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[Agnostic2020]

No way in hell would a 8-9TF GPU get you within 10% performance of a 12TF one. Who conflated the two things?

if there was a 3 TF power advantage MS would be screaming from the mountains "the most powerful next gen console ever in 2020" cause no amount of upclock would change that. but they know they are very close and gpu upclocks on each side can give power advantage so they stopped focusing on that type of talk.(even though i believe XSX will be slightly ahead). their difference will be around 10%. thats why both will not focus on GPU as up clocks could change outcome and render that tactic useless

 

[FranXico]

I remember how happy they were for Sony to have the Life of a Black Tiger, which is a shitty indie that no one really gave it a thought

Hey I remember that game. Sony was the laughing stock of the press for promoting it in their blog. That was the embarrassing part.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

No, 9tf would not be 10%, more like 30-40% (talking raw tf performance alone, not anything else of course).

But as for slogans... that’s all marketing bullshit regardless. “Fastest most powerful” is something I have an issue with, because they can still use it even if PS5 comes out twice as powerful. Because it’s just the fastest most powerful..... Xbox.

Likewise I bloody hate the Pro marketing as well, because it’s still marketed as this 4k machine, when it barely hits that target. That’s ok, that’s all fine, but when you market games like RDR2 and say “4k 4k 4k!” In the same advert... it’s again bullshit.

Both MS and Sony are guilty of this (though Sony a tad more). Nintendo oddly don’t seem to do this, but then they are in their own classroom and playing by their own rules.

So it’s usually best to ignore marketing bollocks, it’s there purely to get as many people on board as possible, regardless of if it’s twisting reality or not.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I was hired as one of the private dancers for a party at Mark Cerny's house. As I was scooping up the dollar bills from the floor, I noticed some sheets of paper under the desk.

I pulled them out and noticed it was a piece of mail sent to Mark. It was from his boss. It demanded that he increase the PS5 from 8TF to 14TF. So, it was 8TF at one point.

My g-string got caught on the handle of a drawer as I was getting up, and it opened in front of me. Inside the drawer was a PS5 prototype. It looked exactly like the new Xbox. It was a tower shape, but instead of just being a rectangle, it was in the shape of a 5.

Mark immediately yelled at me and demanded that I leave. I was in a state of disbelief and walked straight into a filing cabinet. It crashed to the ground and popped open. One of the sheets of paper flew out and I could make out some text on it. It said 799.99 US dollars.

 

[pasterpl]

My theory is that if XSEX is 2X of XBX = 12TFLOPS, Sony could do the same thing with PS5 (2x PS4 Pro) which would give it 8.4TFlops, around initial rumours. I think after MS reveal Sony got worried and started to overclock their machine (2GHZ) to reach over 9, maybe even close to 10 TFlops, still good result, and then you should think about what developers can do with the power that is 2x PS4Pro + SSD.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I got over 14 TF and it means nothing in PC world. But there are so many console warriors who think, "PC needs to catch up with gpu and ssd". That shit is pure cringe

I've spent $3300 on my PC less than a year ago, and I'm more than sure both consoles will shit on it. Just deal with it.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

My theory is that if XSEX is 2X of XBX = 12TFLOPS, Sony could do the same thing with PS5 (2x PS4 Pro) which would give it 8.4TFlops, around initial rumours. I think after MS reveal Sony got worried and started to overclock their machine (2GHZ) to reach over 9, maybe even close to 10 TFlops, still good result, and then you should think about what developers can do with the power that is 2x PS4Pro + SSD.

You’re not getting 2ghz. Anybody who knows even a tiny bit will tell you as such.

As for what Sony can do with 2x PS4 Pro, they could do amazing things with 2x PS4 standard, so yeah. Theres going to be some impressive things coming out. Very exciting times.

 

[Gudji]

My theory is that if XSEX is 2X of XBX = 12TFLOPS, Sony could do the same thing with PS5 (2x PS4 Pro) which would give it 8.4TFlops, around initial rumours. I think after MS reveal Sony got worried and started to overclock their machine (2GHZ) to reach over 9, maybe even close to 10 TFlops, still good result, and then you should think about what developers can do with the power that is 2x PS4Pro + SSD.

Sony planned to release PS5 in holiday 2019. Those plans were changed back in 2017 or early 2018 according to Matt from ERA, they've had two years to redesign the chip.
This would also be in line with the xbox messaging change from E3 2018 to E3 2019.
Forget about a 8-9 TF machine, it ain't happening, both will be close and perform similar, both will have advantages and disavantages when compared to each other.

 

[FranXico]

Forget about a 8-9 TF machine, it ain't happening

How does that line up with the Github leaks though? That test data would have to very outdated, if the APU was redesigned in the meantime, all sorts of tests would have to be re-done.

 

[Agnostic2020]

My theory is that if XSEX is 2X of XBX = 12TFLOPS, Sony could do the same thing with PS5 (2x PS4 Pro) which would give it 8.4TFlops, around initial rumours. I think after MS reveal Sony got worried and started to overclock their machine (2GHZ) to reach over 9, maybe even close to 10 TFlops, still good result, and then you should think about what developers can do with the power that is 2x PS4Pro + SSD.

jason shrier says they almost identical power wise and i take his words over most. If you go and check the rumors in 2012 and 2013 about X1 and PS4 , he was the only one who was correct everytime he spoke . this scenario of sony being caught of guard(despite seeing AMD road map for GPU) only exist if you listen to too much xbox fanboy related news as thats their wet dream lol doesnt mean its real.

 

[-kb-]

How does that line up with the Github leaks though? That test data would have to very outdated, if the APU was redesigned in the meantime, all sorts of tests would have to be re-done.

The tests would either have to be outdated, or not be of the PS5 console APU. The second sounds possible to me, its 100% related to the PS5 but what it actually is, is something we don't know.

 

[Agnostic2020]

How does that line up with the Github leaks though? That test data would have to very outdated, if the APU was redesigned in the meantime, all sorts of tests would have to be re-done.

PS5 chip is still under revisions as noticed by apisak and E side stepping . so sony doesnt wanna lose time . they are testing BC boost mode with the chip they had for first revision of devkits as they only need 36 CU for BC regression test.

 

[darkinstinct]

if there was a 3 TF power advantage MS would be screaming from the mountains "the most powerful next gen console ever in 2020" cause no amount of upclock would change that. but they know they are very close and gpu upclocks on each side can give power advantage so they stopped focusing on that type of talk.(even though i believe XSX will be slightly ahead). their difference will be around 10%. thats why both will not focus on GPU as up clocks could change outcome and render that tactic useless

You can't scream what you don't know. It's not only bad practice (they have a business relationship with Sony), it would come off as the bitchy company that they don't want to be, because it doesn't help. Microsoft has to do three things. They need to nail performance and not be behind PS5. They need to nail price and not be behind PS5. And they need to nail games and not be behind PS5. And gloating about a single one of them doesn't help them. They need a complete package. Plus they don't even have to do it: People will do it for them if it happens.

 

[Agnostic2020]

You can't scream what you don't know. It's not only bad practice (they have a business relationship with Sony), it would come off as the bitchy company that they don't want to be, because it doesn't help. Microsoft has to do three things. They need to nail performance and not be behind PS5. They need to nail price and not be behind PS5. And they need to nail games and not be behind PS5. And gloating about a single one of them doesn't help them. They need a complete package. Plus they don't even have to do it: People will do it for them if it happens.

bro like really? they did exactly that with ps4 pro 3 months before PS4 pro was even announced . they said x1x will be the most powerful console when it launches in 2017 at e3 2016 when pro was not even announced yet.

why would it bother you if they are close?

 

[darkinstinct]

jason shrier says they almost identical power wise and i take his words over most. If you go and check the rumors in 2012 and 2013 about X1 and PS4 , he was the only one who was correct everytime he spoke . this scenario of sony being caught of guard(despite seeing AMD road map for GPU) only exist if you listen to too much xbox fanboy related news as thats their wet dream lol doesnt mean its real.

His name is Schreier. Not Shrier. Not Schrier. Not Shreier. Just. Schreier.

 

[darkinstinct]

bro like really? they did exactly that with ps4 pro 3 months before PS4 pro was even announced . theys aid x1x will be the most powerful console when it launches in 2017 at e3 2016.

why would it bother you if they are close?

Because I have no interest in buying one of each if they are basically identical twins with a different UI. Nobody should want that.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Because I have no interest in buying one of each if they are basically identical twins with a different UI. Nobody should want that.

thats what you are getting whether u like it or not. just get xbox and be happy simple

 

[Gudji]

How does that line up with the Github leaks though? That test data would have to very outdated, if the APU was redesigned in the meantime, all sorts of tests would have to be re-done.

The github leaks entries start in 2017, we don't know when they stopped doing tests. Maybe they continued testing with the current chip for BC purposes while working on a chip redesign, there's a lot of context missing. Like I said yesterday, those tests are for oberon B0 and Oberon is now at E0 stepping, it was redesigned at least 3 more times.

Don't forget Matt dismissed the github leak by saying "glad we're past thinking the github leak is confirmation of anything".
He's also been saying for months that both are close and there won't be a big difference between the two, so expect in the worst case scenario a PS5 with 10.24 TF and XSX with 12 TF.

Just for reference:

PS4 VS XBO = 50% difference
PS4 PRO vs XBOX X = 30% difference
PS5 (10.24 TF) vs XSX (12 TF) = 15% difference

 

[darkinstinct]

thats what you are getting whether u like it or not. just get xbox and be happy simple

No, disappointing console hardware just means I get a PC and use xCloud and PS Now.

 

[mejin]

Sony planned to release PS5 in holiday 2019. Those plans were changed back in 2017 or early 2018 according to Matt from ERA, they've had two years to redesign the chip.
This would also be in line with the xbox messaging change from E3 2018 to E3 2019.
Forget about a 8-9 TF machine, it ain't happening, both will be close and perform similar, both will have advantages and disavantages when compared to each other.

I expect the advantages of PS5 over another Xbox should be games related thanks to VR.

 

[Agnostic2020]

No, disappointing console hardware just means I get a PC and use xCloud and PS Now.

you are contradicting yourself .

you will buy both if:
XSX 12 TF, PS5 9TF

you wont buy either if :
XSX12 TF, ps5 11-13 TF

lol ok .

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Because I have no interest in buying one of each if they are basically identical twins with a different UI. Nobody should want that.

That’s EXACTLY what you should want. If console A is twice as fast as console B, you will have a situation where either:

A) One console will get really good looking titles but they are not possible on the other.

B) One console will likely be far cheaper and will gain mass adoption and so games will be made for this lower end model while being ported up.

C) A complete mixed bag of no quality and no real substance.

What you WANT is for third parties to essentially have it easy in porting from console A to console B, and then the first parties take advantage of their hardware however they can. Everybody gets the best experience, everybody wins, and you essentially pick the side you want or like (where your friends are, what ui you like etc).

To have one console dominate would mean little to no competition, no need or desire to improve, and nothing to be competitive about for us as consumers.

Wanting one console to be much better is extremely narrow minded and NOT what you want.

 

[FranXico]

The github leaks entries start in 2017, we don't know when they stopped doing tests. Maybe they continued testing with the current chip for BC purposes while working on a chip redesign, there's a lot of context missing. Like I said yesterday, those tests are for oberon B0 and Oberon is now at E0 stepping, it was redesigned at least 3 more times.

Don't forget Matt dismissed the github leak by saying "glad we're past thinking the github leak is confirmation of anything".
He's also been saying for months that both are close and there won't be a big difference between the two, so expect in the worst case scenario a PS5 with 10.24 TF and XSX with 12 TF.

Just for reference:

PS4 VS XBO = 50% difference
PS4 PRO vs XBOX X = 30% difference
PS5 (10.24 TF) vs XSX (12 TF) = 15% difference

First time I heard of the log being that old. Thanks for explaining that better.

 

[DrDamn]

Because I have no interest in buying one of each if they are basically identical twins with a different UI. Nobody should want that.

Different UI, different services, different games and different additional features to make the platforms distinct. Those are the things that really distinguish the two. Being very close in power is much better for developers.

 

[FranXico]

Different UI, different services, different games and different additional features to make the platforms distinct. Those are the things that really distinguish the two. Being very close in power is much better for developers.

Product differentiation goes far beyond having the bigger stick. Indeed.

 

[Sussoloc]

I expect the advantages of PS5 over another Xbox should be games related thanks to VR.

I don't think VR is a big game changer. Not even 5% of the PS4 owners got it and it's not really expensive since years.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Different UI, different services, different games and different additional features to make the platforms distinct. Those are the things that really distinguish the two. Being very close in power is much better for developers.

Best case scenario, so the games would do the marketing, not the 'monster'.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[sonomamashine]

I've spent $3300 on my PC less than a year ago, and I'm more than sure both consoles will shit on it. Just deal with it.

It depends on what region you'r from & how much you paid for them, whats your 3300$ PC specs ?

 

[Neo Blaster]

It’s true. Let’s be honest here, if XSX doesn’t outperform PS5 than Xbox has failed. I don’t think they will mess this up though, it’s not Don Mattrick’s ship anymore.

What would that accomplish to MS? X being more powerful than Pro meant nothing without the games properly using it.

 

[Gudji]

It’s true. Let’s be honest here, if XSX doesn’t outperform PS5 than Xbox has failed. I don’t think they will mess this up though, it’s not Don Mattrick’s ship anymore.

It's never going to be a huge difference if they have similar BOMs. PS5 450-490; XSX - 460-520 BOM.
You'd need a big advantage on performance for that to make a difference on sales, so not happening.
It's going to be about games, that's where xbox needs to bring it, raise quality of games is what they need.

 

[Moridianae]

As far as pre-orders are concerned, I wouldn't expect them to go up until May or June.

In my GameStop days, console reservations didn't go up until after prices and official dates were revealed, usually the day after that announcement. They wait for allocation numbers per store before they open it up--stores reserve what they are allowed and that's it. It closed unless we received more allocation later in the day or next.

My store was able to reserve 52 PS4s and 25 Xbox One's(the latter was lower because GameStop didnt like their initial Used games stance and tried to bully them).

 

[sonomamashine]

What would that accomplish to MS? X being more powerful than Pro meant nothing without the games properly using it.

Public Opinion.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[DrDamn]

It’s true. Let’s be honest here, if XSX doesn’t outperform PS5 than Xbox has failed. I don’t think they will mess this up though, it’s not Don Mattrick’s ship anymore.

I don't think that's true anymore. They have good service differentiation, they've invested well in exclusive game diversity, quality and volume. They have good distinction beyond a straight up power comparison. Obviously they'd like to have a power advantage, but it's not the must have it was for the mid-gen refreshes because they have a lot more to back up their systems with now.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Public Opinion.

Regarding public opinion, quality games trump power anytime, just look at console history. And I know, PS4 was an exception.

 

[Captain Hero]

Respect to all of the guys here for sharing opinions and predictions through out all of these pages but I cant see
the need for a powerful console and when I say powerful I mean 11TF and above .. I mean if a console with 6 & 4 TF can do just fantastic in terms of quality and all that depends on the talented studios .. I mean just look at Death Stranding
don't look with your hate or likeness but with your eyes this game runs on PS4 and Pro and still look gorgeous and with that just imagine what next console can do ! ..

So don't raise your expectation too high and be realistic in a way that won't effect your gaming experience ..

Of course, everyone has the right to own whatever he/she wants ..

 

[liviopangt]

First time commenting on here and what better way to comment then to comment about blueisviolet. That MF which im sure hes lurking thru all the forums tries to use any info without any context and trace it to PS5. And when you confront him about it on twitter, he deletes or blocks you. The fool thinks base xbox has RT cores. He thinks XSX (AMD SOC) has Tensor RT cores and a bunch more asinine posts. Hes some shill from Indonesia that thinks he can manipulate wordings from articles for the sake of tweets. Anything he posts his fictional so i wouldnt use him as a reference.

and a megaomaniac, the data he has are 2 years old and a crazy fanboy xbox hikikomori

 

[Rim]

You guys are too focused on power. How many times did Xbox X won an NPD since release?

Spoiler

0

Price and games will always be more important than power.

 

[joe_zazen]

two different apus at launch means twice the r&d and twice the headaches with dev tools. It is a nice mysyery as to whether it will pay off for MS.

my guess is that xsx is like the x1x, a console whose sole purpose is to give ms the power crown and DF wins. But the vast majority of owners will be of the $399 xss not the $599 xsx.

I think this will move consoles to the “must have maximum console” and “i am cheap guy crowds”. They risk alienating middle of the road types. Maybe there is, in fact, three models.

 

[JAMMA]

.

 

[Rim]

Spoiler alert, Most first party games blow. Cinematic garbage.

cool

 

[Neo Blaster]

I think it would be healthy for everyone to drop the wet dream that the PS5 and XSX will be equal.

Looks like you already chose to believe GitHub leaks are fact even though everyone else is saying they are practically equal. Ok, you're entitled to that.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Spoiler alert, Most first party games blow. Cinematic garbage.

Aaand that's all I needed to read, I rest my case.

 

[JAMMA]

This forum and moderation is bias in favor of Sony Playstation fans ***at all times***. This IS SonyGAF.

If you’re not a Sony fanboy, do yourself a favor and enjoy gaming talk elsewhere where it’s not skewed by pseudo moderation. NeoGAF IS unfortunately a Playstation fanboy forum and you will be negatively targeted if you enjoy Xbox. You WILL be attacked by PS fanboys and PS fanboy moderation.

I hope that everyone can find a new place besides here where they can enjoy gaming talk or discussions in peace without being wrongly and negatively targeted if they’re not a PS fanboy.

I feel sorry for all of you that unfortunately found their way to this place, but sadly it is simply the way that it is here.

Get out now while you still can, otherwise I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Gudji]

Looks like you already chose to believe GitHub leaks are fact even though everyone else is saying they are practically equal. Ok, you're entitled to that.

He's in for a rude awakening. They'll be within 15% of each other at max, which is nothing.

 

[JAMMA]

This forum and moderation is bias in favor of Sony Playstation fans ***at all times***. This IS SonyGAF.

If you’re not a Sony fanboy, do yourself a favor and enjoy gaming talk elsewhere where it’s not skewed by pseudo moderation. NeoGAF IS unfortunately a Playstation fanboy forum and you will be negatively targeted if you enjoy Xbox. You WILL be attacked by PS fanboys and PS fanboy moderation.

I hope that everyone can find a new place besides here where they can enjoy gaming talk or discussions in peace without being wrongly and negatively targeted if they’re not a PS fanboy.

I feel sorry for all of you that unfortunately found their way to this place, but sadly it is simply the way that it is here.

Get out now while you still can, otherwise I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[Gudji]

Incorrect, that extra 15% is considered huge in Japan.

Japan is PC and Nintendo world, even Sony has trouble selling consoles there compared to other countries.
Xbox is dead on arrival, just like all the previous xbox consoles.

Telling:

Unless your ofc joking and I missed the joke.

 

[Fdkenzo]

The PS5 will be a powerful console, as will the Xbox. The specifications will be almost similar, with small differences, do not believe all kinds of rumors without any real basis (anyone can be an insider these days). Do not be surprised if the new consoles will be stronger than 11-12TF RDNA, not CGN!!!
I bet on the end of March or the beginning of April for the PS5 specifications, with design and price in June after E3.
And for the people who think we won't see a huge jump in the graphics, I announce that they are wrong.
Remember when the first trailer for The Order came out, everyone was saying that it's CGI and that something like this is not possible on the console.