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[ethomaz]

Please, read the article instead of just the tweet if you want to comment on what they say and they don't.

You quoted a post where one of the quotes come from the article lol

"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today"

 

[Yoboman]

Sony should probably come out and officially confirm that the have RDNA 2 feature equivalences before this narrative gets out and hurts them

I dont see why, we will see in a few weeks how this all pans out in real world results. Would be good to hear more about the GPU tech in PS5 though

 

[ethomaz]

20 CUs disabled? You sure about that?

Looks like the same chip... so yes.
20 disabled CUs due market segmentation.

 

[scie]

So why lied about being full RDNA 2?

No one? Basically we are comparing an APU to a full GPU. They still have the same feature set, but due to APUs cost saving design the lack some hardware features. This is totally normal.

 

[Yoboman]

No

So, that's a very dubious claim to say full RDNA2 support when its missing arguably the biggest feature

 

[onesvenus]

You quoted a post where one of the quotes come from the article lol

"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today"

How the fuck are you saying "They doesn't say full hardware RDNA 2" then? It's on the title of the article

 

[ethomaz]

No one? Basically we are comparing an APU to a full GPU. They still have the same feature set, but due to APUs cost saving design the lack some hardware features. This is totally normal.

So their claim are a lie.
They don't have full RDNA 2 hardware on Xbox Series X.

How the fuck are you saying "They doesn't say full hardware RDNA 2" then? It's on the title of the article

Did you read what I said?
They are using confusing words because it is not true... they don't have full hardware RDNA 2.

 

[geordiemp]

Yes... they are doing PR and people believing it.
That is why they choose confusing works for the PR.

"Xbox Series X|S will be the only next gen consoles with full RDNA 2 integration"
"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today"

They doesn't say full hardware RDNA 2 but instead full RDNA 2 integration and/or RDNA 2 capabilities.

Correct, RDNA2 full features, namely RT, VRS,. Mesh shaders

Ps5 will have Geometry engine different, rumoured RDNA 3 lol

CUs are per CU frequency control, sound familair, ps5 and PC and 2.2 Ghz and beyond. Navi 22 Ghz will go higher than ps5, 80 CU not so much.

CUs for XSX are same as RDNA1 with RT added, fixed low frequency. Or sustained.

So ps5 is missing mesh shaders likely (feature) as it has its own custom, XSX is missing RDNA2 CUs and fast caches

Posters confuse api / features / hardware, so funny

 

[duhmetree]

We know XsX is using directX. There's not much to talk about.

I'd really like a deeper dive on PS5 tech. How are they Ray Tracing? Sony might not care enough to talk about it. They'll let the games and their sales do the talking for them

 

[thebigmanjosh]

RDNA2 CU RT hardware:

Without occupying the textures unit, this is good news for PC gamers, very good news.

Hardware SX occupying Texture Unit (Bad business to activate the RT)

So either the Hot Chips diagram isn't 1:1 with the actual XSX/S CU's or MS made compromises to include the ray accelerators compared to PC RDNA2 CU's.

RDNA1 CU for reference:

Would also explain this tweet:

 

[ethomaz]

How the fuck are you saying "They doesn't say full hardware RDNA 2" then? It's on the title of the article

Did you read what I said?

Correct, RDNA2 full features, namely RT, VRS,. Mesh shaders

Ps5 will have Geometry engine different, rumoured RDNA 3 lol

CUs are per CU freqyuency control, sound familair, ps5 and PC and 2.2 Ghz and beyond. Navi 22 Ghz will go higher than ps5, 80 CU not so much.

CUs for XSX are same as RDNA1 with RT added, fixed low frequency. Or sustained.

So ps5 is missing mesh shaders likely (feature) as it has its own custom, XSX is missing RDNA2 CUs and fast caches

Posters confuse api / features / hardware, so funny

Infinite Cache is a RDNA 2 feature... so it is not have full RDNA features.

 

[geordiemp]

Did you read what I said?

Infinite Cache is a RDNA 2 feature... so it is not have full RDNA features.

Infinity cache is for the memory clock boost, Neither console was ever going to have 128 MB on die lol

RDNA2 CU and common L1 is what likely differs the hardware, but its clear XSX is not doing per CU clock control lol.

 

[duhmetree]

Yes... they are doing PR and people believing it.
That is why they choose confusing works for the PR.

"Xbox Series X|S will be the only next gen consoles with full RDNA 2 integration"
"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today"

They doesn't say full hardware RDNA 2 but instead full RDNA 2 integration and/or RDNA 2 capabilities.

It's 'tecnically' true but misleading. Sony uses their own methods.

 

[cragarmi]

So, that's a very dubious claim to say full RDNA2 support when its missing arguably the biggest feature

AMD don't consider infinity cache to be officially part of the RDNA2 spec, I wonder why?

 

[ethomaz]

Infinity cache is for the memory clock boost, Neither console was ever going to have 128 MB on die lol

RDNA2 CU and common L1 is what likely differs the hardware, but its clear XSX is not doing per CU clock control lol.

That is some way to spin it... Infinite Cache is not a RDNA 2 hardware feature.
But it is but own AMD.

 

[geordiemp]

Do you think they might have skipped VRS to focus on checkerboard?

No, ps5 will have vRS, they will use it in VR, its an AMD tech.

You have to differentiate ACTUAL hardware from DX12 api promotion.

 

[kyliethicc]

No 3070 is 448 GB/s. Check again.

And the Xbox has the shittier bandwidth because its split. 560x(10/16)+336x(6/16)=476 GB/s on average.

Unified bandwidth is the only way to get max performance from an APU.

It isn't split, developers see it as one pool, stop the FUD. The system reserve and CPU will use the 6gb slower bandwidth( which is still higher than a X1X) and the GPU will use the 10gb high bandwidth that it needs, with a higher bit interface too.

This has been detailed several times.

Its not FUD you fucking retard. I said the BANDWIDTH is split.

You even literally said there is 6 GB of "slower bandwdith" so the bandwidth is split. Split as in not the same speed across all 16 GB. The memory is of course 1 pool of 16 GB but accessible at different speeds (split bandwidth.)

Heres a picture for you.

 

[geordiemp]

That is some way to spin it... Infinite Cache is not a RDNA 2 hardware feature.
But it is but own AMD.

They said what it does, its an alternative for 2 x memory bandwidth, so 40 CU can use a 192 bit bus. Both consoles will not have that no. Lucky to have 8 MB L2.

 

[ToadMan]

So either the Hot Chips diagram isn't 1:1 with the actual XSX/S CU's or MS made compromises to include the ray accelerators compared to PC RDNA2 CU's.

RDNA1 CU for reference:

Well on the face of it that would look bad for Xsex and may even explain why RT isn’t there in games for Xbox.

But .... if there really was an RDNA2 NDA and AMD didn’t want to tip their hand to NVidia it might be that MS creatively worked around how RT was implemented.

Now I type that it seems unlikely though...

Maybe that is MS solution to do RT - to use the TMUs as a stand in for cards that’s don’t have dedicated hardware ...

 

[Riky]

Its not FUD you fucking retard. I said the BANDWIDTH is split.

You even literally said there is 6 GB of "slower bandwdith" so the bandwidth is split. Split as in not the same speed across all 16 GB. The memory is of course 1 pool of 16 GB but accessible at different speeds (split bandwidth.)

Heres a picture for you.

No need for the abuse, grow up.

The system reserve and CPU will use the 6gb, it doesn't need to be any faster for those purposes.

The very fast 10gb will be for the GPU.

 

[duhmetree]

They said what it does, its an alternative for 2 x memory bandwidth, so 40 CU can use a 192 bit bus. Both consoles will not have that no. Lucky to have 8 MB L2.

PS5 will have a shared cache?

 

[Gudji]

It isn't split, developers see it as one pool, stop the FUD. The system reserve and CPU will use the 6gb slower bandwidth( which is still higher than a X1X) and the GPU will use the 10gb high bandwidth that it needs, with a higher bit interface too.

This has been detailed several times.

The bandwith is split between the two, NXGamer and others have talked about this previously. It's not FUD.

 

[ethomaz]

They said what it does, its an alternative for 2 x memory bandwidth, so 40 CU can use a 192 bit bus. Both consoles will not have that no. Lucky to have 8 MB L2.

That is fine... console wont't have it.
That doesn't make any of them having full hardware RDNA 2 because they both lacks at least one hardware feature (and a key one).

 

[Metroiddarks]

This thread after any presentation related to the consoles or GPU/CPU in general.

 

[LucidFlux]

Snap.

Well... more or less, my zoom meeting this afternoon was about the environmental benefits of online shopping, but same fucking ballpark, eh?

Heh same end goal I suppose. I'd love if our products could be purchased online but it's mostly through old school sales territories and channel partners, which is an odd dichotomy as I'm in the tech space lol.

Our flagship product package (without giving too much away) is rather quite large so we've been exploring creative ways customers can repurpose it as most don't tend to recycle.

 

[Bill O'Rights]

To re-iterate, reply bans are coming thick and fast in here. Think what you're posting and if it belongs here.

 

[Yoboman]

AMD don't consider infinity cache to be officially part of the RDNA2 spec, I wonder why?

You tell me? I'm like sircaw just nodding along with the more tech minded people

 

[geordiemp]

So either the Hot Chips diagram isn't 1:1 with the actual XSX/S CU's or MS made compromises to include the ray accelerators compared to PC RDNA2 CU's.

RDNA1 CU for reference:

Its been known for a few weeks that XSX CU is not RDNA2 with per CU frequency control to anyone who has been payng attention, and all the listed requirements for fast cache and fast clocks.

Yes XSX CU is exactly same as RDNA1 with added RT feature. RDNA2 CUs will look VERY different to do 2.2 Ghz and beyond.

But Ps5 will be missing mesh shaders and other oddities, and both will not have infiity cache.

Fun eh ?

 

[sircaw]

You tell me? I'm like sircaw just nodding along with the more tech minded people

Speak for yourself, when i look in the mirror i see Mark Cerny, granted i need suck my gut in a lot sigh

 

[kyliethicc]

No need for the abuse, grow up.

The system reserve and CPU will use the 6gb, it doesn't need to be any faster for those purposes.

The very fast 10gb will be for the GPU.

Don't call me a liar then. Everything I said is correct. I don't need you to try to tell me things I'm well aware.

The bandwidth is split. The only other console to do that was the PS3 and it was a major flaw. It limited game devs. Unified memory bandwidth is the far superior design. Thats why every other console (like the PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, and even the One X) all use unified bandwidth. I literally cannot find a single PC GPU to use split bandwidth either. It's a stupid bottleneck.

The memory needs to be interleaved evenly across all memory controllers to be accessed at full bandwidth evenly. Every discrete graphics card does this. Cerny said every developer said to him back in 2011 (when designing PS4) the console must have 1 unified pool of RAM with unified bandwidth. Its better for devs. Facts.

The Xbox has an SoC with an APU. Its not a gaming PC. It doesn't have 2 pools of RAM, 1 for the CPU and 1 for a discrete GPU. It doesn't have that. It has an APU that shares RAM. Therefore to get the most performance from that chip, it needed to have unified bandwidth.

 

[thurnishaleygw]

To re-iterate, reply bans are coming thick and fast in here. Think what you're posting and if it belongs here.

 

[TrippleA345]

Console World War 2.

 

[FunkMiller]

You tell me? I'm like sircaw just nodding along with the more tech minded people

In a week, this thread will just be me, you and sircaw like

 

[sircaw]

In a week, this thread will just be me, you and sircaw like

Mass extinction in process, i wanted to be king of this world but not like this.

 

[geordiemp]

No need for the abuse, grow up.

The system reserve and CPU will use the 6gb, it doesn't need to be any faster for those purposes.

The very fast 10gb will be for the GPU.

To be fair, RDNA2 has more compression it is believed, both consoles have sufficient memory bandwidth for RDNA2, they dont need 2 TB/s for PC type big NAVI performance. That is not a worry for either console IMO.

 

[MarkMe2525]

ethomaz keyboard is going to get worn out if he continues at this rate.

Is it maybe possible, just maybe, that PS5 doesn't have the hardware advantage in every meaningful category? They both built $500 packages. Sony spent more on IO and controller in the package. It's just common sense that there isn't going to be 100% parity between these two devices. They will excell in different areas.

 

[Lysandros]

I think it's misleading and unfair to compare PS5's GPU (APU) clock frequency to RDNA2 dicrete PC GPU's boost clocks (!) directly. Yes of course, RDNA2's performance per watt improvement was very important to reach those very high clocks but Sony's custom variable frequency feature was also very important. Without this feature (and elaborate cooling solution) PS5 simply wouldn't reach 2230mhz in its console/APU power limits; that was made pretty clear by Cerny in Road to PS5. This is a very high achievement that speaks volume of Sony's hardware ingenuity.

 

[sircaw]

After today

 

[Yoboman]

Speak for yourself, when i look in the mirror i see Mark Cerny, granted i need suck my gut in a lot sigh

if you're Mark, then I'm Shu

 

[onesvenus]

Its been known for a few weeks that XSX CU is not RDNA2 with per CU frequency control to anyone who has been payng attention, and all the listed requirements for fast cache and fast clocks.
Yes XSX CU is exactly same as RDNA1 with added RT feature. RDNA2 CUs will look VERY different to do 2.2 Ghz and beyond.
Fun eh ?

How come MS is saying they are using the full RDNA2 Architecture, then?
Are you also implying that they are lying?

 

[Riky]

Don't call me a liar then. Everything I said is correct. I don't need you to try to tell me things I'm well aware.

The bandwidth is split. The only other console to do that was the PS3 and it was a major flaw. It limited game devs. Unified memory bandwidth is the far superior design. Thats why every other console (like the PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, and even the One X) all use unified bandwidth. I literally cannot find a single PC GPU to use split bandwidth either. It's a stupid bottleneck.

The memory needs to be interleaved evenly across all memory controllers to be accessed at full bandwidth evenly. Every discrete graphics card does this. Cerny said every developer said to him back in 2011 (when designing PS4) the console must have 1 unified pool of RAM with unified bandwidth. Its better for devs. Facts.

The Xbox has an SoC with an APU. Its not a gaming PC. It doesn't have 2 pools of RAM, 1 for the CPU and 1 for a discrete GPU. It doesn't have that. It has an APU that shares RAM. Therefore to get the most performance from that chip, it needed to have unified bandwidth.

I called you a liar where?

I said developers see it as one pool, this is detailed by MS, they see 13.5gb of available ram. The slower 6gb is used for the OS reserve and the rest the CPU. The higher bandwidth ram is for GPU. The PS3 ram was split 50/50 so that was the problem for the GPU as it couldn't be shared. Not the case here so not the same situation.

 

[sircaw]

if you're Mark, then I'm Shu

are those vr controllers or some strange sex objects!

 

[Yoboman]

To re-iterate, reply bans are coming thick and fast in here. Think what you're posting and if it belongs here.

sircaw time to stop your SPAMMING

 

[Handy Fake]

How come MS is saying they are using the full RDNA2 Architecture, then?
Are you also implying that they are lying?

Technically speaking, they said "full hardware integration"...

 

[sircaw]

sircaw time to stop your SPAMMING

REPORT THIS YOB, THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE

 

[scie]

are those vr controllers or some strange sex objects!

Depends on usage and how strong the rumble function is

 

[bitbydeath]

Funny thing is I used to argue that PS5 was more custom while XSX was more off the shelf and Xbox fans saw it as a negative.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Its been known for a few weeks that XSX CU is not RDNA2 with per CU frequency control to anyone who has been payng attention, and all the listed requirements for fast cache and fast clocks.

Yes XSX CU is exactly same as RDNA1 with added RT feature. RDNA2 CUs will look VERY different to do 2.2 Ghz and beyond.

But Ps5 will be missing mesh shaders and other oddities, and both will not have infiity cache.

Fun eh ?

Right, and I edited the Yuko tweet into my post. The new diagrams just add some more credibility to that rumor.

PS5 will be missing the DX12U implementations of mesh shaders, VRS, etc but will have their own API's to support the same or similar features.

As for Infinity Cache, I think PS5 could still have ~32MB L3/Infinity cache shared between the CPU/GPU acting in the same or similar way. Just not the full 128MB cache for the PC cards.

 

[geordiemp]

That is fine... console wont't have it.
That doesn't make any of them having full hardware RDNA 2 because they both lacks at least one hardware feature (and a key one).

Yup, both consoles wont have full RDNA2.

RDNA2 CU - Ps5
Shared L1 and optimsied - Ps5
Ray tacing - both
VRS Both
Mesh shaders - XSX only (Ps5 will use their own modified RDNA1 GE thats customised)

Take from that what you will. Not surprising, nice that its confirmed.

Also Paul from RGT was correct on all his assumptions and leaks so far. Well done RGT.

 

[ethomaz]

ethomaz keyboard is going to get worn out if he continues at this rate.

Is it maybe possible, just maybe, that PS5 doesn't have the hardware advantage in every meaningful category? They both built $500 packages. Sony spent more on IO and controller in the package. It's just common sense that there isn't going to be 100% parity between these two devices. They will excell in different areas.

PS5 has nothing to do with what I wrote btw.
The pics are from Series X SoC that is clear not full RDNA 2 hardware.