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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
psorcerer said:
Anything I say is just my opinion on things (if it's not a known fact, obviously).
I have addressed what @ethomaz said.
My opinion is still the same: PC architecture is really bad for games, it can compete with a console only by brute-forcing things and developers not doing their job in optimizing the game.
Click to expand...

Let's pick this conversation up in the Graphics Tech thread I made.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
Somebody threw this up on reset in relation to ps5. Of course like everything else could be nothing 😁

"The recent leaks show the following specs which are most likely to be PS5

CPU: Zen2 8 cores @ 2.8 GHz
GPU: 52CUs@1.9GHz, 12.65 TFlops
POWER VR ray tracing
RAM: HBM2E 16GB + 8GB DDR4
SSD: 5~ 5.5 GB/s NVMe
 
R

R600

Banned
xool said:
I remember the pastebin 16GB GDDR6 and 4GB DDR4 leak .. but does it make sense - for GDDR6 and DDR4 you need two memory controllers on the APU for each type of RAM .. and the price difference vs just 20GB GDDR6 would be pretty small .. plus you get an effective bandwith increase with 20GB GDDR6 assuming the OS wasn't 100%ing it's 'DDR4 allocation' (sketchy don't take literally)

Is the trade price difference between GDDR6 and DDR4 really that big ? The tech really isn't different, just a different interface..
Click to expand...
There is no way to get 20GB of GDDR6 on 256bit bus.

You have 8 x 2GB chips (14-18Gbps). Only way to have 20GB is 16GB of GDDR6 + 4GB of DDR4.

In rumored XSX case you have 320bit bus which means 10 x 2GB chips (14-18Gbps) if they go with 20GB. If they want 16 they have to mix it (6 x 2GB + 4 x 1GB).

IMO there is little point in doing that so I expect full 20GB and 10 x 2GB.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
xool said:
I remember the pastebin 16GB GDDR6 and 4GB DDR4 leak .. but does it make sense - for GDDR6 and DDR4 you need two memory controllers on the APU for each type of RAM .. and the price difference vs just 20GB GDDR6 would be pretty small .. plus you get an effective bandwith increase with 20GB GDDR6 assuming the OS wasn't 100%ing it's 'DDR4 allocation' (sketchy don't take literally)

Is the trade price difference between GDDR6 and DDR4 really that big ? The tech really isn't different, just a different interface..
Click to expand...

The purpose of the DDR4 would be for better latency, which would suit background OS tasks well. Even though GDDR6 has really good (low) latencies they still aren't quite as low as, say, DDR4. There are still certain non-graphics tasks that could be better suited to a lower-latency memory like DDR4, is my guess.

Also adding in more GDDR6 may either facilitate clamshell mode or increasing the bus, both having their benefits and drawbacks. And maybe it's just easier to hard-partition background OS tasks to a different memory pool than virtually partitioning it on the GDDR6.

But probably the biggest reason is that PS4 (and Pro) handle the suspend/resume functionality through an ARM co-processor; ARM co-processors have DDR memory controllers, not GDDR, so Sony is limited to DDR memories there. And unlike the APU, the ARM co-processor is extremely low-power; these guys want to hit a very low power usage case when the systems are in Suspend/Resume state (especially the upcoming systems since it sounds like you'll be able to suspend/resume multiple games).

Dolodolo said:
[QUOTE = "CurryPanda, сообщение: 256409842, участник: 750182"]
[URL unfurl = "true"] https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/xbox-series-x-gpu.c3482 [/ URL]

[URL unfurl = "true"] https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/playstation-5-gpu.c3480 [/ URL]
[/ QUOTE]
Can you stop throwing off nonsense?
Click to expand...

They're...just listing the Techpowerup entries, which are placeholders. Literal placeholders.

What, is Techpowerup now toxic, too? Should their credibility be questioned for putting up placeholders? I could probably take a guess which of the entries got this response from you but damn, you guys need to chill out already xD.

EDIT: I did check out the link for the PS5 GPU and it IS kind of ridiculous to only expect 8GB of GDDR6 there. It'll be 16GB at the very least.
 
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DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
it_wasn't_me said:
Besides Bishoptl. :D
Click to expand...

AiFpkL8.jpg
 
R

R600

Banned
xool said:
That's (not) what I mean

Instead of :
  • 16GB GDDR6 256bit bus + 4GB DDR4 own bus
use
  • 20GB GDDR6 320bit bus (no DDR4)
Click to expand...
Oh ok, sorry. Yea, they could have I guess, but bus width is fundamental part of SOC and not exactly easy to change as memory chips are.

Oberon firmly points to 256bit bus, so does Flute and PCB leak, so I will consider this option to be much more likely.

Maybe they wanted to save die space, as this will result in smaller memory controller even if DDR4 + GDDR6 are on SOC. Also it will be slightly cheaper and few watts less.
 
Last edited:
xool

xool

Member
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
But probably the biggest reason is that PS4 (and Pro) handle the suspend/resume functionality through an ARM co-processor; ARM co-processors have DDR memory controllers, not GDDR, so Sony is limited to DDR memories there.
Click to expand...
This makes sense. Though I remember reading that Zen 2 could reach some really low clocks on low utilisation . something like 500MHz (but can't find the source now) .. I wonder if it'll bypass the need for an auxillary chip (probably not)
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
xool said:
MS moneyhat?

any hints or guesses (the buy SEGA thing is still in my mind)
Click to expand...

I was referring to whatever the Sony/Nintendo stuff was that Osiris (I think it was Osiris) was hinting at. But I've heard of some MS ones too. Dunno about them getting SEGA; the Polish studio and/or Bethesda ones have been ones I've heard a lot of though.

Though IMO a moneyhat is just something on a game-by-game basis, not when a full studio's purchased. I.e Rise of the Tomb Raider was a moneyhat. Street Fighter V was a moneyhat. And so on...

xool said:
This makes sense. Though I remember reading that Zen 2 could reach some really low clocks on low utilisation . something like 500MHz (but can't find the source now) .. I wonder if it'll bypass the need for an auxillary chip (probably not)
Click to expand...

Don't know a lot about Zen 2 capabilities when it comes to power modes, myself, but given PS5 and XSX will be using mobile versions of the chips (most likely), that'll already give them a lower TDP than the desktop variants.

So maybe a low-power mode isn't infeasible (I would think chips aimed at mobile products would need functionality similar to it built in and supported).

SlimySnake said:
those gta6 rumors are looking more accurate by the day.
Click to expand...

I guess...but it seems HIGHLY unlikely. GTA6 is such an established multiplatform series; there's zero way Sony or Microsoft could cover the costs in a deal with Rockstar to make up for lost sales on the rival platform (and ecosystem). Could see one of them getting favored marketing and exclusive DLC content at launch, however.
 
Last edited:
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
R600 said:
Tbh I tought of that obviously, but its a question how necessary are detailed target specs for system coming out in 2 years
Click to expand...
"Necessary" can't be quantified without context - ie. the word will be redefined in each individual situation.
But first, it's been standard practice - even in the more dysfunctional cases, we had access to detailed breakdown of target specs well ahead of devkit housing any real semblance of retail hardware.
And really, if you are in charge of tech for a launch title you need hard-data to plan your decisions on - not another party assumptions and estimates (you'll eventually generate your own anyway).

R600 said:
IMO there is little point in doing that
Click to expand...
Other than having higher peak bandwidth?
 
Last edited:
Agnostic2020

Agnostic2020

Member
Gamernyc78 said:
Somebody threw this up on reset in relation to ps5. Of course like everything else could be nothing 😁

"The recent leaks show the following specs which are most likely to be PS5

CPU: Zen2 8 cores @ 2.8 GHz
GPU: 52CUs@1.9GHz, 12.65 TFlops
POWER VR ray tracing
RAM: HBM2E 16GB + 8GB DDR4
SSD: 5~ 5.5 GB/s NVMe
Click to expand...
Lol that looks like unrealistic expectations
 
Amaranty

Amaranty

Member
DaGamez said:
Quick question, will anyone here really switch alliances because of a couple TF here or there? Say Sony bests Xbox by 25% even, given that the system design of Xbox seems more sound than last gen, do Xbox gamers really care? Same thing in reverse, I think Sony gamers are staying put regardless. I'm referring of course to the hard-core crowd that is entrenched to one side or the other already.
Click to expand...
I might build a new PC. It's probably given that new consoles will aim for native 4K. I don't think the difference between 1080p and 4K is big enough to sacrifice performance. I had a chance to play Destiny 2 at 60 fps and with a higher field of view. Much more enjoyable experience compared to the low frametate and tunnel vision version on the consoles.
 
Saberus

Saberus

Member
Gamernyc78 said:
Somebody threw this up on reset in relation to ps5. Of course like everything else could be nothing 😁

"The recent leaks show the following specs which are most likely to be PS5

CPU: Zen2 8 cores @ 2.8 GHz
GPU: 52CUs@1.9GHz, 12.65 TFlops
POWER VR ray tracing
RAM: HBM2E 16GB + 8GB DDR4
SSD: 5~ 5.5 GB/s NVMe
Click to expand...

This looks more like a Fanboy's wet dream than reality unfortunately
 
yurinka

yurinka

Member
Nickolaidas said:
Well, HipHopGamer strikes again. He says that Street Fighter 6 is going to be announced this year, and will have 2v2 and 3v3 modes.



Take it with a massive grain of salt, as always.
Click to expand...

SFV already has offline team battle matches (3vs3, each one of these 3 controlled by a separate player), and there is a new SFV online tournament mode in beta that features 1vs1, 2vs2 or 3vs3 teams and is very likely to be released next month. As he says, SFL already has 3vs3 battles. And SFL is the least favorite SFV event, people from FGC thinks that SF should be 1vs1. During 2020 we'll also have SFV in the Intel World Open, an eSport tournament tied to the Tokyo 2020 olympics, which is also 3vs3 (so 6 players) battles in SFV.

Basically what he heard is not about SFVI: it's upcoming or already existing SFV stuff.

Yoshinori Ono said a couple of months ago at BGS and EGX QA panels and in a post EGX interview with EG to "don't hold your breath about SFVI". He said they won't start developing it until at least a year or two from now (and this is if lucky), because they want to see the next gen consoles and games released to see what new stuff they offer and to design the next game from scratch around it. He also said that they plan to keep supporting SFV for a while before they move to SFVI, that SFV is only entering its 5th year (season), and that they supported SFIV during 8 years (he counted them as "seasons").

My theory:
According to Ono's words, sounds that they will keep supporting SFV until aprox. 2022/2023 and SFVI would be released in aprox. 2023.

PS5 seems it's going to be released on November 2020, that would be almost exactly 7 years after PS4 release, which was released almost exactly 7 years after PS3.

SFIV was released 2 years and 3 months after PS3 release. SFV was released almost exactly 7 years later, 2 years and 3 months after PS4 release. If SFVI gets released 7 years later, 2 years and 3 months after PS5 release then SFVI would be released in February 2023.

Some people think SFVI will be released in 2021 because they changed one of the rules of Capcom Cup 2020: its winner won't be qualified for Capcom Cup 2021, something that happened all previous years with the only exception of the year they released SFV. But hey, this doesn't mean a shit compared to Ono's word specially considering that they already changed a lot of other things related to Capcom Pro Tour 2020 and Capcom Cup 2020 qualification rules.

Now that I saw all this 3vs3 thing, I thought that maybe what they plan to do is to make Capcom Cup 2021 a 3vs3 team battle event, something that would create riots in the FGC because Capcom Cup is supposed to be to know who is the best player of the year. It would be ok to add a 3vs3 tournament to Capcom Cup and Capcom Pro Tour, but not replacing the 1vs1 tournaments.

demigod said:
Edge....repeat.....Sony will have the edge again and its a repeat of this gen?
Click to expand...
I predict now that PS5 will sell over 100M consoles and will dominate the generation again. Even if it has 7tf.

Xbox One X had more teraflops, and still flopped compared to PS sales. Seems that having an extra of horsepower compared to direct competition is a selling point but not the most important one. I think games library and price are the key ones. So if PS5 has a decent price, a great library with BC, great exclusives and continues getting a great support from the key third party AAA and indies nothing will stop it.

In addition to this, PS is the clear market leader of VR, game subscription and streaming. Just by making the logical next gen updates (seems they are working on them according to rumor, leaks, patents or official announcements) and not making huge mistakes like the ones they did with PS3 launch they will continue dominating these markets too even if it's just due to their existing library and userbase.

crazy buttocks on a train said:
General Ford’s skinner cage
Click to expand...
General Ford = shortest US presidency for any president who did not die in office
Skinner cage = known as Skinner box = SK box = X box

So this next gen Xbox will be the xbox with the shorter lifetime cycle. Xbox dead on arrival, MS doomed, they shut down the Xbox division and go 3rd party confirmed. And Zynga hires Phil Spencer.
 
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F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
R600 said:
Of course it isnt, but it gives them a headroom anyway. If PS5 is 16GB GDDR6 + 4GB DDR4, there is no reason to go for 16GB with mixed chips when they can go for 20GB for dozen more dollars (tops?)
Click to expand...
The reason would be if they designed their system around 16GB - which the same rumors 'confirming' 320bit bus state. And the alternative to that would be 256bit for a uniform arrangement - the tradeoffs are pretty clear here.
While nothing in the rumors may actually turn out to be real (although the mixed chips are actually in MS's own visualization of SXS, so slightly more credence to that than a guess) - cherry-picking individual pieces while discarding others to fit a narrative is just random noise - especially if the reasoning is 'because competition is rumored to do Y').
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
Gamernyc78 said:
Somebody threw this up on reset in relation to ps5. Of course like everything else could be nothing 😁

"The recent leaks show the following specs which are most likely to be PS5

CPU: Zen2 8 cores @ 2.8 GHz
GPU: 52CUs@1.9GHz, 12.65 TFlops
POWER VR ray tracing
RAM: HBM2E 16GB + 8GB DDR4
SSD: 5~ 5.5 GB/s NVMe
Click to expand...

science fiction
 
VFXVeteran

VFXVeteran

Banned
Snake29 said:
I'm ok if the console is 10TF in the end, because this is the minimum what we all expected from both next-gen consoles. I bet Sony will outperform the Sexbox in a lot of other areas.

See how both Pro and One X have a bad CPU both both GPU's are not the bottleneck in it. Imagine if both had a better CPU, even the Pro could have done more 4K or more 60fps games.

That's why this whole "Teraflop" thing for next-gen, won't be the most important thing anymore.
Click to expand...

If you increase the resolution, you will only affect the GPU so it would negate the CPU speed increase. And some of the games would still run slower than 60FPS with an speed increase in the CPU. But yea, the CPU was very weak.
 
PropellerEar

PropellerEar

Member
DaGamez said:
Quick question, will anyone here really switch alliances because of a couple TF here or there? Say Sony bests Xbox by 25% even, given that the system design of Xbox seems more sound than last gen, do Xbox gamers really care? Same thing in reverse, I think Sony gamers are staying put regardless. I'm referring of course to the hard-core crowd that is entrenched to one side or the other already.
Click to expand...
Atleast I won't.

Xbox would need to deliver shitload of games and something new like in the beginning of 360 era for me to have any thought of getting one.

PS5 is day 1, be it any TFlop number.
 
Gamernyc78

Gamernyc78

Banned
PropellerEar said:
Atleast I won't.

Xbox would need to deliver shitload of games and something new like in the beginning of 360 era for me to have any thought of getting one.

PS5 is day 1, be it any TFlop number.
Click to expand...

Based off the gems I've played ps5 could be 7tflops and I'd still buy it. No way I'm missing next Gen Gow, Ghost of T, Naughty Dog games, or most first parties.

But ppl getting real nervous with the tflop talk 😂
 
Last edited:
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
yurinka said:
SFV already has offline team battle matches (3vs3, each one of these 3 controlled by a separate player), and there is a new SFV online tournament mode in beta that features 1vs1, 2vs2 or 3vs3 teams and is very likely to be released next month. As he says, SFL already has 3vs3 battles. And SFL is the least favorite SFV event, people from FGC thinks that SF should be 1vs1. During 2020 we'll also have SFV in the Intel World Open, an eSport tournament tied to the Tokyo 2020 olympics, which is also 3vs3 (so 6 players) battles in SFV.

Basically what he heard is not about SFVI: it's upcoming or already existing SFV stuff.

Yoshinori Ono said a couple of months ago at BGS and EGX QA panels and in a post EGX interview with EG to "don't hold your breath about SFVI". He said they won't start developing it until at least a year or two from now (and this is if lucky), because they want to see the next gen consoles and games released to see what new stuff they offer and to design the next game from scratch around it. He also said that they plan to keep supporting SFV for a while before they move to SFVI, that SFV is only entering its 5th year (season), and that they supported SFIV during 8 years (he counted them as "seasons").

My theory:
According to Ono's words, sounds that they will keep supporting SFV until aprox. 2022/2023 and SFVI would be released in aprox. 2023.

PS5 seems it's going to be released on November 2020, that would be almost exactly 7 years after PS4 release, which was released almost exactly 7 years after PS3.

SFIV was released 2 years and 3 months after PS3 release. SFV was released almost exactly 7 years later, 2 years and 3 months after PS4 release. If SFVI gets released 7 years later, 2 years and 3 months after PS5 release then SFVI would be released in February 2023.

Some people think SFVI will be released in 2021 because they changed one of the rules of Capcom Cup 2020: its winner won't be qualified for Capcom Cup 2021, something that happened all previous years with the only exception of the year they released SFV. But hey, this doesn't mean a shit compared to Ono's word specially considering that they already changed a lot of other things related to Capcom Pro Tour 2020 and Capcom Cup 2020 qualification rules.

Now that I saw all this 3vs3 thing, I thought that maybe what they plan to do is to make Capcom Cup 2021 a 3vs3 team battle event, something that would create riots in the FGC because Capcom Cup is supposed to be to know who is the best player of the year. It would be ok to add a 3vs3 tournament to Capcom Cup and Capcom Pro Tour, but not replacing the 1vs1 tournaments.


I predict now that PS5 will sell over 100M consoles and will dominate the generation again. Even if it has 7tf.

Xbox One X had more teraflops, and still flopped compared to PS sales. Seems that having an extra of horsepower compared to direct competition is a selling point but not the most important one. I think games library and price are the key ones. So if PS5 has a decent price, a great library with BC, great exclusives and continues getting a great support from the key third party AAA and indies nothing will stop it.

In addition to this, PS is the clear market leader of VR, game subscription and streaming. Just by making the logical next gen updates (seems they are working on them according to rumor, leaks, patents or official announcements) and not making huge mistakes like the ones they did with PS3 launch they will continue dominating these markets too even if it's just due to their existing library and userbase.
Click to expand...

In any case, hopefully SF6 is not console-exclusive. We've seen too many problems with PS4s in tournament set-ups to make me trust Sony will resolve those conflicts with PS5. Conversely, I don't remember too many issues popping up with SFIV during the 360 years when that system was the tournament standard for the game.

Ideally they'd release it in arcades and just use arcade cabs as the standard (the SFV cabs support USB controllers anyway), but I figure Capcom will be dense as hell about it and make arcade LTTP next gen with the next SF. But yeah, they don't have an excuse to not make it console-multiplatform this time; they don't need funding from Sony or MS given they are making a lot of profit on MHW/RE remakes/DMC/SFV DLC etc. deals. And they don't really need a console-specific sponsor for CPT as they've managed some big pulls with the game in terms of sponsorships and promotional possibilities (the friggin' Olympics stuff is... kinda big ;) without having CPT tied to Sony.

In fact I'd say the past year has been the best yet for CPT in terms of events and sponsorship wasn't tied down to Sony for that. But I would be remiss to say I'm looking forward to PS5 as tournament standard for SF6 simply because of all the ridiculous USB controller conflicts and background download issues we saw with PS4 over the CPT, especially this year (even at Capcom Cup) :S
 
Kdad

Kdad

Member
DaGamez said:
Quick question, will anyone here really switch alliances because of a couple TF here or there? Say Sony bests Xbox by 25% even, given that the system design of Xbox seems more sound than last gen, do Xbox gamers really care? Same thing in reverse, I think Sony gamers are staying put regardless. I'm referring of course to the hard-core crowd that is entrenched to one side or the other already.
Click to expand...
I dont see the need to buy an Xbox, at all. So the power differences, if any, are irrelevant. All the games on that system will be on PC. So I'll continue to buy PlayStation and my Xbox money will go to further upgrades to my PC as necessary.
 
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Dabaus

Dabaus

Banned
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
I was referring to whatever the Sony/Nintendo stuff was that Osiris (I think it was Osiris) was hinting at. But I've heard of some MS ones too. Dunno about them getting SEGA; the Polish studio and/or Bethesda ones have been ones I've heard a lot of though.

Though IMO a moneyhat is just something on a game-by-game basis, not when a full studio's purchased. I.e Rise of the Tomb Raider was a moneyhat. Street Fighter V was a moneyhat. And so on...



Don't know a lot about Zen 2 capabilities when it comes to power modes, myself, but given PS5 and XSX will be using mobile versions of the chips (most likely), that'll already give them a lower TDP than the desktop variants.

So maybe a low-power mode isn't infeasible (I would think chips aimed at mobile products would need functionality similar to it built in and supported).



I guess...but it seems HIGHLY unlikely. GTA6 is such an established multiplatform series; there's zero way Sony or Microsoft could cover the costs in a deal with Rockstar to make up for lost sales on the rival platform (and ecosystem). Could see one of them getting favored marketing and exclusive DLC content at launch, however.
Click to expand...

Mind letting us know what youve heard? Which Polish and bethesda studios?
 
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