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[Three]

I've got the time to waste and in a depraved way it's entertaining, I really don't mind. It's fun to see the mental gymnastics involved with ignoring people's points so often and so thoroughly.


Actually, I DO want you showing how shadows behave in FH3, because I damn well know how they behave and would love to see you try to prove your point. I'm also still waiting on you to at least try and list some positive things about the game which you've conveniently ignored again.

And here, here's clear footage The Crew 2 showing my graphics settings before unpausing back into showing the shadow movement. What's your excuse going to be this time?

Try turning off contact hardening soft shadows. It's a very expensive method which results in soft edges that are stepped like that due to resolution but give a more realistic natural look to shadows because they're soft and distance based (penumbra) . Try on high setting instead. That will give you hard shadows but may improve it for you if it is the look you prefer. In fact setting it to medium low might even reduce update time and cause less noticable 'crawling' as shadows will simply jump to their next position after some time.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Try turning off contact hardening soft shadows. It's a very expensive method which results in soft edges that are stepped like that due to resolution but give a more realistic natural look to shadows because they're soft and distance based (penumbra) . Try on high setting instead. That will give you hard shadows but may improve it for you if it is the look you prefer. In fact setting it to medium low might even reduce update time and cause less noticable 'crawling' as shadows will simply jump to their next position after some time.

Thanks, but the shadows don't bother me personally. I didn't intend to come across as complaining, just showing that they're not the flawless implementation a certain someone makes them out to be.

 

[thelastword]

I've got the time to waste and in a depraved way it's entertaining, I really don't mind. It's fun to see the mental gymnastics involved with ignoring people's points so often and so thoroughly.

And here, here's clear footage The Crew 2 showing my graphics settings before unpausing back into showing the shadow movement. What's your excuse going to be this time?

Ok, so I posted 4 videos of gameplay showing a comparison against FH3. After some feedback, I said shadows and lighting is better in TC2, you came here and went off a cliff because I mentioned shadows..Your proof is to show some wavey shadows in a showroom, but fail to understand that these are much more expensive shadows, than simply hard shadows. It's the same shadows you see under the car whilst you drive but resolves better in motion, whilst everyone else on the grid has hard shadows on startup and lots of the environment shadows are hard. Yet, in TC2, the implementation is still a combo of hard and soft shadows, which is always ideal, because not all shadows should be hard edged.

So when I explained why I thought shadows were superior, by saying there are soft shadows in the game and there's a higher rate of shadow rendering, you brush it off.....which was eye-turning....You can't ask me why I think shadows are better and when I do, you say "why does that matter". It's exactly why it matters, because it's superior to what's in FH3 and if you think hard edge shadows are all, there are lots of those in TC2, sharp as a razor.....

Thanks, but the shadows don't bother me personally. I didn't intend to come across as complaining, just showing that they're not the flawless implementation a certain someone makes them out to be.

I never said they were perfect, I simply said that shadows are superior to the implementation in FH3, and this is especially eye-opening since this game is many moons bigger than FH3, with Driver San Francisco type snaps and transitions. Do you think a large open world like this which already offers better shadows would give you PCSS to resolve the artifacts you see, how would that be possible? Yet TC2 is already giving you a superior form of shadow rendering overall....

So you can make your arguments for Forza Horizon 3, it's something people do little of in this thread as of late, and simply resort to being butthurt or posting disingenous pics and the like, make a valid point and I'll engage...but you can't tell me you don't see the merits of what I'm saying here....This game is huge, it has some of the best water for such a huge game, maybe sound is outside of the scope of this thread, but it's really good in this title. To render all of this huge world with a good combo of soft and hard shadows, impressive water, nice lighting is really impressive. The only downside to TC2 atm is IQ due to the crappy FXAA, but hopefully more options become available and people can downsample from a higher rez.....AF seems to be something that if you force from the control panel gives you a neat IQ boost on textures and even grass......SSAO+ under the AO section on custom should be enabled just the same....


I'm pretty sure some patches are coming too, it's a UBI title afterall, but what they have here is impressive. And if anyone thinks I'm simply going after FH3 could not be more wrong, we're simply discussing the merits of different racers here. If you check some of my prior takes in other tech threads, you will realize that I have lots of respect for Ubisoft this gen. Pretty much all their titles have rock solid performance, nice tech and solid graphics.....Farcry primal, FC5, Watchdogs2, even watchdogs 1 on PC (that water), Assassin Creed Origins, The division (still solid after the downgrade with solid framerates) and even a huge game like this (TC2) is a solid 30fps on consoles.....They do good work and are clearly the most consistent Third party house this gen, they started a little shakey, but they have given a good account in terms of graphical quality+solid framerates till then....You can't deny their ambitions for this title over others like it, they even patched the first crew game to improve the visuals (lighting, general rendering etc)......So what's here in TC2 is impressive in comparison to other games like it. If Horizon is a better game, that's not the point here though (which is subjective anyway), this is about the tech.....and yet one thing that Jives with me in TC2 is the sense of speed, you get that right and I'm a fan, the sense of speed in TC2 is really good.....

 

[TheAdmiester]

Do you even read what you post? This is pretty damn disjointed even by your low standards.

Some fun highlights:

• "Some wavey shadows in a showroom" - Also known as direct, close-up proof of what I'm describing?
• "Shadows are superior to the implementation in FH3, and this is especially eye-opening since the game is many moons bigger than FH3" - You do realise that the game isn't rendering the entire map's shadows at once, right? The size of the game has almost nothing to do with it, both games will presumably render shadows up to very similar distances.
• "You say "why does that matter"" - Actually I didn't, not once. I questioned what your ramblings had to do with what I was presenting, which you have still yet to actually answer.
• "You don't see the merits of what I'm saying here" - You're right I don't, because there are no merits to what you're saying. When there are, I'll spot them.

Also, still waiting on you to at least list some positives about Forza.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

Do you even read what you post? This is pretty damn disjointed even by your low standards.

Some fun highlights:

• "Some wavey shadows in a showroom" - Also known as direct, close-up proof of what I'm describing?
• "Shadows are superior to the implementation in FH3, and this is especially eye-opening since the game is many moons bigger than FH3" - You do realise that the game isn't rendering the entire map's shadows at once, right? The size of the game has almost nothing to do with it, both games will presumably render shadows up to very similar distances.
• "You say "why does that matter"" - Actually I didn't, not once. I questioned what your ramblings had to do with what I was presenting, which you have still yet to actually answer.
• "You don't see the merits of what I'm saying here" - You're right I don't, because there are no merits to what you're saying. When there are, I'll spot them.

Also, still waiting on you to at least list some positives about Forza.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Also, still waiting on you to at least list some positives about Forza.

He did,
If Horizon is a better game, that's not the point here though (which is subjective anyway), this is about the tech

See, he said if. Then he went on to say it's subjective. That's about as close as you will get. He's goating you and everyone else to play his game because he has no interest in actual debates. It's pretty clear Forza Horizon 3 is one of the best racing games this generation so there is no need for validation from someone who sees the game as an Xbox/Windows title than how fun it is.

 

[TheAdmiester]

He did,
If Horizon is a better game, that's not the point here though (which is subjective anyway), this is about the tech

See, he said if. Then he went on to say it's subjective. That's about as close as you will get. He's goating you and everyone else to play his game because he has no interest in actual debates. It's pretty clear Forza Horizon 3 is one of the best racing games this generation so there is no need for validation from someone who sees the game as an Xbox/Windows title than how fun it is.

That's what I mean and was expecting. If he ever does compliment Forza, it's either backhanded (something like "Forza Motorsport has good shadows for a 60FPS game") or used with a comparison (like "Forza Horizon has good shadows but The Crew 2's are way better") - he can't face being "caught" simply complimenting the game ("Forza has good shadows" alone), there has to be something to balance it out.

The thing is though, there's no game to play here. I can very easily simply stop replying to any of his "points" until he comes back with a list.

And now to avoid any chance of a certain someone claiming hypocrisy - and to inject a bit of positivity - how about I do the same for the thread's main suspects?

The Crew 2

• Amazing paint shaders on cars
• Beautiful water tech
• Great quality screen space reflections
• Great volumetric light rays/fog
• (Not so much graphics but tech) World streaming is crazy, I can pan the map view across the entire game world and see only a tiny bit of pop-in when I first drop

GT Sport

• Tessellation essentially makes all small round edges perfect on car models
• Amazing lighting
• Something about the bloom and brightness adaptation just looks "right"
• Photo mode camera rendering is set up and behaves just like a real camera
• Car interior materials are staggering

Driveclub

• Weather effects - duh
• Volumetric clouds are an amazing touch
• Seemingly no pop-in and huge draw distances
• Photo mode rendering is great
• The little touches like the refraction of light through waxed headlights, simulated Rayleigh scattering, and the "flock of flamingoes" track stuff
• Lightning strikes are beautiful and immersive

Forza Horizon 3

• True dynamic Global Illumination makes things just sit right in the world
• Amazing headlight/brakelight shaders
• Amazing weather effects
• Some of the best gaming skies I've ever seen
• Great quality shadows

Forza Motorsport 7

• Weather effects are dramatic and beautiful
• Panning photo mode option is fantastic
• Alcantara shaders are unrivalled
• Great, sharp dynamic headlight shadows
• Amazing skies

 

[Louis Cyphre]

That's what I mean and was expecting. If he ever does compliment Forza, it's either backhanded (something like "Forza Motorsport has good shadows for a 60FPS game") or used with a comparison (like "Forza Horizon has good shadows but The Crew 2's are way better") - he can't face being "caught" simply complimenting the game ("Forza has good shadows" alone), there has to be something to balance it out.

The thing is though, there's no game to play here. I can very easily simply stop replying to any of his "points" until he comes back with a list.

And now to avoid any chance of a certain someone claiming hypocrisy - and to inject a bit of positivity - how about I do the same for the thread's main suspects?

The Crew 2

• Amazing paint shaders on cars
• Beautiful water tech
• Great quality screen space reflections
• Great volumetric light rays/fog
• (Not so much graphics but tech) World streaming is crazy, I can pan the map view across the entire game world and see only a tiny bit of pop-in when I first drop

GT Sport

• Tessellation essentially makes all small round edges perfect on car models
• Amazing lighting
• Something about the bloom and brightness adaptation just looks "right"
• Photo mode camera rendering is set up and behaves just like a real camera
• Car interior materials are staggering

Driveclub

• Weather effects - duh
• Volumetric clouds are an amazing touch
• Seemingly no pop-in and huge draw distances
• Photo mode rendering is great
• The little touches like the refraction of light through waxed headlights, simulated Rayleigh scattering, and the "flock of flamingoes" track stuff
• Lightning strikes are beautiful and immersive

Forza Horizon 3

• True dynamic Global Illumination makes things just sit right in the world
• Amazing headlight/brakelight shaders
• Amazing weather effects
• Some of the best gaming skies I've ever seen
• Great quality shadows

Forza Motorsport 7

• Weather effects are dramatic and beautiful
• Panning photo mode option is fantastic
• Alcantara shaders are unrivalled
• Great, sharp dynamic headlight shadows
• Amazing skies

I really question whether he plays any actual games. Most of the information he puts out there is from what's available. Ever notice none of it is his own experience? You can ask him for his PSN user ID until you are blue in the face, he's not here to make friends.

From what I've read The Crew 2's best thing is its sense of speed. Everything else is said to be a jack of all trades master of none. Better than the first game but still not in the exceptional category as some of those others are. I'm really looking forward to Forza Horizon 4. I just think they nailed the fun factor with the franchise and on a technical level it really does look to trump the last one, which was already impressive.

 

[Munhon]

Great stuff in this thread, and funny users too...

A future competitor (right now it's only pre-alpha footage), enjoy:

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Great stuff in this thread, and funny users too...

A future competitor (right now it's only pre-alpha footage), enjoy:

Looks wild. Is that running on the Xbox One X or a PC with an Xbox One controller? I have Assetto Corsa on the pc and it is very difficult but also very realistic. I play it in VR as well. This looks better than Project Cars 2. I remember this track as well in Forza 7 but on Forza 7 there is an area as you go up the hill that if timed right you can cut but I see in this one they have the area blocked off.

I really recommend getting a wheel. I have a Thrustmaster Ferarri with the 3 pedal design.

 

[thelastword]

Do you even read what you post? This is pretty damn disjointed even by your low standards.

Some fun highlights:

• "Some wavey shadows in a showroom" - Also known as direct, close-up proof of what I'm describing?
• "Shadows are superior to the implementation in FH3, and this is especially eye-opening since the game is many moons bigger than FH3" - You do realise that the game isn't rendering the entire map's shadows at once, right? The size of the game has almost nothing to do with it, both games will presumably render shadows up to very similar distances.
• "You say "why does that matter"" - Actually I didn't, not once. I questioned what your ramblings had to do with what I was presenting, which you have still yet to actually answer.
• "You don't see the merits of what I'm saying here" - You're right I don't, because there are no merits to what you're saying. When there are, I'll spot them.

Also, still waiting on you to at least list some positives about Forza.

So in essence you have nothing......expected really...


Still, you try to summarize and you still can't get it......So let me make it simple, in future I'll consider doing so for your sake....Here it is, since this is what you challenged......

Soft shadows are more expensive, TC2 has soft shadows,....TC2 also has the hard shadows you like in abundance at full rez.....The combination of soft and hard shadows is always ideal and superior.....TC2 renders a higher peak of shadows at higher quality. Watch the game in motion instead of playing the showroom. I know lots of you play showrooms and pics, hence why I posted 5 gameplay vids, not showroom gifs. So if you have nothing, just say nothing instead of dilly-dallying or asking me to post things that have no business in this thread. This is a faceoff thread, if you want to list 5 great things about Forza Horizon, do so in the OT or make a "5 great things about Forza Horizon 3" thread...

Great stuff in this thread, and funny users too...

A future competitor (right now it's only pre-alpha footage), enjoy:

The first one had a great driving feel, the graphics were not so hot, especially textures and IQ, (AF, AA) and some assets....This one is not revolutionary in graphics, but you can't contest that it's a nice playing racer on consoles, moreso than Project Cars...

 

[TheAdmiester]

I really question whether he plays any actual games. Most of the information he puts out there is from what's available. Ever notice none of it is his own experience? You can ask him for his PSN user ID until you are blue in the face, he's not here to make friends.

From what I've read The Crew 2's best thing is its sense of speed. Everything else is said to be a jack of all trades master of none. Better than the first game but still not in the exceptional category as some of those others are. I'm really looking forward to Forza Horizon 4. I just think they nailed the fun factor with the franchise and on a technical level it really does look to trump the last one, which was already impressive.

If I'm being honest I don't think TC2 has that much sense of speed. I feel that a lot of the roads are a bit too wide to feel any risk and you also miss a bit of that "wow, everything is close by and moving by so fast" as a result.

I'd say that, for me personally, its highlights are the huge open world, visuals, and the customisation of cars. It's one of the few games I know of where the interior trim and colour of a car can be set, as well as having OEM rims available for some cars and a shitload of aero parts. So far the only car I've seen lacking any visual customisation was (I think) the Maserati Gran Turismo. The rest of the game is pretty spot on though. Besides the story I'd say it works nicely as a Test Drive Unlimited 3.

So in essence you have nothing......expected really...


Still, you try to summarize and you still can't get it......So let me make it simple, in future I'll consider doing so for your sake....Here it is, since this is what you challenged......

Soft shadows are more expensive, TC2 has soft shadows,....TC2 also has the hard shadows you like in abundance at full rez.....The combination of soft and hard shadows is always ideal and superior.....TC2 renders a higher peak of shadows at higher quality. Watch the game in motion instead of playing the showroom. I know lots of you play showrooms and pics, hence why I posted 5 gameplay vids, not showroom gifs. So if you have nothing, just say nothing instead of dilly-dallying or asking me to post things that have no business in this thread. This is a faceoff thread, if you want to list 5 great things about Forza Horizon, do so in the OT or make a "5 great things about Forza Horizon 3" thread...

Yet another deflection, except this time with some painful irony with the good ol' "you have nothing". I especially like how you're trying to imply that me showing the shadow issue in the showroom is somehow invalid because it's not out in the open world. It's still part of the game's graphics, and as I clearly already stated, it's the easiest way to highlight it. Is it that hard for you to understand that these issues happen in the open world and that the flat planar surfaces of the showroom are simply the easiest way to replicate and highlight it? Actually, scratch that, I know the answer is yes.

Also, it's a bit rich seeing you trying to handwave valid points as things that have no business in this thread, because it's abundantly clear that you have no business in this thread.

EDIT: I will add one thing to this, and since experience with the games themselves is vitally important in face-offs and comparisons, there's absolutely no reason it should be dismissed as "having no business in this thread" - how many hours have you logged in Horizon 3 and The Crew 2?

 

[Turk1993]

Looks wild. Is that running on the Xbox One X or a PC with an Xbox One controller? I have Assetto Corsa on the pc and it is very difficult but also very realistic. I play it in VR as well. This looks better than Project Cars 2. I remember this track as well in Forza 7 but on Forza 7 there is an area as you go up the hill that if timed right you can cut but I see in this one they have the area blocked off.

I really recommend getting a wheel. I have a Thrustmaster Ferarri with the 3 pedal design.

This game is exclusive to pc. Thats the reason why they push the graphics and physics much further than anything on console right now.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

This game is exclusive to pc. Thats the reason why they push the graphics and physics much further than anything on console right now.

If they decide to offer VR as well my pc will probably crap out. Definitely check it out though.

If I'm being honest I don't think TC2 has that much sense of speed. I feel that a lot of the roads are a bit too wide to feel any risk and you also miss a bit of that "wow, everything is close by and moving by so fast" as a result.

I'd say that, for me personally, its highlights are the huge open world, visuals, and the customisation of cars. It's one of the few games I know of where the interior trim and colour of a car can be set, as well as having OEM rims available for some cars and a shitload of aero parts. So far the only car I've seen lacking any visual customisation was (I think) the Maserati Gran Turismo. The rest of the game is pretty spot on though. Besides the story I'd say it works nicely as a Test Drive Unlimited 3.

I was going to preorder the game but I have so many racing titles now and with Forza Horizon 4 coming it's likely I will hold off for now. Looks fun though and I think it would be cool to drive across state to see how accurate things are.

 

[Turk1993]

If they decide to offer VR as well my pc will probably crap out. Definitely check it out though.



I was going to preorder the game but I have so many racing titles now and with Forza Horizon 4 coming it's likely I will hold off for now. Looks fun though and I think it would be cool to drive across state to see how accurate things are.

I have the same feeling as you. I want to buy it but have too many racing games right now GTS, Driveclub, Forza 7, FH3, PC2, Asseto Corsa and waiting for FH4. But it looks really fun and a great improvement over the first game. Also the physics looks still too floaty like the first game, wich was one of the worst driving physics i had played.

 

[TheAdmiester]

If they decide to offer VR as well my pc will probably crap out. Definitely check it out though.



I was going to preorder the game but I have so many racing titles now and with Forza Horizon 4 coming it's likely I will hold off for now. Looks fun though and I think it would be cool to drive across state to see how accurate things are.

Basically as with any game set in a real place, every city is kind of a condensed best-of, with their famous landmarks and streets condensed into a few city blocks. New York City and Los Angeles are decently big, but a few such as San Francisco feel like they're a bit too small. Overall the sense of scale is still great, it's fun cruising long distance and seeing the landscape and scenery gradually change as you go from one area to another.

As far as I know the map is actually missing some landmarks that were present in The Crew 1, people are speculating that the licence holders for certain buildings were a little more nervous about having their buildings in the game due to the presence of planes.

 

[Turk1993]

Basically as with any game set in a real place, every city is kind of a condensed best-of, with their famous landmarks and streets condensed into a few city blocks. New York City and Los Angeles are decently big, but a few such as San Francisco feel like they're a bit too small. Overall the sense of scale is still great, it's fun cruising long distance and seeing the landscape and scenery gradually change as you go from one area to another.

As far as I know the map is actually missing some landmarks that were present in The Crew 1, people are speculating that the licence holders for certain buildings were a little more nervous about having their buildings in the game due to the presence of planes.

Did you played the first game, if yes, how does the driving feel in 2 compared to the first one.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Did you played the first game, if yes, how does the driving feel in 2 compared to the first one.

Much better. The two main flaws from the first which are still present are mostly related to jumping - the gravity is too strong and pulls you down way fast, and the car's suspension doesn't really compress, you just land flat without bouncing. In terms of actual driving it feels so much better. I can't really describe the problem with the first one but it kind of felt like the sensitivity was always wrong no matter how much I tweaked it. This time around it's still very arcadey but a lot more enjoyable.

 

[Turk1993]

Much better. The two main flaws from the first which are still present are mostly related to jumping - the gravity is too strong and pulls you down way fast, and the car's suspension doesn't really compress, you just land flat without bouncing. In terms of actual driving it feels so much better. I can't really describe the problem with the first one but it kind of felt like the sensitivity was always wrong no matter how much I tweaked it. This time around it's still very arcadey but a lot more enjoyable.

Thnx, yeah the jumping was anoying because you go 215mph and you expect to fly of the ramps, but it was pulling you down no matter what speed you where going. But im glad they improved the driving, i might buy it.

 

[Jamesways]

Haven't posted on here in forever, and man, this is fun reading to come back to. But Forza vs GT vs TC2, bah!
Let's talk about the real debate, MotoGP 18 vs. TT Isle of Man!
How about that use of the Unreal engine in MotoGP, huh? Ha? Hmm?
Trackside details are meh, but man, those on board views and wet/rain stages, pretty huge step up.


No one?
Ok, back to Forza vs GT.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Haven't posted on here in forever, and man, this is fun reading to come back to. But Forza vs GT vs TC2, bah!
Let's talk about the real debate, MotoGP 18 vs. TT Isle of Man!
How about that use of the Unreal engine in MotoGP, huh? Ha? Hmm?
Trackside details are meh, but man, those on board views and wet/rain stages, pretty huge step up.


No one?
Ok, back to Forza vs GT.

In my case I've never played any of the bike games, and I'm not the type of person to rip on a game I've never played

 

[Jamesways]

Me either, I went PS4 this gen after owning 5 360s last gen. Haven't played a Forza or been in a Forza thread in a long time. The skies in FH3 look absolutely insane, and I really like what I've seen from the weather in F7.
FH4 will be a real graphics showcase for sure.

I am really impressed with GT Sport, the lighting is so damn convincing. I enjoy Project Cars, but playing both back to back, GTS still wows me, especially since I got a Pro and a 4K tv.

MotoGP has it's ups and downs, it's the first year with using the new engine, so they had to make sacrifices on console, back down to 30fps, trackside and other details are a bit rough, there's an overuse of blur,, but the lighting and shaders are so much better. It's finally the first MotoGP that looks less like a videogame. Rain stages are almost DC level of realism looking. They're working on patches currently to smooth out some graphics issues, it has more problems on Xbox currently. The retooled physics are great though.

Graphics have really come a long way, and the next batch of games will be even more realistic.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Me either, I went PS4 this gen after owning 5 360s last gen. Haven't played a Forza or been in a Forza thread in a long time. The skies in FH3 look absolutely insane, and I really like what I've seen from the weather in F7.
FH4 will be a real graphics showcase for sure.

I am really impressed with GT Sport, the lighting is so damn convincing. I enjoy Project Cars, but playing both back to back, GTS still wows me, especially since I got a Pro and a 4K tv.

MotoGP has it's ups and downs, it's the first year with using the new engine, so they had to make sacrifices on console, back down to 30fps, trackside and other details are a bit rough, there's an overuse of blur,, but the lighting and shaders are so much better. It's finally the first MotoGP that looks less like a videogame. Rain stages are almost DC level of realism looking. They're working on patches currently to smooth out some graphics issues, it has more problems on Xbox currently. The retooled physics are great though.

Graphics have really come a long way, and the next batch of games will be even more realistic.

That's the only problem I really have with a lot of modern racing games. Most of them have shifted over to PBR implementations which is great, but with it (especially in those using Unreal Engine 4) comes a hefty amount of TAA, which itself comes with awful ghosting and a general blurred look. I've mainly noticed it in GT Sport's interiors and The Crew 2, but games using UE4 such as Gravel and now AC Competizione exhibit a lot of ghosting too. I don't mind it so much when it's an option as I can simply turn it off and downsample the game, but when it's forced it legitimately makes me like the game less. Hopefully in AC:C it's toggleable.

It makes me torn, because on the one hand I think that we shouldn't have shifted to the more intensive PBR approach until hardware could handle it with real AA, but on the other hand some of the games just look too good to pass up.

 

[Three]

That's the only problem I really have with a lot of modern racing games. Most of them have shifted over to PBR implementations which is great, but with it (especially in those using Unreal Engine 4) comes a hefty amount of TAA, which itself comes with awful ghosting and a general blurred look. I've mainly noticed it in GT Sport's interiors and The Crew 2, but games using UE4 such as Gravel and now AC Competizione exhibit a lot of ghosting too. I don't mind it so much when it's an option as I can simply turn it off and downsample the game, but when it's forced it legitimately makes me like the game less. Hopefully in AC:C it's toggleable.

It makes me torn, because on the one hand I think that we shouldn't have shifted to the more intensive PBR approach until hardware could handle it with real AA, but on the other hand some of the games just look too good to pass up.

GT sport doesnt use TAA. It uses MSAA. PBR also does not force use of temporal anti-aliasing or any form of AA. PBR is a material workflow which defines things like roughness, metallic, normals etc. It's completely independent from things like AA though if you have high frequency specular reflections then the need for any form of AA increases.

 

[TheAdmiester]

GT sport doesnt use TAA. It uses MSAA. PBR also does not force use of temporal anti-aliasing or any form of AA. PBR is a material workflow which defines things like roughness, metallic, normals etc. It's completely independent from things like AA though if you have high frequency specular reflections then the need for any form of AA increases.

GTS itself doesn't use TAA but I said the interiors do, or more specifically the interior gauges. You can see it on digital speedometers in the way the numbers do that weird blurry "fade" instead of just instantly switching to the next number. Also, I never said that PBR was linked to any AA, I meant that the increased rendering overhead seems to require cheaper AA methods, hence that with PBR tends to come a hefty amount of TAA.

 

[Dontero]

GTS itself doesn't use TAA but I said the interiors do, or more specifically the interior gauges. You can see it on digital speedometers in the way the numbers do that weird blurry "fade" instead of just instantly switching to the next number. Also, I never said that PBR was linked to any AA, I meant that the increased rendering overhead seems to require cheaper AA methods, hence that with PBR tends to come a hefty amount of TAA.

MSAA or TAA has nothing to do with how numbers on gauges change.

PBR has nothing to do with MSAA or TAA speed. While it is not completely free it isn't expensive as something like shadows which are far more costly than PBR.

 

[TheAdmiester]

MSAA or TAA has nothing to do with how numbers on gauges change.

PBR has nothing to do with MSAA or TAA speed. While it is not completely free it isn't expensive as something like shadows which are far more costly than PBR.

Maybe it isn't TAA because there's no way to know without official confirmation, but it has the exact effect of TAA for sure. The only two other games I've seen it on are Gravel and The Crew 2 which have strong TAA artefacts.

And how does it have nothing to do with it? Something that increases the hardware requirements of a game is obviously going to have to have cuts made in other places for the sake of performance. MSAA is expensive, so naturally you'd think a dev would go to this first when trying to narrow down frame times. How is it not related?

 

[Dontero]

Maybe it isn't TAA because there's no way to know without official confirmation, but it has the exact effect of TAA for sure. The only two other games I've seen it on are Gravel and The Crew 2 which have strong TAA artefacts.

TAA nor any kind of AA makes ghosting artifacts. Faulty AA either has problems "finding" something to smooth out or just does it on things that don't make sense like UI. Other issue is quality of smoothing.

And how does it have nothing to do with it?

Because PBR is one of the least expensive things on your menu when you have things like shadow resolution completely dwarfing PBR price. You just picked randomly something to justify your point. Maybe you heard before something about some kind of tech making harder using MSAA but you didn't know what so you put random piece of tech.

MSAA got expensive because all engines now do deffered rendering. MSAA is expensive since 2006-2008 when most games switched engines from forward to deffered ones. These days most of engines use Forward+ but it doesn't fix MSAA price issue which is why most of engines use other methods like TAA, MLAA and other.

 

[TheAdmiester]

TAA nor any kind of AA makes ghosting artifacts. Faulty AA either has problems "finding" something to smooth out or just does it on things that don't make sense like UI. Other issue is quality of smoothing.

The rest of your post I'll concede on (although I don't appreciate the tone) because of my limited understanding of AA, but TAA definitely has ghosting issues. Check out the default UE4 implementation on the left of this image.

And in Assetto Corsa Competizione where you can see a silhouette of the Ferrari's diffuser cutting into the motion blur:

Every UE4 game I've played has noticeable ghosting exactly like this and it's only when TAA is present. Making your own UE4 project and switching the renderer to the MSAA-supported one immediately removes the ghosting.

 

[Turk1993]

The rest of your post I'll concede on (although I don't appreciate the tone) because of my limited understanding of AA, but TAA definitely has ghosting issues. Check out the default UE4 implementation on the left of this image.

And in Assetto Corsa Competizione where you can see a silhouette of the Ferrari's diffuser cutting into the motion blur:

Every UE4 game I've played has noticeable ghosting exactly like this and it's only when TAA is present. Making your own UE4 project and switching the renderer to the MSAA-supported one immediately removes the ghosting.

Yeah i noticed that to last night when i played GTS, its mostly noticable when the windscreen wipers are active. I don't know if its because of CB or the AA implementation.

 

[Three]

GTS itself doesn't use TAA but I said the interiors do, or more specifically the interior gauges. You can see it on digital speedometers in the way the numbers do that weird blurry "fade" instead of just instantly switching to the next number. Also, I never said that PBR was linked to any AA, I meant that the increased rendering overhead seems to require cheaper AA methods, hence that with PBR tends to come a hefty amount of TAA.

GTS uses 8xMSAA everywhere. No TAA anywhere. The interiors might use motion blur on rev counters and windscreen wipers though since 60fps isn't enough. A windscreen wiper can travel across the entire screen in less than a second so adding motion blur would be wise to smooth that out. Nothing to do with TAA though and certainly nothing to do with PBR.

 

[Jamesways]

The ghosting and blur is the biggest complaint people have on MotoGP. It's sometimes pretty extreme.

Love the technical talk, way over my head but learning something at least.

To me lighting makes the biggest difference in attaining realism. For example, MotoGP 17 has super crisp IQ, but it definitely has that oversaturated almost cartoonish videogame look from the lighting. I'm glad they made the switch to a better lighting engine.
Man, I can't wait for the next gen graphics.

Do you think Forza 8 will be a Xbox One or next system title?

 

[TheAdmiester]

GTS uses 8xMSAA everywhere. No TAA anywhere. The interiors might use motion blur on rev counters and windscreen wipers though since 60fps isn't enough. A windscreen wiper can travel across the entire screen in less than a second so adding motion blur would be wise to smooth that out. Nothing to do with TAA though and certainly nothing to do with PBR.

8xMSAA on base PS4? Are you sure about that? Also, the windscreen wiper effect is definitely ghosting and not motion blur. Motion blur is more fine and grainy in GTS' implementation whereas the ghosting is clearly just duplicates of the wiper.

And again, I didn't once say that PBR had any direct link to AA, I said that TAA is used because it's cheaper and alleviates some of the added resource drain.

 

[ShadierRook7561]

I think Forza 8 will be, with Halo 6, the last first-party titles on the Xbox One.

 

[TheAdmiester]

I think Forza 8 will be, with Halo 6, the last first-party titles on the Xbox One.

Agreed. I think with Forza Horizon being the better graphical showcase of the series, Forza Motorsport 8 will hit the Xbox One last while Horizon 5 will either be cross-gen again or exclusive to the new one.

 

[Munhon]

This game is exclusive to pc. Thats the reason why they push the graphics and physics much further than anything on console right now.

They use UE 4.0 now, so in the future is quite sure to see console versions. Right now is only Pc because it will be an "early access" videogame, pre-alpha state. If the first AC had, this time will be easier for Kunos do that versions...

Here comes a new challenger!!! Forza Horizon 4

 

[Turk1993]

They use UE 4.0 now, so in the future is quite sure to see console versions. Right now is only Pc because it will be an "early access" videogame, pre-alpha state. If the first AC had, this time will be easier for Kunos do that versions...

Here comes a new challenger!!! Forza Horizon 4

Yeah but they said they want to go all out on pc with this title. The physics and the graphics they want to achieve is not possible on console right now without downgrading too much. The game looks really good even in pre alpha, can't wait to see how it will look when its finished. And for FH4, its a givin that its gonna be the new king. All they had to do was improve the interior shaders like Forza 7 wich they did, add dynamic shadows wich they did, improve the foliage even more wich they did and improve the road relfections wich they also did. They even improved the lighting even further wich was one of the best, now with the seasons you get all types of different lighting condition wich looks unique and life like. Also everything is dynamic like street lights casting shadows of the cars and such wich is crazy for such a game, they even add deformable mud just like the snow.

 

[Turk1993]

8xMSAA on base PS4? Are you sure about that? Also, the windscreen wiper effect is definitely ghosting and not motion blur. Motion blur is more fine and grainy in GTS' implementation whereas the ghosting is clearly just duplicates of the wiper.

And again, I didn't once say that PBR had any direct link to AA, I said that TAA is used because it's cheaper and alleviates some of the added resource drain.

yeah its definitely not motion blur cuz its in 1800CB mode, so there is no motion blur.

 

[Hage Kamo]

Yeah i noticed that to last night when i played GTS, its mostly noticable when the windscreen wipers are active. I don't know if its because of CB or the AA implementation.

Will not rain on windows?

 

[Hage Kamo]

Yeah but they said they want to go all out on pc with this title. The physics and the graphics they want to achieve is not possible on console right now without downgrading too much. The game looks really good even in pre alpha, can't wait to see how it will look when its finished. And for FH4, its a givin that its gonna be the new king. All they had to do was improve the interior shaders like Forza 7 wich they did, add dynamic shadows wich they did, improve the foliage even more wich they did and improve the road relfections wich they also did. They even improved the lighting even further wich was one of the best, now with the seasons you get all types of different lighting condition wich looks unique and life like. Also everything is dynamic like street lights casting shadows of the cars and such wich is crazy for such a game, they even add deformable mud just like the snow.

I can not wait to see the evolution from FH 3!!

 

[Insane Metal]

FH always looks lovely.

 

[Journey]

Yeah but they said they want to go all out on pc with this title. The physics and the graphics they want to achieve is not possible on console right now without downgrading too much. The game looks really good even in pre alpha, can't wait to see how it will look when its finished. And for FH4, its a givin that its gonna be the new king. All they had to do was improve the interior shaders like Forza 7 wich they did, add dynamic shadows wich they did, improve the foliage even more wich they did and improve the road relfections wich they also did. They even improved the lighting even further wich was one of the best, now with the seasons you get all types of different lighting condition wich looks unique and life like. Also everything is dynamic like street lights casting shadows of the cars and such wich is crazy for such a game, they even add deformable mud just like the snow.

Sounds insane!

 

[sigrad]

They use UE 4.0 now, so in the future is quite sure to see console versions. Right now is only Pc because it will be an "early access" videogame, pre-alpha state. If the first AC had, this time will be easier for Kunos do that versions...

Here comes a new challenger!!! Forza Horizon 4

Autumn looks so fucking gorgeous in FH4

 

[Turk1993]

Will not rain on windows?

It rains but not much, there are like 10 droplets at most. And there are no droplets on cars, only on the windshield.

 

[Monad]

Man, they must be a hard times to be a closed-mind GT fanboy after seeing that FH4 gifs and FH3 crystal clear ingame shots and couldn't be able to counteract them (other than throw up bullshit).

Savage.

 

[GTR R35_Supra RZ]

Man, they must be a hard times to be a closed-mind GT fanboy after seeing that FH4 gifs and FH3 crystal clear ingame shots and couldn't be able to counteract them (other than throw up bullshit).

Savage.

Rekt, they got no more ammunition, only blanks and fanboy weak ass console warrior punch lines..that's it, besides, some of these delusional fools have no Xbox X nor seen a daylight of any of the Forza series running in the living room.

 

[Monad]

Rekt, they got no more ammunition, only blanks and fanboy weak ass console warrior punch lines..that's it, besides, some of these delusional fools have no Xbox X nor seen a daylight of any of the Forza series running in the living room.

The funniest part is when the vast majority of critics to GT:S and DriveClub come from people who actually have both consoles (or PS4 and PC) and not only consider FM7/FH3 superior, but also post their own GT:S/DriveClub shots in order to compare and reinforce their arguments.

That's when I begin to question not only the intelligence of these fanboys in this thread, but also their dignity, because it's a public rape in everyone's eyes who doesn't have a blindfold.

In another vein, the latest car pack of FM7 looks great (and evidence another point where the saga has no competition):

 

[Dener]

Forza Horizon 4 it's beautiful

 

[Vtecomega]

GT sport is strange, in 1080p mode the game has more visual effects such as motion blur and backfires but the IQ is garbage, on the other hand the 4k mode obviously looks sharper but looks sterile and boring as hell.

What visual settings do people recommend?

 

[Vtecomega]

Man, they must be a hard times to be a closed-mind GT fanboy after seeing that FH4 gifs and FH3 crystal clear ingame shots and couldn't be able to counteract them (other than throw up bullshit).

Savage.

I am hardcore gt fan and I think gt sport looks like crap. Lighting model looks ok on a handful of tracks, AA is awful, shadows are pixelated and car reflections are smudged. I don't understand the hype.