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[Somnid]

I saw this backfire coming a mile away. GAF hates good games.

 

[Peru]

I just don't get why it's such a mindfuck when there is backtracking in a 3d game compared to a 2d game. If that's his only excuse (and that seems to be it), that's a pretty weak excuse if you ask me.

Backtracking in Prime is such a joy, every game mechanic is fun and all the environments beautiful and replayable. The enemies respawning makes for an ever-lasting flow and rhythm to the game - like a level from a Mario platformer the transportation itself is half the joy.

 

[Death_Born]

…the reason that I haven’t gotten further in “Metroid Prime 3″ is that because while the game does many, many terrific and admirable things, “Metroid” is a franchise that should never have made the jump from 2-D third-person to 3-D first-person.

*babycrying.gif*

Are you freaking serious? That's like saying "Mario or Zelda should have never been made into 3D."

Metroid Prime = Best game ever, and Metroid Prime 3 is a good improvement on MP2. This is the same argument that has been made throughout time: I can't beat this game, so it sucks.:lol

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Worthless.

 

[Crushed]

3d Metroid does not feel like Metroid, doesnt mean its not good.

I actually thought they felt a LOT like 2D Metroid, especially Prime 3 for some reason (weird, I know).

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

N'gai is a wonderful person and his breath is as fresh as a summer ham.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I just don't get why it's such a mindfuck when there is backtracking in a 3d game compared to a 2d game. If that's his only excuse (and that seems to be it), that's a pretty weak excuse if you ask me.

Backtracking is lazy game design, and taking the snail express Samus likes to travel on, it's even more annoying. It wouldn't be bad if she had a super-sprint mode or something. *looks at Metroid Prime case* *shakes head* WTF did I even buy this turd? PEACE.

 

[Acosta]

It's true. Rational thinkers and Metroid fans will agree on this.
I've written so many 'essays' on Metroid Prime, both casually on here and study-related, that I can't be bothered to repeat the many things Metroid Prime does to make it a unique game in videogame history, but suffice to say N'Gai is wrong and doesn't back up his nostalgia-driven thoughts with anything.

Absolutely not. Metroid Prime in 3D doesn´t arrive to the level of mastery, level design and other values achieved by Super Metroid in 2D.

And I like, a lot, Prime, but is not a better game.

 

[Frillen]

I don't know what he smoke but the Primes series is one of the best 3D franshises out on the market. End of story.

 

[BocoDragon]

I kind of agree, in that I want more 2D Metroids and they could easily have done that and made this into new IP instead.

didn't they?

Metroid Prime

Metroid 4

 

[Oblivion]

Damn, this thread is growing slower than expected.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I would like to turn GAF's attention to his amazing dreds. Lets talk about those.

 

[The Hermit]

While the gameplay of all Prime games are excellent, the only game that had the complete fell of a Metroid game, was Metroid Prime. The others had some aspects, but introduced too many new ones...

Still i don't know how Metroid games should envolve for now.

 

[Draft]

The only thing Super holds over Prime are an excellent end game (the whole Metroid vs. Mother Brain, the escape sequence, the stupid animals escaping with you) and arguably the sound track. Otherwise prime stomps it. STOMPS IT.

3D platforming > 2D platforming
3D morph balling > 2D morph balling
Having to switch weapons > uber weapon

FACT: Exploring an alien world with that banging ass visor interface is so much more gratifying than moving a little cartoon around on the screen.

Just embrace the truth. Metroid Prime is right up there with Mario 64. It took a game that was great as 2D, and made it better as 3D.

All hail.

 

[madara]

Obviously there seems to be enough division or interest that two lines would likely have been profitable and offered two different things.

 

[USD]

Full link for those who want to read it:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/leve...oshock-and-metroid-prime-3-round-3-fight.aspx

Of course, all of my ideas could simply founder on BioShock's somewhat controversial save system, which privileges completing the game over genuinely frustrating challenges, at least on normal difficulty. But enough about BioShock. Allow me to dig into Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, or, at the very least, slice off a little piece of the "assignments" that you've given me, Professor.

You said that you hoped that I'd gotten further than 10 percent of the way through Metroid Prime 3. I have! I'm now 18 percent of the way into the game. It's not quite a passing grade, Teach, I know. But the dog ate my Wiimote I have reasons. I could say that it's because my Wii is in my office rather than in my Crown Heights apartment, but the last two games that I beat--BioShock and Halo 3--were finished in an office building (2K's, around midnight on a Friday, after they forgot to kick me out) and in a midtown hotel (where Bungie's Luke Smith watched us finish the fight on co-op heroic). No, the reason that I haven't gotten further in Metroid Prime 3 is that because while the game does many, many terrific and admirable things, Metroid is a franchise that should never have made the jump from 2-D third-person to 3-D first-person.

(I am Stephen's raging bile duct.)

I love 2-D Metroid. Not the classics, because I was a latecomer to games. But I played the Game Boy Advance titles Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission from beginning to end and had an absolute blast. The look, the moody music, the sense of solitude as Samus goes about her mission, the thrilling sense of empowerment-yes, Mr. Blow, I said it: empowerment--as you not only acquire new weapons and abilities, but the "aha" that goes off as you remember that area that you couldn't get to before, realizing that, yep, now you can, and backtracking to that area to proceed to the next mysterious area of the game. Having only gotten seriously into games in 1999, I haven't played nearly as many 2-D side scrollers as you have, but for my money, those two Metroids are not only among the best of their kind, they're two of the very best games I've played.

Retro Studios deserves every bit of praise for its yeoman's work in transforming the Metroid experience into 3-D first-person. But for me--and I fully realize this is something of a minority opinion--I've always believed that there was something fundamentally misguided about the decision to rebirth Metroid in this manner. The mechanics that are at the heart of Metroid, most notably backtracking and scouring the environment for hidden passages, don't translate well to first-person gaming. I'm generally not a fan of backtracking in 3-D games, but that goes double for first-person shooters. (Yes, I know that the Metroid Prime series has been described as first-person adventures.) When I play an FPS, there are two cues I use to determine whether I'm headed in the right direction: if I see enemies ahead, or if I see a new area. It's all about forward movement, so having to backtrack throws me off completely.

With the 2-D Metroid, I could much more easily maintain a mental map of where I'd been, so backtracking wasn't a problem. And if I ever got lost, there was a simple one-to-one visual correspondence with the games map. The 3-D Metroid Prime, unfortunately, compounds my backtracking difficulties with its 3-D map, which you yourself acknowledge is confusing in our first Vs. Mode Gaiden. And since Metroid is about steadily developing one's mastery over an environment that is not completely navigable at the start, Retro couldn't simply eliminate backtracking and design the game around a simple proceed from point A to point B. The end result is two great tastes that don't quite taste great together.

(I am Stephen's mournful sorrow.)

You also asked me about the controls. I've never had a problem with FPS controls on a console, so I'm not prepared to declare, as did our friend Chris Kohler, that it "reinvents the FPS control scheme for the better." I will say that the "advanced controls," where you can lock the camera perspective and look around freely, works well, and that it creates a reasonable facsimile of a mouse and keyboard. It's still not as precise, however, and the game did occasionally lose track of where I was pointing. Some of the gestural controls worked well (throwing out my nunchuk arm and pulling it back for the grappling hook; flicking my Wiimote hand up and down to make the morph ball jump) and others were just okay (rotating knobs, pumping pumps and pressing buttons.) I didn't find any of it a great leap forward in immersion, but it offered some nice things as far as control, and I could see this becoming the gold standard for Wii FPS games.

The button layout, however, was another matter entirely. Firing and jumping worked just fine; I briefly debated switching them around, since the default scheme puts jumping on the trigger, but since the idea didn't cross my mind until I'd already been playing for 30 minutes, I decided against it. Lock-on and morph ball on the nunchuk also worked well. But I wasn't happy with the use of the plus and minus buttons for Hypermode activation and visor switching, nor the D-pad for missiles. And it's clear from the way that Retro was forced to stack missile types rather than allow missile switching as they had in previous entries that they struggled with the Wiimote's limited layout. You asked me what I thought they should have done. I think they should have taken a page from Wii Play as well as Nintendo's own recent history and shipped their own Wiimote with the game; one that sported kidney-shaped plus and minus buttons around the A button, like the X and Y buttons on the Gamecube controller. I know you'll agree with me.

(I am Stephen's utter disbelief.)

That said, Metroid Prime 3 may well be the best art directed game of the year. And that's saying something, considering BioShock's astonishingly realized, is-it-really-real-son sense of place. If I do finish Metroid Prime 3--I know you're skeptical, but with GameFAQs at my side, I just may surprise you--it will be because of the game's visuals. You urged me to get my ass off of the planet Bryyo, where I'd gotten stuck a few times, and onto SkyTown, Elysia where I am now. Boy, were you ever right. From soaring high above the planet on the zip lines, watching the sunlight bouncing off the rolling clouds to the various classes of robots rolling, hovering and shuffling their way through the level, I hereby declare that while the subtitle for Metroid Prime 3 may be Corruption, it shall henceforth be named Metroid Prime 3: Ocular Masturbation. An important part of the joy of playing games is the shock of the new, and the art direction here is propelling me to keep fitfully exploring when a couple of the game's mechanics are having the opposite effect.

Did I forget anything? Oh yeah, boss battles.

(I am Stephen's finite patience.)

All right, all right. I'll talk about that next time.

Cheers,

N'Gai

 

[Peru]

N'Gai has always seemed reasonable and there's nothing personal in this; but I'm sick of the detractors regurgitating weak con arguments, it's a pretty shitty trend as far as game backlashes go. Metroid Prime is the best 3D conversion of any Nintendo series and the best 3D action adventure game made.

 

[Kiriku]

I would like to turn GAF's attention to his amazing dreds. Lets talk about those.

metroid dr... oh wait

 

[ZealousD]

Fusion was criminally underrated by so many purists. It had lots of interesting and new stuff, and was a whole lot of fun.

I'm no purist, but even I'd agree that Zero Mission and Fusion aren't on the same level as Super. They aren't as atmospheric, their respective soundtracks aren't as memorable, and they each have a couple criminal design flaws. Fusion is waaaay too linear and strict in its pacing, and Zero Mission is too easy. They're still incredible though, just near the bottom in quality for the series.

 

[Acosta]

The only thing Super holds over Prime are an excellent end game (the whole Metroid vs. Mother Brain, the escape sequence, the stupid animals escaping with you) and arguably the sound track. Otherwise prime stomps it. STOMPS IT.

3D platforming > 2D platforming
3D morph balling > 2D morph balling
Having to switch weapons > uber weapon

FACT: Exploring an alien world with that banging ass visor interface is so much more gratifying than moving a little cartoon around on the screen.

Just embrace the truth. Metroid Prime is right up there with Mario 64. It took a game that was great as 2D, and made it better as 3D.

All hail.

3D platforming > 2D platforming?

You must be joking.

 

[Haunted]

Metroid Prime is a better game than Super Metroid.

It hurts to say at first, but then you come to accept it.

.

 

[jarrod]

<3 <3 N'Gai. I totally take back all those bad things I said about him.

I'm currently thinking Prime 3 > Prime > Fusion/Zero Mission/Super Metroid (can't decide which is better) > Prime 2 > a bag of rusty nails > Metroid.

Oh, me me!

Super > Fusion > ZM >> RoS >>>> Metroid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prime

 

[C4Lukins]

3D is fine by me, but it should have never gone FPS. We have seen 3D shooting and platforming done well from the third person perspective, and they could have done that and kept the original Metroid feel. Metroid Prime is fine for what it is, but it certainly feels nothing like the Metroid of old. I would appreciate the series a lot more if we had a true console Metroid after Super Metroid to play.

That being said I would still prefer a 2D console Metroid over anything else. This and Castlevania have been my biggest disappointment in recent years because the best in the series have been limited to the power of handhelds.

 

[OokieSpookie]

I agree with him.
Prime 3 is a great game, but it (at least to me) is not "Metroid" to me.

Edit: If Nintendo wanted a core shooter for its stable they should have created a new IP for it or at least run it as a side series.

 

[DemonSwordsman]

hes right. The primes games are some of the worst boring games i have ever played.

 

[rollingstart]

Fusion was criminally underrated by so many purists. It had lots of interesting and new stuff, and was a whole lot of fun.

was Fusion was underrated, it still is nowhere near as good as Zero Mission or Super.

Zero Mission took the new and interesting parts and became a better game all together.

 

[Ranger X]

The only thing lacking and that would totally shit on both Metroid 2D and 3D would be a third person 3D Metroid.
Can't wait for this dream to (not) happen!

 

[dkeane]

He's insane. 3D Metroid makes the Metroid universe feel so much more immersive.

 

[GamerSoul]

I'd rather a 3D experience than nothing at all, who knows how much longer Metroid would have been on the back burner if they didn't come up with a solid idea. It was a bold move by Nintendo and it worked out better than most expected.
Yeah, a 2D Metroid would be sweet, but i'm not disowning the Prime Series just because some thought it wasn't "Metroid" enough.

 

[Draft]

3D platforming > 2D platforming?

You must be joking.

Does it look like I'm joking? Damn son I fucking busted nut the first time I realized I was platforming, in a first person game, and it felt right. I wasn't missing jumps because the movement speed was all cracked out or slippery like in first person shooters and rpgs.

Game is a damn revelation. It stands alongside RE4 as the only genuine reasons to own a Gamecube.

 

[titiklabingapat]

The only thing Super holds over Prime are an excellent end game (the whole Metroid vs. Mother Brain, the escape sequence, the stupid animals escaping with you) and arguably the sound track. Otherwise prime stomps it. STOMPS IT.

3D platforming > 2D platforming
3D morph balling > 2D morph balling
Having to switch weapons > uber weapon

FACT: Exploring an alien world with that banging ass visor interface is so much more gratifying than moving a little cartoon around on the screen.

Just embrace the truth. Metroid Prime is right up there with Mario 64. It took a game that was great as 2D, and made it better as 3D.

All hail.

Add in the superb waggle(for 3...,Metroid Prime and Echoes Wiimake please!) and I don't even think it's a contest.

 

[ZealousD]

what the hell is wrong with you people man? you all bitch when the Wii does not have HD yet Metroid should have stayed 2D? Sheeesh

GAF is not a collective.

 

[Crushed]

Absolutely not. Metroid Prime in 3D doesn´t arrive to the level of mastery, level design and other values achieved by Super Metroid in 2D.

I agree. Super Metroid's amount of "Mastery" is quite superb, each pixel and line of code seemingly hand-crafted by an Italian artisan in a rustic villa.

Furthermore, tests of the highest degree of scientific rigor show that Super Metroid has undeniable levels of "Values."

 

[papercut]

There are not going to be any more 2D console Metroids. The sooner you people accept it, the better. The Prime games are excellent, and had they not been made you would not have seen a 2D console game anyway. Christ.

 

[Belfast]

N'Gai even concedes the art direction, which I'm not so sure about.

There is a certain weathered beauty to the locales, but they often feel too cluttered for their own good. Sometimes it's hard to pick out where you need to go or where a platform is because it gets lost in the jungle of other things littering the screen. I've spent a lot of time wandering about aimlessly and backtracking for no reason just to find out that I missed a little hidey-hole somewhere.

It can be overcome, but it's still very, very flawed. Like N'Gai, I've always had a tough time creating a mental map of any given area because of this and the horrible map screen. Never had that problem in the 2d versions.

Also, for as much inherent spectacle as there might be in the environments, generic enemy and NPC designs often bring it down. All of the other "Hunters" and Space Federation people look like they've just come straight off a page of Tek Jansen.

 

[Lostconfused]

So basically N'gai finds backtracking too difficult?

 

[ZealousD]

Game is a damn revelation. It stands alongside RE4 as the only genuine reasons to own a Gamecube.

Hold up, I don't see F-Zero GX mentioned.

 

[SantaC]

I am torn about his statement. Metroid Prime 1 remains as one of the best atmospheric 3D games of all time. The level design in that game is still unmatched.

However, they should have just made that game and skipped the Prime sequels.

 

[teruterubozu]

N'Gai doesn't need to make statements like these to foster his hardcore cred.
Or does he?

 

[titiklabingapat]

I agree with him.
Prime 3 is a great game, but it (at least to me) is not "Metroid" to me.

Edit: If Nintendo wanted a core shooter for its stable they should have created a new IP for it or at least run it as a side series.

Prime is a side series

 

[Mar]

N'Gai is my new hero.

 

[sphinx]

Hey guys! I can be controversial too!!!

o.k here I go

" Resident evil 4 should have never existed, it turned a survival horror franchise into a mindless shooter. FUCK Resident Evil 4. "

how about that?

:lol

 

[Pimpwerx]

<3 <3 N'Gai. I totally take back all those bad things I said about him.



Oh, me me!

Super > Fusion > ZM >> RoS >>>> Metroid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prime

LOL! I agree with jarrod in a Nintendo thread. *high-five* I guess this makes up for your phantom defense of Mash Brothers. PEACE.

 

[Civil]

He wrote a lot of words, but that doesn't mean he's right. But he can say what he likes, it's his blog.

I am surprised that he's only been gaming since 1999. Seems like not so much experience for someone who makes so much noise.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The Prime series' brilliant use of the Morphball in 3D alone justified Metroid in 3D form.

 

[madara]

As good as MP series did I dont think it can change the fact that fair percentage ponder and long for a really good console 2D Metroid.

 

[Tanukid]

Who is N'Gai Croal and what has he done lately?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I completely disagree. We're getting the best of both worlds with Concurrent 2D Metroids and 3D Metroids. And considering Nintendo all but forgot about Metroid for 10 years i'm glad a 3D version was made.

 

[chase]

September is stupid month confirmed.

What the hell is going on? It's like people say idiotic things on purpose.

 

[Crushed]

Eh, thinking back, you guys are right about Super Metroid having a distinct superiority over the GBA games; but in my opinion it's only distinct enough to discern, not nearly some huge gulf.