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[onesvenus]

Sorry if this has already been posted, too many pages on this thread, but this seemed relevant:







These tweets are part of the mega-thread around the KittyYYuko leak thread.

Is this guy some insider? Because it reads as secret-sauce wishful thinking.

The thing about RDNA2 being a joint-development of Sony-AMD smells a lot. There's no public patents with engineers from both teams to be seen.

I somehow don't believe for a second that Sony has better graphics hardware engineers than AMD. Why would they? They haven't developed any graphics hardware in house for a long time.

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

Sorry if this has already been posted, too many pages on this thread, but this seemed relevant:







These tweets are part of the mega-thread around the KittyYYuko leak thread.

I will believe it when I hear from Dr. Lisa "we with our friends at Sony/PlayStation" on the 28th. I guess it's useless to dwell on that when the RDNA2 reveal is so close.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Xbox fans still having a hard time understanding that Sony didn’t work with MS on the development of the Series GPUs.

Oh noes, different results... how is it possible???????

 

[Hashi]

Is this guy some insider? Because it reads as secret-sauce wishful thinking.

The thing about RDNA2 being a joint-development of Sony-AMD smells a lot. There's no public patents with engineers from both teams to be seen.

I somehow don't believe for a second that Sony has better graphics hardware engineers than AMD. Why would they? They haven't developed any graphics hardware in house for a long time.

But they have programmers

 

[MasterCornholio]

He debunks alot in the video. Basically both the PS5 and the XSX have RDNA2 CUs. RDNA1 CUs wouldn't work in a console due to the power requirements.

 

[Antelope]

Is this guy some insider? Because it reads as secret-sauce wishful thinking.

The thing about RDNA2 being a joint-development of Sony-AMD smells a lot. There's no public patents with engineers from both teams to be seen.

I somehow don't believe for a second that Sony has better graphics hardware engineers than AMD. Why would they? They haven't developed any graphics hardware in house for a long time.

I remember Moore’s Law is Dead making multiple veiled references to some backroom drama between AMD, Sony and MS. Just gossip since nothing was substantiated.

Also, didn’t AMD confirm that they integrated features from the PS4 Pro GPU development into their own GPU’s?

I still believe that the consoles will perform more or less the same. If any of this is true, it sounds more like Sony pulling equivalent performance but in a more cost effective package.

 

[cragarmi]

It's not 1440p, it's not fucking 1440p! A clown at DF that had no idea and blatantly lying/guessing 1440p is being taken like holy words. It's too 4K to most so-called 4K games shown on other platforms, it's just on another level. Is it reconstructed? We don't fucking no, no one knows but Bluepoint and Sony. So unless you have something official, please drop this BS with all due respect.

It's fidelity mode and framerates mode.

And here, this is the better version of that framerates mode screenshot:

Demons' Souls (Remake)

PS5 4K screenshots. (1st+2nd gameplay trailers)

ibb.co

Yes its reconstructed, most likely using the updated checkerboarding, which integrates ML. Its not 1440p, but its not true 4k either, but who cares if you cant tell? (But only NVidia can do DLSS, AMD/Sony-Hold my beer!)

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Yes its reconstructed, most likely using the updated checkerboarding, which integrates ML. Its not 1440p, but its not true 4k either, but who cares if you cant tell? (But only NVidia can do DLSS, AMD/Sony-Hold my beer!)

Yes, the latest CP2077 Nvidia RTX 30 series trailer wasn't native 4K, and it was soft as well in some spots and not as highly detailed. Well, Nvidia has to deal with all the bottlenecks of the aging PC architecture.

 

[onesvenus]

DMC5 is running with RT on PS5, with no RT on XSX so far for example. It's all over the place, with PS5 having the same or better version so far, but FPS comparisons gonna be interesting, very interesting.

Is it really so though for you people to think that maybe there's something more to it than the XSX is less powerful than the PS5 or the XSX has problems narrative?
Is it really so strange to think that the development team had to prioritize and the priorized the platform which is expected to sell more?

I'm not coming down on this on either side, but remember those strange rumours that Sony and AMD were working together to create Navi:

Sources: AMD Created Navi For Sony's PlayStation 5, Vega Suffered

Sources reveal not only that the PS5 uses Navi graphics, but nearly 2/3 of AMD's engineering resources were devoted to the task.

www.forbes.com

Interesting, this is all the way back in June 2018 remember.

This doesn't say anything about working together to create Navy, it says it was an AMD product made for Sony, nothing else. We would be seeing patents assigned to both Sony and AMD engineers and that's not happening. Look at the patent for the infinity cache for example, all AMD engineers. If it's such an integral part of the PS5 GPU and it was jointly developed by Sony and AMD, how come nothing is attributed to Sony?

2K21, COD, Avengers will all have RT, not yet for XSX.

Is there any confirmation about the XSX not having RT in 2k21 or COD at launch?
Square-Enix already confirmed that neither PS5 not XSX would have the next-gen patch until next year.

 

[Dibils2k]

Well if your going to hook up a PC to a 4K TV you have to make sure it's powerful enough to output your games at 4K. At least with PC you can get a guarantee of that but with consoles your limited by whatever resolution the developers want to give you.

I'm mostly picking up a PS5 for the exclusives and the much quicker I/O but I know it won't handle everything at 4K.

when witcher 3 came out no one was gaming on 4k lol i had 1080p TV back then like everyone else. That was one of the reasons i tried PC gaming, since Ps4 and Xbox one was so underpowered (more XOne), the problem wasnt the picture quality or frames, it was everything else. PC hooked up to a TV is nowhere near close to the same experience as a console hooked up to a TV

 

[cragarmi]

More test-kits are popping up in the wild, I suspect we will see more hands on previews in the coming week, hopefully it wont just be more Sack Boy, and Godfall.

 

[MasterCornholio]

PC hooked up to a TV is nowhere near close to the same experience as a console hooked up to a TV

I can understand that but neither are Native 4K boxes if that's what your looking for. It's basically up to developers and not you what the resolution and framerates are.

But I do agree that consoles are really simple and a joy to use. You don't have worry about crazy tweaking or constantly upgrading your hardware to play the latest games. But you sacrifice alot of options if you go with consoles instead of PC.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Xbox fans still having a hard time understanding that Sony didn’t work with MS on the development of the Series GPUs.

Oh noes, different results... how is it possible???????

What Xbox fans are having that issue? I see Sony fans implying that the Xbox GPUs do not benefit from RDNA2 nor node enhancements (despite how that math doesn't work).

 

[onesvenus]

Also, didn’t AMD confirm that they integrated features from the PS4 Pro GPU development into their own GPU’s?

No, that's history revisionism.
In Cerny's own words when talking about the development of PS4 Pro's GPU

we look at the roadmap features and we look at area and we make some decisions and we even - in this case - have the opportunity, from time to time, to have a feature in our chip before it's in a discrete GPU

Notice that he is talking about AMD's roadmap. Nothing else.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Is there any confirmation about the XSX not having RT in 2k21 or COD at launch?
Square-Enix already confirmed that neither PS5 not XSX would have the next-gen patch until next year.

No mention of ray tracing in the link.

DMC5 is confirmed and shown RT on PS5, and XSX later.
So far, we've seen plenty of games running on PS5 with impressive raytracing implementation, nothing as good on XSX so far. That's the hard facts so far.

 

[onesvenus]

But they have programmers

Are you somehow implying that graphics programmers, as awesome as they are, have better hardware knowledge than AMDs engineers? Really?

Is there some basis to that or just more wishful thinking? It seems like you all are grasping at straws to fit the narrative that says that Navi was a Sony/AMD joint development without any proof whatsoever

 

[geordiemp]

No, that's history revisionism.
In Cerny's own words when talking about the development of PS4 Pro's GPU

Notice that he is talking about AMD's roadmap. Nothing else.

Are you somehow implying that graphics programmers, as awesome as they are, have better hardware knowledge than AMDs engineers? Really?

Is there some basis to that or just more wishful thinking? It seems like you all are grasping at straws to fit the narrative that says that Navi was a Sony/AMD joint development without any proof whatsoever

Cerny and Naughty dog do have some recent pixel verticies compression / optimisation patent methods, google it, that modifies where the work gets done and what order in the pixel to shader pipeline...

Also ACE queues started as sony, cache scrubbers, cache coherency...There is more, do you want to read the patents and methods ? What about a more efficient VRS that applies to VR ?

That will do for now. No you dont know

 

[onesvenus]

No mention of ray tracing in the link.

DMC5 is confirmed and shown RT on PS5, and XSX later.
So far, we've seen plenty of games running on PS5 with impressive raytracing implementation, nothing as good on XSX so far. That's the hard facts so far.

I agree, DMC5 does not have RT at launch on XSX and the PS5 has shown much better use of RT but you were saying that neither NBA2k21, COD nor Avengers would have RT on the XSX at launch. I was asking where that was coming from but it seems you don't have any source.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Oops, it's taken from a 1 year old PC footage as it seems, timestamped:





Nice try.

EDIT: It's 1440p@60fps as well.

EDIT2: There is XSX footage similar to the above, but the RTX 3090 screenshot is just BS.

EDIT3: That's only higher quality SSR, not RT.

 

[cragarmi]

Yes, the latest CP2077 Nvidia RTX 30 series trailer wasn't native 4K, and it was soft as well in some spots and not as highly detailed. Well, Nvidia has to deal with all the bottlenecks of the aging PC architecture.

And I suspect Horizon II is also using the same method new CB method, it will be interesting to see what resolution DF think that is when we get to see game play.

 

[onesvenus]

Sony and Naughty dog do have some recent pixel verycies compression / optimisation patent methods, google it.

So some Sony studio having some graphics related patents means that there's a collaboration between them and AMD?

Microsoft has many more patents on graphics techniques due to developing Direct X. Does that mean that they are also collaborating with AMD?

 

[Neo_game]

Isn't the l2 cache on PS5 4mb ? Why people are expecting PS5 to have really big cache. I am not sure RDNA2 reveal has anything to do with PS5 either.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

And I suspect Horizon II is also using the same method new CB method, it will be interesting to see what resolution DF think that is when we get to see game play.

Could be just Geometry Engines, and pretty early build as well. If you zoom in you clearly see those pixels:

Zoom closer to her eyes, and the fur around her neck. Seems to be early implementation of Geometry Engines.

 

[sircaw]

More test-kits are popping up in the wild, I suspect we will see more hands on previews in the coming week, hopefully it wont just be more Sack Boy, and Godfall.

i would not mind having a bit more of a look at sackboy it really has grown on me.

Wtb an alex kidd in that kind of environment.

 

[geordiemp]

So some Sony studio having some graphics related patents means that there's a collaboration between them and AMD?

Microsoft has many more patents on graphics techniques due to developing Direct X. Does that mean that they are also collaborating with AMD?

Yes they are, and you have the customised XSX as a result. I suppose SFS is MS only and Direct storage.

Mesh shaders and VRS may differ, as will cache optimisation and throughput. Lots of differences.

Thats why Ps5 and XSX will be as much different than they are the same.

How well do they run games, how are the ray tracing expensive effects on a console budget going, well you have to look and see.

 

[Thirty7ven]

What Xbox fans are having that issue? I see Sony fans implying that the Xbox GPUs do not benefit from RDNA2 nor node enhancements (despite how that math doesn't work).

No, what is being said is that they won’t share the exact same feature set. Xbox fans are desperate to believe that they have the same except one is a bigger gpu.

 

[smallpotatosan]

Oops, it's taken from a 1 year old PC footage as it seems, timestamped:





Nice try.

OMG, the green camp did it again? smh

 

[cragarmi]

I agree, DMC5 does not have RT at launch on XSX and the PS5 has shown much better use of RT but you were saying that neither NBA2k21, COD nor Avengers would have RT on the XSX at launch. I was asking where that was coming from but it seems you don't have any source.

As far as I'm aware the only game which is confirmed to have RT at launch on both systems is Watchdogs, but there is still time for that to change! Avengers next gen version is suddenly missing launch for both systems, and COD has just said they will have raytracing on both, no promises when though! (I could be wrong about COD?)

Either way their XDK needs work, maybe there is something wacky about MSs RT implementation?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I agree, DMC5 does not have RT at launch on XSX and the PS5 has shown much better use of RT but you were saying that neither NBA2k21, COD nor Avengers would have RT on the XSX at launch. I was asking where that was coming from but it seems you don't have any source.

Didn't state any time, said it doesn't have RT "yet", whether it's around launch, or never. Xbox used PS5 footage on both NBA2K21 and COD as "next gen build". Avenger the whole patch was said wasn't ready back in PS blog.

So let's wait and see how that console will do with RT.

 

[geordiemp]

Isn't the l2 cache on PS5 4mb ? Why people are expecting PS5 to have really big cache. I am not sure RDNA2 reveal has anything to do with PS5 either.

Sources ?

Ah its you, you made it up. Whatever. Not long now .....

 

[Moridianae]

If I'm to infer this stuff right, Sony is utilizing concise technology, probably with some more advanced tech than the Xbox Series X has.

The XsX is more powerful, but the PS5 punches quite a bit higher than it's overall TF count gives away due to what Cerny and AMD customized specifically for that system itself.

The XsX will probably still outperform the PS5 on multiplatform games as developers become more accustomed to each system, but the difference will be nominal. This doesn't account for new engines or tools that enable more advanced things to be done at less cost on both systems.


It's really silly to compare because we're at launch. Demon's Souls and Spider-Man both look fantastic, but let's be realistic--

We all know they don't harness what the system can really do. Nothing at launch really ever does. The only exception to that I can think of in recent memory was Soul Calibur for Dreamcast, which still shines to this day.

Point being--go back in 3 years and look at Demon's Souls versus titles being developed years in and you'll see a stark difference, likewise for the XsX.

 

[sircaw]

Sources ?

Ah its you, you made it up. Whatever. Not long now .....

GEORDIE!

 

[geordiemp]

If I'm to infer this stuff right, Sony is utilizing concise technology, probably with some more advanced tech than the Xbox Series X has.

The XsX is more powerful, but the PS5 punches quite a bit higher than it's overall TF count gives away due to what Cerny and AMD customized specifically for that system itself.

The XsX will probably still outperform the PS5 on multiplatform games as developers become more accustomed to each system, but the difference will be nominal. This doesn't account for new engines or tools that enable more advanced things to be done at less cost on both systems.


It's really silly to compare because we're at launch. Demon's Souls and Spider-Man both look fantastic, but let's be realistic--

We all know they don't harness what the system can really do. Nothing at launch really ever does. The only exception to that I can think of in recent memory was Soul Calibur for Dreamcast, which still shines to this day.

Point being--go back in 3 years and look at Demon's Souls versus titles being developed years in and you'll see a stark difference, likewise for the XsX.

You realise allot of games are made using direct X12 by 3rd party and coded to Ps5 using GNMX ? Or they use Vulkan / other...

The main improvement mid last gen was moving on from DX11.

There is no magic powa coming, what you see is what it is.

 

[sircaw]

If I'm to infer this stuff right, Sony is utilizing concise technology, probably with some more advanced tech than the Xbox Series X has.

The XsX is more powerful, but the PS5 punches quite a bit higher than it's overall TF count gives away due to what Cerny and AMD customized specifically for that system itself.

this is kinda how i see it, but don't fucking say this or some people will want you to apologize for being Born.

 

[saintjules]

wrong thread

 

[Mr Moose]

So some Sony studio having some graphics related patents means that there's a collaboration between them and AMD?

Microsoft has many more patents on graphics techniques due to developing Direct X. Does that mean that they are also collaborating with AMD?

Yes.

AMD co-developed Microsoft’s DXR 1.1 API to speed up Xbox Series X ray tracing

AMD's "all-new hardware accelerated ray tracing architecture" is going into PC and console GPUs, helping drive adoption and speed

www.pcgamesn.com

AMD and Nvidia working closely with Microsoft on DXR API

DirectX Raytracing, revealed at GDC 2018, could make 3D games even more spectacular.

hexus.net

 

[smallpotatosan]

If I'm to infer this stuff right, Sony is utilizing concise technology, probably with some more advanced tech than the Xbox Series X has.

The XsX is more powerful, but the PS5 punches quite a bit higher than it's overall TF count gives away due to what Cerny and AMD customized specifically for that system itself.

The XsX will probably still outperform the PS5 on multiplatform games as developers become more accustomed to each system, but the difference will be nominal. This doesn't account for new engines or tools that enable more advanced things to be done at less cost on both systems.


It's really silly to compare because we're at launch. Demon's Souls and Spider-Man both look fantastic, but let's be realistic--

We all know they don't harness what the system can really do. Nothing at launch really ever does. The only exception to that I can think of in recent memory was Soul Calibur for Dreamcast, which still shines to this day.

Point being--go back in 3 years and look at Demon's Souls versus titles being developed years in and you'll see a stark difference, likewise for the XsX.

i don't know man... i feel like bringing Craig out. lol

PC gamers all know the fact that certain games run better on AMD vs Nvidia though Nvidia's TF is higher. I feel multiplats this gen will be similar to PC, it all depends on which platform is the lead. A game designed around PS5 will perform better than the Xbox version and vice versa. As most multiplats starts with PC, I do think Xbox has an edge in those. Then the next thing we will do is to compare the multiplats designed for PS5 vs ones designed for xbox. This war will rage on for a while

 

[cragarmi]

i would not mind having a bit more of a look at sackboy it really has grown on me.

Wtb an alex kidd in that kind of environment.

I do like Sack Boy but he's hardly the graphically showcase to show a next-gen leap. Mind you it still looks better than the mud monster of Dirt 5, did not even look like they were using anisotropic filtering, x16 should be a minimum!

 

[ToadMan]

This is too much techno-babble for me. I really don't understand what's going on these last few pages.

For a layman, am I to infer that the current rumors is that PS5 utilizes more advanced technology than the XsX? Something like that? It's weaker, but not neccesarily because of the things it has from RDNA2 supposedly?

My suggestion is just look at the games available - graphics quality if that’s your thing - and decide for yourself.

The rest is he said, she said....

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

Oops, it's taken from a 1 year old PC footage as it seems, timestamped:





Nice try.

EDIT: It's 1440p@60fps as well.

Is it true? I can't really tell from my screen.

 

[sircaw]

I do like Sack Boy but he's hardly the graphically showcase to show a next-gen leap. Mind you it still looks better than the mud monster of Dirt 5, did not even look like they were using anisotropic filtering, x16 should be a minimum!

I just love the way the world looks, it just looks fun, a bit like astro game. I cant wait to see some of the other settings, like the jungle etc. #

It's less about graphics for me and more about world design and gameplay. Saying that i still think it looks very beautiful.

 

[gmoran]

I don't believe this for a second.

Also, who is this and why should it be taken seriously?

Agreed this has no provenance, but it was relevant to Geordie's post.

Looks like he is elaborating on this back on Twitter, so it will be interesting to see if there is any push back or corroboration.

And of course none of this makes XSX gpu any worse or the PS5's better. XSX still has the most powerful GPU, and without the context of the RDNA2 reveal at the end of the month its hard to know what any of this really means - still fascinating though.

 

[Moridianae]

I just find it folly. These systems are a pretty large leap in what folks could expect out of a console.

Just be happy your system is very powerful in its own right. I mean, graphics are nice, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over an FPS thing or a few less pixels. That being said, I would like to play Overwatch in 120fps to see for myself how that feels.

And I'm sure there's a PS5 Pro or Xbox Series Z, Ultra, whatever incoming in a few years. It was beneficial to them to do midgen upgrades.

Maybe here too, who knows...depends on how much more oomph they want or whatever.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Is it true? I can't really tell from my screen.

Yes, it is true. It's all but BS. And who's this Siri's Ex anyway? More like a bozo.

 

[Rea]

Oops, it's taken from a 1 year old PC footage as it seems, timestamped:





Nice try.

EDIT: It's 1440p@60fps as well.

It's fake, LOL

 

[cragarmi]

I just find it folly. These systems are a pretty large leap in what folks could expect out of a console.

Just be happy your system is very powerful in its own right. I mean, graphics are nice, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over an FPS thing or a few less pixels. That being said, I would like to play Overwatch in 120fps to see for myself how that feels.

And I'm sure there's a PS5 Pro or Xbox Series Z, Ultra, whatever incoming in a few years. It was beneficial to them to do mid gen upgrades.

Maybe here too, who knows...depends on how much more oomph they want or whatever.

I don't expect a mid gen, at least from Sony, I suspect we will just get a PS6 in 5-6 years. MS will keep cranking out more and more systems, to play the same games, as long as people buy them!

 

[demigod]

Oops, it's taken from a 1 year old PC footage as it seems, timestamped:





Nice try.

EDIT: It's 1440p@60fps as well.

Bo with the beatdown, ouchies!

 

[cragarmi]

Sources ?

Ah its you, you made it up. Whatever. Not long now .....

Likely 8 or 16 from the pics i've seen!

 

[Hashi]

Are you somehow implying that graphics programmers, as awesome as they are, have better hardware knowledge than AMDs engineers? Really?

Is there some basis to that or just more wishful thinking? It seems like you all are grasping at straws to fit the narrative that says that Navi was a Sony/AMD joint development without any proof whatsoever

If you are a programmer and suddenly you are limited by hardware or you encounter an obstacle, you are able to determine what you really need.
You have to distinguish between the transistors engineer and the software engineer.
It would be a bit strange to create architecture and throw it for programmers to learn to write code on it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If I'm to infer this stuff right, Sony is utilizing concise technology, probably with some more advanced tech than the Xbox Series X has.

The XsX is more powerful, but the PS5 punches quite a bit higher than it's overall TF count gives away due to what Cerny and AMD customized specifically for that system itself.

The XsX will probably still outperform the PS5 on multiplatform games as developers become more accustomed to each system, but the difference will be nominal. This doesn't account for new engines or tools that enable more advanced things to be done at less cost on both systems.


It's really silly to compare because we're at launch. Demon's Souls and Spider-Man both look fantastic, but let's be realistic--

We all know they don't harness what the system can really do. Nothing at launch really ever does. The only exception to that I can think of in recent memory was Soul Calibur for Dreamcast, which still shines to this day.

Point being--go back in 3 years and look at Demon's Souls versus titles being developed years in and you'll see a stark difference, likewise for the XsX.

Not saying the rumor is true because it's probably not but let's assume that it is.

The CUs in PS5 being RDNA2 and the CUs in the XSX being RDNA1 would still make the XSX the more powerful system. The only thing that will happen is that the gap would decrease even further.

What I'm not seeing is either system having a massive advantage over the other. The biggest difference between the two is the I/O. However many people don't care if the PS5 loads games twice as fast (basic example).