What he is telling you is this: The "slow" and "fast" RAM share the same address pool, so it is one pool of memory, visible to both the CPU and GPU. However, when the "slow" RAM is accessed the full 320bit bus is occupied and blocks the "fast" RAM from being accessed at the same time. So in a sense, the "slow" RAM is consuming bandwith as if it would be the "fast" RAM.
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demigod
Member
Lmfao are you serious, you told him to stop spreading FUD. What do you think a person that spreads FUD is?
geordiemp
Member
VRS is AMD so is Mesh shaders, the API in DX12U is Microsoft.
Ps5 will likely ahve VRS and we know they are doing their own custom GE.
Also sony tweeted they have 1 customised RDNA1 feature, not 2. Thats GE I bet.
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onesvenus
Member
The title of the article says "A Closer Look at How Xbox Series X|S Integrates Full AMD RDNA 2 Architecture".
The body of the article says "Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today"
MarkMe2525
Member
My mention of the ps5 was a different statement from me mentioning the fact that you have posted basically the same thing 23 times over the past few pages.
geordiemp
Member
XSX does not have the below from hotchips, die shots or frequency of GPU unless they lied at Hotchips ? Take your pick.
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Handy Fake
Member
I wonder why they qualified it with the word "today"?
Metroiddarks
Member
Guys did you remember when DF (Richard) insist what will happen to the PS5 if the
CPU and GPU work using the 100% for long period and Cerny replied that kind of workload
is not realistic as console clock limited will shutdown.
But many people still not believing this, well here is an example of
what happens if this kind of workload happens in a game:
Oh look is considered a critical issue for a reason.
CPU and GPU work using the 100% for long period and Cerny replied that kind of workload
is not realistic as console clock limited will shutdown.
But many people still not believing this, well here is an example of
what happens if this kind of workload happens in a game:
Oh look is considered a critical issue for a reason.
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sircaw
Banned
well spotted sport, that could mean nothing but it could also mean a lot. We know how these fuckers work lol.
kyliethicc
Member
You accused me of FUD. I am not a liar. The thing you fail to understand is that devs have access to 1 pool of 13.5 GB of RAM, but can only feed the SoC at different speeds. Its split. This is a bottleneck. Literally every developer would want all the RAM to be at the same speed so they can use it how they want. The Xbox split bandwidth will limit them.
I guarantee in the next 7 years, a game developer will say that the memory configuration on the XSX/S is a bottleneck. I guarantee it.
A major Xbox Studios first party developer has already agreed with me. As does a dev from Remedy.
Both Xboxes have this flawed design.
"Billy Khan, a lead engine programmer at id Software, shared Gneiting’s concerns. “The memory situation is a big issue on the S,” said Khan in another deleted tweet. “The much lower amount of memory and the split memory banks with drastically slower speeds will be a major issue. Aggressively lowering the render resolutions will marginally help but will not completely counteract the deficiencies.”
Sasan Sepehr, a senior technical producer at Remedy Entertainment, also shared a brief concern. “As a consumer, I love this,” said Sepher on Twitter. “As a Technical Producer, I see trouble.”"
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21867252/twarren_200909_4177_0031.0.jpg)
Will the Xbox Series S hold back next-gen gaming?
Here’s what’s really going on with the Xbox Series S
www.theverge.com
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Riky
$MSFT
He's comparing it to the PS3 which had actually split ram for the GPU, that is not the same case here as developers see it as one pool, that wasn't the case on PS3.
jose4gg
Member
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3liteDragon
Member
He also said before today's showcase in a video, that AMD's perf-per-watt target (+50%) for RDNA 2 was surpassed and it was actually a bit higher than 50%.
Well...
Regarding Infinity Cache on the consoles, he mentioned on Twitter that his sources were hinting at something along the lines of the PS5 having a variant of the Infinity Cache implementation.
The blog post pretty much confirms that the Series X and S have the standard RDNA 2 implementation (don't know about Infinity Cache) and that the PS5 implements RDNA 2, BUT it has customizations made by Sony that have not been revealed yet (rumors of PS5 not using the standard RDNA 2 VRS implementation in favor of a customized solution that Sony has patented, RGT saying that the PS5 has better geometry handling than the standard RDNA 2 geometry engine which might influence the AMD architecture roadmap for RDNA 3). But you know exactly why MS worded it the way they did lol, not surprising coming from them anyway.
And RGT tweeted something interesting after today's presentation.
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After
Bill O'Rights
or
Mod of War
close this thread we'll need to form a support thread like a support group. How else can we deal with an emotional rollercoster of 3760 pages of memes, endless hardware discussions and don't get me started on Cu, Cu, Cus... I still can't cope with them 
Bill O'Rights
or
Mod of War
close this thread we'll need to form a support thread like a support group. How else can we deal with an emotional rollercoster of 3760 pages of memes, endless hardware discussions and don't get me started on Cu, Cu, Cus... I still can't cope with them
Riky
$MSFT
You accused me of FUD. I am not a liar. The thing you fail to understand is that devs have access to 1 pool of 13.5 GB of RAM, but can only feed the SoC at different speeds. Its split. This is a bottleneck. Literally every developer would want all the RAM to be at the same speed so they can use it how they want. The Xbox split bandwidth will limit them.
I guarantee in the next 7 years, a game developer will say that the memory configuration on the XSX/S is a bottleneck. I guarantee it.
A major Xbox Studios first party developer has already agreed with me. As does a dev from Remedy.
Both Xboxes have this flawed design.
"Billy Khan, a lead engine programmer at id Software, shared Gneiting’s concerns. “The memory situation is a big issue on the S,” said Khan in another deleted tweet. “The much lower amount of memory and the split memory banks with drastically slower speeds will be a major issue. Aggressively lowering the render resolutions will marginally help but will not completely counteract the deficiencies.”
Sasan Sepehr, a senior technical producer at Remedy Entertainment, also shared a brief concern. “As a consumer, I love this,” said Sepher on Twitter. “As a Technical Producer, I see trouble.”"
Will the Xbox Series S hold back next-gen gaming?
Here’s what’s really going on with the Xbox Series S
MS say different, they say developers wanted the fastest bandwidth possible for the GPU, I presume that means they asked them. The way to do this was to have this and be cost effective was the path they have taken. Time will tell if they were wrong but their reasoning seems solid to me.
Insane Metal
Gold Member
Actually, open source meaning it'll come to all platforms.
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bitbydeath
Member
Do devs need to program for games to use the higher spec RAM or do games just pick whatever is available and hope for the best?
kyliethicc
Member
I said both have split bandwidths. Sure the PS3 had a split pool too, but thats my point. No other console has split bandwidth. Except maybe? the One S which sorta does due to its own weird bottleneck of using DDR3 and ESRAM. Its a stupid design choice.
I never said the Series X has a split pool of ram.
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Great Hair
Banned
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sircaw
Banned
After
I won't miss this thread one bit when it closes,
mejin
Member
when you talk about green people you should've known it is all about faith, not facts.
Later MS will come back to explain what they meant.
Publisher that has TWO PS5 exclusive games coming out before any Series X games lmao both 2021
kyliethicc
Member
Billy Khan works for Xbox now lol. And he says its a "major issue". And we know Xbox GDK is giving some devs issues too.
Go ahead and burry your head in the sand. I'm sure it'll be fine. You know more than game developers, sure.
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Riky
$MSFT
No other console? How about the Xbox 360, that had ESRAM too.
JonnyMP3
Member
I won't miss this thread one bit when it closes,
I will.
The memories... The chaos... The memes... And the comrades lost to the dreaded banhammer...
But I am a glutton for punishment!
sircaw
Banned
This thread closes, i am retiring.
chilichote
Member
Why exactly we assume now, that PS5 has no infinity cache?
sircaw
Banned
Very good question. AFK
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jose4gg
Member
Until Sony says otherwise that's the overall assumption.
duhmetree
Member
This is what I was hoping for from the event or at least after it. Some confirmation.
Also PS5 is not using DXR.. what are they using? I guess its Sony magic
JonnyMP3
Member
From being a fish or swimming in a tank?
How does this square with the presentation from Cerny though. It seemed they only stopped at the.. 2.25? Ghz because the logic fell apart after that, not because they couldnt
chilichote
Member
Yeah, i understand that, but up to now this was thought to be possible, but now it no longer seems to be the case. So what exactly is it about the AMD conference that makes us rule out infinity cache?
Nowcry
Member
I assume the opposite, I think that PS5 has an infinity cache but smaller according to what it needs. However, the Coherency engine cannot control all the caches. It would not know how to execute the connections, I believe that the Coherency engine and the cache correctors are connected to infinity cache and they are cascaded down.
Yoboman
Gold Member
Why assume a system has something not shown? It might, but the default position should be it doesn't
sircaw
Banned
From being a fish or swimming in a tank?
fish days are over.
Nowcry
Member
Maybe the coherence engines and the cache checkers, or the whole IO / tempest system can't get that high without messing up the logic.
chilichote
Member
I understand that! But see my last reply.
kyliethicc
Member
360 had eDRAM which is different. Same with the One's eSRAM. Technically the eDRAM or eSRAM is its own pool of RAM with its own bandwidth. Its basically a tiny cache. Thats a different kind of memory setup. Different from the Series X/S and also not the same as the PS3, or PS4 or PS5 or One X.
The One (S) still has 1 pool of 8 GB unified bandwidth. It just has to be funneled through the eSRAM to the SoC. It was a work around (that failed) to allow for using slow DDR3 instead of fast GDDR5.
PS4 has 1 pool of 8 GB unified. Same with PS4 Pro. (Both had some extra DDR3 on the motherboard to be used for OS tasks, but that did not affect the SoC or the system RAM.) PS5 is the same, unified pool with unified speed. Same as PS4 and Xbox One X.
Series X/S have 1 pool of RAM, but the chips are not evenly interleaved across the interface. Thus limiting the bandwidth speeds of both consoles.
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duhmetree
Member
The rumored sustained clocks of Navi 22 ( 2.5ghz ) are higher but with less CUs
If PS5 is using RDNA2 CUs, Navi 22 would be the comparable, no?
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kyliethicc
Member
Thats likely the peak boost, same as Navi 21 @ 2.2 GHz rumor.
6800 XT / 6900 XT stock have peak boost of 2.25 GHz but game clocks around 2.0 GHz.
Navi 22 game clock will likely be around 2.3 GHz.
But Navi 22 and PS5 both have 40 CUs so they are comparable. Navi 22 just has a larger power budget, 192 bit bus, and L3 cache (infinity cache.)
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Yoboman
Gold Member
I dont think anybodys default position was PS5 has it, but if it did it as expected for the PC GPUs then it would be talked about today by either AMD or Sony.
Nobody is talking about it, so we can assume it most probably doesn't have it
sircaw
Banned
Why whenever i see your avatar i think of CRAPGAMER FFS. No offense.
ResilientBanana
Member
Custom mesh shading is probably due in part to their SSD optimizations
Doncabesa
Member
The infinity cache was a solid 100mm2 size wise on that big navi die shot. xbox or ps5 would have a far bigger soc if they had it.
kyliethicc
Member
Agreed Bill.
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