Rather than taking to opportunity to lambast the person, why not try and educate them as to why they are wrong?
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
Rather than taking to opportunity to lambast the person, why not try and educate them as to why they are wrong?
Didn't see this on the last page. Thank you. I genuinely didn't know this.
GHG
Gold Member
You don't speak for everyone.
If the overall experience is good enough then people can look past things like frame drops here and there. We've seen that countless times across the history of video games. This thread is about graphics, not which game you prefer from a gameplay perspective nor whether a games physics engine is running at 360fps (which is PR shit talk BTW) or not.
Hahaha. That wonderful statement followed by a "good day, sir!".
GoldenCrow
Member
As a sim? Forza isn't in the same ball park as PC when it comes to being one. I also prefer Forza over PC but it isn't a better sim.
Digital Foundry's last frame rate test of Project Cars on PS4 was patch 1.04 3 months ago and although there was improvement that frame rate was still all over the place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9UDcVpndk
I haven't seen any up to date test of the latest patch 3.0 and the just released patch 4.0 on consoles, but here's a frame rate comparision video of the PC version running on 4.2GHz i7, 16GB ram, and 2 GTX 970s. Frame rate still swings wildly even down to the low 40s in the rain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH3H5vwZWkA
If you check the PS4 section on the Project Cars forums the latest patch 4.0 released this week seem to have a few issues too.
SD TVs for NTSC were 60 fps interlaced and for PAL were 50 fps interlaced. And most 2d games ran at 60/50 fps. It wasn't until 3d gaming that games made fps sacrifices.
Dictator93
Member
Regarding that 2x970 benchmark. There is a distinct lack of transparency regarding the CPU scaling in SLI in it. Everything we know about PCars on PC points to it being heavily CPU limited when on Ultra in wet conditions (it is doing multiple render ports all over the place) and SLI incurrs a larger CPU overhead than an equally fast single card.
What about when reflections are not on their highest settings? Or when it is using a larger non-SLI'd GPU.
motorised mallard
Member
Sorry for staying off topic but what is the benefit of running the physics engine at 360 (supposedly) times a second instead of say, 240/120/60 times a second? Has T10 explained why it is like that? This is just me being armchair developer, why run the engine at 360Hz if it doesn't add any benefit compared to lower "speeds"? It surely can't be free in terms of performance.
dr guildo
Member
Exactly, and I'll add this to your assertion :
and that :
Source : http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/06/05/51-driveclub-details-might-just-blow-mind/
Stuff that should affect the car would occur in between the 60 frames that are drawn to you screen. Calculating the physics more frequently allows these moments to be accounted for, and then you just see the result once every six updates.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
I notice that too.
Fredrik
Member
Huh? Launch game Rallisport Challenge was 60fps dead locked on the original Xbox, gameplay and replays. DOA3 was obviously 60fps too. Ninja Gaiden too of course. Rallisport 2 was 60fps in gameplay and 30fps in replays. Outrun 2 was 60fps. Etc. 60fps was such a thing during that generation that I eventually started boycotting 30fps games and still had no trouble finding games to play. I'd say that Xbox, GC, DC, PS2 all had more 60fps games than Xbox360 and PS3. Basically all arcade racers were 60fps too, 30fps suddenly became "okay" when PGR3 came around but Bizarre decided to censor the phrase "60fps" to "Badgers" on their official board because they got annoyed at all the requests and complaints about their choice to go with 30fps.
So yeah don't try to fool people to think that 60fps was not a thing back then.
Edit: sorry, apparently already talked about
PGR2 was 30fps too on OG Xbox.
Was still a far better game than PGR1 though, and is generally my go to example for 30fps not automatically making a game inferior (though for racers, that's usually the case).
Mr Moose
Member
BigLee74
Member
BigLee74 would like to confirm that the silver car was an AI car & he was driving the burgandy one, and yes, he probably didn't hit X to focus on it (which he now believes will load the best possible model of the car being pointed to, correct?).
This is because he is a noob
Edit: The silver car photo (BigLee74 is no car nut) does not suffer from black crush - he was dicking around with exposures and vignettes and stuff to get something that he thought looked quite cool.
It's mostly PR bull. The same thing goes for PCars 600 times a second calculations. Some aspect may run at that frequency but it usually means very little especially graphically.
DHC-Shannow
Member
I've heard of controllers being polled at a higher frequency than the display too, could explain why some 30fps games feel 'heavy' to control and others don't due to input lag.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
This is the best thread on GAF
I've birthed a monster.
I was wrong. I apologised and learnt something. Only one guy actually gave me an explanation, then a full page of LOLzoLOl.
A reply of many from me, initiated from someone reading between the lines. Doesn't take anything from any of the points I was saying.
Seen a Forza 5 video posted, I've put many, many hours into that game and never once noticed any frame drops.
No its not. A perfect example is that when your on Sebring, the controller vibrates faster due to the cracks in the road than it's actually refreshing onscreen.
DHC-Shannow
Member
How could you possibly know that? You can sense that the controller vibrations are going quicker than 60hz?!
Well, yeah. It's not hard, especially when your going at 130mph+
It's not really, though it doesn't necessarily translate into "feel" either. in pCARS and Forza, the physics refersh rate means the rate at which the tire and suspension physics update. For example if the car is travelling at high speed over a bump in the road and the physics refresh rate is not fast enough, that bump simply won't be calculated. Sawtooth kerbs for example are something that can't be calculated properly unless you have a really high refresh rate, and the effect has to be canned ("faked" into the physics when the car is within a kerb collision are for example). But as I said, it doesn't necessarily translate into a better feel as you also have less time for calculation during each tick, though the ticks themselves don't have to differ in feel compared to slower refresh rate.
Input polling is another thing, but that was never the argument and most of these games poll the controller at a high refresh rate.
GHG
Gold Member
What in the world are you even talking about?
GT7 having those looks, plus FM6's hydroplaning puddles would be great. And maybe actual 3D puddles, too. It might cause the frame-rate to drop and the screen to tear, though.
DirgeExtinction
Member
As it's been said many times before, just because you don't notice something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
GoldenCrow
Member
That isn't how controllers work. It will be set up to output the information in unison with the visual, if you are feeling vibration before a visual then it might be worth checking if your tv isn't causing any delay or could even be that the timing of the code is slightly off if you don't feel it anywhere else. The aim is to get what you feel and what you see as close as possible and faster calculations should make this more in unison not out of sync.
You can't possibly know the exact frequency that your controller vibrates above 30hz. Please stop.
To give a more complete explanation...
NTSC is 480i at 59.97Hz. The "i" stands for interlaced. What this means is that video is actually sent in 240-line "fields", where each field draws into the even lines of the TV or the odd lines of the TV.
In the days when consoles produced 240-line visuals, it was common for them to fudge the NTSC signals, to trick the TV into displaying all of the fields as even or all of the fields as odd. This gave a true 240p image at 59.97 frames per second. Since the separation between scanned lines of video is twice as large as normal, this has the interesting quirk of leaving a sort of darker area between lines, the classic "scanlines" effect.
On the sixth-gen consoles, a different approach was more common for 60fps games: alternate between creating frames as even-lined fields and odd-lined fields, and output the video without doing anything weird to the NTSC signals. This allows the games to take advantage of the 480-line vertical resolution of the TV, while still basically having a 60fps smoothness and responsiveness.
JackAubrey
Member
A car travelling at 300kmh moves 83 metres every second, that's 1.4 metres every sixtieth of a second.
For that reason - before we get into suspension movement and anything else - it makes perfect sense for physics engines to be running at faster than the refresh rate.
Too much can happen, or be missed, in the time it takes for drawing one frame. At 300kmh 60fps is pretty slow.
For that reason - before we get into suspension movement and anything else - it makes perfect sense for physics engines to be running at faster than the refresh rate.
Too much can happen, or be missed, in the time it takes for drawing one frame. At 300kmh 60fps is pretty slow.
Jamesways
Member
And yet I find Forza to be poor at simulating motorsports... Guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a racing game.
Anyway, back on topic, ps4 pics of this rubbish, shit game with terrible physics and environments that leeh doesn't like and no one else should either.
HueyFreeman
Banned
I dunno, man - this is by and large a tech thread and you've demonstrated you don't even have a solid knowledge of the basics. Does seem to call into question all the stuff you've contributed, to say nothing of this recent controller vibration wizard perception you're capable of.
*continues to enjoy the thread as a bystander*
Anyway, back on topic, ps4 pics of this rubbish, shit game with terrible physics and environments that leeh doesn't like and no one else should either.
Lovely. pCARS is flawed, but I'm really enjoying it.
Windom Earle
Member
gameplay:
Pre race:
Pre race:
Baroquemantic
Member
Wow, Project Cars looks amazing in those shots. @Jamesways and homie above me.
Here's some more Driveclub.
Photomode:
Here's some more Driveclub.
Photomode:
icecold1983
Member
i agree too as a whole, close up shots of cars is the one thing pcars does well. certain parts of the car look better in driveclub tho, such as the rims. the material shader used on the rims in pcars doesnt look right
Precision and accuracy? Especially needed for a car game, since the pretty much all of the variables change as when the vehicle changes position. It just acts like a refresh rate, more frames = better picture, but in this case the physics are more precise.
JackAubrey
Member
Yes as I posted earlier a car moving at 300kph moves over a metre every 1/60th of a second. So a 60fps refresh rate for the physics is just not fast enough to catch everything that can happen to a car and its suspension in that time.
Lys Skygge
Member
Damn I need to play Project Cars...
DHC-Shannow
Member
Must admit I'm tempted to pick it up now after those pics.
TheAdmiester
Member
Since we're posting a lot of pCARS now, I was inspired to do some myself.
Running at 3840x2160 with 2x downsampling applied to *that* (which is technically 7.6K res being rendered unless the 2xDS doesn't work that way), then downsampled the screenshot to 1080p. Pretty much perfect IQ, the main letdown for me was the jaggies in the normal game. Unfortunately it's not playable like this, it runs at around 25FPS for me.
EDIT: I also love the fact that I can see every single little chainlink on that fence.
Running at 3840x2160 with 2x downsampling applied to *that* (which is technically 7.6K res being rendered unless the 2xDS doesn't work that way), then downsampled the screenshot to 1080p. Pretty much perfect IQ, the main letdown for me was the jaggies in the normal game. Unfortunately it's not playable like this, it runs at around 25FPS for me.
EDIT: I also love the fact that I can see every single little chainlink on that fence.
Windom Earle
Member
To mix things up, some Assetto Corsa:
edit: And here is also a nice gameplay video of the 458 GT2 for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rl0Q0i4UeY
edit: And here is also a nice gameplay video of the 458 GT2 for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rl0Q0i4UeY
i love your game, please make a sequel or new MS <3