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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Kusarigama

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Less computationally intensive.
Sound is essentially a one-dimensional wave (because of how pressure behaves).
Light is 3D...
How can sound be one dimensional? Sound is mechanical vibrations set in a medium(air usually). Light has dual nature, it is electromagnetic wave as well as particle(a tiny packet of energy, the so called quantum). So since both have wave nature both travel in a given space(3 dimensions)
 

B_Boss

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Folks need to realize that PC gamers out-number console gamers by large...
You know, this is the second time Ive seen this claim so far and Im genuinely surprised, especially given how another member here had made mention of the reason why PC isnt as widely used for gaming as consoles are.

Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers? I thought that generally speaking there are far more console gamers than PC gamers .
 

DaGamez

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You know, this is the second time Ive seen this claim so far and Im genuinely surprised, especially given how another member here had made mention of the reason why PC isnt as widely used for gaming as consoles are.

Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers? I thought that generally speaking there are far more console gamers than PC gamers .
I guess it would depend on what you consider a PC gamer. If it is only considering PC users with a GFX Card that could provide console level gaming, I would think that consoles would outnumber gaming PCs by a strong margin. If you include integrated graphics users that sometimes play older games at lower settings, PC would have the advantage.
 

~Fake

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Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers?
No. If your question was 'there are more PC users than gamers', so yes. As I posted today, my guess are those 'potential' PC users, not necessarily 'PC gamers'.

Its just like saying 'This game is coming to PC', when actually is coming for a personal computer that is running Windows Operation System, not necessarily a 'PC'.
 
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megreotsugua

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You know, this is the second time Ive seen this claim so far and Im genuinely surprised, especially given how another member here had made mention of the reason why PC isnt as widely used for gaming as consoles are.

Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers? I thought that generally speaking there are far more console gamers than PC gamers .
There are a lot of PC gamers with crappy PC that only plays CSgo, Dota2, MMOs and the likes.
 

~Fake

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There are a lot of PC gamers with crappy PC that only plays CSgo, Dota2, MMOs and the likes.
As same as console users with old game consoles. Not much of a point you have. Poor countries like my (Brazil) when you can't 'piracy' computer components, but you indeed can get a 'piracy' gaming console for very cheap. And even if there is a research showing otherwise, most of than don't take into consideration poor countries.
 
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-snip-

For some reason cant @ Bo Hazem, what sorcery allowed him to come bacl from a perm?


But on a serious note Evillore reviewed his case and determined that the ban was unjust. You can read about it in the Bans Justification thread.

 
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3liteDragon

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Guys, the release date for Ghost of Tsushima has been changed to August 1st, 2020 on the PlayStation Canada website.








We actually might be getting TLOU2 in June! I think we might be getting an announcement tomorrow.
 
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HawarMiran

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Grodiak

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Less computationally intensive.
Sound is essentially a one-dimensional wave (because of how pressure behaves).
Light is 3D...
As a physical phenomenon, this makes absolutely zero sense. Both light and sound are waves with varying frequencies. Both go from point a to point b making it already impossible to be one dimensional (a one-dimensional wave does not exist). And to that same point, not 3d.
 
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You know, this is the second time Ive seen this claim so far and Im genuinely surprised, especially given how another member here had made mention of the reason why PC isnt as widely used for gaming as consoles are.

Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers? I thought that generally speaking there are far more console gamers than PC gamers .
Depends on the genre of game, but if you look at Publisher's sales figures, PC games only make up a fraction of the marker. Like 15-20% in comparison to consoles and mobile.
 
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SonGoku

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Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers? I thought that generally speaking there are far more console gamers than PC gamers
There are more pc gamers but the bulk of them play LoL and other f2p games on their toaster computers/laptops, also Chinese market is predominately PC but again plays f2p games mostly
The audience for AAA games is bigger on consoles though, thats why AAA publishers prioritize consoles because that's were the money is for the type of games they make.
As a physical phenomenon, this makes absolutely zero sense. Both light and sound are waves with varying frequencies. Both go from point a to point b making it already impossible to be one dimensional (a one-dimensional wave does not exist). And to that same point, not 3d.
I don't know specifics, but Audio RT is much cheaper on resources.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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There is no BigNavi yet and it is RDNA 2.

RDNA is limited to 64 ROPs.

And no AMD GPU ever had more than 64ROPs (excluding Dual GPU for obvious reasons)... it is a limitation of GCN that carried to RDNA.

To change that in RDNA 2 they need to increase the number of Shader Arrays to more than 4. But Xbox with 56 CUs doesnt seems to be using more than 4 Shader Arrays.

And about the 2x Navi you dont need to increase the number of Shader Array just increase the number of WGP in each Shader Array... for example from 5 WGP in Navi 10 to 10 WGP in BigNavi and you will have 80 CUs.

It is not clear what AMD will do.

Said it doesnt seems to me that Xbox is using more than 4 SAs with 7 WGP each because both 6 SAs and 8 SAs doesnt fit 56CUs.... 6 with 4WGP = 48, 6 with 5WGP = 60, 8 with 4WGP = 64, 8 with 3WGP = 48.

So the only option to 56CUs is 4SAs with 7WGP.

That means 64ROPs.
The chances to Xbox have more than 64ROPs lies in drastic changes to the Architecture that I dont believe it will have.
If your conclusion that the XSX's GPU has 64 ROPs is correct, how would it perform relative to the PS5's GPU, considering that it runs at 1.825 GHz while the PS5's GPU also has 64 ROPs but runs at 2.233 GHz? Consider my previous calculations as well, please.
 
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lepermessiah

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lepermessiah lepermessiah still juicy?
Which console and what game you looking forward to most?

For some reason cant @ Bo Hazem, what sorcery allowed him to come bacl from a perm?
Looking forward to PS5 the most due to exclusives, keen to check out Halo though on the X. Ghost of Sashimi looking pretty, pretty tasty mmmm, look at dat LOD :lollipop_blowing_kiss::lollipop_blowing_kiss:

 
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ethomaz

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If your conclusion that the XSX's GPU has 64 ROPs is correct, how would it perform relative to the PS5's GPU, considering that it runs at 1.825 GHz while the PS5's GPU also has 64 ROPs but runs at 2.233 GHz? Consider my previous calculations as well, please.
I believe 64 ROPs is more than enough for 4k 120fps... to be fair I never saw an AMD GPU being bootleneck by ROPs.

Xbox One X has 32 ROPs.
 
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SonGoku

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I believe 64 ROPs is more than enough for 4k 120fps... to be fair I never saw an AMD GPU being bootleneck by ROPs.

Xbox One X has 32 ROPs.
Isn't VRS done on the rasterization step? Would be ironic if PS5 turned out to be better at VRS even if only slightly so
 
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BluRayHiDef

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I believe 64 ROPs is more than enough for 4k 120fps... to be fair I never saw an AMD GPU being bootleneck by ROPs.

Xbox One X has 32 ROPs.
Yes, but how would the ROPs running at the relatively lower frequency of 1.825 GHz fair against those of the PS5 running at 2.233 GHz, considering that the XSX's GPU is 16% faster in regard to other areas (namely fillrate and computation)?
 
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ethomaz

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Isn't VRS done on the rasterization step? Would be ironic if PS5 turned out to be better at VRS even if only slightly so
By AMD patent the rasterization step is where the shader rate is set after that it can be used in any step of the pipeline.


Also at step 402, the rasterizer stage 314 determines one or more shading rates for the samples of the triangle.

Shading rates are applied to the render target based on one or more of the following techniques: a tile-based rate determination technique, in which the render target is divided into a set of shading rate tiles and each shading rate tile is assigned a particular shading rate; a triangle-based rate determination technique, in which a particular shading rate is assigned to each primitive; and a state-based rate determination technique, in which shading rate state changes propagate through the pipeline, and, at the rasterizer stage 314, set the shading rate for subsequent pixels until the next shading rate state change is processed by the rasterizer stage 314. These techniques may be combined, with different techniques being given different priorities. In one example, the state-based rate determination technique defines a default shading rate for samples of a triangle. In this example, the tile-based rate determination technique overrides the state-based values, and the triangle-based shading rates override the state-based values and the tile-based values. Other priorities may alternatively exist, or the different techniques may be independently applied.

AMD describe three ways to use Variable Rate Shading.
 
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SlimySnake

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The new Bloomberg article is troubling. Devs expect the console to launch ah $499 to $549. Releasing a 10 tflops console at $549 is going to be a disaster.

That said, I'm not so sure if the Xbox is going to be $499 in that case. Maybe it's a $599 console after all.

Though Phil did say that they will not be outpriced this time around. Regardless, as i suspected, trying to save a few dollars on a smaller silicon was always going to be a bad idea. Now they have a weaker console with potentially the same BOM.
 

saintjules

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I think you're not using a proper headset, or your device is not producing it properly. I have a high end PC but it produces shit sound from its native 3.5 auxiliary port, but through TV's 3.5 aux and using only HDMI ARC (not eARC) the amount of detail in the sound is NEVER been in a game I've tried so far.

My headphones are pretty cheap, but Sony cellphone headphones (Sony MH410c), but good for 100-16,000Hz which is very good for such a small, cheap headphone. It's funny that they're somehow better than my Astro A40 in terms of clarity, maybe for being closer to the ear?



But don't worry, with a gaming headset if that's available in your next console, you'll be amazed.
I was actually listening on my Dynaudio studio monitors. I'll do an extensive listen, but there's definitely some stereo merging going on in the audio, but it did sound stereo for some of it. Also sounded like panning too.

I'd love to have a WAV version of the audio. We know how YouTube likes to compromise sound quality. Just like SoundCloud and the like.
 
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saintjules

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Shmunter

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The new Bloomberg article is troubling. Devs expect the console to launch ah $499 to $549. Releasing a 10 tflops console at $549 is going to be a disaster.

That said, I'm not so sure if the Xbox is going to be $499 in that case. Maybe it's a $599 console after all.

Though Phil did say that they will not be outpriced this time around. Regardless, as i suspected, trying to save a few dollars on a smaller silicon was always going to be a bad idea. Now they have a weaker console with potentially the same BOM.
Over $499 would be an issue. 10TF however totally irrelevant to a market where 99% of the consumers wouldnt even know what that is.

Only the price and games do the talking in a mass consumer market. And arguably to a layman, PS5 starting a game instantly vs the competition taking some time will speak volumes to which system appears superior. Its a tangible and obvious advantage. DF pixel counting is only a talking point on Neogaf and related offshoots.

Need to be realistic in the difference between consumers at large and us propeller-heads.
 

ethomaz

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Yes, but how would the ROPs running at the relatively lower frequency of 1.825 GHz fair against those of the PS5 running at 2.233 GHz, considering that the XSX's GPU is 16% faster in regard to other areas (namely fillrate and computation)?
We can try to make some maths.
4k @ 60fps uses how many pixels? ~500,000,000 pixels/s.

Xbox: 116,800,000,000 pixels/s
PS5: 142,720,000,000 pixels/s

I know it is a dumb math but the pixel fillrate is already way over what needed for 4k @ 60fps.
 

EliteSmurf

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Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Link to article
Sony Corp. plans to produce far fewer units of its upcoming PlayStation 5 in its first year than it had for the previous-generation consoles launch, according to people familiar with the matter.

The Tokyo-based tech giant is limiting its initial production run in part because it expects the PS5s ambitious specs to weigh on demand by leading to a high price at launch, the people said, asking not to be identified because the subject is private. The global Covid-19 pandemic has affected Sonys promotional plans for the new device but not its production capacity, they added.
The company has told assembly partners it would make 5 to 6 million units of the PS5 in the fiscal year ending March 2021, according to other people involved in the machines supply chain. When Sony released the PlayStation 4 in November 2013, it sold 7.5 million units in its first two quarters.

The PS5s loftier price tag may also deter initial take-up. Game developers whove been creating titles for the next PlayStation anticipate its price to be in the region of $499 to $549, and Bloomberg Intelligences Matthew Kanterman points to increased component costs pushing up the price required for Sony to break even. Sony has struggled with its price-setting decision for the PS5 because of scarce components, Bloomberg News has reported.

A Sony spokesman declined to comment. Its shares were largely unchanged in afternoon trade.

Sonys strategy, according to several people familiar with its plans, will be to rely on incumbent PlayStation 4 models as a bridge to get new users onto the PlayStation platforms network services while the PS5 remains in limited supply, the people said.

Currently, Sony sells the PS4 for $300 and the higher-end PS4 Pro for $400. The company may cut these prices around the time of the PS5 launch to stimulate new subscribers for the PlayStation Plus membership program and PlayStation Now game-streaming service, the people said. Sonys Chief Executive Officer Kenichiro Yoshida has said the company will aim to increase recurring revenue rather than one-time hardware purchases.


The PS5 production volume could still change depending on the Covid-19 situation, the people said. Sony has asked employees to work from home to mitigate the spread of the virus, and its board has been unable to meet to approve business plans for the current fiscal year, including those for the PlayStation unit. That meeting was originally supposed to take place in March.

Sony said last month that it plans to release results for the year ended March on April 30 but may be forced to push the date back due to the pandemic.

The virus has already upended Sonys promotional plans. The company may forgo hosting a public press conference for its PS5 release date and price unveiling due to infection fears. Recently, it was forced to reveal its DualSense PS5 controller in a hurried fashion, according to people informed on the matter.

While only a small circle within Sony are privy to the appearance of the PS5 console, the controller has been shared with outside developers and the company feared it couldnt control leaks, they said.
Still, Sony remains unlikely to delay the launch of the PS5 from the critical year-end shopping season. So long as archrival Microsoft Corp. doesnt push back the release of its next-generation Xbox, also expected at the end of the year, Sony wont delay either, the people said. Some analysts believe the close contest for attention between the PlayStation and Xbox, especially in the U.S., may force both companies to sell their new consoles at a loss.

I think both the PS5 and Xbox Series X may end up at US$450 even though they would lose money at that price, said Damian Thong, an analyst at Macquarie Capital.
Suppliers have started delivering components to PS5 assemblers, who are scheduled to begin mass-producing the product by June. Sonys PlayStation chief Jim Ryan has stressed that the machines launch should be simultaneous around the globe, according to people in the companys supply chain.
Covid-19 travel restrictions have prevented Sony engineers from flying to China to direct final adjustments before assembly plants go into mass production. Sonys assembly partner had voiced concern last month about meeting the production deadline, however those worries have since abated and it should now be able to meet Sonys requested schedule, people familiar with the discussions said.
On the software front, Sony has publicly warned that the Covid-19 pandemic may affect the game production pipeline for titles destined for its next console, which is a problem the entire industry is grappling with.
TL;DR : Developers expect the console to be between $499 and $549 and 5 to 6 Million consoles being made in the fiscal year ending March 2021.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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We can try to make some maths.
4k @ 60fps uses how many pixels? ~500,000,000 pixels/s.

Xbox: 116,800,000,000 pixels/s
PS5: 142,720,000,000 pixels/s

I know it is a dumb math but the pixel fillrate is already way over what needed for 4k @ 60fps.
This is an informative response, but I'm still wondering whether the difference in rasterization would result in some perceivaable difference, or is rasterization not as important as fillrate and computation?
 
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Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Link to article

TL;DR : Developers expect the console to be between $499 and $549 and 5 to 6 Million consoles being made in the fiscal year ending March 2021.
I'm not really surprised. Wondering if they'll delay those next-gen consoles eventually. Especially taking the economic effects of covid-19 into consideration.
Well we will see how everything turns out. Thanks for the info anyways.

Even if it were $1000, I'd still buy it before a price drop.
I guess 1000 would be to much for me personally, i'd pay up to 700 without hesitation however.
查it: Might however depend on my job, as long as I'm getting my full current wage that souldn't be a problem.
 
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BluRayHiDef

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I'm not really surprised. Wondering if they'll delay those next-gen consoles eventually. Especially taking the economic effects of covid-19 into consideration.
Well we will see how everything turns out. Thanks for the info anyways.



I guess 1000 would be to much for me personally, i'd pay up to 700 without hesitation however.
查it: Might however depend on my job, as long as I'm getting my full current wage that souldn't be a problem.
I hope that demand doesn't exceed supply and subsequently makes it difficult to acquire one.
 

Panajev2001a

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What agendas? If two systems do something exactly the same, isn't that the norm then? The standard they set? Hence the new normal. Why do Playstation fans always get so defensive about their system? It's a good console, but it doesn't have to be the best at every aspect.
Really? Is it really the PS fans that neeeed to have their console be best at everything maybe even reaching into things like fake HDR (computed as a post process effect like your TV) to claim superiority?
 
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FeiRR

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I was looking for that, thanks! I mean, for the name of the technique, not the article itself. When I called RT 'a gimmick', people jumped at me. What I wanted to say was there are many ways to achieve similar graphics fidelity without diminishing returns of full path tracing for which the consumer hardware isn't ready yet. Now I was able to find a video which shows how those techniques can be used:

You know, this is the second time Ive seen this claim so far and Im genuinely surprised, especially given how another member here had made mention of the reason why PC isnt as widely used for gaming as consoles are.

Is is really true that there are more PC gamers than console gamers? I thought that generally speaking there are far more console gamers than PC gamers .
The less wealthy a country, the more people play on PCs and, of course, mobile. The reason is simple: PC can be primarily used for work and learning and then also for entertainment. Console is a one-purpose machine so it's a luxury in most of the world. Moreover, to play online you need to pay a sub, while on PC it's free and many MP games are free to play too. It's estimated that there are over 2 billion PCs in the world, most of them are capable of running old and non-demanding games. For example, have you ever heard of Crossfire? It's the most popular shooter in the world. COD probably has one tenth of its player population.

Guys, the release date for Ghost of Tsushima has been changed to August 1st, 2020 on the PlayStation Canada website.
We actually might be getting TLOU2 in June! I think we might be getting an announcement tomorrow.
I'm not sure I'm happy about that. The only way I could get FF7R was digital because physical copies aren't available due to border lockdowns. I don't want to get those games digitally, besides they're 30% more expensive that way.

Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Link to article

TL;DR : Developers expect the console to be between $499 and $549 and 5 to 6 Million consoles being made in the fiscal year ending March 2021.
The most interesting information in that article for me is that the assembly factories are receiving components for PS5. Which means the hardware (including form factor) is finished. June reveal seems plausible now.
 

X-Fighter

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Really? It is the PS fans that neeeed to have their console be best at everything maybe even reaching into things like fake HDR (computed as a post process effect like your TV) to claim superiority?
Really? Fake HDR... Someone asked a question about BC, and I just responded with how XSX did it. Nowhere did I say that XSX is the best console. You are being childish.
 

3liteDragon

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1) If Ghost of Tsushima gets delayed I'll go nuclear
2) If I can't get a launch PS5 because of limited supply I'll go nuclear
3) If I don't see next-gen gameplay within 3 weeks I'll go nuclear
I think were getting a console design reveal and teardown at the end of this month or in May. Then their blowout reveal in the summer would focus on the OS, unannounced features and games.
 

FeiRR

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I hope that demand doesn't exceed supply and subsequently makes it difficult to acquire one.
I had a PS4 preorder at launch. When I was collecting mine, the shop assistant told me there that day he had turned away dozens of people who hadn't pre-ordered and asked if I wanted to sell mine. I checked online: I could get 20 percent more than launch price without any problems. The same was with Pro: it was impossible to buy for at least 3 months after launch.

I'm going to preorder PS5 the moment it's possible. If I can afford it at launch, that's another question...
 

ZywyPL

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Sony Plans Limited PlayStation 5 Output in First Year
Link to article

TL;DR : Developers expect the console to be between $499 and $549 and 5 to 6 Million consoles being made in the fiscal year ending March 2021.
So actually 600-650$ for the end consumer due to supply shortages, just as what happened with PS4... Hopefully the supplies will be enough to support the demand, otherwise the stores will rip our wallets apart.
 

BluRayHiDef

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I had a PS4 preorder at launch. When I was collecting mine, the shop assistant told me there that day he had turned away dozens of people who hadn't pre-ordered and asked if I wanted to sell mine. I checked online: I could get 20 percent more than launch price without any problems. The same was with Pro: it was impossible to buy for at least 3 months after launch.

I'm going to preorder PS5 the moment it's possible. If I can afford it at launch, that's another question...
If this happens, there will be beatings and robberies.
 
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