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[Kazekage1981]

Since the majority of insiders are continuously pointing towards a more powerful PS5 with some rumors going so far as 13TF territory, I can't see how we should assume 9.2TF.

Unless you want to keep expectations low to be amazed during the reveal!

Exactly, I care about my heart. I dont want Sony to break my achey breaky heart. I just dont think you'll understand.

 

[Niked]

I will join 18tflops hyper beast mode.

Sony can do it!

 

[R600]

In the beginning PS5 was rumored to be close to 12, then leak stated 9.25, but may be 10 because it is rumored that both are double digits, but now its close to 13-14 because of possible dual gpu.

There is too much fuckery going on with PS5 specs, you dont see leaks of Xfridges potential going above 12 TFLOPS, but you definitely dont see any leaks suggesting less than 12. It has been pretty consistent with Xfridge as far as leaks.

For PS5 It is best to assume 9.2 TFLOPS with an affordable price of $399-$449 and the sum of it parts makes up for any deficiencies to have a well balanced console. To be fair, it is 5 TFLOPS more than PS4 PRo 4 something TFLOPS. I just still find it shocking that if the 9.2 TFLOPS is true, you still have the same number of compute units (yes I know its RDNA instead of GCN). But whatever.

Perhaps the technology is not ready for a full beast mode for raw power, but that could possibly be achieved by PS5Pro but I still highly doubt it. With PS4Pro, and PS5 9.2 TFLOP, Cerny seems to be more focused on more with less, and if you can get the target visuals with bare minimum why is more 'brute force' necessary with extra cost?

Its like Sony plays more like a clever fox, versus Microsoft plays more like a wolf.

RDNA CUs are considerably larger then GCN ones so that should be taken into account. Much more cache as well, that is why it matches Turing TF v TF.

For example, 7.9TF 5700 beats 12.6TF Vega by 10%. Its limited by bandwidth afterwards, but PS5 should have ~500GB/s dedicated for GPU and that is 10% more then Navi XT has. 5700XT is a match for 2070S in games, even without VRS, so I doubt you could call it little.

 

[GermanZepp]

I

Go check out the The Sound Traveler on Youtube, he has a ton of videos with binaural audio and they sound amazing, be sure to wear headphones otherwise the effect doesn't work.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0tq0g5u2bo-TErZt7SJM6w

Here is a video from The Verge that explains binaural audio, again, wear headphones!






Enjoy!

I saw some japanese girls licking that plastic ear in pornhub. Aparently there is like binaural porn or something

 

[R600]

This definitely feels like Cerny's design philosophy, and it's a pretty smart one. Look at the wonders it's done for PS4. These wilder spec rumors for PS5 would be more credible if Kutaragi were still at Sony, but those days ended over a decade ago.

Also it's kind of funny to see all these wild power fantasies playing out for PS5, but not XSX. Partly that's because we simply know more about XSX, but even when we were in the dark on both systems relatively equally, the range of power fantasy was easily towards PS5.

And I'm gonna be fair here; that was also how it played out with XBO and PS4 during a lot of 2012 when spec rumors were going around for those systems. A lot of those were giving MS the edge, but MS had the unfortunate duty of the more damaging rumors coming out near the end of that year and into 2013, then getting confirmed at the reveal.

I don't think Sony has any really damaging rumors or features planned otherwise we'd be hearing about those by now (I could be wrong tho), but at this point it definitely feels like TF-wise PS5 is going to sit somewhere around 9.2-9.7 TF, and that's very good. You look back at all the rumors for a system launch last year, look at a lot of the departures (some of which came out of nowhere, like Shawn Layden), look at planning for an affordable and fast transition (aka $399; which they're still alluding to with things like "we want to make this the fastest adaptation yet"), look at how "that" leak was deleted almost as soon as it went up (and remains one of the only leaks where that's happened, if not the only one), even the more recent leaks still sticking with a 40CU design seemingly, and it all just starts to add up.

What's more wild to me is how some are thinking 9.2-9.7 is somehow a death blow; it really isn't. We're not going to see these systems maxed out at launch anyway, because it'll take time for devs to pour resources into development big enough to do so. You're still going to get some really impressive looking games from both sides, in fact you're going to get instances of some PS5 1st-party looking better than XSX 1st-party, and some XSX 1st-party looking better than PS5 1st-party. Across the board the systems in terms of 1st party will likely balance out in terms of awesome graphics.

For what is worth it, I said (back in June), 9+ TF of Navi with VRS/RT and more BW for graphics then PC chip would be my upper limit. It obviously is, if you are not building PC tower and with hefty price tag. That system, with state of the art SSD will cost and push console much further then either PS4 or Pro did at time of release.

 

[llien]

Wait are we memeing right now or are there genuinely people that believe 18TF to be a possibility? Is this some sort of Flat Earth believing stuff going on?

Or did I miss a memo from Mark Cerny where he came bock from the year 2025 with a GPU that could actually do 18 TF and not consume 400W?

Anyone believing anything close to 14-18TF will be DEVASTATED soon.
Just do the math, but when you do it don't forget power draw/heat when throwing around napkin math to achieve 18TF on theoretical perfect chips that have zero defective units which would NEVER work on a mass production product.

If we get anything around 10-12~ TFLOPs this year in a console that would be a huge win and comperatively better than what the PS4 offered in 2013, because the PS4 was only 1/3 !!!!!!!! of the power of the best GPU at that point. How come in 2020 people believe that a console is going to have twice the power of the best AMD GPU and 40% more power than the 1250$ RTX 2080 Ti.

And on top of all that you have to add dedicated ray tracing hardware. It produces heat/power aswell.

A voice of reason.

 

[R600]

For me weirdest part would be that cerny decided to double the CU count in mid gen ps4pro but he said you know what ? For next gen I m gonna keep the same CU . No need

That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me

Does 251mm² for Navi 10 vs 230mm² RX470 make sense to you? Navi 10 with 40CU is larger, compared to what PC equivalents of PS4 (212mm²) and PS4Pro (230mm²) had back when they were released.

On top of that, 7nm manufacturing is considerably more expensive then 28nm and 16nm (2x per wafer + yields + MUCH more expensive design).

Add to this AMD royality fee that will certainly be higher then back in 13 or 16' and you realize its not so little after all.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Does 251mm² for Navi 10 vs 230mm² RX470 make sense to you? Navi 10 with 40CU is larger, compared to what PC equivalents of PS4 (212mm²) and PS4Pro (230mm²) had back when they were released.

On top of that, 7nm manufacturing is considerably more expensive then 28nm and 16nm (2x per wafer + yields + MUCH more expensive design).

Add to this AMD royality fee that will certainly be higher then back in 13 or 16' and you realize its not so little after all.

That's going to be Sony' s responsibility (and possibly) AMDs to explain and market this. They are going to have a tough time doing this when Xfridge is staring right at their face with more compute units, *if* the rumored leaks are true

 

[ElCasual]

Well.....we already know how this "leak" ends.

 

[Darklor01]

I’m as hungry AF for proper info as anyone else, but man, some in here have such insane emotional tie-in to the FLOPS and such that it may be good to step back and breathe. We will not know the real story until official word anyway. The news waiting on is the next PS5 related Sony Event. What’s the point of anything else if we won’t know what’s true or not anyway.

 

[BattleScar]

People are actually delusional with this 18TF nonsense.

Agreed, 10.5 (13 GCN) is the sweetspot, anything above that is a bonus.

Can we stop this shit with the Flops.
Please.

 

[Fitzchiv]

I expect the Xbox to be that price and Sony will attempt to undercut this price even if its by just $50

That doesn't correlate with the assessment they set out to design the console at a defined sell out price. Unless you think they knew MS would pitch for $499 and set out from the start to be $50 cheaper.

Reality is both businesses will have a sell out target price defined and refined as the product is designed, and there'll be some flex in the margin they make which could allow adjustment, but $50 is quite a lot of margin to sacrifice - then again, it's enough money to attract a sale, so basic price elasticity would likely suggest it would pay off.

I doubt there'll be any last minute pricing changes based on each others announcement unless one goes VERY early compared to the others schedule.

 

[ThaMonkeyClaw]

People are actually delusional with this 18TF nonsense.


Can we stop this shit with the Flops.
Please.

What about these bad boys though?

Spoiler: The Flops

 

[gamechanger87]

Not true at all pal, most ms devkits since the 360 start with top of the line Nvidia cards in and gradually get closer to actual hardware when the CPUs/GPUs or Apus are ready.

Not a problem when you mandate direct x.

Sony normally start weaker and build up but ms go balls to the walls. Two different approaches to the same problem eg lack of actual hardware.

Also this.

Lol ok, you move those goalposts lad.

From what I recall, the XBX dev kit was 10% higher and this was tied to a deactivation of 4 CUs to increase yield versus the 44 in the dev kit. Developers were targeting the 6TF not the 6.6TF.

The durango dev kit from SuperDae was right on point.

Unless I'm wrong, the dev kits typically use top of the line parts that can essentially mirror the targeted performance of the final spec target until final hardware is ready.

Are you going to tell me that the PS5 dev kit is currently 18TF?

 

[BattleScar]

That's going to be Sony' s responsibility (and possibly) AMDs to explain and market this. They are going to have a tough time doing this when Xfridge is staring right at their face with more compute units, *if* the rumored leaks are true

It's not complicated. Microsoft simply will have paid more for their APU if it's bigger. Exactly what would Sony have to explain?

 

[saintjules]

What about these bad boys though?

Spoiler: The Flops

2 Tflops...Just to enough to handle the base PS4. Sold.

 

[Kazekage1981]

It's not complicated. Microsoft simply will have paid more for their APU if it's bigger. Exactly what would Sony have to explain?

That's its most super dooper most powerful amazing console ever built on the planet. Or does sony just doesn't give a shit? Cause they didnt for Ps4pro. *Edit: most*

 

[R600]

Its also important to keep in mind that the smaller the chip, the better the yields. Not only will yield % be better, you will get more chips per wafer duo to size of actual chip as well.

For example :

~320mm² chip (36CU) should yield about 35-40% more chips per wafer compared to 390mm² (56CU).

This becomes an issue if you do not have 2nd SKU and chip much smaller that will make bulk of your sales (say 60%). For PS5 you want to make chip big enough to fit tech required for good generation jump, but also one where you will not suffer stock shortages and high prices.

 

[Reindeer]

Can we stop this shit with the Flops.
Please.

No

 

[jackets with pockets]

 

[Mass Shift]

Interesting, there does appear to be a growing consensus of individuals who are starting sound like the Xbox fan base and their refusal to accept the truth about Durango back in 2013.

The thing is the PS5 is nowhere near the performance deficiencies of Durango.

 

[devilNprada]

Add to this AMD royality fee that will certainly be higher then back in 13 or 16' and you realize its not so little after all.

Where do you get this?

 

[R600]

Where do you get this?

I am assuming AMD will not be selling Navi/Zen2 IP in 2020 as cheap as they did with GCN/Jag back in 2013 or 2016.

They are forecasted for record year this year and I dont see them selling it for peanuts.

 

[Reindeer]

Where do you get this?

"Tales from my ass", you haven't heard of that? It's quite popular around here.

 

[chemical boy]

I already said I will get the Xbox avatar for a year if PS5 is less powerful than XBOX SX. PS5 It will be about 12-13 RDNA tflops.

I do not have any doubt.

 

[Reindeer]

I already said I will get the Xbox avatar for a year if PS5 is less powerful than XBOX SX. PS5 It will be about 12-13 RDNA tflops.

I do not have any doubt.

That doesn't sound like a big loss on your part, why don't you rather buy an Xbox if you lose that one? At least make it interesting.

 

[PocoJoe]

They planned to have 2x CELL in ps3.

Now Cerny have finally manifested the Japanese samurai spirit and made it happen:

Dual APU with total of 18 TFLOPS raw Japanese Power that will destroy the weak american spirit of hamburgers and starbucks of a xbox.

Sony will ride the tide to ultimate win, selling over 130m of PS5.

I have spoken.

 

[Investor9872]

Not impossible but a stupid move for the masses. Sony already learned from the PS3 era and won't commit tht mistake again, let's use common sense. Only two options exist either sell for 500 and under or come out with two skus one high end and one affordable.

Have two SKUs is not an attractive choice, especially if you want your to show off the best games for your new, powerful system!

 

[Investor9872]

Man 13TF would not be good

13TF WOULD BE INCREDIBLE

And definitely not at $399. I would rather have 10.5TF at a lower entry point than that at what 13TF would cost.

 

[ManaByte]

They planned to have 2x CELL in ps3.

Where is this coming from?

 

[01011001]

And definitely not at $399. I would rather have 10.5TF at a lower entry point than that at what 13TF would cost.

you have to think long term tho. sure it will be expensive at first, but not only will the price go down officially and through second hand sellers, it will also benefit the consoles long term when it comes to performance.

 

[chemical boy]

That doesn't sound like a big loss on your part, why don't you rather buy an Xbox if you lose that one? At least make it interesting.

Ok, if XBox SX is more powerful than PS5, I buy the Xbox SX on day 1.

 

[01011001]

Where is this coming from?

some very "intelligent" folks at Sony thought they could use a second Cell as a GPU... meanwhile that resulted in games literally looking like PS2 games running at 1080p.
so all the first party devs told them that that's a dumb idea and they made a deal with Nvidia

 

[Reindeer]

Interesting, there does appear to be a growing consensus of individuals who are starting sound like the Xbox fan base and their refusal to accept the truth about Durango back in 2013.

The thing is the PS5 is nowhere near the performance deficiencies of Durango.

Well, there weren't so many insiders claiming Xbox One to be on par with PS4 back then.

 

[Bryank75]

That doesn't sound like a big loss on your part, why don't you rather buy an Xbox if you lose that one? At least make it interesting.

That's going way too far... absolute sadism!

 

[ethomaz]

Where is this coming from?

There is a dev story about Sony wanted (in project time) use Cell for both CPU and GPU on PS3... the Cell didn't turn out what they wanted so they have to use the Plan B for GPU (nVidia RSX was made).

 

[BattleScar]

That's its most super dooper most powerful amazing console ever built on the planet. Or does sony just doesn't give a shit? Cause they didnt for Ps4pro. *Edit: most*

??????
The PS4 Pro was more than twice as fast as the PS4 and released at the same price of $399. They specially engineered double rate FP16 into the GPU; backporting a Vega feature to Polaris. How could anyone say they weren't trying? It's a well engineered product.
Yes it's weaker than the Xbox One X, but that device released a year later at a higher price. If it wasn't faster, it would have been shambolic from Microsoft.

Fucking console wars are so dumb.

 

[ManaByte]

some very "intelligent" folks at Sony thought they could use a second Cell as a GPU... meanwhile that resulted in games literally looking like PS2 games running at 1080p.
so all the first party devs told them that that's a dumb idea and they made a deal with Nvidia

There is a dev story about Sony wanted (in project time) use Cell for both CPU and GPU on PS3... the Cell didn't turn out what they wanted so they have to use the Plan B for GPU (nVidia RSX was made).

Ooooh. PS3. I thought he was saying Cell in PS5 and curious where that came from.

 

[R600]

??????
The PS4 Pro was more than twice as fast as the PS4 and released at the same price of $399. They specially engineered double rate FP16 into the GPU; backporting a Vega feature to Polaris. How could anyone say they weren't trying? It's a well engineered product.
Yes it's weaker than the Xbox One X, but that device released a year later at a higher price. If it wasn't faster, it would have been shambolic from Microsoft.

Fucking console wars are so dumb.

1 year later on same tech and same node, so not like Sony couldnt do it year earlier IMO.

Its not that it was bad, it was "4K extension" of PS4, but that BW was abysmal. 23% more BW and 110% more TF, it would be much stronger console with 50GB/s more.

 

[Niked]

Ok, if XBox SX is more powerful than PS5, I buy the Xbox SX on day 1.

 

[demigod]

Well.....we already know how this "leak" ends.

It would be a good idea if you linked what you're talking about.

 

[Gamernyc78]

Have two SKUs is not an attractive choice, especially if you want your to show off the best games for your new, powerful system!

And I don't agree with it, I'm just stating the two options.

 

[Kusarigama]

How crazy would it be if Sony put a newer 7nm Cell processor to deal with PS3 BC and also to deal with other auxiliary background processes for other things on PS5. How much would this increase the manufacturing cost of PS5?

 

[Agnostic2020]

How crazy would it be if Sony put a newer 7nm Cell processor to deal with PS3 BC and also to deal with other auxiliary background processes for other things on PS5. How much would this increase the manufacturing cost of PS5?

Didn’t they stop manufacturing it long time ago ?

 

[DJ12]

It would be a good idea if you linked what you're talking about.

I think that was the 4chan leak with several games such as Legendz.

 

[onQ123]

We are really months away from the release of the PS5 without solid information about the retail specs lol

 

[Agnostic2020]

We are really months away from the release of the PS5 without solid information about the retail specs lol

I m sure one of the leaks is legit but god knows which one . Would be fun to go over them once specs are revealed

 

[Investor9872]

you have to think long term tho. sure it will be expensive at first, but not only will the price go down officially and through second hand sellers, it will also benefit the consoles long term when it comes to performance.

"Long term" is relative, because you can release a Pro version 3 years down the line when you have first-rate quality games pouring in. At a cheaper debut $399 price point, Sony would be able to achieve that "we want fast adoption rate for our new system" statement. And I'm willing to bet that a lot of these early adopters will be willing to purchase the Pro version as well 3 years from the debut when newer and more powerful, more efficient CPU and GPU chipsets become available.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

The Oberon chip is the one most grounded in reality

 

[Niked]

"Long term" is relative, because you can release a Pro version 3 years down the line when you have first-rate quality games pouring in. At a cheaper debut $399 price point, Sony would be able to achieve that "we want fast adoption rate for our new system" statement. And I'm willing to bet that a lot of these early adopters will be willing to purchase the Pro version as well 3 years from the debut when newer and more powerful, more efficient CPU and GPU chipsets become available.

Exactly but that goes totaly against their statement that PS5 will be aimed to be a premium console... So which is it? Both..? If both, Sony has to make a 100-200$ loss