Support NeoGAF

[Yoboman]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

I really hope you're getting paid to look this ridiculous

 

[MrFunSocks]

Nice to know we have a PlayStation expert in here. Please continue.

I’d like to think Cerny is an expert on it, and that’s what he said.....

Cerny said the GPU will be capped at a 2.23GHz cycle, which can generate a maximum of 10.3 teraflops on 36 AMD RDNA2 compute units. That's a bit lower than the 12.155 teraflops Microsoft is touting for its Xbox Series X GPU. The PS5 CPU will be capped at a 3.5GHz speed, and Cerny said he expects that chip to spend most of its time at that maximum.

.

 

[geordiemp]

No, they can’t. The listed clock speeds were the maximum the cpu and gpu can reach. The gpu cannot reach that clock speed unless it is taking power away from the cpu, at which time the cpu isn’t at its max clock speed.

Clcokspeed clockspeed clockspeed clockspeed clockspeed clockspeed clockspeed clockspeed

Downclock Downclock Downclock Downclock Downclock Downclock Downclock Downclock

 

[reksveks]

Not everything has to be monetised on top of what you're already paying for the game

In comparison to doing nothing, there has to be some financial reward for the dev either in the short term or long term be that increased player counts that leads to better mtx, more word of mouth leading to better sales or some other rationale. I am also a bit concerned that its kinda locked behind PS+ (does anyone know the attach rate on that?) means that it might make it less appealing to some devs.

 

[Valued Gamer]

Probably Bluepoint acquisition?

Sony just need to get the Bluepoint aquisition done. Everyone knows they should do it.

Same with MS and Asobo. Just get it done already.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I’d like to think Cerny is an expert on it, and that’s what he said.....

.

What you are wrong about is how the power shifting occurs; it's not some linear relationship between CPU and GPU clock. It's more complex than that.

For light workloads it's likely both can be clocked at maximum for instance. Once the workload causes the amount of watts needed to go beyond the cap is when one or the other is intelligently adjusted based on the workload.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I keep hearing this statement. Sony isnt Microsoft, if sony was microsoft everytime a df video about how a game runs/feels better on the pro they would tweet it out and get in some discord calls and ham it up but they dont. edit before anyone says there is no such thing the watch dogs legion df video and i am pretty sure one of the resident evil remakes are examples off the top of my head. resolution isnt everything.

Did they not have a press conference where the god of PlayStation laid their cards on the table? I believe they did.

 

[reksveks]

It's hard to convey touch and haptics in visual marketing materials, but if I were working on a piece for Sony I'd incorporate some of those design elements where the collision occurs to better express the sensation.

Visuals are so 'easy' once you get past the shitty YT compression in comparison to the DualSense. Covid has done a number on that feature in my opinion.

 

[Imtjnotu]

dualsense just showed up.

my god it feels so much nicer than my DS4

 

[sircaw]

dualsense just showed up.

my god it feels so much nicer than my DS4

Touch it Honey, touch it.

 

[captainclutch777]

dualsense just showed up.

my god it feels so much nicer than my DS4

I've been telling my friends that the controller is the real next gen deal for months and nobody really believed me, but after hearing all these early reviews on it, its clear that Sony killed it. Those triggers are huge. Can't wait.

 

[Zadom]

I’d like to think Cerny is an expert on it, and that’s what he said.....

.

This response is not for you but for anyone who might be concerned by your FUD.

Cerny said :”There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz, it isn't the case that the developer has to choose to run one of them slower."

from this article: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-playstation-5-the-mark-cerny-tech-deep-dive

 

[Games Dean]

Oooh I know! Hal........oh.

 

[Mr Moose]

I’d like to think Cerny is an expert on it, and that’s what he said.....

.

"There's enough power that both CPU and GPU can potentially run at their limits of 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz, it isn't the case that the developer has to choose to run one of them slower."

"So, when I made the statement that the GPU will spend most of its time at or near its top frequency, that is with 'race to idle' taken out of the equation - we were looking at PlayStation 5 games in situations where the whole frame was being used productively. The same is true for the CPU, based on examination of situations where it has high utilisation throughout the frame, we have concluded that the CPU will spend most of its time at its peak frequency."

Put simply, with race to idle out of the equation and both CPU and GPU fully used, the boost clock system should still see both components running near to or at peak frequency most of the time.

PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive

On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …

www.eurogamer.net

This, maybe.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Oooh I know! Hal........oh.

something from the previous gen

 

[geordiemp]

xxx

What you are wrong about is how the power shifting occurs; it's not some linear relationship between CPU and GPU clock. It's more complex than that.

For light workloads it's likely both can be clocked at maximum for instance. Once the workload causes the amount of watts needed to go beyond the cap is when one or the other is intelligently adjusted based on the workload.

He is not interested in reading anything and does not want to understand, he is just posting the same thing for a few days now , repeatadly. Its called trolling.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I've been telling my friends that the controller is the real next gen deal for months and nobody really believed me, but after hearing all these early reviews on it, its clear that Sony killed it. Those triggers are huge. Can't wait.

its real nice in the hands.

thumbsticks feel farther apart now and not so cramped. dpad feels okay ish? still sort of mushy.

face buttons are fine and the sticks feel super smooth but not loose.

best thing i think is the weight of this thing. it just feels......solid

 

[IntentionalPun]

dualsense just showed up.

my god it feels so much nicer than my DS4

It really does feel nice.

Mine is charging up ready to go for the 12th... although that'll be just Astros Playground and then leaving it on overnight to download actual games while Sony's servers are getting hammered to shit lol

 

[MrS]

Tetris Effect pvp 4real. Looks so good

 

[3liteDragon]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/video-games/ps-5-release-games-features/

“The people I’ve been talking to over the past few months and the past couple of years who are actually working on the PlayStation have pretty much unanimously all said, like, ‘This thing is a beast,’” Jason Schreier, a well-sourced Bloomberg reporter best known for his reporting on labor practices in the video game industry, said on a podcast recorded shortly after Cerny’s talk. Schreier provided another quote as well: “‘This thing is one of the coolest pieces of hardware that we’ve ever seen before.’”

About Mark Cerny

At first glance, Cerny is perfectly unassuming. He has a pleasant lilt to his voice, and sort of resembles Stephen Malkmus, or really any 90s indie rocker still active in 2020. But his modest nonappearance belies the fact that he is arguably the architect of PlayStation’s last decade of success. This year alone, you’ll find Cerny’s name in the credits for two launch titles on the PS5, “Spider-Man: Miles Morales” and “Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart,” not to mention the console itself.

Cerny began his career in 1982 as an arcade game programmer. Since then, he’s held roles ranging from programmer and designer to executive and hardware architect (aside from the PS5, he’s led the design of the PlayStation Vita handheld, as well as the PlayStation 4 and PlayStation 4 Pro). In 1998, he became a contractor, working directly with game teams and eventually on hardware as well.

Regarding Data Management and How The SSD Affects Game Design

If you’ve taken an interminable elevator ride in a game, you’ve experienced a game trying to cleverly hide what it’s doing under the hood: loading you into a new stage. Cerny himself has called out “euphemistically named ’fast travel.’” These are often clever and technically impressive tricks. But they also take time to implement, and require developers to puzzle over how to bend restrictive hardware into a shape that approximates the game maker’s ambition. That’s time and brainpower not spent thinking about the game itself.

Cerny does studio tours every two years, talking to developers about their needs, and how they feel about the PlayStation hardware with which they’re working. This approach — and Cerny’s close familiarity with the game development process — feeds back into the console design.

Cerny: So much of design today has to do with data management. Situations where literally — I’m not making these kinds of stories up — literally, the creative director will say, let’s put the entrance to the secret lair here. And the lead programmer will say, ‘It won’t fit in memory,’ or ‘okay, we’ll need a 30 second load screen that’ll kill the momentum of the gameplay,’ or ‘How do you feel about a long elevator ride down to the lair?

How many trash cans are there in New York City? This isn’t a consulting firm interview question — it’s a question about data storage. If you break up “Spider-Man’s” virtual New York City into city blocks and store all the data of each block together, as a chunk on the hard disk, you will have copied the same trash can (and mailbox, streetlamp, halal food cart and so on) hundreds of times across the disk. Cerny and his team did this on the PS4 to speed up load times, but the result was a lot of wasted space. One trash can might be a negligible file size, but 400 will add up.

The SSD smooths over these kinds of questions. Cerny estimates that with an HDD, loading 1GB of data takes 20 seconds. By contrast, the SSD can load 2GB of data in roughly a quarter of a second. For players, that means more time in-game. For developers, it also means less time stressing over data management. “With an SSD you’re able to talk about what you’re going to create rather than how you’re going to create it,” says Cerny.

“The solid state drive is a game changer, particularly for ‘Demon’s Souls.’ … With the original I think that the frustration that the game had didn’t come from the dying or the challenges. It came from the long load times waiting to get back into the game to take revenge and get your souls back and carry on with your adventure,” says Moore. Now? Your character dies and you’re right back in. There will still be “elevator rides” in “Demon’s Souls,” says Moore. But now, they are a creative choice, not a restriction. They’re there to build tension.

“I think we can’t undersell the dev investment that we would put into the technical, laying out of these things and working it all out,” said Brian Horton, creative director on “Spider-Man: Miles Morales.” “It was a heavy overhead that no one ever saw, and our job was to make sure no one understood all this. Now we just get to make content.”

3D Audio

“There’s a pecking order within the game teams. The graphics folks get the lion’s share of the hardware resources and the audio team has to struggle to get much anything at all,” says Cerny. Once, while briefing a developer on the PS5′s high performance audio processor, he says was told, “Great, we’ll use that unit for AI.” During one of his studio tours, Cerny recalled meeting 120 workers — none of whom worked in audio.

“It isn’t as if the developers didn’t know I wanted to talk audio. In fact, I’d made it fairly explicit. It’s that audio is somehow viewed as being auxiliary to the rest of the game, when it’s absolutely at the center,” says Cerny. “During game development it’s pretty typical to make a first playable demo that over-indexes on the graphics — the graphics might be at near-publishable quality — but have audio that’s just placeholder.”

3-D audio, which, as the name implies, positions audio in space around the player, is a passion of Cerny’s. “Game audio is certainly functional,” he says. “I wanted it to be amazing.” To develop it, he enlisted the work of international experts across Tokyo, San Mateo and London. (“Trust me when I tell you that makes it rather hard to schedule a teleconference,” said Cerny). Now, because audio is so crucial to immersion (and is thereby important to Cerny) the PS5 boasts impressive new audio capabilities. And in the meantime, the old way of doing things — in this case, sidelining audio engineers — is quietly being nudged.

“The audio side is now more of a full team blending a wide range of expertise, including level and enemy design,” said Harry Krueger, game director on “Returnal,” a third person shooter about a space pilot stuck in a time loop. It’s also a horror game, where audio really matters in creating the proper tension for players. “Each sound source is recorded in relation to how a real person would hear the sound actually coming from each direction. … It’s similar to the way we have always done things, but now we simply record things many times from many directions, apply more nuanced layers, and then of course spend even more time tweaking things in the final product.”

Picture a late-generation PS4 game. It probably looks pretty good! How much juice is there left to squeeze, really? Knowing this, Sony has opted to bring players deeper into the world with the PS5. “You can feel arrows rush past your head in this game. It’s quite disturbing,” says Moore about “Demon’s Souls.” “I play the game and I instantly move my head sometimes.”

That doesn’t just mean moments of action. “I think the [moment] that really stands out to me is a very simple one, the drops of rain falling on your head,” said Krueger, regarding “Returnal’s” implementation of 3-D audio. “It sounds weird and maybe too simplistic, but just standing still in the beginning sequence you can focus in on the very nuanced sounds of flames dancing by the wreckage of your ship while a slight drizzle falls from the tree canopy above.”

DualSense Features

The same holds for developers implementing haptic feedback in the controller, which replaces rumble to offer a more tactile play experience.

“Rumble always used to be something we would put in at the end. It was like, ‘Oh we need to put the rumble in because there’s camera shake.’ Haptics is completely different,” said Gavin Moore, creative director of the “Demon’s Souls” PS5 remake. “It’s something that you have to think about from the start because it works with the visual and the audio.”

“The web-swing is key to Spider-Man,” says Horton. “And because the triggers [of the PS5 controller] have that resistance, you actually feel when the web shoots out, you feel it connect to the wall and you feel resistance on the trigger as you go through the arc of the swing. So all of these haptic feedbacks and the resistance on the triggers has added another level immersion.”

Even the haptics play their part. “You can feel metal strike metal,” says Moore. And for players coming to the game anew, that added layer of feedback makes the experience much clearer. “You can feel it in your hands when you make a perfect parry to give you the counterattack. You can feel the block was correct. I hit home. I felt it hit home. I know I gave that boss damage, and I can get out there, move back and wait for their attack to come in. So it actually makes the gameplay better and it makes the game feel a little bit easier.”

PS5 UI Support For Demon's Souls

Immersion doesn’t end with sensory feedback. “Demon’s Souls,” a famously punishing game, will make use of the PS5′s activities UI, which offers helpful tips regarding certain tasks. Moore says there are over 180 videos, each with increasing levels of visibility into what’s needed to complete portions of the game, available via the interface. Stumped? Now you don’t even have to leave the screen.

Sony's Pitch For The Next Generation

On Oct. 28, Sony released its launch ad for the PlayStation 5. Like some final-week campaign message by a presidential campaign, all aspiration, it came bearing a message. In the ad, pupils dilate. Torrential rain pelts the windshield of a plane making its lonely sojourn through an all-encompassing storm. There’s sweat. Snow. Sand. Hot wind. Color, reflecting off a lens. Dust caught in a ray of sunlight. Bubbles stream past a diver’s face as he descends into a chthonic darkness. The extremes — they’re all here. Travis Scott, a maximalist in his own work, narrates. In a split second of footage, bright orange numbers tick up on a display. At one point, the camera zooms in on a fighter pilot’s dashboard, closing in on a label that simply reads “x100.”

Back in 2013, at a Game Developers Conference talk titled “Overview of PS4 for Developers,” a presenter walked the audience through some of the more fanciful features available on the PS4. The console could detect where players were sitting. It had facial recognition capabilities. One demo shown at the event had AR robots entering the player’s living room, as well as a horde of little guys — PlayStation’s Astro Bot character — living in the controller. Shaking the controller would send the robots screaming through an interior modeled after the inside of the Dualshock. A lot of these ideas didn’t really catch on.

The PS5 feels different. Immersion is the watchword, and every advertised feature of the PS5 is meant to bring players a step closer to that ideal. Forget the zany, out-there stuff (for now at least). Just give the players what they want, but better and more of it.

The PS5 might just change the composition of game development studios. It’ll likely change how often you feel empowered to leave the couch to grab a snack while a level loads. But more fundamentally, it may seek to change — or rather broaden — the category of people who play console games. Now all that’s left is for these features to be adopted, and preferably by studios that aren’t just working for or in close partnership with Sony. They won’t mean much to players until they are. “When we tell the world we put an SSD in the hardware, that’s interesting, but that’s interesting for about a month. What makes it work is that the games are picking up the SSD and using it in various ways,” said Cerny. “Ultimately, it isn’t the hardware that you put in the console. It’s what the games are doing.”

If you’ll indulge some cynicism, a $500 console launching in the midst of a pandemic, with economic relief in the U.S. likely only coming next year, if at all, is a tough sell. The hope, then, is that developers pick up the tool kit provided by the console and run with it, creating something new and exciting. A shiny new toy that doesn’t quite look like anything else in your entertainment center is one thing. A shiny new toy that is billed as the definitive means of sensory escapism — in 2020, no less — might be an easier pill to swallow.

“We’re just learning. This is our first jump,” says Cameron Christian, game director on “Miles Morales.” “And as we learn and get better, we’re going to be able to think of crazier things we can do with this technology, which is the most exciting part about it.”

 

[Thirty7ven]

It really does feel nice.

Mine is charging up ready to go for the 12th... although that'll be just Astros Playground and then leaving it on overnight to download actual games while Sony's servers are getting hammered to shit lol

I don’t understand this fear. There’s no way more people will be downloading say Demons Souls day one than there were people downloading TLoU2 for example.

 

[sircaw]

Oooh I know! Hal........oh.

What will be the biggest game for xbox i wonder, assassins creed or dirt? I looked at watchdogs and it looks a bit , boring but that's just me.

Xbox fans what will you be playing first on your nice new box.

No wars please, just normal game chat.

Edit, cyberpunk is arriving late i believe and i am not even sure there is a patch for the next gen consoles, someone could answer that better than me.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I don’t understand this fear. There’s no way more people will be downloading say Demons Souls day one than there were people downloading TLoU2 for example.

You might be right... still unlikely to be playing games day one either way, even on gigabit fiber still takes hours and I gotta work.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Oooh I know! Hal........oh.

Some NES classics in 1080p60 on XSS.

 

[xacto]

Oooh I know! Hal........oh.

That's how you troll with style

 

[reksveks]

What will be the biggest game for xbox i wonder, assassins creed or dirt? I looked at watchdogs and it looks a bit , boring but that's just me.

Xbox fans what will you be playing first on your nice new box.

No wars please, just normal game chat.

Edit, cyberpunk is arriving late i believe and i am not even sure there is a patch for the next gen consoles, someone could answer that better than me.

As Mr S said, Tetris will be one of those but might stream it to my phone whilst chilling in bed. Yakuza on the TV, and also need to try and get DQ11 done before Cyberpunk comes out*

*Cyberpunk is dependent on my GPU ever turning up.

 

[IntentionalPun]

its real nice in the hands.

thumbsticks feel farther apart now and not so cramped. dpad feels okay ish? still sort of mushy.

face buttons are fine and the sticks feel super smooth but not loose.

best thing i think is the weight of this thing. it just feels......solid

Thumbsticks are exactly the same distance; I think all the spacing is the same across sticks/buttons/etc.. just the shell itself is thikker.

 

[B_Boss]

...constant frequency variable power.

Now, is this the manner in which current consoles operate? (One X, Pro, Launch PS4, etc.)?

 

[Darklor01]

Touch it Honey, touch it.

On the bedsheets.

 

[cudiye]

Genuine question. Once you’ve played and platinumed astros playroom. Can you delete the game off the system storage to free up space? I hope so.

When deleting off the system it should stay in the profile game library and not completely deleted

 

[sircaw]

On the bedsheets.

Gonna need one of those UV lights in the morning to see what happened to those sheets in the night.

 

[Yoboman]

Genuine question. Once you’ve played and platinumed astros playroom. Can you delete the game off the system storage to free up space? I hope so.

When deleting off the system it should stay in the profile game library and not completely deleted

Maybe but its only 2 GB

 

[travisktl]

Genuine question. Once you’ve played and platinumed astros playroom. Can you delete the game off the system storage to free up space? I hope so.

When deleting off the system it should stay in the profile game library and not completely deleted

I can't imagine Sony forcing you to use that space on the hard drive if you're not wanting to play the game anymore. I'm sure it just goes into your library like every other game.

 

[MrS]

Gonna need one of those UV lights in the morning to see what happened to those shits in the night.

3.5mm port gonna get some use...

 

[Rossco EZ]

On the bedsheets.

let me know if it’s easy to wipe down

 

[Darklor01]

Gonna need one of those UV lights in the morning to see what happened to those shits in the night.

I already mentioned what happened when I took the thing out of it's box on Saturday LOL! (Not really, .. but.. mentally.. maybe).

 

[Killer Sakoman]

3.5mm port gonna get some use...

I won't be proud of myself if I can use 3mm port.

 

[sircaw]

I already mentioned what happened when I took the thing out of it's box on Saturday LOL! (Not really, .. but.. mentally.. maybe).

You are one filthy degenerate,
i like you

 

[Darklor01]

3.5mm port gonna get some use...

Ohhh.. you mean.. THIS?

 

[MrS]

Ohhh.. you mean.. THIS?

 

[sircaw]

Ohhh.. you mean.. THIS?

I can proudly say, judging by that slot you may call me Big boy

(Lets leave the discussion right there)

 

[saintjules]

 

[bitbydeath]

 

[Zadom]

Ohhh.. you mean.. THIS?

For those losers who wish this thread closed. May this thread never die.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Small shops in Saudi Arabia .
I remember beating many PS3 games before reviews come out.
I also bought GOW 2018 one week before release. I went digital after that.

 

[saintjules]

Small shops in Saudi Arabia .
I remember beating many PS3 games before reviews come out.
I also bought GOW 2018 one week before release. I went digital after that.

They hid the video, but I got it for those that missed it.

 

[DeadOblivion78]

Oooh I know! Hal........oh.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

They hid the video, but I got it for those that missed it.

I expect everything to start to leak this week before the next embargo lifts

 

[v_iHuGi]

WHAT THE GOD DAMN FUCK.

Also, the Series S pushing PS5? How strong is that Microsoft Kool-Aid? Good lord, Riky.

I'm reading this shit I can't stop laughing hahaha oh god

 

[Darklor01]

Gonna need one of those UV lights in the morning to see what happened to those shits in the night.

After just one night with the controller, I "Painted" this:

PS4 Dreams, eat your heart out!