-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
- Status
Killer Sakoman
Member
Investor9872
Member
I think the two next-gen consoles at most were always going to launch at $450 - $500.
DeepSpace5D
Member
Exactly, and I agree. Releasing for $600 today is not the same as releasing for that amount when the PS3 was released. It is, though, still quite a jump from what the PS4 launched at.
I guess it just doesn’t feel like a $600 PS5 and a $500 DE lines up with what they’ve said regarding wanting to sell 10 million units in record time or wanting it to be the smoothest transition between console generations ever. Although I don’t doubt they would still sell out at those prices.
Neo Blaster
Member
Jim seems to contradict himself really hard, there's this quote and there's the fast adoption one. Unless he's taking their brand strength for granted like they did on PS3 launch, there's no fast adoption at those prices.
Last edited:
Gamerguy84
Member
At this point I could care less about price and Im not Richy McRich face.
I get it, both MS and Sony went all out in tech to give us something good.
How about they split the loss with us. We all remember when Sony took a $260 loss on PS3 per unit. It was when the economy tanked hard and Sony was getting beat down on all hardware. TVs, smartphones, cameras were bleeding money from them.
They are both in a position to take a loss because theyll make it up easy. So just put a price tag on it already and let us preorder.
I get it, both MS and Sony went all out in tech to give us something good.
How about they split the loss with us. We all remember when Sony took a $260 loss on PS3 per unit. It was when the economy tanked hard and Sony was getting beat down on all hardware. TVs, smartphones, cameras were bleeding money from them.
They are both in a position to take a loss because theyll make it up easy. So just put a price tag on it already and let us preorder.
Lying? I doubt it. The RSX probably had a totally different topology compared to PC GPUs from that era since it was specifically designed for an unconventional heterogeneous CPU that blurs the line between itself and GPUs...
"The RSX is designed to work closely with [the Playstation 3's Cell processor] in a closed-system environment"... "The Cell processor has multiple processors that can execute different threads and produce geometry, texture, and shader information for the RSX to consume." -- Jen-Hsun Huang (quotes are from another forum, so not going to link)
Wrapping CELL up in the RSX? Sure, David Shippy did it too...
"Again, they're completely different models. So in the PS3, you've got this Cell chip which has massive parallel processing power, the PowerPC core, multiple SPU cores… it's got a GPU that is, in the model here, processing more in the Cell chip and less in the GPU. So that's one processing paradigm -- a heterogeneous paradigm." -- David Shippy
By the way, the Shippy quote I pulled came from an article of him clearing the record on his book.
If by "Sony rasterizer" you mean the 1 Ghz GPU that Toshiba designed for PS3 but couldn't produce in sufficient yields, then yeah the plan fell apart. If you're referring to a CELL-based GPU Kutaragi supposedly had in mind for PS3 initially, then that's a fallacy. I touched on it in a prior post...
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
I wanna see a new tomb raider with Abby from tlou2 as the main character. Can you imagine the climbing sequences, bounding over mountains in a single pull. That's just wrong. Laura must remain the typical supermodel archeologist type.www.neogaf.com
That's a myth. The entire point of the CELL Broadband Engine was to create a general purpose CPU capable of mimicking the functionality of a cellular neural network (CNN) -- a once novel parallel computing paradigm first proposed by Leon Chua and Lin Yang in 1987. Here's some takeaways from their paper....
- The key features of neural networks are asynchronous parallel processing, continuous-time dy-namics, and global interaction of network elements.
- Some encouraging if not impressive applications of neural net- works have been proposed for various fields such as opti- mization, linear and nonlinear programming, associative memory, pattern recognition and computer vision [5]-[12].
- Cellular neural networks share the best features of both worlds; its continuous time feature allows real-time signal processing found wanting in the digital domain and its local interconnection feature makes it tailor made for VLSI implementation.
- Cellular neural networks are uniquely suited for high-speed parallel signal processing.
- Conventional digital computation methods have run into a serious speed bottleneck due to their serial nature. To overcome ths problem, a new computation model, called “neural networks,” has been proposed, which is based on some aspects of neurobiology and adapted to integrated circuits [2]-[4].
The features and applications bolded in the takeaways can be found on CELL-related presentation slides from IBM...
and if you read some of Kutaragi's interviews, you'll find that he used similar language to Chua and Lang when discussing his objectives for CELL and its nature within the context of a network...
"The idea of a computer architecture that emulates living organisms struck me as I was swimming through a sea of ideas. A network made of cells that works like a single computer? I felt this wild urge to try out that sort of thing." -- Ken Kutaragi
"The chip came out far beyond my expectations. When this product was launched, I set out a number of propositions, like "I want distant cells on earth connecting and communicating with each other organically," "there should be object-oriented ideas,"" -- Ken Kutaragi
So no, a PS2 on steroids wasn't the thing Kutaragi was chasing when he realized the CELL Broadband Engine. He was in pursuit of an architecture that would fundamentally change computing in hopes of changing the digital landscape on a global scale. It was his hope since the '80s (the decade Chua and Lang submitted their paper on cellular neural networks to the IEEE) and PS3 was the vessel he literally put his hope in...
EET: Then the Cell processor was conceived for gaming? -- EETimes
Kutaragi: No, it is for computing but I wanted to change the concept of computers. The name of our company is Sony Computer Entertainment; I wanted to merge computer technology and entertainment. It may be regarded as game applications for the time being, but I wanted to realize the day when “computer entertainment” would mean all such entertainment applications, including games"... "The PS1 and PS2 were based on computer technology, but they were still transitional. At the next stage, I hoped to tackle computer technology from the start. I have harbored that hope since the 1980s." -- Ken Kutaragi
"Though sold as a game console, what will in fact enter the home is a Cell-based computer." -- Ken Kutaragi
To partially reiterate and end, Kutaragi's ultimate goal with the CELL Broadband Engine (not to be reached until around year 2026/27 by my estimate)...
was to birth a neural network-based AI for the creation, management and distribution of music, movies, games and other digital content from/to any location in the world upon request (be it verbal or non-verbal) using a variety of devices...
"The model image for the Cell-based network may be the Internet: Servers around the world form one virtual “computer,” and each PC accesses it. One Cell or cluster of Cells can also function as a server; but whereas the present Internet mainly handles characters, applications on the Cell network will also handle semantics and reasoning." -- Ken Kutaragi
I feel your anguish bro! Only if Sony stuck with CELL we may have been seeing some really incredible stuff this generation that would have been closer to next gen being shown now! Tho Sony's 1st party Devs learnt to master the SPU's, Sony would have been left far behind on third party games and likely not survived the market. So had no choice to go the x86 route to survive, shame!
Realistically x86 ISA is on its way out, I believe there's s good chance Sony will go ARM with PS6. They're not just for low power mobiles anymore, they're getting deeper pipelines bigger caches and heavier SIMD vector instructions. Apple are making the most powerful commercially used ARMs which they're confident to eventually replace the Intel X86 used in their desktops. And ARMs are used for the world's most powerful supercomputer!
Fujitsu, Japan strong-Arm their way to the top with world's fastest-known super: 415-PFLOPS Fugaku
That big Arm news you were all expecting today, right?
www.theregister.com
Little ARMs pump 2,048-bit muscles in training for Fujitsu's Post-K exascale mega-brain
NEON is so 80s, er, 90s, no, 2000s, wait, 2010s
www.theregister.com
Sony are reintroducing SPU's in the PS5 , which can be used for other tasks more than 3D audio, whatever the developers wish cos it sure is a lot more efficient at massively parallel powerful general work that GPU streaming processors have difficulty with. (The GFLOPS are almost identical to the original CELL, I suspect they might be leaving it open for PS3 BC??)
I believe there's a good chance we could see an almagamation of SPUs and ARMs for next gen of CELL processors, first truly next gen processors that will have the best of both CPU's and GPU's (not APU's which are tightly integrated discrete CPU and GPU), the realization of Ken Kutargi's dream! This could be the heart of the PS6?! It could interpret X86 instructions on the fly for BC if they can get around the shitty Intel legalities
... Yeah I know I'm dreaming a bit, but hey how fast tech is moving it could be a possibility
Last edited:
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
2 SKUs is just dumb.
MasterCornholio
Member
You can always upgrade to the PS5 version for only 10$ more. What's dumb is having two retail SKUs without the option to upgrade.
You know what I think is really confusing?
)
As least with the PlayStation versions it's really easy to distinguish the two.
Last edited:
FranXico
Member
The PS4 version can be upgraded.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Yeah, that's dumb too.
assurdum
Banned
I mean he practically substain geometry engine could be a RDNA3 feature that's why he defines ps5 RDNA3 (partially). A bit simplistic and strechted but it's not that completely foolish to believe.
Last edited:
Moridianae
Member
Meanwhile, I think I'll have to call shenanigans on our Twitter "insider" Robert Serrano. I see his latest tweet says the event is September 7th.
Really? They'll confirm something randomly on a holiday weekend and go on Tuesday? I don't buy that. I saw the ol' "things change" disclaimer in there also.
Really? They'll confirm something randomly on a holiday weekend and go on Tuesday? I don't buy that. I saw the ol' "things change" disclaimer in there also.
LiquidRex
Member
All I can say is get ready for shock... Redgamingtech has an excellent track record... If you haven't subscribed I recommend you do
Shmunter
Member
What’s the diff between when PS3 came out, followed by PS4?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
WTF are you doing with that blue account? Take this, Medal of Insiders.
And to ease your suffering with the auto-refresh feature, here's a video I uploaded an hour ago:
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
TheContact
Member
Pringle’s leak take it with a grain of salt, basically estimates $599 somehow but seems as fake as a placeholder
www.forbes.com
Pringles Leaks Xbox Series X Price Details
Did Pringles just leak the price of Microsoft's Xbox Series X? Let's take a look.
www.forbes.com
Daniel_Mallorca1985
Member
UK Retailer Expects PS5 Pre-Orders "Any Day Now", May Not Go on General Sale | PlayStation Fanatic
In an email sent out by UK retailer Simply Games, the retailer is expecting PS5 pre-orders any day now but the PS5 may not go on general sale
www.psfanatic.com
hemo memo
Gold Member
UK Retailer Expects PS5 Pre-Orders "Any Day Now", May Not Go on General Sale | PlayStation Fanatic
In an email sent out by UK retailer Simply Games, the retailer is expecting PS5 pre-orders any day now but the PS5 may not go on general sale
Yeah we are expecting pre-orders “any day now” since August.
CrysisFreak
Banned
I give it two more hours.
Screencap this.
XO_o
Member
Ubisoft registers “SPLINTER CELL” title rights with the USA names office
Trademark Status & Document Retrieval
tsdr.uspto.gov
hemo memo
Gold Member
lol but seriously. Sony said they are not opening pre-orders on a moment’s notice. So that UK retailer can relax.
Moridianae
Member
Indeed. I dont expect them to be sprung on us at all. My friend and former coworker at GameStop for many years who is still there believes they'll know in advance(conference call, a weekly payroll increase or marketing stuff). He'll warn me and I'll warn you guys subsequenly if it happens that way.
Killer Sakoman
Member
It took me 15 minutes to digest. Where the fuck did these marketting guys get their degree from?You can always upgrade to the PS5 version for only 10$ more. What's dumb is having two retail SKUs without the option to upgrade.
You know what I think is really confusing?
As least with the PlayStation versions it's really easy to distinguish the two.
splattered
Member
If they charge us $599 for the console is it more "elegance" or "arrogance" and can Sony fans even tell the difference anymore?
I'm willing to pay up to $599 for each console if i HAVE to, but i don't want to... especially after the NVIDIA card reveals.
IllegalLemon
Member
Gives more credence to the fact that we might see a Splinter Cell game make an appearance at the upcoming UbiForward event less than a week from now.Ubisoft registers “SPLINTER CELL” title rights with the USA names office
Trademark Status & Document Retrieval
tsdr.uspto.gov
Edit: Hopefully!
Last edited:
TrippleA345
Member
I have received another email from Sony that the PS5 will be available soon. It won't take long until the pre-orders (within one month) start. Weapons are already ready for pre-ordering
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
OOOOOh nice it's been too long since we had a Splinter Cell.Ubisoft registers “SPLINTER CELL” title rights with the USA names office
Trademark Status & Document Retrieval
tsdr.uspto.gov
Weren't there rumlors about a new opus or a reboot last year ?
MasterCornholio
Member
My guess is that it's probably not really their fault. Microsoft and Sony probably told them how to handle the design of the boxes. Microsoft clearly wanted to push the cross gen look which is why you have this kind of labeling especially after Activision didn't want to adopt smart delivery. It's why with other games it's alot less confusing like with Farcry 6 for example.
)
Last edited:
Killer Sakoman
Member
I do mean Microsoft not Activision. The information on the cover is dictated by platform holder. Activision only put the art and title of their game.
MasterCornholio
Member
It feels like the confusion around the marketing is punishment for not adopting smart delivery. I bet some publishers probably feel this way.
Last edited:
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
You’re assuming they’re going for the same market. They’re not.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
Bo_Hazem
sircaw
Bryank75
do you think Sony might wait until October to start talking PS5 again, by talking I am referring to another event where you see in depth gameplay demos, UI reveal, price and pre order info and probably a couple of unannounced titles gets revealed and then November the console launches. Or do you think Sony already has an event edited out and ready to be aired the moment Microsoft reveals Series S and pricing for Series S and X?
Bryank75
Banned
A portion is... as I've said before I could change to pc at any time.
There are many like me, even if it's between 1 to 5 million sales of consoles...that is a huge amount of revenue because they are high spending customers.
They will never make up for that by bringing anything to PC. Horizon sales were pathetic and all the other spending of these people will go to Steam or EGS.
I think there is a huge amount of arrogance behind the idea that they can get away with putting anything on PC and not suffer negative consequences.
MasterCornholio
Member
Honestly they can have an event for the hardware and save the price announcement for another.
Bryank75
Banned
I think they have everything ready to go and are just waiting on XBox. The only thing they have is two different prices for each SKU.... depending on the XBox prices.
It's counter-intuitive and I could be way off but I think the closer we get to launch without a price, the more likely the console is cheaper than we think. So if we get an announcement before Xbox, then I will be more worried that it's 600.
Moridianae
Member
I wasn't tagged in this, but I'm a firm believer they have it ready to go the minute Microsoft caves and goes for their even, but I was told "that's not how marketing works", which I concede I'm a layman on that.
They could also choose to go on their own, which I I think they might as well, but they also seem very keen to avoid *any* Halo-style disappointments and have everything 100% committed, produced and secured before they speak.
However, I don't think the general rules of marketing apply or have applied to this generation so far.
It's been a void of no information with very small tidbits. Wherein by this time in any generation before, we'd already know most everything and have our preorders in long ago.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
1 to 5M of consoles is 1 to 4% of the total number of consoles the PS5 will sell. They would not make up the billions of loss revenue from cutting the price of the PS5 by $100.
And if $600 is too expensive for some people, I don’t see those people spending $2000 on a gaming PC.
Last edited:
Killer Sakoman
Member
I reached a point where I don't care of what they show. At the end I need to play Spider-Man, God of War and Horizon in the upcoming 6 years
. Price, power, and features won't make a difference . If I am not satisfied with graphics and performance, I might upgrade my PC for the few good 3rd party games that release once every 10 years.
Shmunter
Member
Don’t be so glass half empty. The gfx on console will be eye melting.
Bryank75
Banned
It's a consideration, since that will cover a 3070 and is almost enough for a 3080.
I wouldn't take my customers for granted like that.
Mr. PlayStation
Member
I am down for this, it's sorta frustrating to wake up every day and keep watching the June 11th event reaction videos on youtube and wait patiently until we hear and something more concrete about PS5
Last edited:
Mr. PlayStation
Member
I reached a point where I don't care of what they show. At the end I need to play Spider-Man, God of War and Horizon in the upcoming 6 years
If I am not satisfied with graphics and performance, I might upgrade my PC for the few good 3rd party games that release once every 10 years.
unfortunately PC gaming is not an option for me as to where I am right now in life. The console will once again be my only way to get lost in the immersive stories and worlds on PlayStation.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Those games were not on the same architecture. These are the same game with with one having a patch.
Shmunter
Member
Screenshot or die!
Red_Driver85
Member
Oh, this is amazing, bro. So beautiful nature. Mmmm, parallax effect motion, nice editing.
- Status