revolverjgw
Member
2D is passe, I don't want another regurgitated 2D Metroid. I don't it want it becoming Castlevania. Put all your resources into pushing the series forward, not backward.
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N'Gai Croal: "Metroid should never have been made 3D"
- Thread starter Capndrake
- Start date
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Stormbringer said:
The fuck you talking about? Have you played the series?
Dark Samus IS Metroid Prime.
Huh? I own this game. It doesn't matter what system you put it on, it sucks. I'm opposed to console FPSes in general, but I've played a large number of great ones despite the hideous interface. The first, oddly enough, was a Nintendo/Rare IP, Goldeneye. That was the first console FPS I fell in love with. And the N64 controller was complete garbage. But despite that, Goldeneye still controls and performs like a dream compared to Prime.Joe Molotov said:
There is nothing appealing about Prime. The action is pedestrian AT BEST. The exploration was interesting until you had to run back through one empty room after another just to progress in the game. The difficulty...there was none. The controls are...ugh. I want to shoot Miyamoto in the face for forcing this shitty button layout on us. There is so much bad about Prime compared to Halo, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Killzone (never played it, but it can't be worse than Prime...seriously), plus all the PC ports. I would list more, but I do my best to steer clear of console FPSes.
Now, I tell you I hate console FPSes for the interface, right? Yet despite that, I can heap endless praise on those titles I listed, and I can make a laundry list of "average-to-middling" PC games that eat Prime's lunch. If you haven't had a chance to play a better game on a better platform, you have my sympathy. However, I have, and I will not make excuses for this game. I find it almost insulting to see people defend this franchise, but then I understand where the stigma of the Cube being for kids comes from. The shock and awe the original title left me in when I was a kid has left a permanent impression on what a Metroid game should look and play like. Prime is no more Metroid than Sunshine is Mario. But I shouldn't be surprised since people defend that awful game too. But to its credit, I was able to finish the Sunshine collectathon completely. Prime will join Eternal Darkness and Viewtiful Joe as the only Cube games I will never finish. No loss. PEACE.
revolverjgw said:
Oh please? And how do you know they have done everything that can techwise with it? Hell 3D is so passe, I dont want another regurgitated 3D game. I want hologram Metriod! :lol
If they have resources to Milk alot lame Mario and other Mascot spin off games, they can easily give a high res 2D console Metriod a go and see how it does. Nothing ass backwards about playing a fun game.
If I could go back in time and pick Nintendo franchises to stay in 2D with all the hindsight and knowledge of the modern 3D games, Zelda and (especially) Mario would easily come first--Metroid's the only one that converted and stayed mostly intact.
But it's true that 2D would still be preferred; it makes for a tighter and faster experience. Replaying a Prime game feels unbelievably slow compared to Super Metroid or Zero Mission.
But it's true that 2D would still be preferred; it makes for a tighter and faster experience. Replaying a Prime game feels unbelievably slow compared to Super Metroid or Zero Mission.
Nice response, pretty much exactly what I was thinking. You lose some (sometimes too much) and gain some when moving between 2D and 3D, it's all about keeping as much as the essence intact and enhancing it. The only sad thing is that 2D gaming is struggling to survive.stephentotilo said:
Hellraizah
Member
I completely agree with N'Gai.
Next up, he should write about how Fire Emblem is a better franchise than Zelda and Nintendo should push the hell out of it.
Next up, he should write about how Fire Emblem is a better franchise than Zelda and Nintendo should push the hell out of it.
fronn said:
Exactly! As long as they dont use something like polys in DS game. Actually there is no reason why this fanbase should be denied a full out console version as well. Retro did there job, they need to focus on something new for abit so its perfect time for Nintendo to try something different and go back to basics and see what new things they can add in meantime. Wet the palette so to speak.
Stormbringer
Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
This, sir, is a mystery.
Great Rumbler
Member
I love Metroid Prime 1-3 and I love Super Metroid.
What's wrong with me, GAF?
What's wrong with me, GAF?
Closer as in "we're still seeing the game from a similar perspective and less things are changed", yes. Closer as in a spiritual successor that captures the feel but innovates on gameplay? No. Metroid Prime is the best 2D to 3D conversion of any game series, and a pinnacle of exploratory gaming.jarrod said:Come on now, Zelda got it far closer than Retroid. Granted it was a simpler transition, but that's pretty much undeniable.
And screw 3D Metroid generally... I just want Metroid 5 on DS.
TheGreatDave
Banned
I don't come close to enjoying Metroid in 3D as much as I do in 2D. I really don't think this is an either/or situation though. Metroid was never going to exist as a 2D game on Gamecube. While you may not like it as much in 3D, it's an evolution that couldn't be ignored. As long as we keep getting 2D games on handhelds there's no problem.
PataHikari
Banned
Pimpwerx said:
All you've done is rant and rave about how "CONSOLE FPS SUX!!!111"
There's nothing wrong with MP's controls you twit.
Just because they're not the the all mighty Keyboard and Mouse scheme doesn't make them bad. The Metroid Primes are not designed like those sorts of games you moron.
Someday, when most of the gaming world has moved on to holograms or VR, there will still be people whining about how some series should have stayed 2D.
As if Metroid, a series about exploring alien worlds and heavily dependent on atmosphere, can somehow only be done in 2D.
As if Yokoi said, "Hey, I think that 2D will be the best format for this game. Let's do 2D!" He didn't have much of a choice. There's absolutely no reason why it should stay 2D other than to appease the people who want more of the same.
As if Metroid, a series about exploring alien worlds and heavily dependent on atmosphere, can somehow only be done in 2D.
As if Yokoi said, "Hey, I think that 2D will be the best format for this game. Let's do 2D!" He didn't have much of a choice. There's absolutely no reason why it should stay 2D other than to appease the people who want more of the same.
I'm a huge FPS fan and I play them mostly on PC, since that's the best way to play so much so that it may as well be the only way to play FPS. I'm also a huge Metroid fan (it's probably my favorite series, and Super Metroid is the only console game I can think of that approaches any of the top-class PC games I consider the best I have ever played).
I've played Prime and Echoes and I'm playing Corruption right now, and I like them... but they feel almost nothing like Metroid games. Part of the problem is the combat (although Corruption, so far, does a lot better job of this) because enemies take too long to kill most of the time, and combat is the main focus of a lot of the trap areas instead of a platforming hazard or race against time. They're a good console fps series, even with the lock-on and scaled back focus on shooting compared to the Halols out there, but it wasn't until Corruption that I think the series really nailed the controls.
The Prime games' biggest flaws in terms of Metroid design are combat (generally it takes too long to kill most of the enemies, while in real Metroid you can blast through them easily in a few shots, even as you get further into the games) and exploration. The actual sense of exploration, and art design are great. But backtracking is a pain in the ass. Part of it is a lot of the morph ball puzzles/other stuff like that which are fun to do once have to be repeated each time you need to backtrack through an area. In a 2d Metroid, puzzles/challenges like that are generally bypassed after you solve them the first time. This isn't always true with the Prime games, but it's true for the majority of the puzzles. So it makes backtracking feel more tedious/repetitive than it should. You shouldn't need to go through a morph ball maze every time you have to reach a room, or else it gets annoying instead of feeling cool like it does the first time you go through those areas. I'm not saying they need to put teleporters at the start of a level to take you to the last room you visited or anything like that, but look at Super Metroid, Fusion or Zero Mission. The puzzles/areas in those games are something you can bypass easily later in the game if/when you have to return to one of those areas. Prime and Echoes are especially guilty of the slow backtracking/bad pacing, though. Prime because of all the stupid beam switching you have to do to unlock doors, and Echoes because of the insanely tedious, not-fun-at-all light/dark worlds.
I don't mean Retro's puzzles/challenges are bad, but the repetition really does make them annoying when you have to deal with them multiple times while backtracking through an area. Better overall level design would have added shortcuts that allow you to skip that stuff with upgrades you get later on, which also makes those puzzles fresh if you want to replay the game later.
The platforming is really good. The controls are really good (especially in Corruption). The music and graphics are awesome. But it really doesn't have a good progression in terms of feeling more powerful as the games go on. Like when I got the plasma beam in Corruption... aside from it being useful to solve some new puzzles, I haven't noticed a big increase in my firepower over the regular beam, which is pretty disappointing. I really feel like the Prime games and Retro were kind of done wrong: Retro made these really awesome sci-fi FPS games, but they could've been better if they were an original IP instead of being fit into the Metroid franchise (and, at that, in a way that's as easy to ignore canonically as possible). But on the other hand, they wouldn't have had the commercial success they did if Metroid's name wasn't slapped to it in order to create so much hype (hate at first, but hype when Prime turned out to not suck, even if it isn't a good Metroid game).
I do want to see another 2d Metroid sometime soon. I don't think Nintendo has to do it on the Wii or with a gigantic budget and HD sprites and all the other dumb shit people think the game needs. But they could (and should) do a huge 2d/2.5d Metroid. They have the talent for it with the Fusion/Zero Mission team, and it's seriously one of the most satisfying Nintendo series out there.
I've played Prime and Echoes and I'm playing Corruption right now, and I like them... but they feel almost nothing like Metroid games. Part of the problem is the combat (although Corruption, so far, does a lot better job of this) because enemies take too long to kill most of the time, and combat is the main focus of a lot of the trap areas instead of a platforming hazard or race against time. They're a good console fps series, even with the lock-on and scaled back focus on shooting compared to the Halols out there, but it wasn't until Corruption that I think the series really nailed the controls.
The Prime games' biggest flaws in terms of Metroid design are combat (generally it takes too long to kill most of the enemies, while in real Metroid you can blast through them easily in a few shots, even as you get further into the games) and exploration. The actual sense of exploration, and art design are great. But backtracking is a pain in the ass. Part of it is a lot of the morph ball puzzles/other stuff like that which are fun to do once have to be repeated each time you need to backtrack through an area. In a 2d Metroid, puzzles/challenges like that are generally bypassed after you solve them the first time. This isn't always true with the Prime games, but it's true for the majority of the puzzles. So it makes backtracking feel more tedious/repetitive than it should. You shouldn't need to go through a morph ball maze every time you have to reach a room, or else it gets annoying instead of feeling cool like it does the first time you go through those areas. I'm not saying they need to put teleporters at the start of a level to take you to the last room you visited or anything like that, but look at Super Metroid, Fusion or Zero Mission. The puzzles/areas in those games are something you can bypass easily later in the game if/when you have to return to one of those areas. Prime and Echoes are especially guilty of the slow backtracking/bad pacing, though. Prime because of all the stupid beam switching you have to do to unlock doors, and Echoes because of the insanely tedious, not-fun-at-all light/dark worlds.
I don't mean Retro's puzzles/challenges are bad, but the repetition really does make them annoying when you have to deal with them multiple times while backtracking through an area. Better overall level design would have added shortcuts that allow you to skip that stuff with upgrades you get later on, which also makes those puzzles fresh if you want to replay the game later.
The platforming is really good. The controls are really good (especially in Corruption). The music and graphics are awesome. But it really doesn't have a good progression in terms of feeling more powerful as the games go on. Like when I got the plasma beam in Corruption... aside from it being useful to solve some new puzzles, I haven't noticed a big increase in my firepower over the regular beam, which is pretty disappointing. I really feel like the Prime games and Retro were kind of done wrong: Retro made these really awesome sci-fi FPS games, but they could've been better if they were an original IP instead of being fit into the Metroid franchise (and, at that, in a way that's as easy to ignore canonically as possible). But on the other hand, they wouldn't have had the commercial success they did if Metroid's name wasn't slapped to it in order to create so much hype (hate at first, but hype when Prime turned out to not suck, even if it isn't a good Metroid game).
I do want to see another 2d Metroid sometime soon. I don't think Nintendo has to do it on the Wii or with a gigantic budget and HD sprites and all the other dumb shit people think the game needs. But they could (and should) do a huge 2d/2.5d Metroid. They have the talent for it with the Fusion/Zero Mission team, and it's seriously one of the most satisfying Nintendo series out there.
PataHikari
Banned
/thread.Draft said:
PataHikari
Banned
And yet we still lose.Ristamar said:
sp0rsk said:
Oh come on, Prime 3 was more Prime. You can say that any 2D Metroid would just be more Metroid. That's not what I'm talking about here.
Anyway, obviously you can have both. I'm addressing the "Metroid should have stayed 2D crowd."
Personally, I'd rather them just try more things with 3D Metroid. I think that they fleshed out the 2D gameplay as much as they could, and Prime fleshed out the Prime formula. I don't care whether Nintendo makes the next console game 1st or 3rd person, I just want the game design to change up, which is easier to do with a 3D game. Much like I want the next Zelda game to try something other than the LTTP/OoT approach.
â Narayan
Member
Small ones, anyway. But, yes, he has balls, nonetheless.Akia said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
Croal is only five years too late.
Smiles and Cries
Member
I hate this thread! is there a way to block a thread?
Its just so damn annoying to see a bunch of geeks feel so empowered enough to tell us what direction a beloved franchise should have went.
PRIME does not equal METROID
They called PRIME for a reason there should have been room made for it in your achy-geeky hearts along with your beloved 2D Metroid!
Why can't PRIME 3D be acknowledged on its own damn merits without trying to compare it to the 2D classics? BITCH BITCH BITCH, shame on you so called gamers seriously WTF?! The nostalgic bullshit leaves no room for creativity and no room for advancements.
Nintendo provides you with enough FAN SERVICE so damn STFU!
I would hate to be an artist or programmer working on this PRIME series for years of my life, doing my best at it and having a bunch of nostalgic loons tear my shit down because it does not fit their image of "The" holy franchise. You can't go back to the 80's bitches!
Not being able to get into PRIME is your personal failure as a gamer not PRIME's as a Metroid Game. Your personal nostalgic preferences does not make PRIME shit all of the sudden.
Thus this line of crap does not merit discussion!
Seriously you people PISS ME OFF!
Its just so damn annoying to see a bunch of geeks feel so empowered enough to tell us what direction a beloved franchise should have went.
PRIME does not equal METROID
They called PRIME for a reason there should have been room made for it in your achy-geeky hearts along with your beloved 2D Metroid!
Why can't PRIME 3D be acknowledged on its own damn merits without trying to compare it to the 2D classics? BITCH BITCH BITCH, shame on you so called gamers seriously WTF?! The nostalgic bullshit leaves no room for creativity and no room for advancements.
Nintendo provides you with enough FAN SERVICE so damn STFU!
I would hate to be an artist or programmer working on this PRIME series for years of my life, doing my best at it and having a bunch of nostalgic loons tear my shit down because it does not fit their image of "The" holy franchise. You can't go back to the 80's bitches!
Not being able to get into PRIME is your personal failure as a gamer not PRIME's as a Metroid Game. Your personal nostalgic preferences does not make PRIME shit all of the sudden.
Thus this line of crap does not merit discussion!
Seriously you people PISS ME OFF!
Dragona Akehi
Retired
jarrod said:
Yes, and it got canned in 2001, after Prime was considered a "success", just like Dread was canned after Prime Hunters did not bomb.
Femmeworth
Banned
Nothing, you have awesome taste.Great Rumbler said:I love Metroid Prime 1-3 and I love Super Metroid.
What's wrong with me, GAF?