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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

it_wasn't_me

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Not in 24 hours. They probably knew for a pretty long time. There is some pretty smart people working for both companys and when SDKs get sent out you can guarantee that the other side pretty much knew what you are doing.

MS knew about Sonys boosting. They KNEW weeks before the actual announcement and they told DF multiple times that their clocks where "locked" since they KNEW Sony would present PS5 in a couple of weeks with 10,28 PEAK tflops and they could say the Xbox has 12.15 SUSTAINED tflop.
Of course they knew the about Sony's GDC presentation because if was planned regularly.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Again. Slowly. PS4 was designed with 4GB RAM at first. And that's not what i'm saying. That's what Yoshida said. And it was confirmed by Penello, that Microsoft also thought, that Sony will go with 4GB RAM. Yup. I's possible, that Microsoft had info on first machine and didn't know what's Sony changing after that.

But of course, you haven't addressed my whole point, which was "One company have general idea, what you are doing with your console." and you are just spouting shit about "tiresome Xbox fans." So if you want to do that, by all means go for it.

Yup, it is possible, that Sony thought, they are the only company on the market, that can push RDNA to over 2GHz and by that save some cost, because of smaller chip. It is also possible, that they overclocked it after they found out what is Microsoft doing and it is also possible, that RDNA 2 solved all problems with high frequencies. Nobody know for sure. But arguing in way "surely is planned by Cerny" is most "fanboyish" thing to say. Just blindly believe everything he says because he is an architect of your favourite console

But if you are not willing to have civilised discussion and you want to just attack everybody who dares to question what Cerny is saying, then we have nothing to talk about.
Of course both companies had some general idea, but that's that - some general idea. But that doesn't mean some things were made in "last minute"

You = Nobody knows for sure

How you can claim "nobody knows for sure" yet you LITERALLY doing the opposite pushing the claim "Sony did it last minute" as a fact, yet you accusing my claim as something fanboyish. But my claim some weight because like i said : If cooling solution is patented, than that patent needs to get some certifications, but before certifications it needs to be tested and that can last for months or years an in addition, you need further to test cooling how much frequency can handle etc. These tests are not A "LAST MINUTE THING"

Yes, you, Xbox fans are damn tiresome. Your post is full of hypocrisy! Damn it, really hope that in next 6 years PS5 will demolish XSX in sales just because of these posts.
 
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Sinthor

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It’s clear from Cerny’s presentation that the PS5 cannot sustain both max clock speeds for the cpu and gpu. Most games will run at 2GHz glu clock speeds. Those games that do not, will have the cpu transfer power to the gpu such that it can hit 2.23 GHz
Assumption + Unfounded speculation + Wild-assed fanboy guess = This post. . Wow! That was amazing!
 

ZywyPL

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PS5 Pro is an easy guess of 72CU butterfly chiplet capable of up to 21TF. They wanna sell those TV's.
If anything, Pro will come with 18CU at ~3GHz to utilize the CU workload even more, and a 1650MB 11GB/s SSD. I can already see the headlines - "worlds's fastest gaming console just became even faster!" ;)
 

markusfenix75

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Of course both companies had some general idea, but that's that - some general idea. But that doesn't mean some things were made in "last minute"

You = Nobody knows for sure

How you can claim "nobody knows for sure" yet you LITERALLY doing the opposite pushing the claim "Sony did it last minute" as a fact, yet you accusing my claim as something fanboyish, which my claim some weight because like i said : If cooling solution is patented, than that patent needs to get some certifications, but before certifications it needs to be tested and that can last for months or years an in addition, you need further to test cooling how much frequency can handle etc. These tests are not A "LAST MINUTE THING"

Yes, you, Xbox fans are damn tiresome. Your post is full of hypocrisy!
Okay. Where I pushed narrative that Sony did it in last minute? I always talked about it as possibility and surely i wasn't implying, that they saw Xbox article and upped the frequencies. But it's nice to see, you are cherrypicking what suits your "arguments"

I will give you one possibility. It is possibility so even fanboy like you will understand: Since, we established, that one company know what other is doing, Sony found out in 2018-2019, that their GPU chip is severely less powerful that XsX. So they had two options - either produce completely new chip with higher CU count, which wasn't feasible or just try to get maximum power from current chip. So they put everything together and tried to up the frequencies until they hit peak of cooling capabilities. And since maximum frequencies caused some problems in testing, they implemented variable frequencies which take to account power load of console and can downclock in case of high heat. Sounds like possibility?

Of course they knew the about Sony's GDC presentation because if was planned regularly.
He was not talking about fact, that Microsoft knew, that Sony will reveal PS5 specs during GDC presentation. He was talking, that Microsoft knew that Sony have non-fixed frequencies for GPU and CPU. That's why, during DF article they stressed multiple times, that they have fixed frequencies. They said it multiple times because they knew, that Sony doesn't have that. Why would they do it otherwise?
 

Sinthor

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"we expect"
"most of the time"
"most of the time"
"a couple percent"

Such definitive numbers and wording.
Let's see, has MS definitively stated that their split memory bandwidth will cause no performance issues ever? 100% of the time? Come on, man. That's why most of us keep saying we need to see the games! Whispers from devs still keep saying that these two are almost indistinguishable in performance. Something you'd hardly expect to be the case if the XBsX is this uncompromising beast-mode box that so many keep trying to convince themselves that it is.
 

it_wasn't_me

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Okay. Where I pushed narrative that Sony did it in last minute? I always talked about it as possibility and surely i wasn't implying, that they saw Xbox article and upped the frequencies. But it's nice to see, you are cherrypicking what suits your "arguments"

I will give you one possibility. It is possibility so even fanboy like you will understand: Since, we established, that one company know what other is doing, Sony found out in 2018-2019, that their GPU chip is severely less powerful that XsX. So they had two options - either produce completely new chip with higher CU count, which wasn't feasible or just try to get maximum power from current chip. So they put everything together and tried to up the frequencies until they hit peak of cooling capabilities. And since maximum frequencies caused some problems in testing, they implemented variable frequencies which take to account power load of console and can downclock in case of high heat. Sounds like possibility?


He was not talking about fact, that Microsoft knew, that Sony will reveal PS5 specs during GDC presentation. He was talking, that Microsoft knew that Sony have non-fixed frequencies for GPU and CPU. That's why, during DF article they stressed multiple times, that they have fixed frequencies. They said it multiple times because they knew, that Sony doesn't have that. Why would they do it otherwise?
Just stop pretending, that one company is entirely oblivious to what's other company cooking...

Even Penello (I know you don't like the guy, but anyway) said, that during XOne development, they pretty much knew, that PS4 is better in terms of GPU power, but they believed that DDR3+ESRAM is better combo than what's Sony is doing. Only thing that caught them by surprise was 8GB RAM, which Sony famously added in "last minute" before reveal.
So, yeah! This is where you pushed "last minute" narrative.

And also, didn't you said in previous posts "Nobody knows for sure". Oh, yes, you did
 
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Rusco Da Vino

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Not in 24 hours. They probably knew for a pretty long time. There is some pretty smart people working for both companys and when SDKs get sent out you can guarantee that the other side pretty much knew what you are doing.

MS knew about Sonys boosting. They KNEW weeks before the actual announcement and they told DF multiple times that their clocks where "locked" since they KNEW Sony would present PS5 in a couple of weeks with 10,28 PEAK tflops and they could say the Xbox has 12.15 SUSTAINED tflop.
Apart from the FUD you try to spread, let me ask you something.

Are you going to buy a PS5? :)
 
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And since maximum frequencies caused some problems in testing, they implemented variable frequencies which take to account power load of console and can downclock in case of high heat. Sounds like possibility?
This is what most people seems to not get. Heat doesn't have any effect, Cerny itself said that variable frequencies based on heat on a console are SHIT, so that's not how he makes it work.
The frequencies variability is described as "deterministic" by Cerny because it is only dictate by power consumption, not heat. Power consumption is "fixed", can vary sure but the point is that developers have the ability to KNOW how much power a scene will draw from the console, while they do not know what temperature do you have in your room. The first istance is deterministic, the second one is not.
So, based on power consumption, they can determinate how frequencies will change and, if nedeed, optimize the scene to keep frequencies the closest to the max. This is why Cerny said that few % less frequencies is 10% less power, never citing heat, because heat is not the thing here. He can predict more or less how much frequencies will vary because he is very likely accustomed with the lowerst power consumption, the average power consumption and the highest power consumption during playing, while he doesn't know shit about your room.
Edit: this doesn't stop the console from overheating anyway, frequencies "should" vary on heat to keep the system in check, PS5 do not do this. That's why they likely have a monster cooling solution and a fucking V on their devkits. No matte,r what they want the console to not overheat because frequencies will not prevent this by changing.
Some people (not you) are not listening and really underestimating Cerny's intelligence, imho.
 
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markusfenix75

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This is what most people seems to not get. Heat doesn't have any effect, Cerny itself said that variable frequencies based on heat on a console are SHIT, so that's not how he makes it work.
The frequencies variability is described as "deterministic" by Cerny because it is only dictate by power consumption, not heat. Power consumption is "fixed", can vary sure but the point is that developers have the ability to KNOW how much power a scene will draw from the console, while they do not know what temperature do you have in your room. The first istance is deterministic, the second one is not.
So, based on power consumption, they can determinate how frequencies will change and, if nedeed, optimize the scene to keep frequencies the closest to the max. This is why Cerny said that few % less frequencies is 10% less power, never citing heat, because heat is not the thing here. He can predict more or less how much frequencies will vary because he is very likely accustomed with the lowerst power consumption, the average power consumption and the highest power consumption during playing, while he doesn't know shit about your room.
Some people (not you) are not listening and really underestimating Cerny's intelligence, imho.
Yup. that's mistake on my part.
 

lepermessiah

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I remember the Rage comparisons between 360 and PS3. Blu-Ray ended up being the savior for PS3 :messenger_tears_of_joy: Can't we expect something similar with Sony's crazy SSD tech?

Johnny Carmack: "...PS3 version will look slightly better due to more storage space for high-resolution textures, thanks to Blu-ray Disc’s 50GB capacity. “All of the key scenes, the things anyone is going to take a screenshot of are going to look exactly the same on both platforms. They’ll get the high-quality compression,” said Carmack. “But if you go into some areas in the wasteland, like behind a fence where nobody will typically go and explore, this is where the 360 version may look a little blurry compared to the PS3.”
 
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Yup. that's mistake on my part.
It's partially Sony's mistake.
Show some PS4 games heavily modified like 4K 60 fps with RT and super particles, or some heavy renders like Hellblade 2 trailer, and show with numbers in real time how the system handle this.
But no, they went "dev talk listen here lulz".
 
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markusfenix75

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Sure! Look who's talking
:messenger_tears_of_joy:
Nice try. "Who sells more" never concerned me if it wasn't so low, that it kills the brand (SEGA). And in future it won't be event that big of a deal that it is now, since cross-play and cross-save is pretty much future.

But i see, that you are deeply disturbed. Don't worry. PS5 will of course sell more consoles worldwide, since there are markets, they are untouchable (Mainland Europe, Japan). So you can sleep with ease
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Nice try. "Who sells more" never concerned me if it wasn't so low, that it kills the brand (SEGA). And in future it won't be event that big of a deal that it is now, since cross-play and cross-save is pretty much future.

But i see, that you are deeply disturbed. Don't worry. PS5 will of course sell more consoles worldwide, since there are markets, they are untouchable (Mainland Europe, Japan). So you can sleep with ease
Naaah, it's not a nice try. Looks like you're disturbed for not accepting that PS5 GPU upclock wasn't last minute thing, yet you accusing my claim as "fanboyish". Right!
 

markusfenix75

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Naaah, it's not a nice try. Looks like you're disturbed for not accepting that PS5 GPU upclock wasn't last minute thing, yet you accusing my claim as "fanboyish". Right!
Nope, i'm not. Because i never said that PS5 GPU upclock was a last minute thing.

But sure, you can read with comprehension, right?

Or?
 
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All this TFs debacle is probably only in hardcore gamers head.
Like two years ago or less, RDNA2 was considered absurd in a console. "Bro it's not even out on PCs". Without that it would have been very difficult to reach 12 TFs of equivalent GCN power and both consoles have it. A lot of people (including a DF guy I recall) were "bro consoles 8 TFs what do you expect next gen big jumps dead".
I remember speculating with a friend about a GTX 1080 inside a console like an atomic bomb, and a 1080 TI like a wet dream.
Whoever thinks that it's not wort to buy PS5 because of TFs, I have to say it, I don't even know why he/she is gaming.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Nope, i'm not. Because i never said that PS5 GPU upclock was a last minute thing.

But sure, you can read with comprehension, right?

Or?
I see. If you, like you said that PS5 GPU upclock wasn't a last minute thing, then why the hell you quoted me in the first place on previous page where my post was pointed to other member who said that Sony's upclock was a last minute thing because they didn't want to go public with 9 TF and i said it wasn't in a different way?

Oh yes, now i know. My claim is fanboyish. Right
 
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ThaMonkeyClaw

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All this TFs debacle is probably only in hardcore gamers head.
Like two years ago or less, RDNA2 was considered absurd in a console. "Bro it's not even out on PCs". Without that it would have been very difficult to reach 12 TFs of equivalent GCN power and both consoles have it. A lot of people (including a DF guy I recall) were "bro consoles 8 TFs what do you expect next gen big jumps dead".
I remember speculating with a friend about a GTX 1080 inside a console like an atomic bomb, and a 1080 TI like a wet dream.
Whoever thinks that it's not wort to buy PS5 because of TFs, I have to say it, I don't even know why he/she is gaming.
Just the gap between a typical gaming PC versus consoles is so damn close now compared to older generations and in some ways exceeding it, people should be excited for both consoles and stop bashing each other! Both consoles are going to be amazing and bring some really awesome games this next gen and I can't wait to play them!
 
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markusfenix75

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I see. If you, like you said that PS5 GPU upclock wasn't a last minute thing, then why the hell you quoted me in the first place on previous page where my post was pointed to other member who said that Sony's upclock was a last minute thing because they didn't want to go public with 9 TF and i said it wasn't in a different way?

Oh yes, now i know. My claim is fanboyish. Right
because i wanted to explain what he was trying to say, since you clearly have a problem with understanding (not just with me), what other people are trying to say :messenger_tears_of_joy:

nothing else mate, nothing else.
 

nosseman

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Benchmarks. We need benchmarks. Case in point: Doom Eternal performing a tad better on PS4 Pro than the X despite the lower but largely neglible drop in res, and the delta is larger between the Pro and the X...😂

For next generation I'd prefer a solid 1440p with denser texture streaming per frame over a fixed 4K and less frames.
"largely neglible drop in res" :)

Doom Eternal in noticeable more blurry on PS4 Pro than on Xbox One X.


Mostly because 1800p is much better to upscale to 4k than 1440p (60% more pixels)
 

BluRayHiDef

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Why were Sony's target specifications for the PlayStation 5 so low? Why did they gimp on the CPU and GPU, which are the core of any gaming machine's power?
 

it_wasn't_me

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because i wanted to explain what he was trying to say, since you clearly have a problem with understanding (not just with me), what other people are trying to say :messenger_tears_of_joy:

nothing else mate, nothing else.
Then you should quote him, not me in the first place. Since you accused my claim as fanboyish, that surely means that you support his last minute claim which is, according to your criterion i presume, not fanboyish.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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If anything, Pro will come with 18CU at ~3GHz to utilize the CU workload even more, and a 1650MB 11GB/s SSD. I can already see the headlines - "worlds's fastest gaming console just became even faster!" ;)
It's much, much more cheaper to make it double of the older existing one. Is XSX going for 104CU? Probably, but priced much higher indeed.
 
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Why were Sony's target specifications for the PlayStation 5 so low? Why did they gimp on the CPU and GPU, which are the core of any gaming machine's power?
Rumour has it, PS5 was supposed to be a 2019 launch.

But for whatever reason, it got delayed to 2020, but the core specs were already done and no turning back except they figured out how to upclock the gpu so PS5 could reach the psychological 10tf benchmark.

You can tell Sony did some weird last minute customizing because they resorted to a 2.23 ghz gpu to get to 10tf, instead of just doing something normal like a gpu at a modest speed (like every other console made), but bump up the CUs like MS did.

And PS5 can't even max out its cpu and gpu speeds at full load or else it resorts to some variable underclocking where the ghz speeds have to slow down as the system can't handle it.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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72 CUs 21 TFs... technology goes fast.
So...
Predictions for PS6 and Xbox Series X Class Z?
Yup, it is going fast. Ampere and Big Navi this year will be more powerful than PS5 Pro in 2024. Probably people were not reading some of the reports thrown around here:




Welcome to the future.
 

Bo_Hazem

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I don't think you can even reach 240 fps on a TV, but 120 fps is aready overkill.
That's why those excess fps will either translate into much bigger draw distances with less compromises in terms of quality, or a new HDMI 3.0 down the line.


HDMI 2.1 is already 48Gbps compared to 18Gbps in HDMI 2.0. DP 2.0 will be hitting 80Gbps:


Technology just woke up after fucking sinking in 1080p bullshit for nearly 1.5 decade. I remember getting 1080p in 2007, 4K in 2015. Might jump to 8K soon or wait until microLED comes in 2023. 16K is the ultimate goal for TV's so far, but they might still keep pushing.

EDIT: HDMI 2.0 is 18Gbps.
 
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nosseman

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Apart from the FUD you try to spread, let me ask you something.

Are you going to buy a PS5? :)
PC MASTER RACE!!! :)

On a more seriously note - I do not think I am spreading FUD - I voice my opinion and speculate about next gen gaming consoles.

Another side note - the only consoles I own is a Switch (that collects dust) and a PS3 where I play GT6 with a steering wheel. I have tried both Forza and Forza Horizions and know that better graphics does not automatically mean a better game (GT6 is much better).

If a new Gran Turismo comes to PS5 I just might bite the bullet. ;)
 
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DaGamez

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If anything, Pro will come with 18CU at ~3GHz to utilize the CU workload even more, and a 1650MB 11GB/s SSD. I can already see the headlines - "worlds's fastest gaming console just became even faster!" ;)
Nah, they'll quadruple the speed of the SSD and stick a Radeon 3000 in there. I've heard that a fast SSD is basically a replacement for the GPU/CPU/RAM.
 

Shio

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If anything, Pro will come with 18CU at ~3GHz to utilize the CU workload even more, and a 1650MB 11GB/s SSD. I can already see the headlines - "worlds's fastest gaming console just became even faster!" ;)
How can PS5 be called the fastest console when the CPU is slower than Xbox Series X?
 
Oct 26, 2018
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Not in 24 hours. They probably knew for a pretty long time. There is some pretty smart people working for both companys and when SDKs get sent out you can guarantee that the other side pretty much knew what you are doing.

MS knew about Sonys boosting. They KNEW weeks before the actual announcement and they told DF multiple times that their clocks where "locked" since they KNEW Sony would present PS5 in a couple of weeks with 10,28 PEAK tflops and they could say the Xbox has 12.15 SUSTAINED tflop.
I'm sure MS and Sony know about each other's systems for a year. Aside from any weird last minute adjustments that can be done to the dev kit or final retail spec.

Both companies make games for each other. MS has Minecraft and possibly whatever multiplats are still going to PS as MS has been gobbling up studios the past year or two.

And Sony's baseball game is coming in 2021.

So unless each side wanted to play hardball and some reason purposely not send each other dev kits until after they each revealed specs to the public (a week ago) which I doubt, each side has known what cards they other has. They just have NDA agreements (like every studio) not to going around telling the world what the specs are on Twitter.
 

ZywyPL

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Yup, it is going fast. Ampere and Big Navi this year will be more powerful than PS5 Pro in 2024. Probably people were not reading some of the reports thrown around here:
I've seen a leak/rumor today which points out that Ampere might actually have just 4992 SP and 12GB GDDR6, which is not as dramatic step up from current 2080Ti as previously rumored 7-8k SP GPUs with 16GB VRAM... Besides, even if those 20-30TF GPUs turn out to be real, who and why otehr than content creators would need such computing power for 1080p, or 1440p at best? 4K is basically non-existent on PC, if anything, widescreen or multi-screen setups are vastly more popular, but they apply to narrow applications like all sort of simulators, or a simple/office work that can rely on iGPU. And DLSS 2.0 basically makes anything above 1080p irrelevant right now. And with all that said, I expect that upcoming mid, or even low-end GPUs will match with the upcoming consoles, maybe not in terms of on-paper specs/Tflops, but in the actual performance/results.
 
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DaGamez

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I was reading the other day that it is expected that 3080 ships with an 8GB variant as base, GDDR6 prices/availability will keep things a bit more conservative, IMO.
 

Lone Wolf

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lol This is in no way what is going on right now. Swap the SSD and GPU and you would have it right. Everyone is so enamored with the XSX because it’s the “stronger” of the two systems, but now more developers are coming out and showing their excitement for PS5 which has fanboys up in a tizzy.
I heard Devs are really excited about the Smart Throttle feature Exclusive to PS5.
 
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