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[jroc74]

Comparisons to Series X aside, it's great to see Playstation 5 just performing great!

Yeah, at the end of the day, its not that its looking better than the competition, It's just looking good period.

Makes the past year hilarious in hindsight. I expect the Series X to have better showings in the future. I always have.

"These consoles are the closest 2 consoles have ever been." Always believed that, listening to folks smarter and more knowledgeable than me.

Maybe now the FUD can stop and sensible conversations can be had.

 

[gullideckel]

remember when Dusk Goldem said the PS5 is struggling to get to 4k, but on Xbox its easy peasy?

 

[SSfox]

Yes please. Hopefully with an added 60fps mode.

Confirmed fake (unfortunately)

 

[jroc74]

Cerny does not miss. PS5 is a brilliant next gen system made for great games.

Someone said the best feature of the PS5 is Mark Cerny.

I agree, lol.

 

[thelastword]

Weren't the Dirt 5 developers the ones defending the Xbox development kit, saying it wasn't behind and stuff?

You can only do so much with bottlenecked hardware...

 

[renx]

At this point I'm certain that 99.99% of the so called "insiders" are fake. They're just people guessing, attention whores, and fanboys.
And this guy RGT (Paul) is more of the same. He will talk for 20 minutes, vague enough, making sure no one will remember if he was wrong, but he will receive a few applauses if he was right. Just more and more guesses.
"one of the insiders I trust the most, the other not as much", but blah blah. 100% fiction.

Yeah, PS5 is the more powerful console in GPU as well.
So people should be talking about the hell that is contained within the SoC, and about I/O pipelines.

I bet Cerny is probably cracking in his bathtub now, while hearing about "tools".
It turns out the Series X is the new PS3 now. Too hard to develop for.
And all of a sudden Ubisoft became champs on PS5 optimization. Sure, right.

 

[On Demand]

Another important note from the Dirt 5 developer

“PS5 GPU is in theory weaker......But the clocks are higher”


Mark Cerny on PS5’s 2.23ghz GPU clock

“A rising tide lifts all boats” 🛥

 

[renx]

Another important note from the Dirt 5 developer

“PS5 GPU is in theory weaker......But the clocks are higher”


Mark Cerny on PS5’s 2.23ghz GPU clock

“A rising tide lifts all boats” 🛥

That pretty much never worked on PC. So there should be a deeper explanation.
52 CU should obliterate a 350Mhz higher 36CU GPU, if they belong to the same tech.

PS5 has something else. Maybe MLID was right.
Or even better. Maybe Cerny and Matt Hargett were right.

 

[RaijinFY]

Some magnificent bs, holy hell...

 

[Kamina]

Some magnificent bs, holly hell...

Dusk Golem is a shill, and i hope nobody believes his trash anymore.

 

[thelastword]

remember when Dusk Goldem said the PS5 is struggling to get to 4k, but on Xbox its easy peasy?

So many insiders, so much FUD....Easy to spot the fakest ones, they always get upset with their panties in a bunch when people don't believe them or call out their obvious BS.

We've had many here.....

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

That pretty much never worked on PC. So there should be a deeper explanation.
52 CU should obliterate a 350Mhz higher 36CU GPU, if they belong to the same tech.

PS5 has something else. Maybe MLID was right.
Or even better. Maybe Cerny and Matt Hargett were right.

The bolded is a flaw in your reasoning. On PC a 56CU card and 36CU won't be inherently designed to perform in the same performance bracket, as the smaller "low end" card on PC will be handicapped with a pathetic memory bus, slower clocked VRAM, less ROPs, less GPU cache etc etc... so just clocking it higher to match the "TFLOPS" of the larger GPU will hit diminishing returns fairly quickly (the PS5 was specifically designed without these architectural and micro-architectural bottlenecks).

PC is never a good comparison to consoles as you will not find GPU product analogous to the PS5 on the PC side, so any conclusions you want to draw from PC will be less relevant to these consoles.

Your main point, however, is correct, i.e. it's not just about higher GPU clocks. The PS5 differs from the XSX in a number of very significant and important ways as it pertains to overall gaming perfromance.

There's a reason devs were unanimously praising the PS5 since it's initial announcement, while at the same time, very few even mentioned the XSX. It's not that the XSX isn't a powerful console. Rather the PS5 boasts a revolutionary design, both in terms of the technical make-up of the hardware, as well as user-experience innovations like the Dual-Sense. Cerny and AMD engineered a system with very few performance bottlenecks and I strongly believe that this is what we starting to see in all these performance comparisons.

 

[TrippleA345]

Another person that can be classified as completely implausible. Amateurs.

 

[SSfox]

I think it's the right time to bring back this meme XD

 

[onQ123]

And this is who they put their faith in lol

 

[geordiemp]

That pretty much never worked on PC. So there should be a deeper explanation.
52 CU should obliterate a 350Mhz higher 36CU GPU, if they belong to the same tech.

PS5 has something else. Maybe MLID was right.
Or even better. Maybe Cerny and Matt Hargett were right.

Important slides that many people miss and dont appreciate. We dont know ps5 cache system yet do we, or cache coherency and scrubber effects.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

RGT on the Assassin's Creed Valhala issues

"I'm going to quote what developers told slightly, I'm not going to read out the entire statements because I don't want to get them into trouble, so I was told that Ubisoft engineers that Watch Dogs Legion is slightly better optimised on the Series X than Assassin's Creed Valhala, Ubisoft Toronto were actually the first Ubisoft studio to actually receive Xbox development kits, but Ubisoft Montreal got the development kits in November of last year which is not terrible but of course they were definitely not final...speaking with the developers, up until July (ish) of this year Ubisoft were actually targeting 30 FPS on ALL console versions of the game, but they decided to up the frame-rate to 60 FPS...those targets were not updated as aggressively as they should have been given the 60 FPS nature"

"I do want to discuss the Series X and the tools situation because it's kinda become a meme at this point, and to my understanding speaking to 2 developers, one of which is more well tied into Playstation side of things who has given me a ton of information in the past which has been accurate, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they tell me this, they have said that Series X tool chain was perhaps not as advanced as Ubisoft would have wanted early on, although the tools are a lot better now, they were not as robust in the early bring up"

There were also issues with the drivers of the Series X GPU which actually lead to delays in mass production. I recommend watching the whole video.

Why is Assassin's Creed Valhala running better on Playstation 5?

"It seems that given the short time, it was easier to optimise on the Playstation 5 hardware these changes (from 30 to 60 FPS), I was told that Sony's profiling tools are a little more consistent and more advanced than Xbox... Sony's tools are a little more consistent compared to the previous generation".

"I think the Series X will improve as developers get more familiar with the hardware and the actual tools themselves improve, thats not to say the Playstation hardware is going to remain stagnant either, the tool change for the Playstation is going to continue to improve, Sony have teams like the ICE team who will do their dammest to improve the performance of the PS5 hardware".

Some other nuggets about the Playstation 5

"It's kinda like the PS4 and the PS3 architecture and had a baby which is the PS5, you've got the ease of the development of the PS4 and the depth of the PS3".

"I will also in the next day or two, put out a video because I actually learnt a lot more about the PS5 and the Series X which have not been detailed especially about the PS5...I now have a good understanding of what the DDR4 memory is and how much CPU allocation there is for the PS5, I'm just doing a couple of checks with the developers before I put out the video".

 

[SlimySnake]

PS5 has something else. Maybe MLID was right.
Or even better. Maybe Cerny and Matt Hargett were right.

something else:

Also this:

 

[Yoboman]

The "MS is ready to win on price and power and there is nothing Sony can do about it" fanboy narrative has existed since the original Xbox and pops up every generation

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

He might be right, because it's easy for Sony to read that and just ensure the first titles released run at 4k.
Later on, when more games are released, it's safe to upscale those games, because the first impression is what sticks.

I'm not saying he's right though, just saying it's easy to deceive consumers at this point, be it Sony or this guy.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

something else:

Also this:

Curious to see how that texture filtrate advantage for the Series X actually manifests because we already know the PS5 can load in super high res textures on the fly thanks to the massive throughput of the I/O.

As for the ray tracing that is also interesting, since the Series X with higher CU's can generate more rays but the higher clocks of the PS5 allow rays to bounce more.

 

[renx]

The bolded is a flaw in your reasoning. On PC a 56CU card and 36CU won't be inherently designed to perform in the same performance bracket, as the smaller "low end" card on PC will be handicapped with a pathetic memory bus, slower clocked VRAM, less ROPs, less GPU cache etc etc... so just clocking it higher to match the "TFLOPS" of the larger GPU will hit diminishing returns fairly quickly (the PS5 was specifically designed without these architectural and micro-architectural bottlenecks).

PC is never a good comparison to consoles as you will not find GPU product analogous to the PS5 on the PC side, so any conclusions you want to draw from PC will be less relevant to these consoles.

Your main point, however, is correct, i.e. it's not just about higher GPU clocks. The PS5 differs from the XSX in a number of very significant and important ways as it pertains to overall gaming perfromance.

There's a reason devs were unanimously praising the PS5 since it's initial announcement, while at the same time, very few even mentioned the XSX. It's not that the XSX isn't a powerful console. Rather the PS5 boasts a revolutionary design, both in terms of the technical make-up of the hardware, as well as user-experience innovations like the Dual-Sense. Cerny and AMD engineered a system with very few performance bottlenecks and I strongly believe that this is what we starting to see in all these performance comparisons.

But what I'm implying is exactly what you're saying.
The PS5 GPU is not a smaller Series X GPU. But the "press" is addressing the PS5 GPU not as a different GPU, but just smaller and then "performance should be lower".
They can't see that tech goes way further than just core count. Specially when there's innovation.
It could be different cache, different GE, higher bandwidth pipelines, etc.
But they don't care. It's all about 12 vs 10 for them.

It will be shocking if PS5 keeps winning on next games comparisons.
Now it's "strange" for them. Then it will be upgraded to "shocking".

 

[SlimySnake]

He might be right, because it's easy for Sony to read that and just ensure the first titles released run at 4k.
Later on, when more games are released, it's safe to upscale those games, because the first impression is what sticks.

I'm not saying he's right though, just saying it's easy to deceive consumers at this point, be it Sony or this guy.

i know a guy who knows him, and dusk really does have sources at Capcom. so what he heard might still be true. its possible their engine isnt playing with the ps5 hardware. its possible the xsx is really that powerful.

a couple of weeks ago, if you told me that the ps5 would offer 25% better framerate than the xbox series x in valhalla i wouldve laughed at you. I am a 100% open to the tables turning as the gen goes on even though i am not a 100% convinced the tools are the problem right now.

 

[On Demand]

That pretty much never worked on PC. So there should be a deeper explanation.
52 CU should obliterate a 350Mhz higher 36CU GPU, if they belong to the same tech.

PS5 has something else. Maybe MLID was right.
Or even better. Maybe Cerny and Matt Hargett were right.

First, cannot compare console and PC. 2 different architectures.

It’s not just the higher clock speed but everything else GPU related increases too.

There’s more to console design than just TF and other numbered metrics which is what the Dirt 5 developer meant by “in theory the GPU is weaker” meaning paper specs. Which as we can see by now doesn’t tell us anything about the true performance of a system. PS5 is clearly more powerful than the TF count suggests.

 

[On Demand]

i know a guy who knows him, and dusk really does have sources at Capcom. so what he heard might still be true. its possible their engine isnt playing with the ps5 hardware. its possible the xsx is really that powerful.

a couple of weeks ago, if you told me that the ps5 would offer 25% better framerate than the xbox series x in valhalla i wouldve laughed at you. I am a 100% open to the tables turning as the gen goes on even though i am not a 100% convinced the tools are the problem right now.

Nope. Sorry.

That dude was so sure that “PS fans need to prepare themselves for graphics comparisons” and SX performance gap would be huge. Nothing he said about PS5 has ever been true.

 

[Yoboman]

i know a guy who knows him, and dusk really does have sources at Capcom. so what he heard might still be true. its possible their engine isnt playing with the ps5 hardware. its possible the xsx is really that powerful.

a couple of weeks ago, if you told me that the ps5 would offer 25% better framerate than the xbox series x in valhalla i wouldve laughed at you. I am a 100% open to the tables turning as the gen goes on even though i am not a 100% convinced the tools are the problem right now.

Time to accept that Cerny knew what he was doing

 

[renx]

First, cannot compare console and PC. 2 different architectures.

It’s not just the higher clock speed but everything else GPU related increases too.

There’s more to console design than just TF and other numbered metrics which is what the Dirt 5 developer meant by “in theory the GPU is weaker” meaning paper specs. Which as we can see by now doesn’t tell us anything about the true performance of a system. PS5 is clearly more powerful than the TF count suggests.

But I was responding to the claim that PS5 is winning because of being narrow and faster.
And I'm exactly saying that there should be more, because narrow and faster has never been enough.

I wish we could have another Cerny speech explaining a few things, and of course completely unveiling the SoC.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Remember when Xbox fans also said Halo Infinite would look a lot better than the discover hope trailer, because that was One X footage?

 

[On Demand]

But I was responding to the claim that PS5 is winning because of being narrow and faster.
And I'm exactly saying that there should be more, because narrow and faster has never been enough.

I wish we could have another Cerny speech explaining a few things, and of course completely unveiling the SoC.

Crytek developer gave us hints months ago

(*) Ali Salehi, a rendering engineer at Crytek contrasts the next Gen consoles in interview (Up: Tweets/Article removed)

Original find belongs to @M-V2, I did translation and some editing and @CJY had also made a translation post in Next Gen Thread. Someone sent me this and very interesting reading... If it's not tralsated them translate it on Google chrome https://vigiato.net/p/85342 Edit 1: @benjohn is a...

www.neogaf.com

 

[ethomaz]

That pretty much never worked on PC. So there should be a deeper explanation.
52 CU should obliterate a 350Mhz higher 36CU GPU, if they belong to the same tech.

PS5 has something else. Maybe MLID was right.
Or even better. Maybe Cerny and Matt Hargett were right.

In PC.

1500Mhz 20CUs perform better than 1000Mhz 30CUs.
4ghz 4 Cores perform better than 2Ghz 8 cores.

 

[Dane]

RGT on the Assassin's Creed Valhala issues

"I'm going to quote what developers told slightly, I'm not going to read out the entire statements because I don't want to get them into trouble, so I was told that Ubisoft engineers that Watch Dogs Legion is slightly better optimised on the Series X than Assassin's Creed Valhala, Ubisoft Toronto were actually the first Ubisoft studio to actually receive Xbox development kits, but Ubisoft Montreal got the development kits in November of last year which is not terrible but of course they were definitely not final...speaking with the developers, up until July (ish) of this year Ubisoft were actually targeting 30 FPS on ALL console versions of the game, but they decided to up the frame-rate to 60 FPS...those targets were not updated as aggressively as they should have been given the 60 FPS nature"

"I do want to discuss the Series X and the tools situation because it's kinda become a meme at this point, and to my understanding speaking to 2 developers, one of which is more well tied into Playstation side of things who has given me a ton of information in the past which has been accurate, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt when they tell me this, they have said that Series X tool chain was perhaps not as advanced as Ubisoft would have wanted early on, although the tools are a lot better now, they were not as robust in the early bring up"

There were also issues with the drivers of the Series X GPU which actually lead to delays in mass production. I recommend watching the whole video.

Why is Assassin's Creed Valhala running better on Playstation 5?

"It seems that given the short time, it was easier to optimise on the Playstation 5 hardware these changes (from 30 to 60 FPS), I was told that Sony's profiling tools are a little more consistent and more advanced than Xbox... Sony's tools are a little more consistent compared to the previous generation".

"I think the Series X will improve as developers get more familiar with the hardware and the actual tools themselves improve, thats not to say the Playstation hardware is going to remain stagnant either, the tool change for the Playstation is going to continue to improve, Sony have teams like the ICE team who will do their dammest to improve the performance of the PS5 hardware".

Some other nuggets about the Playstation 5

"It's kinda like the PS4 and the PS3 architecture and had a baby which is the PS5, you've got the ease of the development of the PS4 and the depth of the PS3".

"I will also in the next day or two, put out a video because I actually learnt a lot more about the PS5 and the Series X which have not been detailed especially about the PS5...I now have a good understanding of what the DDR4 memory is and how much CPU allocation there is for the PS5, I'm just doing a couple of checks with the developers before I put out the video".

So it is true that the final software and hardware were very late than usual?

I do know that games from the launch up to six months are mostly developed under proto hardwares, on the X360 even Crackdown had its roots on the OG Xbox and X360 Beta 1 and 2 kits and kinda had the "stank" of a prototype hardware on its final game.

 

[ethomaz]

FUD everywhere.

 

[ethomaz]

Dusk Golem is a shill, and i hope nobody believes his trash anymore.

You know who called all that is happening?

Jason “Hated” Schreier.

 

[On Demand]

Wonder if this is true

 

[Garani]

Is it, really?

Even if so, that controller is something short of brilliancy!

Is this real?

Probably. Point is that that document tells us the the XBox "tools" have been in developers hands AT LEAST by February 2020. The colomn to the right is the part relative to certification, which is the last stage of development: going gold.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Is it, really?

I have 4 controllers none of mine are off but a friend's is worse then the one pictured here and now it triggers him

Probably. Point is that that document tells us the the XBox "tools" have been in developers hands AT LEAST by February 2019. The colomn to the right is the part relative to certification, which is the last stage of development: going gold.

I am on a small screen and admittedly cant see very well to begin with but how did you get the Feb 2019 from that document?

 

[MistBreeze]

impressions time:

- the ps5 is huge really and heavy too
- the console is not quite white white... it is weird accent maybe grayish white...
- the DualSense is the star here... it felt weird at first ( it is unexpected how it feels ) first time but after many applications for rumble types in astro it is revolutionary and there is these subtle sounds from the controller it is not like sound it felt from inside of it ... I can not describe it ... it adds greatly to the immersion in astro game
- the triggers wow - how did they do that - it is the first reaction to me after trying it .... some times it is squishy like rubber ... some times it is like really stiff - I feared it would break - and many many types for presses it is amazing
-the ui is slick and fast - still not used to it - yet to dive on card systems etc
- download speeds on it are really fast night and day from ps4

about the games:
I only played some astro and only first mission on miles morales

astro is genuine like really it controls great ... the movement... the jumping .... the animations .... the levels are breathtaking and varied scenarios there is no dull moment so far
miles is great start yet to comment on it

one gripe: no trophy chime anymore ??!!

 

[Garani]

I have 4 controllers none of mine are off but a friend's is worse then the one pictured here and now it triggers him

He can still getting it serviced with warranty. I mean, it doesn't matter, but I get him being triggered.

I am on a small screen and admittedly cant see very well to begin with but how did you get the Feb 2019 from that document?

You are right, it's February 2020. My mistake (I'll edit my post as well). Sorry for the error.

 

[VanSiriusGabriel]

Time to accept that Cerny knew what he was doing

What did you say? CERNY?! FOR REAL?!

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

But what I'm implying is exactly what you're saying.
The PS5 GPU is not a smaller Series X GPU. But the "press" is addressing the PS5 GPU not as a different GPU, but just smaller and then "performance should be lower".
They can't see that tech goes way further than just core count. Specially when there's innovation.
It could be different cache, different GE, higher bandwidth pipelines, etc.
But they don't care. It's all about 12 vs 10 for them.

It will be shocking if PS5 keeps winning on next games comparisons.
Now it's "strange" for them. Then it will be upgraded to "shocking".

Sure. I was mostly addressing your comment about PC.

 

[Garani]

- the ps5 is huge really and heavy too
- the console is not quite white white... it is weird accent maybe grayish white...
- the DualSense is the star here... it felt weird at first ( it is unexpected how it feels ) first time but after many applications for rumble types in astro it is revolutionary and there is these subtle sounds from the controller it is not like sound it felt from inside of it ... I can not describe it ... it adds greatly to the immersion in astro game
- the triggers wow - how did they do that - it is the first reaction to me after trying it .... some times it is squishy like rubber ... some times it is like really stiff - I feared it would break - and many many types for presses it is amazing

I agree. My son, the first thing he said was "it's heavy!". Colour wise, I test placed it with my TV stand, which is very white. Light isn't great (it was taken at night time), but you get that the console isn't white white:

Controller: between the Haptic feedback and the adaptive triggers, those feature really add a lot of fun in the gameplay!

 

[Epic Sax CEO]

something else:


Also this:

THIS IS GENIUS!
Microsoft made the GPU bigger cramming more CU's (they had their reasons) at each Shader Array, but both the SeX and the PS5 have the same number of Shader Arrays, so the PS5 may be faster by running then at a higher clock.

That Cerny really outsmarted then hard.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

I agree. My son, the first thing he said was "it's heavy!". Colour wise, I test placed it with my TV stand, which is very white. Light isn't great (it was taken at night time), but you get that the console isn't white white:

Controller: between the Haptic feedback and the adaptive triggers, those feature really add a lot of fun in the gameplay!

I hope you cut a big hole in the back of that shelf your PS5 is in. As otherwise in 3 months time you'll be making threads about how your PS5 is overheating.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I hope you cut a big hole in the back of that shelf your PS5 is in. As otherwise in 3 months time you'll be making threads about how your PS5 is overheating.

Especially if that cabinet has doors on the front that are closed it wont last long.

 

[FALCON_KICK]

I really think xbox is dead, they're even losing their only 1 advantage which is more powerful GPU than PS5. But it turns out PS5 is performing better. This generation Xbox's only savior is gamepass and they need to pump out tons of AAA games from their 1st party to keep xbox alive. PS5 demand is Too high even without these comparisons and now when people know that ps5 is more powerful, then lord save me for securing one ps5 next year.

ya, while I'm happy i have been right all along. I'm also worried that Sony may get cocky after this gen. Please remain humble, Mr. Cerny. And Phil, get the shit together and put up some real competition not just talking!

Microsoft made a cheaper console just for Gamepass so selling Xbox series X will be tough proposition if this lesser performance on Xbox Series X trend continues. They might have to lower their price for Xbox Series X if the "tools" can't close this gap.

Either way Microsoft has to make great AAA games outside of Halo/Gears/Forza to support their system.

Microsoft should stay in this console business as Sony getting cocky is not one part of the issue, another issue is Sony California is too involved in American political culture wars and pushing Censorship and SJW mandates, so without Microsoft, those Sony policies and mandates can spiral out of control.

 

[sircaw]

I really think xbox is dead, they're even losing their only 1 advantage which is more powerful GPU than PS5. But it turns out PS5 is performing better. This generation Xbox's only savior is gamepass and they need to pump out tons of AAA games from their 1st party to keep xbox alive. PS5 demand is Too high even without these comparisons and now when people know that ps5 is more powerful, then lord save me for securing one ps5 next year.

Ps. sircaw Let me steal your emote.

So many god damn thieves on this Forum.

Get your own, all of you

 

[Garani]

I hope you cut a big hole in the back of that shelf your PS5 is in. As otherwise in 3 months time you'll be making threads about how your PS5 is overheating.

It's actually completely open in the back and there is plenty of room to "vent off". Not as ideal as having it sit on the top, of course, and I am still not convinced if I want it there: I just placed it there without cables, and I can already tell you that the PS4Pro actually protudes a couple of cms outwards becuase of cable's plugs.

Anyhow, this is a XMas gift (the eldest is my partner in crime ) so it's now back in the box and waiting to be properly configured later on.

 

[JTCx]

He might be right, because it's easy for Sony to read that and just ensure the first titles released run at 4k.
Later on, when more games are released, it's safe to upscale those games, because the first impression is what sticks.

I'm not saying he's right though, just saying it's easy to deceive consumers at this point, be it Sony or this guy.

 

[MasterCornholio]

THIS IS GENIUS!
Microsoft made the GPU bigger cramming more CU's (they had their reasons) at each Shader Array, but both the SeX and the PS5 have the same number of Shader Arrays, so the PS5 may be faster by running then at a higher clock.

That Cerny really outsmarted then hard.

I guess it boils down to what you want to do with the GPU. Pretty sure Microsofts CU advantage will be helpful in some situations.

 

[Lysandros]

But XSX is the paperweight champion at least, it's unbeatable in its weight division.