the PS5 side, the most obvious choice would be a Spiderman: Miles Morales bundle (which is also rumoured to include the previous SM game). Another possibility would be COD because we know Sony has a marketing deal. And of course someone's going to mention a Bugsnax bundle so I'll do it first.

On the Xbox Series X I think we can expect a BC bundle with GP sub for 3 months and an AC: Valhalla bundle. Any other ideas?

 

[TBiddy]

But what is the game? What is the challenge to win? What’s the enemy to beat? What’s the equivalent to the moons I can get in Mario Odyssey? Or winning a race in GT or Mario Kart? Or killing a boss in Sekiro?

Like is it literally just using computer graphics to create a digital plane to fly (as an alternative to flying in real life) or is there some form of competition? Multiplayer? any level of ranking/leaderboards? High scores? Is there a fail state for a flight like “make it there in 2 hours or else” or something? Like what’s the game? At least in FIFA I can lose. It’s a sport. Same with Forza Motorsport.

To me, chess is a game. And Pulp Fiction is a video (movie). Games are just games and videos are just videos. But video games have to be both a video (compute graphics) and some form of game/sport (win/lose/challenge). Like Tetris. Or Knack.

I’ve never played Flight Sim but I saw my brother try a Train Sim thing back in like 2002 or something and that wasnt a game. He just drove a train until he got bored and turned it off. There was nothing going on. No way to lose. It just existed until he got bored.

There are challenges with online leaderbords, along with missions. Comparing it to a platformer or an RPG is unreasonable.

 

[Dolomite]

 

[HawarMiran]

Is this legit? If so, why is the backwards compatibility section different? Are they really distinguishing between Series X exclusives and Next-gen support?

Edit: Forgot to mention - If the XSX comes at 599, it's DOA.

Why doesn't it list the Xbox Serious L?

 

[Dodkrake]

But what is the game? What is the challenge to win? What’s the enemy to beat? What’s the equivalent to the moons I can get in Mario Odyssey? Or winning a race in GT or Mario Kart? Or killing a boss in Sekiro?

Like is it literally just using computer graphics to create a digital plane to fly (as an alternative to flying in real life) or is there some form of competition? Multiplayer? any level of ranking/leaderboards? High scores? Is there a fail state for a flight like “make it there in 2 hours or else” or something? Like what’s the game? At least in FIFA I can lose. It’s a sport. Same with Forza Motorsport.

To me, chess is a game. And Pulp Fiction is a video (movie). Games are just games and videos are just videos. But video games have to be both a video (compute graphics) and some form of game/sport (win/lose/challenge). Like Tetris. Or Knack.

I’ve never played Flight Sim but I saw my brother try a Train Sim thing back in like 2002 or something and that wasnt a game. He just drove a train until he got bored and turned it off. There was nothing going on. No way to lose. It just existed until he got bored.

Flight sim is a game. Train Sim is a game. Simulator games try to get as close to real life because that's the objective of the game, play with close to real life sets of rules and achieve the same tasks a professional would achieve.

 

[Dolomite]

Flight sim is a game. Train Sim is a game. Simulator games try to get as close to real life because that's the objective of the game, play with close to real life sets of rules and achieve the same tasks a professional would achieve.

Almost like how.... racing Sims are games?

 

[silent head]

 

[kyliethicc]

There are challenges with online leaderbords, along with missions. Comparing it to a platformer or an RPG is unreasonable.

No, comparing it to any game is reasonable if it’s also game. All games share basic structural elements. That was all I was asking about. So if you say there are boards and challenges, then I’ll say sure it’s a game. No worries. Thanks.

 

[kyliethicc]

Almost like how.... racing Sims are games?

Racing is a sport. Winning and losing. Competition. Not the same thing. Motorsport is a sport. It’s more than just a driving simulation, it’s simulating the sport. A competition. Mario Kart and GT and Forza are all sports games, same as FIFA NBA and Rocket League, even Fall Guys. A flying sim is different, but it doesn’t matter.

 

[FeiRR]

Racing is a sport. Winning and losing. Competition. Not the same thing. Motorsport is a sport. It’s more than just a driving simulation, it’s simulating the sport. A competition. Mario Kart and GT and Forza are all sports games, same as FIFA NBA and Rocket League, even Fall Guys. A flying sim is different, but it doesn’t matter.

NeoGAF is a browser game. You write posts and try to dodge bans brought by mods. Some people succeed, others fail, you get points (reaction scores). It's also cross-platform multiplayer.

Let it go

 

[kyliethicc]

Anyone surprised Tom Warren is saying Series S GPU is 20 CUs at 1.55 GHz? Will that really be enough to target 1440p or will it need to settle for 1080p?