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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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IntentionalPun

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Neo Blaster said:
There's a new variable besides resolution and framerate for next gen, ray tracing. Judging by the amount of RT we've been seeing on Sony games and how demanding it is, looks like they chose to lower resolution and go for reconstruction techniques to shift resources for image quality and fps. Curious to know how these techniques have evolved.
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Sure, but I'd include that under graphical fidelity. That one is a big umbrella of things; texture detail, draw distance, object detail, effects and lighting/shadows/reflections which have various techniques that take different amounts of power (including RT now.)

Some of those things can also be dynamic as well though. Reconstruction techniques are rad too as you said; often also using dynamic internal resolutions to find the right balance.

Anyways point is it's way too complicated for people to just talk about 4k60... or locked 4k60.. games NOT using dynamic resolution are leaving something else either not turned up, or dynamic on it's own.
 
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BlueXImpulse

BlueXImpulse

Banned
NEbeast said:
Why are xbox fans using dynamic resolution as a weapon? Weren't they preaching about ML , and how 4k is a waste, I don't get it. Everything we have seen from PS5 looks better than Halo, what's the big deal?
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They forgot that Halo Infinite is also dynamic 4K. I didn't forget though so I have to constantly remind them. Every time I have though I get complete silence back. Was it something I said?
 
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kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Dodkrake said:
I've said this months back, but it's always worth mentioning again.

AMD's new cards are using 40CU / 80CU designs, with the 80CU GPU's utilizing their new stacking technology X3D. This means that the high end GPUs are more or less dual GPU's in one bundle, stacked. Of course we need to consider that cards will have 36/40 and 72/80 CU's, depending on how many (if any) CUs are disabled.

The Series X, while leveraging some of the RDNA 2 features (Fabrication process, co-processors, etc), doesn't use the "regular" RDNA 2 "template", so to speak. This is probably because of the need to have the 52CU APU run as a server for XCloud. That's ok.

So, at the end of the day, we have

PS5 - Closer to the RDNA 2 "template", with most of its features (the ones Sony deemed necessary) and Sony's own extensive customization
XSX - Seems like it's MS's own design, apparently grabbing more features from stock RDNA 2 and including MS own customization

Funny thing is, past disproven rumors said that the PS5 is RNDA 1 with RDNA 2 features tacked on, but the Series X actually deviates further from the RDNA 2 design. Nevertheless, both consoles are RDNA 2.
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Because AMD use the template of Shader Engines, Shader Arrays, Dual Compute Units, all of the GPUs for RX 5000, 6000, and the consoles are fairly similar.

Navi 10 had 2 SEs, each with 2 SAs, with 5 DCUs each. 2x2x5x2=40 CUs.
Navi 22 has the same, 2x2x5x2=40 CUs.

For Big Navi they just doubled the shader engines.
Navi 21 has 4 SEs, each with 2 SAs, with 5 DCUs each. 4x2x5x2=80 CUs.

PS4 was just 1 shader engine, 1x2x5x2=20 CUs.
PS4 Pro and PS5 also have the same, 2x2x5x2=40 CUs, as Navi 10 and Navi 22 (PS4 x2).

Series X has same 2 SEs, 2 SAs each, but has 7 Dual CUs per SA, instead of 5. 2x2x7x2=56.
Xbox has always had slightly more unique CU arrangements, 14 for Xbox One and 44 for One X.
And the Series S only has 24, so I assume thats 1 SE, 1x2x6x2=24.
Not sure why Microsoft only wanted 14 CUs for the One, but it clearly dictated that the Series X have 56 (cuz xcloud.)

Its really just how many dual compute units per SA.
Thats really the only difference. Sony's are more similar to what AMD use for RX cards, Microsofts are less similar.
 
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Grinchy

Grinchy

Banned
Axonometri said:
can I ride along?
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Sure, but it's this model:

ybzNkn7l.png
 
LucidFlux

LucidFlux

Member
IntentionalPun said:
Games have unpredictable framerates due to the unpredictable nature of what's on screen. You might end up with a lot of enemies on screen during a certain battle, you might not.. hell the weapon you use and the effects it generates might change the framerate. This is particularly true for any game remotely "open world" or "dynamic" or multiplayer games.. since the game has no real control over the fact everyone in the match could decide to have a teabag fest in the same room.

If you want to achieve "locked 60FPS" you'd need to adjust the graphical settings to always be at a place where 60FPS is guaranteed.. meaning since performance is hugely variable you are leaving graphical fidelity out for the sake of handling edge cases.

So the modern technique is instead to adjust resolution on the fly, since it's another variable you can control that is much less noticeable to users.

Big fucking deal... graphics discussions are so stupid because 90% of people have no clue what it means to be "4k60" other than repeating the numbers and letters.
Click to expand...

All of this. Non technical folks don't realize you don't "lock" a game at a frame rate, you can only cap it. But like you said, if the target is 60 then games are ideally Internally rendering anywhere from 60 (in the worst edge case scenarios) into the hundreds or whenever they hit a CPU bottleneck.

The beauty of how close these machines are is that whether it's a locked resolution with ample overhead (so that neither machine dips below the target frame rate) or a dynamic resolution is employed, at such high resolutions they'll be identical experiences for 99% of the population.
 
S

smallpotatosan

Member
IntentionalPun said:
Games have unpredictable framerates due to the unpredictable nature of what's on screen. You might end up with a lot of enemies on screen during a certain battle, you might not.. hell the weapon you use and the effects it generates might change the framerate. This is particularly true for any game remotely "open world" or "dynamic" or multiplayer games.. since the game has no real control over the fact everyone in the match could decide to have a teabag fest in the same room.

If you want to achieve "locked 60FPS" you'd need to adjust the graphical settings to always be at a place where 60FPS is guaranteed.. meaning since performance is hugely variable you are leaving graphical fidelity out for the sake of handling edge cases.

So the modern technique is instead to adjust resolution on the fly, since it's another variable you can control that is much less noticeable to users.

Big fucking deal... graphics discussions are so stupid because 90% of people have no clue what it means to be "4k60" other than repeating the numbers and letters.
Click to expand...

Right on point. Dynamic resolution is a blessing to devs. People are unnecessarily obsessed with native resolution. I blame DF for their initial narratives. DF has been trying to change the tone saying native 4K is a waste. But it will take a couple years for people to get used to.
 
S

smallpotatosan

Member
NEbeast said:
Why are xbox fans using dynamic resolution as a weapon? Weren't they preaching about ML , and how 4k is a waste, I don't get it. Everything we have seen from PS5 looks better than Halo, what's the big deal?
Click to expand...
What else can they do? Keep celebrating potential big games in 2023 while watching ps5 getting eye popping launch games? Nah, human brain doesn’t work like that.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Axonometri said:
Looks like we will be seeing next gen games being played on next gen consoles in early 2021, maybe.
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I will play in November 18th.

Being fair I don't trust the transportation company will delivery the consoe in time... so I expect up to one week after the November 18th :(
It is Brasil after all.
 
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Snowdonhoffen

Snowdonhoffen

Member
O

Orky

Banned
GreyHand23 said:
You're wrong. Returnal and Gran Turismo 7 at the very least are also PS5 exclusive.
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Gran Turismo 7 is not confirmed for 2021, is it? The store page doesn’t state that.
Same for Returnal (Release date: To be confirmed).
So, again what games confirmed for 2021 are exclusive to PS5 other than the two mentioned?
 
Snowdonhoffen

Snowdonhoffen

Member
Orky said:
Gran Turismo 7 is not confirmed for 2021, is it? The store page doesn’t state that.
Same for Returnal (Release date: To be confirmed).
So, again what games confirmed for 2021 are exclusive to PS5 other than the two mentioned?
Click to expand...
Well, a Linkedin profile said Returnal was a 2021 release a few weeks back so there's that.
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
smallpotatosan said:
Right on point. Dynamic resolution is a blessing to devs. People are unnecessarily obsessed with native resolution. I blame DF for their initial narratives. DF has been trying to change the tone saying native 4K is a waste. But it will take a couple years for people to get used to.
Click to expand...
Blame MS marketing obsession with native 4K on One X for that too, funny thing is the majority of games running on the console didn't even reach that resolution. Even less on Pro. Native 4K is waste of resources and must go.
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
ethomaz said:
I will play in November 18th.

Being fair I don't trust the transportation company will delivery the consoe in time... so I expect up to one week after the November 18th :(
It is Brasil after all.
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When did you pre-order yours? I have faith Submarino will get mine ready for pick up in an Americanas store near my home on November 20th.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Neo Blaster said:
When did you pre-order yours? I have faith Submarino will get mine ready for pick up in an Americanas store near my home on November 20th.
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I did preorder on Magazine Luiza because they give 5% discounts while others not.
All depends when they will ship it but I’m not in São Paulo capital where they delivery in 1-2 days.

I’m in Fernandópolis... the closest Americanas is 120km.
 
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LucidFlux

LucidFlux

Member
Neo Blaster said:
Blame MS marketing obsession with native 4K on One X for that too, funny thing is the majority of games running on the console didn't even reach that resolution. Even less on Pro. Native 4K is waste of resources and must go.
Click to expand...

I truly hope this is the last generation that pushes the native resolution narrative as the end all be all. Of course output resolution will continue to increase along side the TV industry but for the PS6/XbsX2 I'd be perfectly happy if internal rendering resolutions stayed at "only" 4k and ML was the path forward for reaching 8k and beyond. The second we can start utilizing those GPU resources for things other than rendering more pixels the better.
 
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