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[Bo_Hazem]

Problem with noise is that how people sense/hear/take the noise, is subjective.

Same noise can be annoying as hell to one person, while another doesnt even notice it. While both hear it, one also notices it as it penetrates his conscious mind, and second ones brain just "filter it out".

Then same noise can be "loud" to one, and silent/normal to another.

Also the type of noise affects the perception, like there is dude playing music outside of your apartment.
Person 1 likes russian trance techno that the dude plays = he doesnt mind it that much
Person 2 hates russian trance techno = he wants to murder the dude


As an example, one of my friend said "my ps4 is silent, weird", when I complained how fucking loud my second unit were (launch unit were as loud as my hoover, second unit loud enough to be heard from wc, 7-8m + one door between). Well I wanted to check his to know if my second one is defective, went to his house. He opens the door.. and I could easily hear his ps4 screaming from 10m away from his living room

And after I pointed it out to him(the noise) he were like "ohh, I really didnt notice it before, but yeah it is loud, damn!"

So his brain just filtered it out.

Example of volume levels: I have Sony WH-1000XM3 headphones, they can output around 104 decibels, which is almost 20 times more than 85 dB(which is used as level of too loud, causes hearing damage) because of logarithmic scale. They are really loud even at 40-50% and I usually use mine at 10-25%

And yet almost daily I read at reddit how crazy idiots cry how they are not loud enough, like they literally use them at 100% volume(basically any headphones WILL cause hearing damage at 100% volume, unless they or source is broken) and still somehow(I have no idea how, they should cause pain) think it is not loud enough, probably already broken ears from playing music too loudly.

So, some people just dont have same kind of senses, some get annoyed from tiny noises, some ruin their ears with playing music too loudly and dont even notice how crazy it is.




My point: while it is nice to compare experiences, without noise measurements made by professional equipment and professional/good person, they are just experiences but not the 100% truth.

I havent personally ever seen quiet PS4, all I have seen have been clearly audible at annoying levels, like masking what characters are talking about. units vary from launch to 2 years old, OG and pro modelts. And most have been on space where they have plenty of air, like top of a desk.

(cant say anything about xbox one systems, because nobody I know owns them)

Not saying your experiences are false, it is possible that you have perceived them as "almost silent", while they could have been the same as most, kind of noisy.

One possible explanation is, that in your country houses have air condition, or road noises come from outside, something that masks the fan noise so when you dont notice it above other noises = it is "silent".


Even Nintendo Switch outputs enough noise on docked mode to be heard from 2-3 metres away, in non-noisy room. So I find it out REALLY hard to believe that any console with moving parts would be anywhere near of being objectively silent.

Normal quiet room(not silent) have background noise levels around 25-35 decibels, which is no loud by any means, so for ps4/console to be so quiet that it would be perceived as silent, it would have to output not much more than 20-40 decibels, depending how far the listener is. Noise levels drop roughly 6 db when distance is doubled. Like if it is 50 dB@1m, it is 44dB@2m and so on.


So even the noisy ones can be "pretty silent" if user sits far enough.

I made my Master degree thesis about noise measurements, and took many courses at university. And while I'm not super expert of the subject, I think I know enough to give "scientific view" to it.

And I am HUGE Sony fanboy, almost all my equipment are from Sony + I collect Sony stuff, so I am not biased in any way Being noisy is the only fault on playstation consoles, and I really hope that PS5s are much more quiet

Even ps2 fat units had huge variation, so it is possible that some PS4s are "silent" on certain environments, but I have yet seen but 10-20 noisy ones, so unless some factories output just noisy ones, I find it difficult to believe that you have met only the best units. (ours are made in china, voxcon? unit

tl:dr How we perceive noise is subjective, and we should not trust what others perceive, only professional measurements can give us some kind of base level to use in comparisons. But from the looks, PS5 is most probably better than ps4 on noise levels

Mate, I literally knocked the floor with my knuckles to show how calm the place is, then put the phone directly to the console. Nope, it's silent, and to make it better I always play with a headset, never use TV speakers or other soundbars/surround systems.

 

[AeneaGames]

Halo was on PC, you claimed it was on XsX.

You lied about Hitman.

You're now using Hitman 1, the Paris stage which dipped below 60 in only one scene for less than 5 seconds in the entire game when you clearly don't know the game and never watched the video.

You're just console warring. And lying about it too. Pathetic.

Might it be possible that people makes a mistake instead of immediately going to start screaming he's a liar, FUD spreading and console warring?

Hitman was a booboo, Halo is not, it was pc footage performant of an XSX. I believe MS did say that themselves on the footage disclaimer. So using it to say that is a lie of some sort seems weird to me. It's even worse that it was not running on the XSX IMO.

Now let's be civil to each other shall we?

 

[Zathalus]

Oh I agree, just seeing sony first party and 5 or 6 XSX games is not sufficient. There are vidoes of Yakuza on ps5 going around, so wont be long to wait if people need comparisons.

I have always posted, for last 6 months, that abstract api vs direct apis, and faster caches / on chip bandwidth would close the differences to neglible, but did not except so much so early.

Neither consoles use an abstract API for next gen.

 

[geordiemp]

How bad are small triangles on GPU and why?

www.g-truc.net

Cerny also mentioned why he went narrow and fast and used the case of small trinagle performance.

Then we had the UeE5 demo that used small transgles....

Co-incidence ?

 

[onesvenus]

How bad are small triangles on GPU and why?

www.g-truc.net

Thanks. That's what I thought.
I do think that GPU architecture has changed enough in 6 years for that to not be the case anymore

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Might it be possible that people makes a mistake instead of immediately going to start screaming he's a liar, FUD spreading and console warring?

Hitman was a booboo, Halo is not, it was pc footage performant of an XSX. I believe MS did say that themselves on the footage disclaimer. So using it to say that is a lie of some sort seems weird to me. It's even worse that it was not running on the XSX IMO.

Now let's be civil to each other shall we?

Console warring isn't being civil, he gets a free pass to spread FUD including literally inventing games and posting isolated BC screenshots and peddling that as universal truth.

Halo wasn't running on XsX, that's a fact. It looks like trash but that's the game's fault (I blame 343i) not the PC nor the XsX. But here we are, trying to justify the PS5 by running down it's competition rather than talking about the PS5.

Go ahead and report me, I'd love the mods to clamp down on the console warring bullshit in here from all sides, Xbox fans included.

 

[geordiemp]

Neither consoles use an abstract API for next gen.

Uh ?

Hypervisor, abstraction layer api etc was introduced in 360, years back

The hypervisor and its implications

We're taking an in-depth technical look at one of the Xbox 360's features, its hypervisor. The Xbox 360 contains a hypervisor to provide security for the system--good news for Microsoft, bad news for hackers, as Microsoft has included it as part of its plans for a hack-proof 360. What are the...

www.engadget.com

Interview with metro dev on DX11 abstraction and book keeping.

Metro Redux: what it's really like to develop for PS4 and Xbox One

As tech interviews go, this one's a corker. Readers of our previous Metro 2033 and Metro Last Light tech Q&As will know…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Deleted member 775630]

You playing birdbox?? Couple of weeks? Its already happening now. Multiplats look & run better on PS5 already. COD,DMC5SE,NBA2K. Its Actual PS5 footage. They have better visuals, and have better load times.As of now this is non debatable facts. XSX has no captured footage of these games,disclaimers of RT patch in at some unknown time frame.

Lol what? Can you please give me the footage of those games running on XSX, and also footage of Dirt5 and Yakuza running on PS5. You compare the same games, not CoD on PS5 with Dirt5 on XSX...

 

[DaGwaphics]

We haven't seen any game running in both consoles to compare, right? How can we reach a conclusion on whether one of the consoles is more powerful than the other?
it seems like all console warriors on both sides just make up arguments to support their unfounded beliefs

IKR, lets wait to see what final software looks like on both units before throwing down the gauntlet.

 

[Loxus]

PS5に覚悟の「液体金属」採用、真の狙いはコスト削減

　「液体金属（による熱伝導材）をどうしても使いたかった。それには相当な決意と準備が必要だった」――。米Sony Interactive Entertainment（SIE、ソニー・インタラクティブエンタテインメント）が2020年11月に発売予定の据え置き型ゲーム機「PlayStation 5（PS5）」の機構設計・熱設計の責任者である鳳（おおとり） 康宏氏は、PS5を実現する上で重要な役割を担った技術への思いをこう語る。同氏は、PS2からプレイステーションの設計に携わっており、SIEが2020年10月7日に公開したPS5の分解動画では、自ら出演し、作業と解説を行った。

xtech.nikkei.com

Nikkei Interview Part 1 with Yasuhiro Otori, VP of Mechanical Design and the man who did the PS5 Teardown:

"I really wanted to use liquid metal as a heat conductor." It took a lot of determination and preparation. Sony Interactive Entertainment's (SIE) PlayStation 5 (PS5) console is scheduled to launch in November 2020, and Yasuhiro Otori, who is responsible for the mechanical and thermal design of the console, has been working on the PS5 This is how he describes his thoughts on the technology that played a key role in making the He has been involved in the design of the PlayStation since the PS2, and appeared himself in the PS5 disassembly video released by SIE on October 7, 2020, to work and explain the process.


　PS5 uses liquid metal as the heat conduction material (TIM) for transferring heat from the main processor (SoC) to the heat sink. Without this liquid metal TIM, the PS5 would have been larger, more expensive, and the cooling fan would have been louder. The noise of the cooling fan during gaming varies depending on the situation, but according to Otori, "the PS5 is generally quieter than the PS4".

　The PS5 is available in two models, one with an optical disc drive and the other without, priced at US$499 and US$399, respectively, which is a bargain against the specifications. The thermal design contributed greatly to the cost savings in achieving this price. This article will be divided into two parts, Part 1 and Part 2, based on the interview with Mr. Otori.

Why did we use liquid metal in TIM?
　Preparations for the adoption of liquid metal TIM began about two years ago, when the configuration and shape of the PS5 hardware was roughly decided. In addition to the design, we began to consider various aspects of the adoption of liquid metal TIM, from the manufacturing process to procurement. They decided to use liquid metal TIM because the main processor (SoC) had a high operating frequency, but the die was small and the thermal density was "very high" (Mr. Otori). The heat density of the SoC, especially during gaming, is "much higher" (he said) than the PS4. That's because the PS5's SoC "basically runs at almost full power during gaming" (he says). As a result, TDP (Thermal Design Power) values and the amount of heat generated during gaming are "about the same". On the other hand, it is rare for a PS4 SoC to operate at the very edge of TDP, and even when gaming, it generates only a few percent of its TDP.

The reason for the small size of the SoC die is that die size is directly related to cost and yield. In other words, the smaller the die size, the lower the cost and the more difficult it is for defects to enter the die, which leads to higher yields.

Liquid metal TIM is more expensive than conventional thermal conductors such as thermal grease. However, when considering the thermal design of electronic devices, the more effort is put into cooling close to the heat source, the "better the cost performance" (Mr. Otori). This is because if heat can be recovered efficiently near the heat source, there is no need to spend money on heat sinks and cooling fans. On the other hand, if thermal grease is used, an expensive heat sink with high cooling performance is required.

　In other words, even if we use liquid metal TIM, which leads to higher costs, we can reduce the total cost of cooling as a result," says Otori. The speed of the cooling fan can also be reduced, which reduces noise. In other words, the use of liquid metal TIM "makes sense in terms of cost and quietness" (Mr. Otori).

　So will liquid metal TIM be used in other electronic devices in the future? As for that, "I don't know" (Mr. Otori), but he prefaced it by saying, "As an engineer, the less expensive a device is, the more I want to use it" (Mr. Otori). He believes that liquid metal TIM will be a powerful tool in cases where heat sinks are expensive and in need of help.

Teaming up with a material manufacturer and know-how in application
　Liquid metal TIM has many advantages, but it is a material that "poses a challenge to use" (Mr. Otori). For example, because it is conductive, if liquid metal TIM leaks onto the board, there is a risk of a short circuit in the board. In addition, it is highly reactive to aluminum, so it must be kept away from aluminum.

Because of these issues, although TIM is used in mobile phone base stations and other devices, its use in consumer applications is limited to a limited number of notebook computers and "overclockers," which are enthusiasts who increase the operating frequency of processors. .

　Therefore, the company has taken measures to address these issues so that it can be used in game consoles that are mass-produced in quantities ranging from several million units to more than 10 million units per year. For example, a sealed structure was adopted to prevent leakage of the liquid metal TIM. This structure is patented, although it would be obvious if it were to be disassembled and seen. Above all, there is a lot of manufacturing know-how, such as how to apply and automate liquid metal TIM, that is not obvious just by looking at it," said Otori. For example, liquid metal TIM is applied by an automated machine, but "it's a different method than conventional grease," according to Mr. Otori. We cooperated with material manufacturers to realize this liquid metal TIM. The company claims to have added customizations based on existing products.



Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...have-been-a-lot-smoother.292115/post-48440648

PS5のサイズの秘密は冷却ファンにあり、ヒートシンクに妙技

　米Sony Interactive Entertainment（SIE、ソニー・インタラクティブエンタテインメント）が2020年11月に発売する据え置き型ゲーム機「PlayStation 5（PS5）」には、コスト削減や静音性の向上、ならびに筐体（きょうたい）サイズをなるべく小さくするために、熱設計にさまざまな工夫を施している。後編となる今回は、大型の冷却ファンやヒートシンクについての工夫を紹介する。

xtech.nikkei.com

Part 2 of Otori Interview:

Sony Interactive Entertainment (SIE) will release PlayStation 5 (PS5) in November 2020, and the company has announced that it will cut costs, improve noise and increase the size of the console's chassis In PS5, liquid metal thermal interface (TIM) is used to efficiently conduct the heat generated by the main processor (SoC) to a large heatsink, which is then cooled by a large cooling fan. In the first part of this article, the TIM of liquid metal was explained. In the second part, we will introduce some innovations for large cooling fans and heat sinks.

　The PS5's cooling fan is centrifugal, just like the PS3 and PS4, and is 120mm in diameter. It is 120mm in diameter and is controlled by a servo system like the PS4, which adjusts the fan speed according to heat generation. The centrifugal fan produces airflow in all directions. Compared to the axial fans commonly used in desktop computers, the airflow is a little smaller, but the static pressure is a little higher.

　The type of fan to be used is generally chosen based on the required static pressure and flow rate. If the static pressure required for a fan is low, then an axial fan is an option instead of a centrifugal fan. But the centrifugal fan is still in the strike zone" (Otori Yasuhiro, head of the PS5's mechanical and thermal design).

The bigger PS5 comes from a thicker fan
　To cool both sides of the main board, the PS5's cooling fan is 45 mm thick, which is thicker than the current PS4 and PS4 Pro. If we divide the SoC-mounted side of the PS5 into "Side A" and the back of the PS5 into "Side B," then the heat emitted from Side B is "equivalent to that of the PS4's SoC," according to Mr. Otori. Therefore, the air is sucked in from both sides of the cooling fan to cool the A and B sides of the main board.

The size of this cooling fan determined the size of the PS5. The fan's thickness was based on the width of the PS5 when it was placed vertically (or the height if it was placed horizontally), and it was asymmetrical when viewed from the front. This is because that is where the optical disk drive is located.

Easy to remove the optical disk drive
　When the unit is placed in portrait mode, the right side viewed from the front is on the bottom of the unit when it is placed horizontally. When the system is placed horizontally, the main board is placed underneath the heat sink and power supply module, and the optical disk drive is placed underneath the main board. The purpose of this is to make it easier to support the "Digital Edition" which does not include the drive. If you remove the optical disc drive, the standard PS5 becomes the Digital Edition.

　The PS5 measures 390mm x 260mm x 104mm, which is larger than the larger PS4 Pro (approximately 327mm x 295mm x 55mm), which is the larger of the PS4 series. In fact, there were ways to make the PS5 smaller than its current size. For example, we could reduce the size of the PS5 by installing two cooling fans, one for side A and one for side B. However, there was no way to make the PS5 smaller than the current size. However, this would increase the cost of the two cooling fans. In addition, controlling the rotation of the two cooling fans is "more difficult" than controlling only one fan. That is why they decided to use a single large fan to cool both sides of a single main board.

Small details around the cooling fan
　Around the cooling fan, measures have been taken to ensure user convenience and safety. For example, the PS5 uses a "dust catcher" that collects dust and other small debris blown away by the centrifugal force of the fan. According to Otori, "It's something we've wanted to introduce for a long time, and we adopted it because we could secure the space. Inside the PS5 is a space where dust blown away by the centrifugal force of the fan can be collected, and the dust can be vacuumed up through the hole that appears when the white exterior cover is removed.

　Safety measures were also taken to prevent fingers from accidentally getting into the spinning fan. Removing the outer cover reveals the cooling fan. While it is assumed that the power is turned off when removing the exterior cover, there is no chance of removing the cover without turning it off. In other words, if you remove the exterior cover while the power is on, the cooling fan will still be spinning. This is why we added a cover to prevent fingers from getting into the fan while it is spinning.

　However, because the fan cover creates air resistance, it has a three-dimensional shape and has small holes in it to allow the air to flow smoothly. According to Mr. Otori, "This cover was designed by a young engineer who had been with the company for a couple of years".

3D heat pipes and gaps between cooling fins
　Even with a large heat sink, the company has achieved both improved cooling performance and cost reduction. Although the heat pipes are used, the shape and airflow of the heat pipes have enabled the company to achieve cooling performance equivalent to that of an expensive vapour chamber with superior cooling performance and reduced costs. For example, the heat pipes are bent in a three-dimensional (three-dimensional) structure. Of the three fins in the heatsink, the heat pipe is made to pass through the upper and lower sides of one fin (fin 1), respectively, to increase the cooling performance of this fin.

　The other two fins have some innovations as well. For example, one of the fins (fin 2) is angled at an angle. In addition, we intentionally created a gap between this fin (fin 2) and the other fin (fin 3) to allow the air that has been heated by the first fin (fin 2) to be mixed with air from another source to cool it down and then sent to the second fin (fin 3) to improve the cooling effect on fin 3. I made it. If this gap is also filled with fins, the cooling effect of fin 3 is reduced because once the air is not cooled, it cannot be cooled.

On the B side, there is also a heat sink and heat pipe
　In addition to this large item, there is another heat sink in the area that is difficult to see from the disassembly video. That is the heat sink located on the B side of the main board. The main board is sandwiched between the aforementioned A side and B side by a metal shield plate, and in order to cool the power supply system such as the DC-DC converter mounted on the B side, a heat sink and a heat pipe were installed on the shield plate on the B side. In addition, the B-side shield is made of aluminum for cooling, while the A-side shield is made of steel.

There were other structural features as well. One example is the thermal conductivity between the GDDR6 compatible memory mounted on the B side of the main board and the shield board. Instead of the so-called 'stick-on' type thermal conductor in sheet form, it is coated with a liquid material that hardens like rubber after a short time. This is a measure to increase productivity in response to automation.

　In the case of the paste-type heat-conductive materials, it is difficult to remove them from the backing board by an automatic machine, so it is necessary to manually remove them. The PS5 uses almost all of the thermal conducive materials used in the PS5, whereas the PS4 series used only some of them.

Source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...have-been-a-lot-smoother.292115/post-48440648

I love this Interview with Yasuhiro Otori, we now know a lot about the Cooling.
It reminds me of Mark Cerny's Road to PS5. (Has anyone found a full write up of Road of PS5? e.g. in word farm.)
We got a full break down of the; Specs, Cooling and BC. Now only UI is left.

Also with BC, I think PS 1, 2 & 3 BC will be PS Now only.

 

[Garani]

This doesn't sound like it will always be quieter than the PS4 like some people where saying

there may be situations where PS4 could be quieter. That doesn’t mean that the ps5 will be loud.

 

[kikkis]

Cerny also mentioned why he went narrow and fast and used the case of small trinagle performance.

Then we had the UeE5 demo that used small transgles....

Co-incidence ?

Ue5 uses software rasterization or whatever tech they have developed precisely because poor performance on small triangles. Cerny isn't wrong on small triangles being faster with higher clocks, but it still gets really slow on small triangles, so I doubt its much help at the end of the day.

Thanks. That's what I thought.
I do think that GPU architecture has changed enough in 6 years for that to not be the case anymore

That part of gpus still holds true, as is evident even in UE5 switching to sw rasterization for small triangles. There is some discussion on the topic also

 

[onesvenus]

there may be situations where PS4 could be quieter. That doesn’t mean that the ps5 will be loud.

Wait. If the PS4 was sometimes loud and the quote I quoted says that it won't always be quieter than the PS4, that means that sometimes the sound level will be louder, making it also loud.
It's basic logic.

 

[GreyHand23]

Wait. If the PS4 was sometimes loud and the quote I quoted says that it won't always be quieter than the PS4, that means that sometimes the sound level will be louder, making it also loud.
It's basic logic.

The translation could simply be wrong. It was translated by a deep learning translator not a human.

 

[Zathalus]

Uh ?

Hypervisor, abstraction layer api etc was introduced in 360, years back

The hypervisor and its implications

We're taking an in-depth technical look at one of the Xbox 360's features, its hypervisor. The Xbox 360 contains a hypervisor to provide security for the system--good news for Microsoft, bad news for hackers, as Microsoft has included it as part of its plans for a hack-proof 360. What are the...

www.engadget.com

Interview with metro dev on DX11 abstraction and book keeping.

Metro Redux: what it's really like to develop for PS4 and Xbox One

As tech interviews go, this one's a corker. Readers of our previous Metro 2033 and Metro Last Light tech Q&As will know…

www.eurogamer.net

Try and not use sources that are years out of date.

Hot Chips 2020 Live Blog: Microsoft Xbox Series X System Architecture (6:00pm PT)

www.anandtech.com

09:35PM EDT - Q: Are you happy as DX12 as a low hardware API? A: DX12 is very versatile - we have some Xbox specific enhancements that power developers can use. But we try to have consistency between Xbox and PC. Divergence isn't that good. But we work with developers when designing these chips so that their needs are met. Not heard many complains so far (as a silicon person!). We have a SMASH driver model. The games on the binaries implement the hardware layed out data that the GPU eats directly - it's not a HAL layer abstraction. MS also re-writes the driver and smashes it together, we replace that and the firmware in the GPU. It's significantly more efficient than the PC.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is such bullshit.

Dirt 5 was an early preview build of a poor cross-gen game running at 4k/60 and in 120fps modes.

Halo has never been shown running on XsX.

Yakuza performance looks in line with Yakuza performance on PC and will have parity on PS5

Sekiro looks great? Mostly 60 fps in an untouched and unenhanced BC title is impressive. Not sure you'd even mention Sekiro.

Hitman 3 has never been shown running on XsX.

If you're going to spread FUD, at least try not to pull it out of your ass. Leave that to Twitter.

Man, Yakuza looks like shit, and will have parity with PS5. Assets are more likely 1080p, 4K can't make it any better. Same with Dirt 5, it simply looks very bad. Sekiro is old game and won't talk about it, and Hitman on PS5 even for a grossgen is galaxies ahead of Yakuza and Dirt 5 on XSX. You can't keep blaming the devs, trust me:

Yakuza, it wasn't even labeled as 4K in the official xbox website before they overhauled the page:

Even Avengers, the fucking mediocre game, looks better on PS5

DIRT 5

GT Sport at 1440p checkerboarded to 4K on PS4 Pro:

And here, so you don't be upset, Forza 7 on XOX:

People aren't blind, DIRT 5 and Yakuza look like shit, and that's the only thing we saw running in a dodgy way.

 

[Riky]

I think it will be the opposite, ps5 games so far have shown more in game performance, although XSX will hopefully improve as SDK is developed. Although I am not sure its just the SDK as being held up as holding back, the whole cache and arrangement on silicon looks to me to prioritise the server application, and dont get me started on larger shader arrays to keep 4 of them to match the server requirement.....

The AMD pC designs will not have larger than 10 CU shader arrays, for sure, with fast clocks and optimsied caches for running 1 game.

We have seen dirt 5, halo, Yakuzza, Sekiro and Hitman 3 XSX performance, you cant keep blaming the devs.

Halo was on PC, Sekiro is an Xbox One game that ran poorly last gen and reaches 60fps or close on XSX with no patch. The others we haven't seen a PS5 direct comparison for the same game.

You're sounding pretty desperate.

 

[R3claimer117]

Man, Yakuza looks like shit, and will have parity with PS5. Assets are more likely 1080p, 4K can't make it any better. Same with Dirt 5, it simply looks very bad. Sekiro is old game and won't talk about it, and Hitman on PS5 even for a grossgen is galaxies ahead of Yakuza and Dirt 5 on XSX. You can't keep blaming the devs, trust me:

Yakuza, it wasn't even labeled as 4K in the official xbox website before they overhauled the page:

Even Avengers, the fucking mediocre game, looks better on PS5

DIRT 5

GT Sport at 1440p checkerboarded to 4K on PS4 Pro:

And here, so you don't be upset, Forza 7 on XOX:

People aren't blind, DIRT 5 and Yakuza look like shit, and that's the only thing we saw running in a dodgy way.

You can’t be this obtuse I know you’re a Sony fan but this is like just stupid. You’re comparing different games why not compare avengers on series x to avengers on PS5? What kinda logic you’re using will not make PS5 more powerful than series X. Just because they have games that have to be patched in doesn’t mean when those patches come in they won’t have a better version of the game either. It’s concerning why they are behind maybe due to Covid or whatever delay they suffered but it’s not even remotely accurate to do comparisons the way you are.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

Man, Yakuza looks like shit, and will have parity with PS5. Assets are more likely 1080p, 4K can't make it any better. Same with Dirt 5, it simply looks very bad. Sekiro is old game and won't talk about it, and Hitman on PS5 even for a grossgen is galaxies ahead of Yakuza and Dirt 5 on XSX. You can't keep blaming the devs, trust me:

Come on now Bo, bullshots from PS5 games that we haven't seen running on XsX? You're better than this.

Dirt 5 looks poor. Yakuza looks good enough, but it's an old game and it's running within expectations. Both will be cross-gen and multiplatform, so why not wait to compare them rather than use their poor visuals as evidence the XsX is somehow inferior?

I never downplay the PS5 visuals, yet there's Xbox fans posting screenshots from Miles and Bugsnax that look worse than Dirt 5. It's equally irrelevant and meaningless.

Both systems will see parity, it's almost certain. Let's enjoy it?

 

[SSfox]

How so? XSX will still be the best system to play 3rd party games on, graphically. BUT this specific game, that is being dragged down due to a marketing deal with Microsoft, a game that's focused on gameplay, why would I then focus on graphics.

There's a big difference between specific games, and all games in general.

Yeah, for loading time/no RT fans XSX is definitely the console to go with to play 3rd parties games.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

Lol what? Can you please give me the footage of those games running on XSX, and also footage of Dirt5 and Yakuza running on PS5. You compare the same games, not CoD on PS5 with Dirt5 on XSX...

You cant talk about multiplat comparison & start omitting games. WTF. Dirt 5 is going to be Dirt 5 no matter the box.Its not a spectacular game. Xbox or PS5. Its only you xbox guys capping for this game. We don't care if is 24 frames, screen tearing. We wont be playing anyway.

The facts are DMC5SE,COD,2K will have RT,Fast loading. This is automatically going to be better than XSX version with its one day,someday next E3 RT Disclaimer. Just take the L. Right now the PS5 has better multiplats. That's what it is. Non debatable.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Come on now Bo, bullshots from PS5 games that we haven't seen running on XsX? You're better than this.

Dirt 5 looks poor. Yakuza looks good enough, but it's an old game and it's running within expectations. Both will be cross-gen and multiplatform, so why not wait to compare them rather than use their poor visuals as evidence the XsX is somehow inferior?

I never downplay the PS5 visuals, yet there's Xbox fans posting screenshots from Miles and Bugsnax that look worse than Dirt 5. It's equally irrelevant and meaningless.

Both systems will see parity, it's almost certain. Let's enjoy it?

Yup, it's more like a backfire as many were shit piling over PS5 games, you just got caught up in the mess. Yakuza is 4K@30fps and 1440p@60fps on XSX without RT, Spider-man MM is 4K@30fps with RT, 4K@60fps with SSR instead. Demon's Souls is 4K@30fps with RT, and 4K@60fps with less RT. Dirt 5 dips down to 1440p and 30fps in Dynamic 4K quality mode on XSX, with lots of screen tearing and shimmering.

Those are the only games we've seen yet running on XSX, I blame MS and Xbox here. Both could be extremely rushed to run on XSX btw, and probably that's why PS5's versions are delayed because Sony has better quality control over such things. But with the deal with Xbox, I can still see them go for low effort parity.

And trust me, we as PS fans always trash Sony, but many xbox fans do too much damage control instead of putting pressure and demand more from Xbox.

Bugsnax looks like crap, it's became a meme if you're not noticing, but it's an indie game and has intriguing gameplay that might see people buy it for laughs, like that octopus game.

Anyway, have a good day.

You can’t be this obtuse I know you’re a Sony fan but this is like just stupid. You’re comparing different games why not compare avengers on series x to avengers on PS5? What kinda logic you’re using will not make PS5 more powerful than series X. Just because they have games that have to be patched in doesn’t mean when those patches come in they won’t have a better version of the game either. It’s concerning why they are behind maybe due to Covid or whatever delay they suffered but it’s not even remotely accurate to do comparisons the way you are.

There is no game that is running on both systems right now, Avengers hasn't shown XSX version, nor Hitman 3. That's what you have for now.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

Man, even this GIF has screen tearing.

The should have called it the Xbox Tearing X!

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Ok, let's hear them out:

Spoiler: DF PS5 teardown video

 

[thurnishaleygw]

Gaf, you are being possessed by the 3rd party multiplat Devil, time to grab my old dusty Bible...

 

[Garani]

Wait. If the PS4 was sometimes loud and the quote I quoted says that it won't always be quieter than the PS4, that means that sometimes the sound level will be louder, making it also loud.
It's basic logic.

quieter means “less than”, that’s basic grammar. So it means that it could be just as quiet.
Like in the dashboard: PS4 is quiet and ps5 could be just as quiet, not quieter.

Translating between languages is always difficult.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

No thanks. Guaranteed calamity. They are not engineers. These guys are no different to us. At least we get closer to a consensus agreement & we just banta in here.

1 of you good people drop a summary please.

 

[onesvenus]

quieter means “less than”, that’s basic grammar. So it means that it could be just as quiet.
Like in the dashboard: PS4 is quiet and ps5 could be just as quiet, not quieter.

Translating between languages is always difficult.

Great, now that we are into semantics bear with me. Even if the PS5 is just as quiet as the PS4 as you say, and taking into account that PS4 is loud, what does that say about the PS5?

 

[Dibils2k]

No thanks. Guaranteed calamity. They are not engineers. These guys are no different to us. At least we get closer to a consensus agreement & we just banta in here.

1 of you good people drop a summary please.

no thanks but want a summary? sounds like you wanna hear what they said lol

 

[Deleted member 775630]

You cant talk about multiplat comparison & start omitting games. WTF. Dirt 5 is going to be Dirt 5 no matter the box.Its not a spectacular game. Xbox or PS5. Its only you xbox guys capping for this game. We don't care if is 24 frames, screen tearing. We wont be playing anyway.

The facts are DMC5SE,COD,2K will have RT,Fast loading. This is automatically going to be better than XSX version with its one day,someday next E3 RT Disclaimer. Just take the L. The PS5 has better multiplats. That's what it is. Non debatable.

Who is we?

And again, listing titles for which we haven't seen XSX doesn't say anything. You need to compare the same title running on both systems.

 

[BigLee74]

I think it will be the opposite, ps5 games so far have shown more in game performance, although XSX will hopefully improve as SDK is developed.

Until you see the same game running on both systems, you are merely dreaming.

I actually think its quite telling that Sony hasn't shown any BC games like MS. Reason? Well, I believe most of them will run unpatched, and will therefore perform significantly worse than they will on the Xbox, taking no advantage of the PS5s extra power.

Third party new games? My money is on the machine with the bigger GPU, CPU and faster memory to eek a 'win'.

In either case, Sony has yet to prove anything because they haven't shown anything! They are just as bad on that front as MS are on showing true next gen games.

The truth is coming I guess!

 

[sircaw]

Console warring isn't being civil, he gets a free pass to spread FUD including literally inventing games and posting isolated BC screenshots and peddling that as universal truth.

Halo wasn't running on XsX, that's a fact. It looks like trash but that's the game's fault (I blame 343i) not the PC nor the XsX. But here we are, trying to justify the PS5 by running down it's competition rather than talking about the PS5.

Go ahead and report me, I'd love the mods to clamp down on the console warring bullshit in here from all sides, Xbox fans included.

You're getting out of control, take a breath and relax. Jokes and humor are one thing but you're getting aggressive for some reason, they ain't right dude.

I have made lots of mistakes or misquoted something on this forum, it does not mean i was intentionally spreading fud about something either. How many mistakes have you made? I am sure you have made plenty.

Chill out and stop getting so wound up. This particular forum has been pretty chilled out the last few days, don't ruin it for everyone think and remember, we are a community.

fish Rule
xxxx

Sweet Jesus i am beginning to sound like Mod of War CRY

 

[sircaw]

Bugsnax looks like crap, it

EXCUSE ME?

 

[Antelope]

I was really hoping for a 5 second video. Zoom in on Alex: “Uninteresting.” Cut to black.

Alas, they just did their jobs.

 

[Dodkrake]

Love the narrative "bullshots"

Spiderman MM was all "bullshots", but then it wasn't.

Nice, right?

 

[On Demand]

Ok, let's hear them out:

Spoiler: DF PS5 teardown video

“A man in a room taking apart the PS5”

You mean like every tear down video ever? Why must DF sound so against and down on anything Sony related? He even complained about the way Sony gives information just a few seconds into the video.

I don’t get DF at all.

 

[ToadMan]

Might it be possible that people makes a mistake instead of immediately going to start screaming he's a liar, FUD spreading and console warring?

Hitman was a booboo, Halo is not, it was pc footage performant of an XSX. I believe MS did say that themselves on the footage disclaimer. So using it to say that is a lie of some sort seems weird to me. It's even worse that it was not running on the XSX IMO.

Now let's be civil to each other shall we?

 

[Garani]

Great, now that we are into semantics bear with me. Even if the PS5 is just as quiet as the PS4 as you say, and taking into account that PS4 is loud, what does that say about the PS5?

Semantic is one thing, FUD is another.

re-read the translation and you will find out that he talks about situations where it isn’t quieter. Have you got a list of those situations? No, you don’t.

the only reports we have come from Japanese Youtubers that swear they couldn’t hear the box.

so, can we move away from the FUD or shall we remain at this kindergarten level discussion?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

“A man in a room taking apart the PS5”

You mean like every tear down video ever? Why must DF sound so against and down on anything Sony related? He even complained about the way Sony gives information just a few seconds into the video.

I don’t get DF at all.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

You're getting out of control, take a breath and relax. Jokes and humor are one thing but you're getting aggressive for some reason, they ain't right dude.

I have made lots of mistakes or misquoted something on this forum, it does not mean i was intentionally spreading fud about something either. How many mistakes have you made? I am sure you have made plenty.

Chill out and stop getting so wound up. This particular forum has been pretty chilled out the last few days, don't ruin it for everyone thank and remember

fish Rule
xxxx

Sweet Jesus i am beginning to sound like Mod of War CRY

Yeah but let's cut out the console warring. Spreading FUD and concern trolling over XsX performance is ruining the mood here far more.

If you have issues, feel free to report me but backseat modding isn't a good look for you

 

[SlimySnake]

Oh you haven't heard. Digital Fraudery are not doing that anymore as it will expose xbox. Goal post move for their master.

lol its like you guys are trying to get banned. did you not see the mod note yesterday?

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Oh you haven't heard. Digital Fraudery are not doing that anymore as it will expose xbox. Goal post move for their master.






PS5 is the next gen box. Using new process. With the new graphical fidelity of UE5 & Demon Souls. Xbox couldn't even get a 5 minute demo to showcase that level.Instead they jumped into BC games & talking about scaling to xbox one lol.

XSX is a suped up 1X ,its built to be the best current gen of development. Now they have to build for a 4TF box with Series S. Xbox is not reaching PS5 fidelity. The PS5 SSD & I/O is serious business. To get to PS5 level. Xbox is going to need new hardware.





You playing birdbox?? Couple of weeks? Its already happening now. Multiplats look & run better on PS5 already. COD,DMC5SE,NBA2K. Its Actual PS5 footage. They have better visuals, and have better load times.As of now this is non debatable facts. XSX has no captured footage of these games,disclaimers of RT patch in at some unknown time frame.

multiplats look and run better on PS5 already? you're not kidding right? We are yet to see the XSX versions of the same games running to make such a judgement. XSX being a suped up 1x is the most hilarious thing to describe the console. It's ok to joke on things man, but be reasonable at least. 1X can't hold a candle next to XSX in raw GPU/CPU performance, let alone the SSD and velocity architecture!

 

[kyliethicc]

Just a heads up boys, Sony updated the PlayStation Network avatars today. In a moment of sheer brilliance, Sony have added, completely free of charge I remind you, the beloved character of Knack, brainchild of Mark Cerny, creator of the legendary 2013 game Knack, and its universally praised masterpiece of a sequel, Knack II. Do be sure not to miss this incredible opportunity to bestow your PSN profile with the iconic character from Sony's flaghsip PlayStation 4 franchise.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

multiplats look and run better on PS5 already? you're not kidding right? We are yet to see the XSX versions of the same games running to make such a judgement. XSX being a suped up 1x is the most hilarious thing to describe the console. It's ok to joke on things man, but be reasonable at least. 1X can't hold a candle next to XSX in raw GPU/CPU performance, let alone the SSD and velocity architecture!

Eh man you can come to your own conclusions. But what we all see is 12TF hype, Veloceraptor goofy marketing names. And the results are Craig ,Dirt 5 with screen tears & Yakuza. No RT games. Not even 1 demo to showcase 12 TF power.Not even a demo. If there's nothing showcased above the 1X then yes this is a suped up 1X. Does 1X pro sound better??

Execs & actual engineers saying RT doesn't matter. Eh man make your own conclusions sir.

Who is we?

And again, listing titles for which we haven't seen XSX doesn't say anything. You need to compare the same title running on both systems.

Oh you want this dumb proof.Its already over in the multiplat discussion. Its already confirmed that XSX RT patch will be coming in an unknown time frame. The PS5 has full features of those games at launch, fast loading etc,etc As shown to us with capture on PS5 trailers.

If your version looks "worse" & is missing features the other platform has. Your version is not the best. That is XSX.
It cannot win a comparison in those games. It doesn't even have RT to be in the convo.

So right now. PS5 has the better multiplats. That simple.

 

[Loxus]

Ok, let's hear them out:

Spoiler: DF PS5 teardown video

3 of the biggest takeaways.
-Will done analysis
-Still butthurt about not having a PS5
-APU could be up to 320 mm2

 

[onesvenus]

re-read the translation and you will find out that he talks about situations where it isn’t quieter. Have you got a list of those situations? No, you don’t.

So let me get this straight. The exact quote Mr. Otori says is "The sound of the cooling fan during the game varies depending on the situation, but PS5 is generally quieter than PS4"" and from your point of view we can't say that there are situations where the PS5 is louder than the PS4? Because that's all I'm saying.
Seeing that we don't know in which situations the PS5 is louder than the PS4, saying that it will be quieter or louder than the PS4 when playing games is spreading FUD.
I was just making the point that some posters here were saying that the PS5 would always be quieter than the PS4.

 

[T-Cake]

Just a heads up boys, Sony updated the PlayStation Network avatars today. In a moment of sheer brilliance, Sony have added, completely free of charge I remind you, the beloved character of Knack, brainchild of Mark Cerny, creator of the legendary 2013 game Knack, and its universally praised masterpiece of a sequel, Knack II. Do be sure not to miss this incredible opportunity to bestow your PSN profile with the iconic character from Sony's flaghsip PlayStation 4 franchise.

How can I resist?!

But no, I'm very happy with my custom upload photo of Vaas from Far Cry 3. He's one mean looking mofo.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Oh you want this dumb proof.Its already over in the multiplat discussion. Its already confirmed that XSX RT patch will be coming in an unknown time frame. The PS5 has full features of those games at launch. As shown to us with capture on PS5 trailers.

For which game?

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Oh you want this dumb proof.Its already over in the multiplat discussion. Its already confirmed that XSX RT patch will be coming in an unknown time frame. The PS5 has full features of those games at launch, fast loading etc,etc As shown to us with capture on PS5 trailers.

If your version looks "worse" & is missing features the other platform has. Your version is not the best. That is XSX.
It cannot win a comparison in those games. It doesn't even have RT to be in the convo.

So right now. PS5 has the better multiplats. That simple.

I am just not sure if you're serious or borderline trolling