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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Elog

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Vega 64 had trouble utilizing all the cu's effectively in the first place
Yes - look up the cache numbers. I do not know what AMD was thinking but 16kb per CU in L0 cache is really low compared to the other cards in that generation (1080Ti -> 48Kb, 2080 -> 64Kb, 2080Ti -> 64 Kb, 3080 -> 128 Kb). One of the core reasons for poor CU utilisation under load.
 
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the multiplay games have not looked good, Only dirt, assassins creed and that turned based yakuza game, its not the showing you expect from a next-gen showing.
I'm keeping my expectations for multiplats on the PS5 really low. If they turn out much better than what I'm expecting that will be a very pleasant surprise if not it won't be unexpected.
 

sircaw

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A local pond.
I'm keeping my expectations for multiplats on the PS5 really low. If they turn out much better than what I'm expecting that will be a very pleasant surprise if not it won't be unexpected.
As long as the loading is super fast and gameplay smooth i don't really care to much about them as a whole, the only real game in terms of multplats that i really want is diablo 4 and that could be years away.

i ha ve not even played the old ass creed games yet and by the looks of the new one, i will not touch that for at least a year.

Cyberpunk looks cool though and i really like the developer, might support them out the gate if i can afford it, don't know, there is so much other stuff to play
 

kyliethicc

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Microsoft wouldn't be talking about power so much if they didn't believe it. It's why im expecting the PS5 to lose multiplat comparisons.
Yes they would. They'd say it anyways. You're gonna be very confused when games like CoD FIFA NBA AC GTA etc are the same on both.

Xbox said "power power power" and then gave the world Halo Craig. This isn't hard to understand lol.

Seriously - name a game, then say what resolution and frame rate you expect it to be on Xbox and PlayStation. C'mon.
 
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sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
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Yes they would. They'd say it anyways. You're gonna be very confused when games like CoD FIFA NBA AC GTA etc are the same on both.

Xbox said "power power power" and then gave the world Halo Craig. This isn't hard to understand lol.

Seriously - name a game, then say what resolution and frame rate you expect it to be on Xbox and PlayStation. C'mon.
this is the truth, Power, power power, its been harped on about for months now, even going back to that 6 tflop machine, whatever its name was called. Microsoft loves that word, it's a great word, its hypnotizes the masses.

so far i have seen nothing to say jesus that's amazing, NOTHING from xbox.

If xbox people want people to change their tune, just deliver the goods, show us something breathtaking.

Show us demon souls or a R+c but don't for the love of God show me a fucking craig and then try to defend it.

I think that's what majority of Sony fans want to see on this forum, we are just waiting for the goods, nothing more nothing less.
 

Snowdonhoffen

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Yes they would. They'd say it anyways. You're gonna be very confused when games like CoD FIFA NBA AC GTA etc are the same on both.

Xbox said "power power power" and then gave the world Halo Craig. This isn't hard to understand lol.

Seriously - name a game, then say what resolution and frame rate you expect it to be on Xbox and PlayStation. C'mon.
I've been thinking that if a game can do 4K/30 on PS5 it may be able to push a little higher resolutions or frames on XSX. For example, if a game is 30 fps on PS5 it may go up to 40fps on the XSX but instead of leaving the game at an unlocked framerate they lock it at 30 to have the most consistent experience but it will be at rock solid 30. So yeah, it has more power but not enough to have "double the resolution and framerates" that some people have been hyping up.
 

mancs

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Most movies in the theatre are 2k upsampled and projected at 4k. 16k is decades out there is no system available to move that content around. 4k is more than enough to handle any film grain detail. 8k is only good depending on screen sizes 80’+. You could have a smaller 8k but the current technology used to acheivr this (LCD) has artifacts ( blooming, black levels, ghosting) that kill the image resolution advatange. Oled 8k has heat issues with densely packed pixels, high nits at smaller sizes. While it might be able to hit 8k the light output would be dem. Qd-oled q-Ned have light leakage and blue light issues. Once figure out this will bring us 12 bit panels, a true rgb panel like crt, with oled black levels, high nits, this is the future probably about 5 years out. Until then 4k is king, 8k is a waste. 12bit panels, 4:4:4 content is a bigger upgrade than 8k imo. Most content is 8bit 4:2:2 We haven’t hit that with 2k yet.
If the resolution gain, keeps giving details ,no matter how small , it is never a waste , fk me..... I give up .... 444 is a colour gradient , it has fk all to do with resolution , stop trying to argue against intelligence....

Cinema analogue Is equal to 16k digital
 
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mancs

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I remember 3 years before dvd blew up , a sales man , ... It will never take off, whilst banging a big laser disc in player... If resolution becomes a waste at a certain point , it's because no more detail can be rendered, technically wise.
seeing that the world can go into minute details , resolution can never be waste , so long as the presentation , is able to produce the details the camera given , caught at , a 8k camera footage on a 1080 p TV will look sharper , but less micro details , there , but not, because of the lack of providing , the 8k footage as it is supposed to be seen. The only waste is , when the screen , computer , or what ever it is , is not showing you the content , which is available in , either recorded assets , or in games , designed , scanned assets. The screen size , goes hand in hand with the distance one seats to screen....
 

Darklor01

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Unfortunately, human psychology tends to dictate that when you have hung your strong allegiances to a particular organisation, when that organisation fails to live up to your expectations, it’s much easier to take your frustrations out on those who are aligned with the competition, than it is to criticise the organisation itself.

If XBox does show games footage that parallels Ps5’s, some of the anger and heat will go out of this thread, and the forum in general. I truly hope they do this very soon.
I don’t think so. People who have a flag, fly it in denial no matter what evidence is shown. I see it everywhere.

These consoles are close in power. On paper, it seems, XSX is more powerful. If games have a lower res but higher frame rate on a console but not the other, some will claim victory for console A or B. For some, if one has better Ray Tracing results, even if the other console has 4K, and the console with 1440p has the better ray tracing... people will plant their flag of victory for their console of choice.

There will be no victors this gen except those who can play all the games where they want to or for those that don’t give a shit.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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BOOOOOM.
This begins to take too much shape for FUD, besides agreeing that AMD has let the Hotchip introduce before them RDNA2, the issue of clocks.

Too many things point to it but there are still days. 10 days to be exact. Until that day he considered it half FUD.
It was a FUD that's been created by fanatics very close to Microsoft, Phil Spencer, and other execs. It was a reflection of what it seems XSX's reality, and now it's backfiring as you can't lie for too long.

 
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kyliethicc

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I've been thinking that if a game can do 4K/30 on PS5 it may be able to push a little higher resolutions or frames on XSX. For example, if a game is 30 fps on PS5 it may go up to 40fps on the XSX but instead of leaving the game at an unlocked framerate they lock it at 30 to have the most consistent experience but it will be at rock solid 30. So yeah, it has more power but not enough to have "double the resolution and framerates" that some people have been hyping up.
Sure maybe a few games could be like 3-5 FPS different or a slightly higher average dynamic resolution but I doubt it for most games.

Nothing that almost anyone could notice with their eyes.

Unlike the One X v PS4 Pro, the pros/cons of the new Xbox and PS5 are too evenly matched to repeat that trend of Xbox having slightly higher res games at same frame rates.

The machines are too similar to result in any significant differences, except the largest difference between the 2 consoles - the SSD speed. Meaning PS5 will load some games a bit faster.

As soon as I saw the UE5 demo running on a PS5 I knew all this shit was over. The major differences will be the exclusive games, the ecosystems, controllers, etc.
 

T-Cake

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This is quite dumb. Every multiplat game so far is the same on both consoles.
I'm thinking that at this point in development, most are developing for the PS5 and using its available power but then when making the XBox version, the GDK toolset is not quite as mature and therefore the XBox is getting underutilized. Hence, multiplats are currently looking/performing the same.
 

Dibils2k

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People trying to argue that higher resolution is a waste.... Lmfao , dat 1080p ui has alot to blame for , #resolutiongatept2
i mean its hilarious how the stances changed... before the UI news sony fans were saying 4k doesnt matter and that its a waste of resources(for games too, where its arguably more important!)... now if something isnt 4k it isnt worth existing
 
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DaGwaphics

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Knowing the performance of RDNA2 is:
80 CU at 2.4 GHz TGP 255W

52 CU at 1.86 Ghz at 210W I don't think they don't have a TGP budget to upload them.

It seems strange to me that they are so far from what RDNA2 achieved, there really must be some more reason, since the TGP should be enough to reach even 2 GHz.
Don't forget they have a CPU to think about on there as well (in Arden). As far as AMD on a desktop part it's possible that like clocks wouldn't offer enough differentiation between the larger and smaller chips, they try to fit price points most of the time.
 

geordiemp

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I'm thinking that at this point in development, most are developing for the PS5 and using its available power but then when making the XBox version, the GDK toolset is not quite as mature and therefore the XBox is getting underutilized. Hence, multiplats are currently looking/performing the same.

Allot of their parties develop in DX12 and convert to ps5 using GNMX.

NO. Thats not how it works.

Sony first party and any dev who puts in extra GNM effort will see benefits.

There is no hidden powa or future powa to be unlocked. Games can make efficiencies such as mesh shading and VRS to do less work on both sides, but with ray tracing and UE5 these work saving methods become less important or obsolete in some cases.
 
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kyliethicc

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I'm thinking that at this point in development, most are developing for the PS5 and using its available power but then when making the XBox version, the GDK toolset is not quite as mature and therefore the XBox is getting underutilized. Hence, multiplats are currently looking/performing the same.
Lol no. Its that the Xbox has split bandwidth that bottlenecks the system, a much slower clock GPU, and slower I/O with less dedicated silicon to free up the CPU.

And getting more shaders to be fully used is harder. There are diminishing returns to shader count increases and it doesn't scale linearly with resolution, especially if the clock speed drops significantly.

There's only 1 game I can find currently that is significantly different on PS5 vs XSX. And thats DMC5 - the one that only has ray tracing on PS5.

People need to realize the XSX vs PS5 is NOT the XOneX vs PS4 Pro again.
 
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i mean its hilarious how the stances changed... before the UI news sony fans were saying 4k doesnt matter and that its a waste of resources(for games too, where its arguably more important!)... now if something isnt 4k it isnt worth existing
Isn't the PS4 Pros UI 4K?

And we are talking about a difference between 1080P and 4K not 1800P and 4K.

Also many people loved Demon Souls and said the game looked next gen. But according to Digital Foundry it was running at 1440P. Even with that Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem could only find one jagged line in the image while the rest of it was clean.

What im trying to say is that even though the resolution might be lower it's the final product that matters. It's why many find technologies like DLSS and Insomniacs TI so fascinating.
 

DaGwaphics

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Yes, 8-channel on high-end NVMe m.2 SSD's is also a waste. Anything that's not on Xbox is a waste.

Who's using 8 PCIe lanes (what we were talking about) for an SSD? MS is using a 2 lane, 4 channel part, while Sony is using a 4 lane, 8 channel part (correction, Sony has inefficiently used 12 lanes to achieve less bandwidth than PC parts with 8). Sony obviously needs the extra lanes because their raw output is higher than what is offered by two PCIe4 lanes.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Isn't the PS4 Pros UI 4K?

And we are talking about a difference between 1080P and 4K not 1800P and 4K.

Also many people loved Demon Souls and said the game looked next gen. But according to Digital Foundry it was running at 1440P. Even with that Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem could only find one jagged line in the image while the rest of it was clean.

What im trying to say is that even though the resolution might be lower it's the final product that matters. It's why many find technologies like DLSS and Insomniacs TI so fascinating.
BTW, that single jagged line could be an LOD transition, not 1440p. Also could be VRS. It happened extremely quickly that most people won't even see it if you go watch the video again.

I'm more interested in the AI image reconstruction tech Sony is using.
 

T-Cake

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Lol no. Its that the Xbox has split bandwidth that bottlenecks the system, a much slower clock GPU, and slower I/O with less dedicated silicon to free up the CPU.

And getting more shaders to be fully used is harder. There are diminishing returns to shader count increases and it doesn't scale linearly with resolution, especially if the clock speed drops significantly.

There's only 1 game I can find currently that is significantly different on PS5 vs XSX. And thats DMC5 - the one that only has ray tracing on PS5.

People need to realize the XSX vs PS5 is NOT the XOneX vs PS4 Pro again.
So with this line of thought, do you think that the XBox is going to be permanently crippled in this way and multiplats will always perform the same or very similar between XSX and PS5?
 

Dibils2k

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Isn't the PS4 Pros UI 4K?

And we are talking about a difference between 1080P and 4K not 1800P and 4K.

Also many people loved Demon Souls and said the game looked next gen. But according to Digital Foundry it was running at 1440P. Even with that Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem could only find one jagged line in the image while the rest of it was clean.

What im trying to say is that even though the resolution might be lower it's the final product that matters. It's why many find technologies like DLSS and Insomniacs TI so fascinating.
more 1440p rather than 4k

look i dont care, i am just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy.

i hate the fact Series X UI isnt 4k, but i also hate when games are 1440p over 1800p/4k
 

kyliethicc

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Who's using 8 PCIe lanes (what we were talking about) for an SSD? MS is using a 2 lane, 4 channel part, while Sony is using a 4 lane, 8 channel part. Sony obviously needs the extra lanes because their raw output is higher than what is offered by two PCIe4 lanes.
No.

PS5 is PCIe Gen4x4. It has a 12 channel internal interface.
The Xbox is PCIe Gen4x2, with a 4 channel internal interface.

Bo was talking about M.2 SSDs like the 980 Pro that have 8 channels.
 

ToadMan

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It’s absurde to believe that PS5 hardware is not on the top. I can’t believe this. The power crown is a system seller for many.
Yes, let’s take a moment to remember Nintendo.

How long was it now they went out of business because of their low power hardware ?

Still hats off to the victor - MS has produced the most powerflops console and they deserve to be dominating in game sales, making a profit and bending the 3rd parties to their will.

Well that’s the set up for an alternate reality Netflix series about how the console market went. Back in the real world MS are distant third and Nintendo is outselling everyone.

Your hot take isn’t looking so hot.
 

kyliethicc

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So with this line of thought, do you think that the XBox is going to be permanently crippled in this way and multiplats will always perform the same or very similar between XSX and PS5?
I think both systems have unique strengths and weaknesses, and almost all games will be the same on both.
 
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DaGwaphics

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No.

PS5 is PCIe Gen4x4. It has a 12 channel internal interface.
The Xbox is PCIe Gen4x2, with a 4 channel internal interface.

Bo was talking about M.2 SSDs like the 980 Pro that have 8 channels.
In the post he quoted of mine, everyone was talking about PCIe bandwidth, so was specifically in reference to PCIe lanes.
 

geordiemp

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What? XSX has 40% more CU's, it is a wider design with more transistors to power.
XSx has 4 shader arrays, Navi 22 has 4 shader arrays, ps5 has 4 shader arrays. What is wide exactly in your opinion ?

A longer shader array would be a better description.



Big Navi has 80 CU and 8 shader arrays rumoured, that is WIDE, and fast.
 
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mitchman

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Will be nice to put in my play and charge kit, I used on my Xbox One / One X since 2013. But I probably have to buy an usb c cable.
I use Panasonic eneloop rechargable batteries for all my controllers and AA devices, works great.
I don't think the SSD's DRAM is used to cache files..
SSDs will keep all or a portion of the map in DDR2 or DDR3 (usually). DRAM is much faster than NAND, so the SSD can access the map quickly to increase performance. DDR-type memory loses data when there isn't any power, but NAND stores it even when the power goes out. The SSD keeps a copy of the map on the NAND to reduce the chance that it will lose the map from a power loss. (Technically, the SSD doesn’t lose the data, it just loses the map, so it can't find it).
TL;DR; It's used to cache the file lookup table.
Microsoft wouldn't be talking about power so much if they didn't believe it. It's why im expecting the PS5 to lose multiplat comparisons.
You mean like they did on this very forum before the Xbox One and PS4 launches? They don't have a good track record for accuracy in their power talks...
 

LiquidRex

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The last video that I saw from RGT he personally believe the CUs are RDNA2 in the XSX. However he did say he didn't have any sources that told him that if I'm not wrong. Hopefully he has an answer to that question. I will definitely be watching this one.
Top channel... Excellent track record and gaining considerable popularity and much warranted respect... I'll be watching later too. 👍
 

kyliethicc

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In the post he quoted of mine, everyone was talking about PCIe bandwidth, so was specifically in reference to PCIe lanes.
There are no SSDs with PCIe 4.0 x8 lanes lol. He was talking about the internal interface connecting the NAND to the controller.

He was mocking the idea that "if the xbox doesn't have it, its not needed" and listing another thing the Xbox does not have, joking its not needed either, which is an 8 channel interface. It has 4 channels.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Who's using 8 PCIe lanes (what we were talking about) for an SSD? MS is using a 2 lane, 4 channel part, while Sony is using a 4 lane, 8 channel part. Sony obviously needs the extra lanes because their raw output is higher than what is offered by two PCIe4 lanes.
No such thing as 8 PCIe lanes. It's 4x standard everywhere, for low-tier up to top tier. Xbox's 2x lane is pretty odd and never heard of other NVMe's using only 2x lanes instead of full 4x. That could be added to the dodgy SSD performance in XSX as well.

Sony is using fucking 12-channel, a level above the top tier market, that's why Sweeney called it "God-tier". 12-channel per 12-modules, the perfect ratio of 1:1. That's why 7GB/s NVMe m.2 is not as good, along with being 2 priority levels (how many orders can be done in/out, causing lip sync problems, stutter, pop-ins, and other problems as they wait for their queue) compared to 6 in the PS5 which give more freedom for the devs.
 
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DaGwaphics

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XSx has 4 shader arrays, Navi 22 has 4 shader arrays, ps5 has 4 shader arrays. What is wide exactly in your opinion ?
Since when has this expression not referred to the stream processor count? Wide and slow has always refereed to a higher stream processor count and lower clocks vs. fewer processors at higher clocks. You taking it upon yourself to change it?
 

DaGwaphics

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No such thing as 8 PCIe lanes. It's 4x standard everywhere, for low-tier up to top tier. Xbox's 2x lane is pretty odd and never heard of other NVMe's using only 2x lanes instead of full 4x. That could be added to the dodgy SSD performance in XSX as well.

Sony is using fucking 12-channel, a level above the top tier market, that's why Sweeney called it "God-tier". 12-channel per 12-modules, the perfect ratio of 1:1. That's why 7GB/s NVMe m.2 is not as good, along with being 2 priority levels (how many orders can be done in/out, causing lip sync problems, stutter, pop-ins, and other problems as they wait for their order) compared to 6 in the PS5 which gives more freedom for the devs.
I'm still trying to figure out how this relates to the post of mine that you quoted initially. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Dibils2k

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The PS4 Pro system UI is fully native 4K.
in regards to sony fans, i am talking about games... how they say 4k doesnt matter in games but apparently do in UI?

PS4 Pro UI is 4k, more powerful Xbox One X UI is 1080p... nothing has changed, yet sony fans are trying to make a big deal out of it lol
 
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mancs

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i mean its hilarious how the stances changed... before the UI news sony fans were saying 4k doesnt matter and that its a waste of resources(for games too, where its arguably more important!)... now if something isnt 4k it isnt worth existing
I play on a pro, and have been enjoying 4k gaming for a while , never said 4k gaming is a waste, ever, and would never go back to standard hd.
using that as a defence is weak, and detracting.

On another note.
I also enjoyed 1080p a very good while before most did ,on My Panasonic plasma back in the day.

The difference between VHS and standard definition , to dvd on a hd plasma was staggering , I imagine the trend to continue, so long as there is details captured, rendered , and made to be shown , on compliant , compliances
 
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geordiemp

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Since when has this expression not referred to the stream processor count? Wide and slow has always refereed to a higher stream processor count and lower clocks vs. fewer processors at higher clocks. You taking it upon yourself to change it?
Since when has shader array had 14 CU on AMD chips ?

Wide design to me for 50-60 CU would of had 5 or 6 shader arrays.

Call it what you want.
 
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DaGwaphics

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There are no SSDs with PCIe 4.0 x8 lanes lol. He was talking about the internal interface connecting the NAND to the controller.

He was mocking the idea that "if the xbox doesn't have it, its not needed" and listing another thing the Xbox does not have, joking its not needed either, which is an 8 channel interface. It has 4 channels.
There are x8 and x16 SSDs, very expensive though. I was talking specifically about the PCIe lanes in the post he quoted, LOL. I've accepted that he intended to quote someone else and was talking about a different subject. LOL